Spending…. Card or cash?

[Charles4515]

2 hours ago, Catlover54 said:

The practical part, is that it is faster, so more stuff gets sold faster, more profits.  TAP can do that too.

Here is an article from today, about AMEX now going signature-free (and pin-free) even for big purchases  (unless the merchant requires it -- and gas stations in the SF Bay area still want zip codes, even for small purchases).

 

https://www.mybanktracker.com/credit-cards/faq/no-signature-credit-card-purchases-275769

 

As for security?  I don't think they'd be rolling this out for extension if they had had big problems with the "less than $50, no signature required" rule AMEX had for several years. It is not intuitive.

Companies also have more security measures today  -- they track your spending, alert you, and bug you more (especially AMEX), plus they indemnify you for non-authorized charges you can dispute (like cruise refunds you aren't getting :).  AMEX bugs me so much that since Covid, I cannot even get them to send my bill to my rural P.O. Box, as we have no door delivery (I like paper to back up online, for various reasons).  They want a physical house address but if I give it to them, they send it to the house, where nothing will be delivered and it is returned to sender.  Multiple calls to clarify the situation have been to no avail, so every month they threaten to cancel my platinum card and I call them again.

 

The last few posts are definitely thread drift. 🙂

 

Thank you for posting the link. It supports what I posted. 

 

PIN is never going to be used in the US and we are going in the other direction. Signatures not required for most transactions. 

 

As for AMEX I go paperless with them and all my credit cards because in my opinion it is more secure not to get a paper bill. When I was getting paper statements I had to waste a lot of time shredding.

[Charles4515]

29 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

I would not pay for a chip & pin card.  I mentioned it because you seem to be overly concerned about traveling without one.  

The basic no fee Jet Blue card is Chip and they will give you a PIN.  It also has no foreign transaction fee. I got that for back up in case I needed a chip and pin card in Europe. Never needed to use it though. 

[wowzz]

The maximum spend using a contactless card in the UK has recently been increased to £100 (say $140).  More than this amount you will need a PIN. 

And, as a security measure, after a certain number of contactless payments, you will be asked to input your PIN, regardless of the value of the transaction. 

[Charles4515]

32 minutes ago, wowzz said:

The maximum spend using a contactless card in the UK has recently been increased to £100 (say $140).  More than this amount you will need a PIN. 

And, as a security measure, after a certain number of contactless payments, you will be asked to input your PIN, regardless of the value of the transaction. 

There is no limit in the USA. Some stores require a signature for large transactions. There is no limit on number of payments. 

[ldubs]

11 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

The basic no fee Jet Blue card is Chip and they will give you a PIN.  It also has no foreign transaction fee. I got that for back up in case I needed a chip and pin card in Europe. Never needed to use it though. 

 

Thanks.  In my actual experience, the requirement for a Chip&pin in Europe is simply not a big deal.  But, I agree it is good to have a back-up.  We do too.   

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

The maximum spend using a contactless card in the UK has recently been increased to £100 (say $140).  More than this amount you will need a PIN. 

And, as a security measure, after a certain number of contactless payments, you will be asked to input your PIN, regardless of the value of the transaction. 

 

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

There is no limit in the USA. Some stores require a signature for large transactions. There is no limit on number of payments. 

 

Good to know.  I never thought about there being a limit when I use a tap-to-pay card.  But then I don't think I've made any huge purchases that way either.   

[ilikeanswers]

27 minutes ago, ldubs said:

Thanks.  In my actual experience, the requirement for a Chip&pin in Europe is simply not a big deal.  But, I agree it is good to have a back-up.  We do too.   

 

I find it depends on the region. In the Baltics, Iberia and France I hardly ever used pin but in Scandinavia and the Balkans nearly everywhere it was required.

[ldubs]

14 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I find it depends on the region. In the Baltics, Iberia and France I hardly ever used pin but in Scandinavia and the Balkans nearly everywhere it was required.

 

Thanks.  That is good to know.   I would except Copenhagen.  Been there several times but no large purchases were made on the card.  Maybe they relax things in tourist areas, IDK.    We also found Prague and Budapest to be pretty much wide open when it came to needing a pin.  

[iancal]

Pay for a PIN card?? 

 

Why....the reason it is there is to protect the card issuer from fraud. 

 

Never heard of that.  When PIN chips were introduced in Canada years ago our credit card issuers simply sent us new cards.   We had no choice in the matter.   Same for our bank convenience/debit cards.

 

Just rec'd our new Amex cards last week.   They are chip and pin...as were the last ones and the ones before that. 

 

One nice thing about the new cards we have been getting....the numbers are not raised so they are much easier to read after a few months in our wallet.

Edited November 30, 2021 by iancal

[Charles4515]

1 minute ago, iancal said:

Pay for a PIN card?? 

 

Why....the reason it is there is to protect the card issuer from fraud. 

 

Never heard of that.  When PIN chips were introduced in Canada years ago our credit card issuers simply sent us new cards.   We had no choice in the matter.   Same for our bank convenience/debit cards.

 

Just rec'd our new Amex cards last week.   They are chip and pin.

