Most controversial cruise opinion??

[The Shrike]

8 hours ago, juju2454 said:

so there is actually a strong incentive at play for haven guests NOT to misbehave... because everybody will learn about it and finger point and talk about you. and there would be no escape

* we talk about you outside of haven lol, as you can see.  🙂 lol   I understand what you are saying but in all honesty, I have indeed been referred to as steerage by a Haven person.   If you want to be alone I have to ask Why go on a cruise of 3000+ people?    Honest question.

We don't cruise to be around 3000 other people, that's a necessary evil that goes along with it..  We cruise for the experience, the scenery, the destinations, the dining, the service, etc. 

[cruiseny4life]

Of course I have to add my thoughts to this thread as well! Because...well, I'm an entitled Haven passenger. Just the fact of being in the Haven means I'm entitled. Look at the perks - priority boarding/embarkation, first to the tenders, butlers at my every whim, a concierge with no line, trays of cookies/breads/muffins in my room every day. That sounds pretty entitled to me. But I come from nothing, where my family made maybe $30k a year (and that was back in the late 90's/early 2000's. I understand why those outside the Haven think of Haven passengers as entitled (place your favorite word here). 

 

I will also say that none of the perks I mentioned are why I book the Haven. I book the Haven for the food. We went on our first Haven sailing in April - it was my husband's first sailing and he's more a luxury kind of guy, though he grew up in a family that had pretty much nothing too. I give my husband what he wants - makes for two happy men. 🙂

 

10 hours ago, UKstages said:

i have also been an haven guest and i've never run into this entitlement thing that's being discussed here. never.

 

Unfortunately, in my first twenty minutes in the Haven I witnessed "this entitlement thing." It was fun for my husband and I, but downright wretched for the poor staff. This is likely not a controversial cruise opinion as I hope everyone on this board would share their enthusiasm if this guy had to walk the real plank. So, perhaps that's the controversial opinion - where the heck is the plank and why can't we have people that misbehave walk it?

 

We call him "milk man." Apparently in the hour he had been on the ship he called his butler three times to get some milk for his little baby child (as you can tell from my profile photo I much prefer dogs). Apparently the butler didn't snap to and provide the milk in a timely fashion. Milk man then went to the Haven hostess. In typical entitled fashion, he chastised the hostess over the butler's poor performance, asserted that he would never have this problem on Royal Caribbean, and continued with a few expletives before telling her to get him milk for his little baby child.

 

The hostess is empathetic and immediately leaves to get milk for milk man and his baby child. After less than a minute, milk man leaves uttering on top of his breath how terrible NCL is. My husband and I just look at each other thinking, "oh no, why did we book the Haven?" Then we laugh...at milk man. The hostess comes back with the milk 30 seconds later, but milk man is nowhere to be found. She takes the milk in back to chill it. 

 

Five minutes later, milk man is back for his milk, and he's expressing his concern with the our not-so favorite Haven Restaurant Manager (you know the guy @graphicguy). The manager looks perplexed, doesn't know what to say, and gets the hostess. She apologizes to milk man for taking roughly 2.5 minutes to get his milk and comes back with two glasses of milk for milk man. He just takes them and leaves. And so, we are introduced to our first, of several, entitled Haven guests. Milk man will always be quite memorable - perhaps because he was our first. 

 

After the incident, we went up to the hostess and apologized for milk man's temper and lack of decorum - of course she says it's not a problem at all and is very professional. Let's just say, we got the best seat in the Haven every time we went to the restaurant (the fantastic table with epic views of the ocean on the Getaway - which has very little in the way of good table views from the Haven Restaurant). We were also provided those yummy pretzel rolls at every meal after the hostess asked why we weren't eating the bread on the table. 

 

12 hours ago, 2 Fun Guys said:

This. I remember coming to CC before my first-ever cruise. I had no idea what the Haven even was. But I'll never forget a Haven-related thread I clicked on and the very first post I read was someone deeply concerned that she'd have to see the "regular passengers." "Just how long from arriving at the pier do we have to mingle with the 'non-Haven class'" she lamented. "Isn't EVERYTHING separate for us?"

 

All I could think of was Rose's mother in Titanic - the ship is sinking, and she's approaching a lifeboat - "Will we be seated according to class?"

