Dog at Dining Table & Skunk Pot on Balcony common issues?

[FunGranny]

On 3/11/2022 at 8:02 PM, time4u2go said:

OK, here you go:

 

https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.pdf

Unfortunately, you can purchase service vests for dogs on the internet without a Rx. This has resulted in much abuse of the program by selfish  and self centered people. Hopefully the government will step up to establish protocol which will eliminate this problem and allow public transportation officials to ask for certification cards. 

We seem to forget that this is also a major medical concern for those who are severely allergic to dogs and other animals. 

[LGW59]

2 minutes ago, Surfguyxxx said:

I recently went on a cruise with a friend who "had" to bring his dog.  He has papers for a "service" dog but in actuality, it was not.  His doctor friend gave him the "service dog" papers (his words not mine).  Anyways, RC had strict instructions as to what to rules were.  At all times, the dog had to be on a leash; no carrying the dog in the dining room; absolutely no eating off of the guest plate of foods; no hand feeding the dog in the dining room; the list went on.  

If I had a friend that did this, I'd very easily say sorry bud, not traveling with me you don't pull this crap.  If it ended the friendship, so be it.  Just cannot stomach people that pull this crap!

[Mikew0805]

Wow a whole thread on adults arguing about a dog on board. I cannot remember the last sailing I was on that I didn't see a dog. I love my dogs more than anything (including any human) on this planet, and I would still not want them on a cruise ship.

 

However, this is one of those things, that if I didn't like being near one, or sitting next to one, instead of throwing a tantrum, I would just use my adult skills... and move or ask to be moved. 

[LGW59]

2 minutes ago, Mikew0805 said:

Wow a whole thread on adults arguing about a dog on board. I cannot remember the last sailing I was on that I didn't see a dog. I love my dogs more than anything (including any human) on this planet, and I would still not want them on a cruise ship.

 

However, this is one of those things, that if I didn't like being near one, or sitting next to one, instead of throwing a tantrum, I would just use my adult skills... and move or ask to be moved. 

Yet you still felt the need to comment on it…

[Surfguyxxx]

26 minutes ago, Mikew0805 said:

Wow a whole thread on adults arguing about a dog on board. I cannot remember the last sailing I was on that I didn't see a dog. I love my dogs more than anything (including any human) on this planet, and I would still not want them on a cruise ship.

 

However, this is one of those things, that if I didn't like being near one, or sitting next to one, instead of throwing a tantrum, I would just use my adult skills... and move or ask to be moved. 

Nicely put.

 

[time4u2go]

1 hour ago, FunGranny said:

Unfortunately, you can purchase service vests for dogs on the internet without a Rx. This has resulted in much abuse of the program by selfish  and self centered people. Hopefully the government will step up to establish protocol which will eliminate this problem and allow public transportation officials to ask for certification cards. 

We seem to forget that this is also a major medical concern for those who are severely allergic to dogs and other animals. 

Keep in mind that if the government establishes protocols, it would have limited or no impact on foreign-flagged cruise ships.

[topnole]

56 minutes ago, Mikew0805 said:

Wow a whole thread on adults arguing about a dog on board. I cannot remember the last sailing I was on that I didn't see a dog. I love my dogs more than anything (including any human) on this planet, and I would still not want them on a cruise ship.

 

However, this is one of those things, that if I didn't like being near one, or sitting next to one, instead of throwing a tantrum, I would just use my adult skills... and move or ask to be moved. 

The entire thread is not an argument.  Much of it is a discussion.  People are certainly going to have opinions about others who pretend to have service dogs so they can garner attention.  These folks are selfish and have clearly have zero principles and personal ethics.  Make no mistake, all of the fakers damage public perception which hurts those that really need them.  
 

What a shocker that people chime in.  Even you did with your opinion.  Are you suggesting that the adults are being childish for caring that some adults do things that cause issues for those who really need these service animals?   

[livingonthebeach]

1 hour ago, Mikew0805 said:

Wow a whole thread on adults arguing about a dog on board. I cannot remember the last sailing I was on that I didn't see a dog. I love my dogs more than anything (including any human) on this planet, and I would still not want them on a cruise ship.

 

However, this is one of those things, that if I didn't like being near one, or sitting next to one, instead of throwing a tantrum, I would just use my adult skills... and move or ask to be moved. 

 

The thread is about two things 1.Dogs in the MDR and 2.Pot smoking on the balconies. I believe the OP's intentions, aside from venting, was to try to find out if others had experienced these incidents and how to go about them in the future.

 

The first one, (dog problem) as many suggested before you, is to move to another table -- easy peasy.  The second issue is more challenging as it involves reporting, determining where the smoke is coming from and action by crew to remedy the situation. This multiple step issue is more complicated due to some steps being beyond our control and involves time and cooperation both on our part and on the part of the crew. As most of us are on a cruise to enjoy our limited time relaxing and having a good time, and crew are required to focus on more serious infractions, resolving the skunk pot thing will probably never occur. Like myself, many have tried to report cigarette and cigar smoking on balconies, to no avail. 