 

You are in Canada. In the USA most of the cards that have a pin option are cards that have a fee. Most non -fee cards won't set up a pin. Different countries have different laws and liabilities. We have zero liability. Also merchants would rather have speed. Entering a pin slows down transactions. We also are starting to have stores where you don't have to do anything. You scan your phone when you enter and cameras record what you walk out with as your purchase.

 

 We are getting new cards.issued too The new cards have NFC for tap.. No PIN. Tap is fast. Although I usually use Apple Pay tap on my Apple Watch, i only carry one credit  card in my wallet to use at restaurants and gas stations, I have tested my Tap credit cards and they work at the same terminals, the same way, and they are much faster and easier than inserting a card. 

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

Thanks.  That is good to know.   I would except Copenhagen.  Been there several times but no large purchases were made on the card.  Maybe they relax things in tourist areas, IDK.    We also found Prague and Budapest to be pretty much wide open when it came to needing a pin.  

 

Outside of Copenhagen you would be hard pressed to use a CC anywhere in Denmark😂. They have some weird situation when it comes to CCs so when you leave the internationally visited tourist sites I found most businesses just default to not accepting cards from outside of Denmark. It is the one European country where I had to rely on cash. 

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Outside of Copenhagen you would be hard pressed to use a CC anywhere in Denmark😂. They have some weird situation when it comes to CCs so when you leave the internationally visited tourist sites I found most businesses just default to not accepting cards from outside of Denmark. It is the one European country where I had to rely on cash. 

 

Thanks!  👍👍👍

[slidergirl]

Let me add something about the chip & PIN.  There are the PINs that you set yourself, aka a soft PIN.  These are the ones that work in ATMs in the US.  You still have a chip on the card, but most places in the US you'll get asked for a sig or for nothing.   There is a PIN that the CC company puts on the card, aka a hard PIN.  This is the one that you get asked for at those unmanned kiosks, hotels that have switched to the new CC device (like the St. Regis Deer Valley).  Your soft PIN won't work, at least my experience is that.  

 

That Jet Blue CC sounds like it has the hard PIN.  

[navybankerteacher]

17 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

…What I said is having a chip&pin card is far from essential for travel in Europe.  I base that on personal experiences which I feel is better than what I read on the internet.  

     

I suspect that with more travel you will find greater need for chip and PIN.

[rkacruiser]

5 hours ago, ldubs said:

I agree it is good to have a back-up.  We do too

 

I do too, two types:  Cash and Traveler's Checks.  Not as easy to do anymore as it once was, but I have been successful in getting Traveler's Checks cashed when I needed some additional cash.  

 

This has been an interesting discussion; I have learned somethings that I didn't know and never considered.  

[iancal]

Pre covid, when we used our Canadian cards at a self serv gas stations we would be asked for our zip.  

 

Our postal codes are six didgits- three alfa and three numeric .   So, we would input the three numbers in the order that they appear on the card, followed by two zeros to make up the 5 numbers of a zip code.

 

Worked most of the time...saved us going into the shop.

[wowzz]

5 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Outside of Copenhagen you would be hard pressed to use a CC anywhere in Denmark😂. They have some weird situation when it comes to CCs so when you leave the internationally visited tourist sites I found most businesses just default to not accepting cards from outside of Denmark. It is the one European country where I had to rely on cash. 

Sorry, but I find that unbelievable, and totally not my experience.  For personal reasons I visited rural areas of Denmark 3 or 4 times  a year (pre-covid) and credit cards were accepted everywhere, as long as they were Visa or Mastercard. 

[ilikeanswers]

4 hours ago, wowzz said:

Sorry, but I find that unbelievable, and totally not my experience.  For personal reasons I visited rural areas of Denmark 3 or 4 times  a year (pre-covid) and credit cards were accepted everywhere, as long as they were Visa or Mastercard. 

 

After I posted I did wonder if things have changed🤔. My road trip around Denmark was about 7 years ago back then they would not take my card anywhere apart from Copenhagen and Frederiksborg Castle so we ended up taking out a lot of cash (for a European trip). It was quite a contrast when we went over to Sweden and everytime we showed cash they would get all flustered because they weren't use to dealing with it😂. Maybe the Swedish aversion to cash has rubbed off on the Danes😜.

[ilikeanswers]

7 hours ago, iancal said:

Pre covid, when we used our Canadian cards at a self serv gas stations we would be asked for our zip.  

 

Our postal codes are six didgits- three alfa and three numeric .   So, we would input the three numbers in the order that they appear on the card, followed by two zeros to make up the 5 numbers of a zip code.

 

Worked most of the time...saved us going into the shop.

 

That is interesting, if I am ever in USA again I'll see if that trick works with an Australian post code😃

[KBs mum]

American Express is not widely accepted in the UK, may be the case in other European countries. Their fees are charged to the retailer are far higher than those of other card issuers, and the machines need to be reconfigured to accept them. Could be why reports differ about cards being accepted somewhere. Some places accept debit cards but not credit cards, or vice versa. 

Signatures can be used instead of the pin, but it's a measure in place for those who may have difficulty remembering the number. Some retailers ask for ID, or only permit supervisors to do signature transactions, because of the high risk of theft. 