 

Yikes. Not all, I'm sure. But enough.

 

I was floored when I heard someone in the Haven complaining about having to be with the "regular" guests while boarding in NYC. Now, our sailing in April was the debacle - eight hours of waiting in line to get on the ship, let's not set sail until 11:59 PM, because the Hudson River has a "current." I can somewhat understand not wanting to be in line with others for eight hours, but making this differentiation certainly felt smarmy to me. 

 

NCL certainly isn't Cunard where class still exists, and where I bet Queens Grill guests would be taken to the lifeboats first (ok, I suppose I jest)...Cunard - I keep trying to convince my husband that I wear a crusty, wrinkled rainbow colored tuxedo to the evening gala that they insist upon having every evening....ok, back to NCL! 

 

8 hours ago, juju2454 said:

so there is actually a strong incentive at play for haven guests NOT to misbehave... because everybody will learn about it and finger point and talk about you. and there would be no escape

* we talk about you outside of haven lol, as you can see.  🙂 lol   I understand what you are saying but in all honesty, I have indeed been referred to as steerage by a Haven person.   If you want to be alone I have to ask Why go on a cruise of 3000+ people?    Honest question.

 

@UKstages - I will admit, my husband and I apparently did misbehave. Mainly because we don't give a flying monkey about what others think about us. We wore flippie floppies, bathing suits (wet even), and t-shirts into the Haven Restaurant. Apparently this is a big ole no-no. Ooops, sorry, not sorry...based on milk man and us, I don't think Haven guests have any inclination to misbehave more, or less, than other guests on the ship. 

 

Also, we book the Haven, rather than a Regent or Seabourn cruise, exactly because we prefer large ships and not having to dress up. Now that is my most controversial cruise opinion - I will never, ever dress up, and blimey if I have to put pants on when I'm on vacation. Shorts will do just fine! 

 

7 hours ago, UKstages said:

 

the reason i book the haven is for a higher level of service and hospitality and - almost always - better food.

 

^^^^^THIS, THIS, THIS says me jumping up and down excitedly like my pups when I get home!!! The better food part. The Haven has better food than anywhere else on the ship. When traveling, we want excellent food, not that "test kitchen" type excellent food, but well-cooked food.

 

9 hours ago, complawyer said:

i will also concede that we are able to book a haven because we get a % off through casinos at sea, and through cesar's entertainment.  also, we get offers for free club balcony suites, and apply the cost to upgrade to a haven.

I really wish we had these % off deals...though for our March Caribbean cruise we did receive a 10% coupon from NCL for some random reason. It was nice to take a cool $800 off our Haven! I just wonder how many G's y'all gotta gamble to get a free/% off cruise.

[midgetcoach]

8 hours ago, UKstages said:

in the interest of full disclosure, i should mention that i also get a casino comp

Hi UK, just wondering what game or games are you getting comped on ?

[graphicguy]

@cruiseny4life….love the pups, BTW!

 

I’ve sailed in the Haven 5 times over the last several years.  If a suite with a decent price presents itself, I jump on it.  Otherwise, I’m in a different sort of cabin.  I’ve also sailed the YC on MSC….2X…..once in the Mediterranean and once out of Miami, on what were their newest ships at the time.  Again, because good/great deals presented themselves.

 

So, interesting observations you posted.  There are some Haven people who are just sphincters.  Your “milkman” is a perfect example.  I have observed similar behavior in the Haven, but not always.

 

I’ve seen passengers waving around money at the Haven bar to prove to….I don’t know….someone….anyone…..that they belong there (sorry, being in the Haven doesn’t mean anything to most of us….we spent a similar amount to sail in the Haven).  Then, you have the drunks in the Haven.  Mentioned one guy in the Haven a few years ago who dropped 10s of Benjamins on a Bottle of Louis XIII and bought those at the bar shots of it.  Wonder what he thought of his final tally on his bill at the end of the cruise?  I’ve seen people break up in the HAven, and I’ve seen them make up in the Haven (to the point where they were asked to go to their cabin).

 

Some who believe they’re entitled, are just oblivious to how their behavior looks to the rest of those who are in the Haven also.