[S.A.M.J.R.]

22 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

The thread is about two things 1.Dogs in the MDR and 2.Pot smoking on the balconies. I believe the OP's intentions, aside from venting, was to try to find out if others had experienced these incidents and how to go about them in the future.

You forgot the airport worker who wouldn't put the OPs bag up to the scanner. 

[livingonthebeach]

8 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

You forgot the airport worker who wouldn't put the OPs bag up to the scanner. 

 

I'm afraid I missed that one. Was it posted in this thread? Post number? TIA

[S.A.M.J.R.]

4 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

I'm afraid I missed that one. Was it posted in this thread? Post number? TIA

Post #1.  Toward the bottom. 

[topnole]

36 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

The thread is about two things 1.Dogs in the MDR and 2.Pot smoking on the balconies. I believe the OP's intentions, aside from venting, was to try to find out if others had experienced these incidents and how to go about them in the future.

 

The first one, (dog problem) as many suggested before you, is to move to another table -- easy peasy.  The second issue is more challenging as it involves reporting, determining where the smoke is coming from and action by crew to remedy the situation. This multiple step issue is more complicated due to some steps being beyond our control and involves time and cooperation both on our part and on the part of the crew. As most of us are on a cruise to enjoy our limited time relaxing and having a good time, and crew are required to focus on more serious infractions, resolving the skunk pot thing will probably never occur. Like myself, many have tried to report cigarette and cigar smoking on balconies, to no avail. 

The smoking issue (pot or otherwise) is really only solved if you know where it comes from.  Often that isn’t hard to determine if you can smell it that much on a ship balcony.  I have had times where I could easily determine the location and made calls to GS.  On one trip we never smelled it again.  Not sure if the call was the reason.   
 

I suppose the dog issue could also be dealt with by requesting that the handling of the dog fall within Royal policy.  So if they aren’t allowed to sit up in your lap and eat at a table (which seems to have been reported before on CC), then ask the manager to deal with it.  A passenger shouldn’t have to move because someone else is violating Royal policy.  Surely moving is an option, but if this happened in the middle of a meal, why should a person have to move?   There are varying options that have merit.  

[livingonthebeach]

8 minutes ago, topnole said:

The smoking issue (pot or otherwise) is really only solved if you know where it comes from.  Often that isn’t hard to determine if you can smell it that much on a ship balcony.  I have had times where I could easily determine the location and made calls to GS.  On one trip we never smelled it again.  Not sure if the call was the reason.   
 

I suppose the dog issue could also be dealt with by requesting that the handling of the dog fall within Royal policy.  So if they aren’t allowed to sit up in your lap and eat at a table (which seems to have been reported before on CC), then ask the manager to deal with it.  A passenger shouldn’t have to move because someone else is violating Royal policy.  Surely moving is an option, but if this happened in the middle of a meal, why should a person have to move?   There are varying options that have merit.  

 

True, you have some valid points. Many times I have not been able to pinpoint exactly which balcony stateroom the smoke is coming from and since I want to spend the time doing other things besides playing sleuth, I let it go. It's frustrating yes, but not enough for me to waste precious cruising time. 

 

Yes, I can see if you're in the middle of a meal or just love the table by the window you just scored, as to why you shouldn't have to move, however, it might not be worth your time and effort to demand a resolution right there and then. Moving (although not fair) might be the easiest option. 

[LGW59]

38 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

You forgot the airport worker who wouldn't put the OPs bag up to the scanner. 

and he forgot the cop and the pot and cigar smoker at the Hilton 🥴

[livingonthebeach]

23 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

Post #1.  Toward the bottom. 

 

Oh I see it now. I think the rule of thumb for this should be if you can't carry something on your own, don't bring it. If my carryon is so heavy I can't lift it myself, I find other alternatives. Same with luggage - if I can't wheel it out myself I find other solutions. You shouldn't depend on TSA and security personnel at airports to do what you or a family member or porter should be doing. 

[livingonthebeach]

2 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

and he forgot the cop and the pot and cigar smoker at the Hilton 🥴

 

Uhmm that would be "SHE" forgot 🤣 or as they say in Mexico, I'm a señorita. I'll look into the Hilton-Cigar-Pot-Smoking-Cop thing after my afternoon siesta.

[cruiserjt]

It is so nice to have these "normal" issues back on CC. Let's worry about dogs and smoking pot and criticize everyone's opinion that differs from your own.  WooHoo - It is not about masks, vaccines, Covid tests or how many passengers on the ship.  There is a light at the end of the tunnel. I happen to enjoy these little chats.

[cured]

17 hours ago, foxgoodrich said:

Not ponies - miniature horses.  The single possible ADA exception to service animals being dogs is the miniature horse.  The miniature horse must be less than 34" tall and weight 100 lb or less and must be trained to perform specific tasks.  

