Russian Sanctions to include cruise business?

[DunmowCruiser]

Great to see someone expressing the reality of the situation for the people now in the middle of a war zone for us it’s annoying for them it’s life and deaths

[GaCruiser53]

Hopefully we will get to most of the other ports.  Regent will not put their resources (ships, crew, and passengers) into any dangerous area.  

 

As much as I wanted to see some of the sights in St. Petersburg, with what is going on right now, this not the time to feed the Russian economy.  I just hope this doesn't escalate into something bigger and endangers other countries in the area.   

 

 

[SAC52]

We have also received notification of the 3 day stop over in St Petersburg cancellation (Splendor, 26th July Stockholm to London) we planned to fly to Copenhagen, dinner at some famous restaurant, train to Stockholm & pick up ship. Disappointed, yes, but completely understand. However, waiting to see which ports included but thinking that given Putins attitude, Latvia & Estonia could be pulled as well. Fortunately (or not) hotels are all on a late cancellation booking so the flight is the only thing we loose plus knowing Regent our deposit & cruise credits. Sadly they’ve not proved to be the most accommodating in the past couple of years. 

[Wendy The Wanderer]

On 2/24/2022 at 3:33 PM, mrlevin said:

Unlike Wendy, I do not expect any monetary compensation (not even shipboard credit).

I don't expect compensation, Marc.  I just thought they might offer it because, for many, SPG is the highlight of the cruise.  Frankly I'd much rather spend more time in the fjords, but that's just me. We're already stopping at Tallinn so I expect they'll add Helsinki.  An overnight in Oslo or Stockholm would also be nice.

[Jimmcdaniel]

We wouldn't mind going to Riga again. Last time we were there Regent offered a culinary tour and cooking class we were unable to attend due to a schedule conflict. Maybe that will be offered again. I think Helsinki is a likely add to partially replace St. Petersburg. I don't think the other Baltic ports will be affected. Skipping St. P is about avoiding Russia IMO. Why should the other NATO countries in the Baltic be penalized? All of theses ports are hundreds of miles away from the conflict zones in Ukraine. 

[Wendy The Wanderer]

Yes, more or longer ports in Latvia, Lithuania or Estonia would be very welcome.

[RachelG]

George and I have wanted to do a repeat Baltic cruise but had absolutely no desire to go to St Petersburg again.  Too bad we already had a cruise booked in June, or we would be booking a Baltic to exclude Russia.

[Hawaiidan]

1 hour ago, RachelG said:

George and I have wanted to do a repeat Baltic cruise but had absolutely no desire to go to St Petersburg again.  Too bad we already had a cruise booked in June, or we would be booking a Baltic to exclude Russia.

I think your not  going to see any ship anywhere near the entire Baltic region for many, many years

 Threats today have been made already  to Poland, Sweeden and Finland...   Same with any  countries than border Russia...... west and EAST coast ...

[ronrick1943]

On 2/25/2022 at 1:27 PM, GaCruiser53 said:

Hopefully we will get to most of the other ports.  Regent will not put their resources (ships, crew, and passengers) into any dangerous area.  

 

As much as I wanted to see some of the sights in St. Petersburg, with what is going on right now, this not the time to feed the Russian economy.  I just hope this doesn't escalate into something bigger and endangers other countries in the area.   

 

 

I agree, Russian is the last place I’d want to help at this time.  Even the people in Russian that are protesting what Russian is doing are breaking Russian law…………..

[irishwitchy]

4 hours ago, RachelG said:

George and I have wanted to do a repeat Baltic cruise but had absolutely no desire to go to St Petersburg again.  Too bad we already had a cruise booked in June, or we would be booking a Baltic to exclude Russia.

Why do you feel that way? 

[Hawaiidan]

15 hours ago, irishwitchy said:

Why do you feel that way? 

Reminded of  Nero fiddling while he watches Rome burn      Some are just detached from reality... who knows why

[Aloha 1]

On 2/24/2022 at 3:33 PM, mrlevin said:

We have lost five Russian ports and there were two sea days getting to the White Sea ports; I sure hope they substitute something good.  Unlike Wendy, I do not expect any monetary compensation (not even shipboard credit).

 

Marc

Excuse me but people are dying in Ukraine defending their freedom from the new Hitler, and you are worried about your replacement ports?? I would be more concerned about whether we will have world in the next few weeks since Putin has put his nuclear forces on ready alert.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Aloha 1

[mrlevin]

Please do not judge what you do not know. 

[GOARMY]

A few thoughts.  History, while it does not exactly repeat itself, often rhymes.

 

June 6, 1944.  Major General Gunther Blumentritt in conversation with Field Marshal Gerd von Rundstedt, C&C, West as to whether Allied paratroop landings behind the Normandy beaches were a diversionary attack--or prelude to the main Invasion expected to take place at Pas-de-Calais. 

