Oops! Apex in Key West Naval Problem Last Weekend

[SeaHunt]

Pull forward lol. Article shows:

 

"A Celebrity cruise ship that stopped in Key West over the weekend jutted out into a passageway used by the Navy. And the Naval Air Station Key West says the ship partially blocked the entrance to the Navy’s Truman Harbor.

 

By exceeding the boundary line, the 1,004-foot Celebrity Apex’s mooring at the privately run Pier B had a bigger fallout than your typical bad parking job in a South Beach garage.

 

“Any activity that restricts or prohibits vessel transit in or out of the Harbor impacts our defense mission capabilities there,” said Trice Denny, a spokeswoman for Naval Air Station Key West.

 

“The violation is that it’s past the boundaries of the submerged land lease in the deed and it juts out into the opening into Truman Harbor,” Denny said. “We need all that opening space to safely maneuver vessels in and out of the harbor.”

 

The Naval Air Station said it has drafted a notification of the violation to the Florida Department of Environmental Protection, which has a lease with the dock’s private owner, Pier B Development Corp., that allows cruise ships to dock.

 

The notice is working its way through the Navy’s administrative process.

 

“The next step is up to the state,” Denny said.

 

Representatives of the state Department of Environmental Protection did not respond to emailed messages on Wednesday seeking more information and comment."

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/cruise-ships-keep-coming-key-185223698.html

[cluso]

Then there is the Royal Caribbean ship that cruised into a restricted area last week and caused a Space-X launch to be scrubbed 30 seconds before launch.  Some Captains are going to be in trouble...

 

[Oceansaway17]

I saw the photo and if that is the case, then perhaps that area needs a better border or boundary.

 

did anyone at the port notice and ask them to move it immediately.

 

this case could go so many ways.   

[blueboro]

Didn't think X was going to Key West anymore.  On the March Reflection they replaced it with Bimini.

[D C]

4 hours ago, blueboro said:

Didn't think X was going to Key West anymore.  On the March Reflection they replaced it with Bimini.

Millennium, Constellation, and Apex all stopped in over the past week on consecutive days 🙂

[peanut head]

Maybe Bug Naked was taking the helm for practice drills on another ship😁

[smbt1]

22 hours ago, Oceansaway17 said:

I saw the photo and if that is the case, then perhaps that area needs a better border or boundary.

 

did anyone at the port notice and ask them to move it immediately.

 

this case could go so many ways.   

Limit to how far forward it can move before it intrudes on the Mallory square pier which is controlled by the City.

 

The Apex is 39 feet longer than the Millennium  or Constellation

Edited February 10, 2022 by smbt1

[Covepointcruiser]

No boundary is needed, look at the Naval Charts!   Seamanship 101.

[keesar]

On 2/9/2022 at 4:26 PM, cluso said:

Then there is the Royal Caribbean ship that cruised into a restricted area last week and caused a Space-X launch to be scrubbed 30 seconds before launch.  Some Captains are going to be in trouble...

 

 

Our ship attempted to dock at the wrong pier in San Juan.  Sometimes, you just wonder....

[D C]

This is just the whiny anti-cruise ship people at work, and appears to not be out of the ordinary.  Even the Google maps 3D view has a HAL ship over the same line by about the same amount. 

[smbt1]

21 minutes ago, D C said:

This is just the whiny anti-cruise ship people at work, and appears to not be out of the ordinary.  Even the Google maps 3D view has a HAL ship over the same line by about the same amount. 

The picture in the article shows the Celebrity ship further over the line.  If you look at the mooring points on the ship in this picture the line is just in line with the back mooring point.  With the Celebrity ship the mooring point at the rear of the ship is a good 20-30 feet over the line.

 

This is not the first complaint the Navy has had with ships at Pier B.  There was atleast one other prior to the shutdown.  The Navy held off on pushing the issue because ships were not coming into KW during the shutdown.  Now that they have restarted the Navy is letting them know that the limits will be enforced.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

On 2/10/2022 at 9:37 AM, blueboro said:

Didn't think X was going to Key West anymore.  On the March Reflection they replaced it with Bimini.

 

I didn't think so either (when our 2/26 Reflection sailing was shifted to Bimini). I'm not going to get off the ship there, whereas I would have in Key West (Hard Rock Cafe and then Mattheessen's for an excellent cookie!). You know, life's simple pleasures!

 

Tom

[miaminative0853]

Much ado about nothing. The navy hasnt had a true naval presence in KW in decades. In fact, it was never much of a base for ships. Naval Air Station Key West is no where near Truman Bay and, as it's name implies, it's an air base. In fact it is 4 or 5 miles east of downtown. I don't think any cruise ship is interfere with air operations. There is a Coast Guard presence there but I dont think it is in the same area as the cruise ships and certainly would not be bothered by the described "incursion".

 

This is just the anti-cruise ship locals throwing whatever they can at the fan.

