Vaccine Requirement Extended

[njhorseman]

12 minutes ago, johnoj said:

Thanks for posting.  Good information that looks more updated than what I was looking at even just weeks ago.  But I'm seeing October or later now on some articles too.  Looks like Moderna is the furthest away from under 12 since they are still pending even for 16.  Pfizer could be close if they can submit by October.  Even then it could be months, and even then once again we're dealing with EU not full FDA.  It will be interesting to see the timing since it took about 5 months after the vaccines were introduced to give just one of them the OK for 12+.  I'll try and find that article I read back in the June timeframe that questioned the submission and trials and whether or not a vaccine might ever be approved for 12 and under.

Pfizer submitted its application for vaccine approval for 12-18 year-olds on April 9 and received EUA on May 10, so if the data are as strong for younger children it's not unreasonable to expect approval in late October or early November if their application to the FDA is submitted in late September.

 

You can't get full approval without many additional months of experience with the vaccine so EUA is all that's possible in that short timeframe.  I don't see anyone in the legitimate scientific or medical communities who is expressing any concern about "only" having EUA because the study results have been so clear.

[ChiefMateJRK]

Not directly NCL, but interesting vaccine related thread:

 

Ovation Turned Away Half a Dozen Unvaccinated Cruisers in Seattle - Royal Caribbean International - Cruise Critic Community

 

With the NCL's extension of their requirement, could we be seeing this again in November or December? (that's obviously a rhetorical question)

[aubreyc1988]

6 minutes ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Not directly NCL, but interesting vaccine related thread:

 

Ovation Turned Away Half a Dozen Unvaccinated Cruisers in Seattle - Royal Caribbean International - Cruise Critic Community

 

With the NCL's extension of their requirement, could we be seeing this again in November or December? (that's obviously a rhetorical question)

Answering your rhetorical question, YES OF COURSE

 

People are loathe to do their own research and take control of their own destiny, instead willing to wing it and whine at the port. 

[johnoj]

37 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

Pfizer submitted its application for vaccine approval for 12-18 year-olds on April 9 and received EUA on May 10, so if the data are as strong for younger children it's not unreasonable to expect approval in late October or early November if their application to the FDA is submitted in late September.

 

You can't get full approval without many additional months of experience with the vaccine so EUA is all that's possible in that short timeframe.  I don't see anyone in the legitimate scientific or medical communities who is expressing any concern about "only" having EUA because the study results have been so clear.

Agreed.  The efficacy of these vaccines is pretty extraordinary.  Although I doubt the vaccine hesitancy in this group is about efficacy and is more about unknown long term side effects.  I'm still looking for that article that expressed some hesitation on when/if due to the FDA requirement of significantly more post vaccine follow up data and the myocarditis issues.

[SeaShark]

4 hours ago, MsTabbyKats said:

The e-mail clearly states unvaccinated children will not be allowed on the cruise.  If people can't take self-responsibility for their situation (and I agree...they'll show up at the port with "that dumb look" on their faces) it's their problem.

 

Yeah, but if people took responsibility, Cruise Critic would look like a ghost town.

 

You'd think NCL would simply cancel reservations that contain children who can't be vaccinated as guests.

Edited August 18, 2021 by SeaShark

[bstel]

dang, we sail in January, hope they extend past Dec 31.

[johnoj]

4 minutes ago, bstel said:

dang, we sail in January, hope they extend past Dec 31.

Didn't you book your cruise knowing that the original date was Oct 31 for 100% vaccination?  Why would you care now?

[Inflatable_Catfish]

8 minutes ago, johnoj said:

Agreed.  The efficacy of these vaccines is pretty extraordinary.  Although I doubt the vaccine hesitancy in this group is about efficacy and is more about unknown long term side effects.  I'm still looking for that article that expressed some hesitation on when/if due to the FDA requirement of significantly more post vaccine follow up data and the myocarditis issues.