 

The DOJ has established 4 assessment factors, allowing a "covered entity"  (Title II) or "public accommodation" (Title III) to determine policy on allowing miniature horses. 

You are correct and a very important distinction. Miniature horses are not ponies.

[cured]

6 hours ago, flamingos said:

A properly trained service dog will not be eating from the table. 

I believe the dog was sitting on the lap. I do not believe anything was said about eating from the table.

[cured]

6 hours ago, topnole said:

I have never met a person that faked needing portable oxygen.  I have met or know several people who faked needing a dog so that they could bring it on a public carrier such as a plane.  We all know there are plenty of abusers.  This is a ridiculous analogy.  You should be annoyed at the many who are fakers who just want to bring their pet on a cruise.  

Who says I am not annoyed at those that fake service animals? As the relative of someone with a true service animal, who is as paramount to his ability to function as any other piece of equipment, it makes me furious when fakers make people question the legitimacy of actual service dogs.

 

Several years ago my 20 year old niece posted that she had ordered a service vest and "official" certificate for her dog and now her beloved baby could go anywhere with her.  After the lectures she received from me and others in the family how she was hurting her cousin, that dog NEVER wore that vest.

[BND]

2 hours ago, time4u2go said:

Keep in mind that if the government establishes protocols, it would have limited or no impact on foreign-flagged cruise ships.

Royal uses other US laws to enforce their rules onboard.  Drinking age for example.  What it gives them is a basis and wording to use to do so.

 

Also, as for "papers" for a service dog.  There are no such papers, nor is there any certification process other than what some training facilities have.  But, there is no oversight or National standards.   The rules that do exist are based on what true service dogs have been taught when they are really trained for that purpose.

[chengkp75]

17 minutes ago, BND said:

Royal uses other US laws to enforce their rules onboard.  Drinking age for example.  What it gives them is a basis and wording to use to do so.

RCI does not use US law to set drinking age onboard.  That is simply a corporate policy depending on where cruises initiate from.  That is an example of an "internal" jurisdiction, which falls under the jurisdiction of the "flag state", not the "port state".  In the overlapping jurisdictions aboard a foreign flag ship in a US port, typically, "port state" law (US) is not applied to the ship unless the "safety or good order" of the port state is affected.  And, as noted in my previous post, SCOTUS has ruled that in the absence of a specific mention of foreign flag cruise ships in the ADA, that in the interest of international harmony, the "internal policies and procedures" of the ship do not fall under the ADA.  See, Spector v NCL.

 

23 minutes ago, BND said:

The rules that do exist are based on what true service dogs have been taught when they are really trained for that purpose.

Actually, there is no requirement for a service dog to be formally trained.  Many people who cannot afford a commercially trained service dog, get by training the animal themselves.  Other people find out haphazardly, that their pet can sense things and do things for their disabled person.  However, there are requirements in the DOJ guidelines on service animal behavior that must be met, whether the animal is commercially trained or not.

[foxgoodrich]

41 minutes ago, BND said:

Also, as for "papers" for a service dog.  There are no such papers, nor is there any certification process other than what some training facilities have.  But, there is no oversight or National standards.   The rules that do exist are based on what true service dogs have been taught when they are really trained for that purpose.

Yes, you are correct.  Unfortunately there are all kinds of unscrupulous people selling fake papers, fake certificates, fake vests, fake harnesses, etc.  I have learned from talking to people who are trying to pass off their pets as service dogs that it costs about $75 or so to get a full compliment of fake stuff to pass off your pet as a service dog.  

 

The only thing we (or businesses, public entities, and public accommodations) can do to fight against this is exactly what cured did with his niece.  And we can ask questions  that might make them squirm.  Oh!  Is your dog a service animal necessary for a disability?  What task is your dog trained to do?   

 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by foxgoodrich
spelling

[topnole]

1 hour ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Oh I see it now. I think the rule of thumb for this should be if you can't carry something on your own, don't bring it. If my carryon is so heavy I can't lift it myself, I find other alternatives. Same with luggage - if I can't wheel it out myself I find other solutions. You shouldn't depend on TSA and security personnel at airports to do what you or a family member or porter should be doing. 

This brings us full circle.  What about anyone with a disability?  Are they not entitled to reasonable accommodation?  

[foxgoodrich]

Yes, of course, persons with disabilities are entitled to reasonable accommodation at the airport.  Usually this involves notifying the airline of your specific needs for accommodation when you buy your ticket, or 48 hours ahead of your flight.  This notification is not required, but every person with a disability that I know does it in order to be sure the requested accommodation(s) can and will be provided.  The passenger also can confirm his/her needs at check-in to ensure that necessary accommodations are in place.

 

It's not reasonable to expect Security or TSA to assist you with your carry-on just because your rude and inconsiderate husband jetted through the line and left you, your heavy carry-on, and your bad knee behind.      

(Actually, Security and/or TSA are probably not even allowed to touch your carryon unless they flag it for inspection.)