Also cheques aren't routinely accepted anywhere anymore, in the UK, we do bank transfers for amounts that may exceed limits set on cards. 

 

No way does my card leave my hand.  If I hand it to anyone I'm not covered for theft from it. The one I have now doesn't have the numbers on the front, so the person taking payment doesn't even get a glimpse of them when I put the card in the machine. The only numbers the till person can see are the last four of the long number which show up on the receipt. 

Also, even if I can be reimbursed for any theft, I don't need the hassle of the card being stopped and having to wait for the new one, or the account numbers having to be changed. 

 

I haven't touched cash since tipping the driver that took us to Dulles Airport in late 2019. I keep a bit of shrapnel in the car in case its needed for parking, but haven't needed it since buying the car several years ago. 

 

 

[Charles4515]

10 minutes ago, KBs mum said:

American Express is not widely accepted in the UK, may be the case in other European countries. ounts that may exceed limits set on cards. 

 

No way does my card leave my hand.  If I hand it to anyone I'm not covered for theft from it. The one I have now doesn't have the numbers on the front, so the person taking payment doesn't even get a glimpse of them when I put the card in the machine. The only numbers the till person can see are the last four of the long number which show up on the receipt. 

Also, even if I can be reimbursed for any theft, I don't need the hassle of the card being stopped and having to wait for the new one, or the account numbers having to be changed. 

 

I haven't touched cash since tipping the driver that took us to Dulles Airport in late 2019. I keep a bit of shrapnel in the car in case its needed for parking, but haven't needed it since buying the car several years ago. 

 

 

 

I was able to use AMEX at the London Eye. AMEX did send me an email link to verify it was me using the card. Glad I had an cell travel pass to reply. 

 

In the US you will let them take yor card at restaurants with table service or else you will pay with cash. Restaurants don't have portable  terminals to bring to tables. We don't care if they take our cards as our US issued cards have zero liability.

 

Soon merchants will be able to use regular mobile phones, not modified phones like at the Apple store as portable tap terminals. It remains to be seen whether restaurants will take charges at tables when that happens. We have our culture of tipping and the tip is added after the food and tax transaction. I would rather they did take our cards at the table like in Europe but tradition is an obsticle and there is no demand for it. 

 

I don't need change for parking. There are either kiosks or parking apps. 

[iancal]

We have used an ATM twice since March 20. $200 and $100.  Still have the latter $100 cash withdrawal left.  We could have just as easily not used any of it.

 

It has all been on line purchases or tap and go.  We gas up at Costco, they are all tap and go on the pump terminal.

Edited December 1, 2021 by iancal

[KBs mum]

52 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

 

I was able to use AMEX at the London Eye. AMEX did send me an email link to verify it was me using the card. Glad I had an cell travel pass to reply. 

 

In the US you will let them take yor card at restaurants with table service or else you will pay with cash. Restaurants don't have portable  terminals to bring to tables. We don't care if they take our cards as our US issued cards have zero liability.

 

Soon merchants will be able to use regular mobile phones, not modified phones like at the Apple store as portable tap terminals. It remains to be seen whether restaurants will take charges at tables when that happens. We have our culture of tipping and the tip is added after the food and tax transaction. I would rather they did take our cards at the table like in Europe but tradition is an obsticle and there is no demand for it. 

 

I don't need change for parking. There are either kiosks or parking apps. 

We can use mobiles to take/make payments using QR codes on the screen, I don't know how widespread this is. Retailers on market stalls often have card devices that work via a mobile. 

 

If the restaurant/pub doesn't have a portable terminal then the customer takes the bill to the till to pay. 

 

By the way, in the UK if you want to tip a person, give them cash, or make sure it's itemised as a tip. That way they get to keep it on top of wages by law. The 'service charge' that may appear on the bill is optional, and may go to the business, not the person.

Don't feel awkward about tipping the person in cash and asking for the service charge to be removed. Also don't feel you have to tip at all, unless you think it deserved. 

[the penguins]

On 11/30/2021 at 9:07 PM, iancal said:

Pre covid, when we used our Canadian cards at a self serv gas stations we would be asked for our zip.  

 

Our postal codes are six didgits- three alfa and three numeric .   So, we would input the three numbers in the order that they appear on the card, followed by two zeros to make up the 5 numbers of a zip code.

 

Worked most of the time...saved us going into the shop.

No good for UK cards. Our post codes are a mix of 7 letters and numbers - only around 25 properties have the same code. You can mail to any address in the UK with just the property number and the post (zip) code

[iancal]

21 minutes ago, the penguins said:

No good for UK cards. Our post codes are a mix of 7 letters and numbers - only around 25 properties have the same code. You can mail to any address in the UK with just the property number and the post (zip) code

I am impressed with the UK postal system.

 

We had a cheque from TUI sent to our home in Canada from the UK.

 

Not unusual, in and of itself.  Only the address was incorrect.  It had the right street address, right city, correct postal code.  But the country addressed was GB.  

 

Mailed Oct. 20. Arrived Nov 1.

 

Very pleased that it found us because it was a cheque for GBP 764!

 

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by iancal