 

There is a group that is never talked about that has already had Covid and see no need to take a vaccine that may have unknown effects. My family is going on 8 months now walking around with antibodies. I was recently tested and showed IGG (what helps with symptoms if you get it) and IGA (what blocks the virus from imbedding in your throat area). the vaccines help with IGG but not IGA,  that's why the vaccinated can get it and spread it. The cruise lines should be asking for a present antibodies test and not vaccination status.

[johnoj]

1 minute ago, Inflatable_Catfish said:

 

There is a group that is never talked about that has already had Covid and see no need to take a vaccine that may have unknown effects. My family is going on 8 months now walking around with antibodies. I was recently tested and showed IGG (what helps with symptoms if you get it) and IGA (what blocks the virus from imbedding in your throat area). the vaccines help with IGG but not IGA,  that's why the vaccinated can get it and spread it. The cruise lines should be asking for a present antibodies test and not vaccination status.

Totally agree.  Many countries in Europe have vaccination passport programs that allow exactly what you propose - proven antibodies from covid exposure.

[johnoj]

17 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

 

Yeah, but if people took responsibility, Cruise Critic would look like a ghost town.

 

You'd think NCL would simply cancel reservations that contain children who can't be vaccinated as guests.

Agreed.  NCL needs to be over communicating here and making options very clear with anyone who has children under 12 or other non-vaccinated guests.  I'm all about personal responsibility, but it seems leaving families stranded at the pier might not be a good thing when it can be easily solved with extra communication.  I for one would be on the phone today if I had a cruise before 12/31.

[njhorseman]

51 minutes ago, johnoj said:

Agreed.  The efficacy of these vaccines is pretty extraordinary.  Although I doubt the vaccine hesitancy in this group is about efficacy and is more about unknown long term side effects.  I'm still looking for that article that expressed some hesitation on when/if due to the FDA requirement of significantly more post vaccine follow up data and the myocarditis issues.

Here are several articles on that issue:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/26/fda-asks-pfizer-moderna-test-their-vaccines-more-children-under-12-help-rule-out-safety-issues/

 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/why-kids-are-still-waiting-for-their-covid-19-vaccines

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/26/us/politics/fda-covid-vaccine-trials-children.html

 

 

 

 

[ChiefMateJRK]

11 minutes ago, disneykins said:

We were ready to book 2 cruises for Feb. 2022, but can't get a booster until Feb 2022 so we have to put off booking yet again.

No, you don't.  

[johnoj]

23 minutes ago, disneykins said:

Now that it is recommended that we get a booster shot, what will NCL consider "fully vaccinated"?       2 shots or 2 shots plus a booster. If we can't get a booster until 8 months after our second shot, won't that put a stop to upcoming cruises? Or will NCL still accept the 2 shots as enough? Sounds like another round of NCL vs CDC vs Florida governor coming up. We were ready to book 2 cruises for Feb. 2022, but can't get a booster until Feb 2022 so we have to put off booking yet again.

Tony

Let's hope NCL and any other business, country, etc. sticks with 2 shots or 1 shot J&J.  Could you imagine the chaos of trying to figure out whether or not you could board based on some type of calculation of when you go get your booster, how long before your trip would be allowed to not have one, boosters for what age and what condition, what happens to those who took J&J and have no booster...the list goes on and on.  If they think some folks are left on the pier now, wait until they try and implement that requirement.  Yikes.

[coffeebean]

6 hours ago, MsTabbyKats said:

The e-mail clearly states unvaccinated children will not be allowed on the cruise.  If people can't take self-responsibility for their situation (and I agree...they'll show up at the port with "that dumb look" on their faces) it's their problem.

I agree. What is it about "all guests" would not be understood? The wording is very specific and should not be confusing at all.

[coffeebean]

5 hours ago, johnoj said:

That's why you test and only board with negative results.  Just like Carnival, Royal, DCL and the list goes on.  I have no problem with NCL doing what they think is best for their company, but there really isn't any 'science' to prove it's any safer.

Are NCL ships sailing with less safety protocols, primarily no masking or social distancing indoors? Isn't that one of the reasons for the 100% vaccinated cruises; to provide their passengers a cruise experience which is more normal and enjoyable?