 

Any way, IMHO, not the end of the world to skip this port call. Lots of places happy to welcome the ships.

[smbt1]

51 minutes ago, miaminative0853 said:

Much ado about nothing. The navy hasnt had a true naval presence in KW in decades. In fact, it was never much of a base for ships. Naval Air Station Key West is no where near Truman Bay and, as it's name implies, it's an air base. In fact it is 4 or 5 miles east of downtown. I don't think any cruise ship is interfere with air operations. There is a Coast Guard presence there but I dont think it is in the same area as the cruise ships and certainly would not be bothered by the described "incursion".

 

This is just the anti-cruise ship locals throwing whatever they can at the fan.

 

Any way, IMHO, not the end of the world to skip this port call. Lots of places happy to welcome the ships.

Actually the document was generated by the Navy, not protesters as the article indicated.  It appears that the Navy has a different view than yours

 

as the article states

 

“Any activity that restricts or prohibits vessel transit in or out of the Harbor impacts our defense mission capabilities there,” said Trice Denny, a spokeswoman for Naval Air Station Key West.

 

Gwen Filosa

Wed, February 9, 2022, 10:52 AM·5 min read

This was more than a monster truck trying to squeeze into a compact parking space.

A Celebrity cruise ship that stopped in Key West over the weekend jutted out into a passageway used by the U.S. Navy. And Naval Air Station Key West says the ship partially blocked the entrance to the Navy’s Truman Harbor.

By exceeding the boundary line, the 1,004-foot Celebrity Apex’s mooring at the privately run Pier B had a bigger fallout than your typical bad parking job in a South Beach garage.

“Any activity that restricts or prohibits vessel transit in or out of the Harbor impacts our defense mission capabilities there,” said Trice Denny, a spokeswoman for Naval Air Station Key West.

 

“The violation is that it’s past the boundaries of the submerged land lease in the deed and it juts out into the opening into Truman Harbor,” Denny said. “We need all that opening space to safely maneuver vessels in and out of the harbor.”

 

The Naval Air Station said it has drafted a notification of the violation to the Florida Department of Environmental Protection, which has a lease with the dock’s private owner, Pier B Development Corp., that allows cruise ships to dock.

 

The notice is working its way through the Navy’s administrative process.

 

“The next step is up to the state,” Denny said.

[D C]

2 hours ago, smbt1 said:

Actually the document was generated by the Navy, not protesters as the article indicated.  It appears that the Navy has a different view than yours

 

as the article states

 

“Any activity that restricts or prohibits vessel transit in or out of the Harbor impacts our defense mission capabilities there,” said Trice Denny, a spokeswoman for Naval Air Station Key West.

 

Gwen Filosa

Wed, February 9, 2022, 10:52 AM·5 min read

This was more than a monster truck trying to squeeze into a compact parking space.

A Celebrity cruise ship that stopped in Key West over the weekend jutted out into a passageway used by the U.S. Navy. And Naval Air Station Key West says the ship partially blocked the entrance to the Navy’s Truman Harbor.

By exceeding the boundary line, the 1,004-foot Celebrity Apex’s mooring at the privately run Pier B had a bigger fallout than your typical bad parking job in a South Beach garage.

“Any activity that restricts or prohibits vessel transit in or out of the Harbor impacts our defense mission capabilities there,” said Trice Denny, a spokeswoman for Naval Air Station Key West.

 

“The violation is that it’s past the boundaries of the submerged land lease in the deed and it juts out into the opening into Truman Harbor,” Denny said. “We need all that opening space to safely maneuver vessels in and out of the harbor.”

 

The Naval Air Station said it has drafted a notification of the violation to the Florida Department of Environmental Protection, which has a lease with the dock’s private owner, Pier B Development Corp., that allows cruise ships to dock.

 

The notice is working its way through the Navy’s administrative process.

 

“The next step is up to the state,” Denny said.

Right. Only because the anti-cruise ship group went whining to the Navy.  They had to say something. 

[smbt1]

40 minutes ago, D C said:

Right. Only because the anti-cruise ship group went whining to the Navy.  They had to say something. 

The Navy had made a similar complaint prior to Covid, they did not continue to pursue it because the ships stopped coming.  This is basically putting resuming the pre-covid notification.

 

Since when has the military been responsive to protestors, quite a reach there.

[LGW59]

1 hour ago, D C said:

Right. Only because the anti-cruise ship group went whining to the Navy.  They had to say something. 

Their town, respect their wishes 

[miaminative0853]

3 hours ago, smbt1 said:

Actually the document was generated by the Navy, not protesters as the article indicated.  It appears that the Navy has a different view than yours

 

as the article states

 

“Any activity that restricts or prohibits vessel transit in or out of the Harbor impacts our defense mission capabilities there,” said Trice Denny, a spokeswoman for Naval Air Station Key West.

 

Gwen Filosa

Wed, February 9, 2022, 10:52 AM·5 min read

This was more than a monster truck trying to squeeze into a compact parking space.