 

"We are living an historical moment."  This in the context of Hitler's decision NOT to allow immediate release of several Panzer Divisions held in Reserve to Rundstedt's Command for deployment at Normandy.  And--reluctance of the Generals around Hitler to fully brief him on a nagging suspicion that Normandy--not Calais--was THE Invasion site. 

 

We are currently--this day--living an historical moment.  Europe will never be the same hereafter.  Russia will never be the same, hopefully.  There may well-be another Russian Revolution, as the body bags come home. 

 

August 3, 1914.  Comment of British Foreign Secretary Sir Edward Grey to a friend:  "The lamps are going out all over Europe tonight.  We will not see them relit again in our lifetime."

 

May 3, 1915.  Ltc. Colonel John McCrae, Canadian Medical Corps:  "In Flanders Fields the poppies blow, between the crosses row on row . . . "  Red poppies.  

 

While at Bruges, Belgium on our August-September 2019 Explorer Baltics-British Isles B/t/B--took a day-long excursion to Ypres (Flanders).  This is often referred to as "The Cemetery Tour".  So-many Memorials and Cemeteries in such a relatively small space.  Worst battles of WWI fought there over the duration of "The War to End All Wars". 

 

About a week earlier, when at Tallinn, Estonia, a five-hour tour titled:  "Estonia's Soviet Past".  Grim history, indeed, which included a visit to a former KGB Prison, now a Memorial.  Pictures on the wall of Estonian citizens who, while in that prison, were tortured and murdered.  

 

Earlier that year, during a series of river boat tours throughout France--visited Normandy and the American Invasion Beaches--Utah and Omaha.  Also, cliffs at Point du Hoc; town of Sainte-Mere-Eglise (within drop zone of the American 82nd Airbourne Division); and, most-dramatic, the American Museum and Cemetery above Omaha Beach.  More row upon row of crosses.  And, Stars of David.  

 

Lastly:  recommend reading Timothy Snyder's "Bloodlands--Europe Between Hitler and Stalin".  The Baltics, Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Romania, Bulgaria.  Mass murder on an industrial scale by both the *** and Soviets.  Stalin's organized 1932-1933 starvation campaign in Ukraine which resulted in the deaths of millions. 

 

As Stalin opined:  "The death of a man is a tragedy; the death of a million is a statistic."  And--"No man; no problem."  

 

And all this before the horrors of WWII.

 

Tough reading.  At times, could only stomach reading 10 or 20 pages in a sitting.

 

And--the State Department has now advised ALL Americans to get out of Russia immediately.

 

Stay safe.  

 

GOARMY!

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by GOARMY
Context.

[irishwitchy]

22 hours ago, irishwitchy said:

Why do you feel that way? 

 

On 2/26/2022 at 5:21 PM, RachelG said:

George and I have wanted to do a repeat Baltic cruise but had absolutely no desire to go to St Petersburg again.  Too bad we already had a cruise booked in June, or we would be booking a Baltic to exclude Russia.

Hawaiian guy,  my question wasn’t directed to you or the current conflict.   Rachel,  why no interest in going back to St. Petersburg -  just didn’t like it or something more?  Never been there,  have tried twice,  but COVID and conflicts have stopped us.  

[RachelG]

On 2/26/2022 at 8:29 PM, irishwitchy said:

Why do you feel that way? 

St Petersburg is an interesting place to visit once, but no desire to return.  The historic sites are lovely, but my husband felt the people were very repressed.  We did enjoy the historic sites though.  

[TrulyBlonde]

12 minutes ago, RachelG said:

St Petersburg is an interesting place to visit once, but no desire to return.  The historic sites are lovely, but my husband felt the people were very repressed.  We did enjoy the historic sites though.  

I agree with you. Once was enough for us too. The crowds and worrying about the pickpockets. I remember 2 woman have passports stolen and not being able to embark and having to go to Moscow to get everything taken care of. Historic sights are wonderful as you stated but no desire to go again

[GOARMY]

One more historical remembrance--ours--as to St. Petersburg.  This has relevance to current events. Summer, 1997.  Wife, self, and our young daughter were on Silversea's brand-new "Cloud" during a Baltics cruise.  Our Group's Guide had just taken us through a "private" tour of a portion of The Winter Palace, and most-particularly The Hermitage. 

 

Immediately outside--in Alexander Square.  We were observing the famous Alexander Column.  This monolith was constructed to honor Czar Alexander I.  Lest we forget:  Alexander's forces combined with those of Prussia and England to finally defeat Napoleon. 

 

Stalin, as he once mentioned to Churchill, appreciated the fact that Russian troops actually did get to march in Paris, following Napoleon's defeat at Waterloo.  

 

Soos--there our little (perhaps 25 folks) group stood, waiting for the bus to take us to the next stop.  When, here came children and their mothers.  Our group was surrounded by crying women and screaming children.  My Russian was sufficient to immediately ask our Guide, more-or-less, what the +++ was going on.  It should have been obvious. 