[johnoj]

2 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

Are NCL ships sailing with less safety protocols, primarily no masking or social distancing indoors? Isn't that one of the reasons for the 100% vaccinated cruises; to provide their passengers a cruise experience which is more normal and enjoyable?

Carnival and RCL are not social distancing, the buffets are open, etc.  Everyone is masking now, including NCL on some ships.  With breakthrough covid in vaccinated individuals, the best policy going forward will be testing and testing often in my opinion.  But I have no issues whatsoever with NCL requiring 100% vaccination or anyone who would prefer that.  I know for my family though we simply can't cruise with them if they continue that requirement past 12/31.  Which is a bummer since we really enjoy NCL and the Haven.

[coffeebean]

5 hours ago, aubreyc1988 said:

it's definitely safer having 100% vaccination onboard than 95%. Yes, vaccinated people can get covid and spread it, but if they are only spreading it to vaccinated people, the likelihood of breakthrough cases is less than if there is spread among unvaccinated guests. 

 

How much safer, no idea, but I would say most experts would agree that sailing 100% vaccination is safer than 95% 

I read that a couple of times and that surely does make a lot of sense. The fact that vaccinated people are not contagious as long as unvaccinated people also lends credence to NCL's policy of sailing 100% vaccinated cruises. Kudos to NCL!

[Named-Tawny]

7 hours ago, mrlevin said:

So much for holiday sailings with small kids; will be totally different at sea this Christmas.

It's entirely possible that they'll extend vaccine availability to younger children by then.

[aubreyc1988]

11 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

I read that a couple of times and that surely does make a lot of sense. The fact that vaccinated people are not contagious as long as unvaccinated people also lends credence to NCL's policy of sailing 100% vaccinated cruises. Kudos to NCL!

the real question is how long NCL can hold out without having their guests also wear masks indoors. 

[johnoj]

5 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

I read that a couple of times and that surely does make a lot of sense. The fact that vaccinated people are not contagious as long as unvaccinated people also lends credence to NCL's policy of sailing 100% vaccinated cruises. Kudos to NCL!

I agree.  Glad NCL is making the decision that makes sense for their business.  Many other cruise lines have decided to try something else.  Kudos to them too.  But saying 'How much safer, no idea' and then saying it's probably better is the reason why not every cruise line is going 100%.  Their experts have determined something else entirely, including the CDC which allows 95/5 via the CSO.  I'm not arguing one way is better or worse than another, just that there are clearly many views out there.  I'm unfortunately caught up on an NCL cruise in Jan with kids under 12 who are unlikely to be able to satisfy the requirements based on no fault of ours but their age.  A bit of a bummer but we'll move the money to something else if they push the dates past 12/31.

[PhillyTravelBug]

These responsible practices from NCL are definitely keeping this customer loyal to their brand. Kudos to them.

[JohnMenston]

That’s us out as we have a 2 year old on a cruise at the end of November. Just another nail in the coffin in respect of our experiences with NCL over the last few years. Will be spending our cash with P&O or Cunard from now on.

[Inflatable_Catfish]

5 minutes ago, JohnMenston said:

That’s us out as we have a 2 year old on a cruise at the end of November. Just another nail in the coffin in respect of our experiences with NCL over the last few years. Will be spending our cash with P&O or Cunard from now on.

Just submitted the form, they say 90 days to get your cash back. They've  had 4k  for 2 years, what's another 3 months lol. But honestly, what takes 90 days to do anymore?

 

[johnoj]

3 minutes ago, Inflatable_Catfish said:

Just submitted the form, they say 90 days to get your cash back. They've  had 4k  for 2 years, what's another 3 months lol. But honestly, what takes 90 days to do anymore?

 

Sorry to hear that.  You can bet they were inundated today with cancellations and it will only get worse for them.  It will be very interesting to look at the quarterly numbers out late this year from Carnival, DCL, RCL and NCL and compare.  

[davencl]

19 minutes ago, PhillyTravelBug said:

These responsible practices from NCL are definitely keeping this customer loyal to their brand. Kudos to them.

Me too.