A Celebrity cruise ship that stopped in Key West over the weekend jutted out into a passageway used by the U.S. Navy. And Naval Air Station Key West says the ship partially blocked the entrance to the Navy’s Truman Harbor.

By exceeding the boundary line, the 1,004-foot Celebrity Apex’s mooring at the privately run Pier B had a bigger fallout than your typical bad parking job in a South Beach garage.

“Any activity that restricts or prohibits vessel transit in or out of the Harbor impacts our defense mission capabilities there,” said Trice Denny, a spokeswoman for Naval Air Station Key West.

 

“The violation is that it’s past the boundaries of the submerged land lease in the deed and it juts out into the opening into Truman Harbor,” Denny said. “We need all that opening space to safely maneuver vessels in and out of the harbor.”

 

The Naval Air Station said it has drafted a notification of the violation to the Florida Department of Environmental Protection, which has a lease with the dock’s private owner, Pier B Development Corp., that allows cruise ships to dock.

 

The notice is working its way through the Navy’s administrative process.

 

“The next step is up to the state,” Denny said.

Yes, I read the article. There is no documentation. It is one statement by a spokesperson for NAS- Key West. I suspect the draft "notification" will go nowhere. 

[miaminative0853]

3 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

Their town, respect their wishes 

Not quite how it works in America. Locals do not have exclusive, superior rights to all other citizens.

[canderson]

10 hours ago, D C said:

This is just the whiny anti-cruise ship people at work, and appears to not be out of the ordinary.  Even the Google maps 3D view has a HAL ship over the same line by about the same amount. 

I'm confused.  That photo shows the cruise ship across the line into the Outer Mole (Fort Zachary Cruise Pier - Truman Waterfront Park) area.  On 'busy' cruise days, cruise ships docked in that harbor all the time before the locals started to object to cruise ships at any KW berth.  When was the last time there was a Navy vessel in that harbor?  Don't ever recall seeing one during any of our several KW visits.  The only govmint ship I've ever seen there is the CGC Ingham (Coast Guard museum).

 

[smbt1]

1 hour ago, miaminative0853 said:

Not quite how it works in America. Locals do not have exclusive, superior rights to all other citizens.

Shows what a million dollar contribution from the owners of pier B to the Governors  Committee (PAC) will get you  which apparently is how it works in FLorida.

Edited February 12, 2022 by smbt1

[smbt1]

44 minutes ago, canderson said:

I'm confused.  That photo shows the cruise ship across the line into the Outer Mole (Fort Zachary Cruise Pier - Truman Waterfront Park) area.  On 'busy' cruise days, cruise ships docked in that harbor all the time before the locals started to object to cruise ships at any KW berth.  When was the last time there was a Navy vessel in that harbor?  Don't ever recall seeing one during any of our several KW visits.  The only govmint ship I've ever seen there is the CGC Ingham (Coast Guard museum).

 

Compare the picture you quoted to the picture in the article.  The tie down point in the picture you quoted was right at the marker, the one that the Navy complained about was about 30 feet over the line.

 

Basically the pier has a deed.  The ship is docked such that it extends past the boundary into area owned and controlled by the Navy.

 

Consider it to be the same as if a neighbor decided to use part of your land to park a car, let him do it long enough and he could claim an easement since you did not object to his use.  

 

The Navy is simply saying that the ships cannot dock outside of the area specified in the deed.

[D C]

11 hours ago, smbt1 said:

The Navy had made a similar complaint prior to Covid, they did not continue to pursue it because the ships stopped coming.  This is basically putting resuming the pre-covid notification.

 

Since when has the military been responsive to protestors, quite a reach there.

When a very visible anti-ship group gets whole articles in the local paper and tags the navy in pictures, it gets a little tough for them to look the other way.  

[D C]

10 hours ago, LGW59 said:

Their town, respect their wishes 

I would rather go there and spend money to the benefit of those locals who are happy that ships come into port and provide them with income.  🙂

[miaminative0853]

9 hours ago, smbt1 said:

Compare the picture you quoted to the picture in the article.  The tie down point in the picture you quoted was right at the marker, the one that the Navy complained about was about 30 feet over the line.

 

Basically the pier has a deed.  The ship is docked such that it extends past the boundary into area owned and controlled by the Navy.

 

Consider it to be the same as if a neighbor decided to use part of your land to park a car, let him do it long enough and he could claim an easement since you did not object to his use.  

 

The Navy is simply saying that the ships cannot dock outside of the area specified in the deed.

Let's add one more element to your hypothetical example: There is a aggressive, vocal group of neighbors that doesnt want your car in the neighborhood at all, properly parked or not.

 

This isnt about a cruise ship being a few feet over a boundary line. If it was, it would never be a story. It would just get worked out amicably between the Navy and the CLs. Neither has a reason to get into a big dispute over something so minor and easily resolved.