 

The women were widows of Russian (Soviet) soldiers killed during the USSR's multi-year misadventure/debacle in Afghanistan.  The children--progeny.   The kids were begging for money.  The mothers kept screaming that the "new" Russian government was doing nothing to give them support. 

 

Our Guide just stood there for several minutes, declining to intervene.  I spoke a few words in Russian to one of the women attempting to offer a degree of consolation.  That, from an old retired (American) soldier.  Remember her stepping back and grabbing one of her children.  

 

And, yes.  I did reach in my pocket and give her rubles.  

 

Finally, the Guide and a Policeman intervened to move that group back.  Our bus arrived; we left.  Shortly thereafter, the Guide and I had a brief one-on-one conversation--in English.  She explained what we witnessed was common-place.  Russian widows were aware when foreign tourist groups would be at Hermitage--and other popular sites.  Good venues to, basically beg, and seek money.  She just shrugged her shoulders.   

 

As mentioned in Posting #39--history has a habit of rhyming.  This time, however, social media will record the events no matter how hard Putin attempts to contain the damage. 

 

More Russian widows, and orphans.  Cautionary tale:  Partisan resistance from 1941-1944 in Yugoslavia following Germany's initial "occupation".  It did not turn out well--for Germany; it will not turn out well for Putin.  

 

Stay safe.  

 

GOARMY!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Scout16]

I agree with the comments about going to Saint Petersburg once, I was there in 2006 just after some international conference had shut down the city and there were twice as many tourists at all the sites.  I would like to see more of the Baltic, but I do not want to spend two to three days in Saint Petersburg.

[UUNetBill]

I guess I'm the oddball here - we've done two three-day trips to StP (well, we did the Moscow day trip on the second visit) and barring the political issues we'd go back in a heartbeat.  Our most recent trip was very different than our first trip - much more open, the people seemed friendlier, it just had a better vibe.  I could easily keep myself happily occupied in StP for another three days.

 

But that's kind of a non-issue now, I guess.

[Ladys Mom]

I too agree with all of the comments regarding one trip to St. Petersburg being sufficient.  Of all the countries we have visited, the one that I always tell people is a one and done is Russia.  We are booked on a Baltic cruise this summer which, if it happens, will not include Russia. We also are booked on the Arctic Odyssey for summer 2023 that will include St. Petersburg so be it.

Thank you GOARMY for all of your comments.  They were really enlightening.  

[Clodia]

I saw Russia on a land based trip in 1989 just after the collapse of Communism and when Yeltsin replaced Gorbachev. It was so poor; the ordinary people had nothing. They were terribly hospitable though. We travelled on the overnight train from Moscow to St Petersburg and gave a Russian lady a glass of champagne because we had some to celebrate our wedding anniversary; she was wanting us to come to her house for a meal the next day but Intourist said no! They never let you out of their sight.

Last time I went was for 2 days ( 3nights) in 2019 on a Baltic cruise. The city had changed a lot: modern cars instead of beaten up old ones; a lot more traffic; Western designer shops and people dressed more smartly. But still a feeling of repression; you could only go where they wanted you to go.

[UUNetBill]

37 minutes ago, Clodia said:

Last time I went was for 2 days ( 3nights) in 2019 on a Baltic cruise. The city had changed a lot: modern cars instead of beaten up old ones; a lot more traffic; Western designer shops and people dressed more smartly. But still a feeling of repression; you could only go where they wanted you to go.

I was unable to travel to Russia (USSR, actually) when I lived in Germany due to military restrictions, but we saw a noticeable difference in both the cities and the people between our first trip there in 2011 and our last trip in 2017.  Surprisingly we were given free time to wander on our own in both Moscow and StP, something that was unheard of in 2011 (and I'm sure in the 80s as well!).

 

Like I said, I'm the oddball - under normal circumstances I'd go back to Russia in a heartbeat.

[mrlevin]

Bill, in addition to St Petersburg (2009) and large swaths of Siberia (2018) by cruise ship, we also spent four days on our own in Moscow in 2010 whilst I was working in Brussels  Although we had driver and guide, we were able to ride subway on our own and also ended up taking train to airport on our own when traffic was too bad to drive.  Our trip to Moscow was one of the highlights of our time in Europe.

 

The one Russian port I still want to visit is Murmansk.  Starting work during the Cold War and spending a lot of time studying Soviet forces and tactics, I would really like to see Murmansk, including the Naval Museum, for myself.  

 

Marc

 

PS I have given up on ever getting to Khunjerab Pass but I still hope to get to Murmansk someday.

Edited March 1, 2022 by mrlevin

[UUNetBill]

2 hours ago, mrlevin said:

The one Russian port I still want to visit is Murmansk.  Starting work during the Cold War and spending a lot of time studying Soviet forces and tactics, I would really like to see Murmansk, including the Naval Museum, for myself.  

Murmansk was on an itinerary we were looking at a few years ago but we couldn't make the dates work.  Shame, too - doesn't look like that will be an option again any time soon...