 

In general, nice begets nice…cordial begets cordial…

 

In faintness, I’ve seen the same behavior on all the Cruise LInes.  I’ve seen rudeness by Diamond(+) on Royal and the same with Celebrity with Elite and Zenith passengers.  For some unknown reason, they believe they are a “cut above”.  Of course, none of that is true.

 

So, it’s prevalent in cruising.  Don’t know why.

 

As the late, great Paul Brown always said about success…..”Act like you’ve been there before”.

 

[trivimp]

44 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

As the late, great Paul Brown always said about success…..”Act like you’ve been there before”.

 

I always thought that was a Vince Lombardi quote... but you made me curious.  My typically haphazard research shows that this quote has been attributed to at least half a dozen football greats, a list also including Tom Landry, Joe Paterno, and Bear Bryant.  Nonetheless, good advice for Haven denizens.

[graphicguy]

6 minutes ago, trivimp said:

I always thought that was a Vince Lombardi quote... but you made me curious.  My typically haphazard research shows that this quote has been attributed to at least half a dozen football greats, a list also including Tom Landry, Joe Paterno, and Bear Bryant.  Nonetheless, good advice for Haven denizens.

Now, you've got me curious....LOL!  Will research.

[ontheweb]

17 hours ago, Travelling2Some said:

I think I'm not interested in the Haven because, fundamentally, I'm not that into the ship or relaxing or being pampered (cue shocked gasp!) - although there is something special about cruising in general.  We are really about traveling to places of genuine interest with history and culture.  I'm not a beach (or pool deck) person, although my husband is. What we like about cruising is going ashore to see something new, coming back to a nice dinner (MDR is just fine) seeing a good show afterwards and waking up in a brand new place to explore.  We're retired so we're already relaxed.  The Haven wouldn't make any sense for us. 

I could have wrote the exact same post except it is DW that is the pool and beach person.She also does not like to be pampered. By the end of our first cruise (2002), she said she missed peanut butter and jelly.

[graphicguy]

13 minutes ago, trivimp said:

I always thought that was a Vince Lombardi quote... but you made me curious.  My typically haphazard research shows that this quote has been attributed to at least half a dozen football greats, a list also including Tom Landry, Joe Paterno, and Bear Bryant.  Nonetheless, good advice for Haven denizens.

Quick GOOGLE search did not yield a definitive answer.....all you listed are credited.

 

But, as you say, regardless of who said it....good advice for Haven devotees.

 

Remembering a scene jarred by the "milkman" story.....This was before COVID.  

 

Was on the Breakaway in the Haven with the GF.  We both love the Nespresso coffee machines in the Haven Suites.  We do not like those little creamers pods they stock with the Nespresso machines.  GF mentioned it casually upon our first encounter with our room steward about our distaste of the creamer pods, but was wondering whether we could just get regular milk for our coffee.  Our room steward  said she would see what could be done.

 

An hour later, we get a knock on our door as we're unpacking.  It was our room steward with an armful of those little milk cartons to put in our mini-fridge. 

 

She (the room steward) was on top of everything for us.  IIRC, she got a generous amount of dead president pictures.

[The Shrike]

20 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Now, you've got me curious....LOL!  Will research.

Get your butler to do the research for you.  😄😁

[UKstages]

11 hours ago, juju2454 said:

I had to read this twice, the ameliorates part kinda goes with what I said though,  if you don't like  those things about a cruise, why cruise? 

 

respectfully, this is a straw man argument.

 

does anybody enjoy crowds and what they perceive to be substandard service or food that may be of lesser quality? those things, while part of the cruise ship experience for most people, are not the reasons most people cruise. also, more to the point... the fact is that there are cruise lines and "ship within a ship" products - such as the haven - that address these specific issues.

 

it's no different than staying in land-based resort... you can book a more affordable B&B style accommodation four blocks from the beach or you can book a luxury five star hotel and stay in a suite with a balcony overlooking the ocean. even within the same hotel, you can book an "ordinary" room or a suite with private lounge access. you can fly in coach class or you can fly in business class with a reclining seat, better food and enjoy a pre-departure beverage and a hot towel. 

 

if somebody can cruise by purchasing a product that they believe provides a greater degree of comfort and more appealing amenities, that is their choice. and it's a valid choice... for them. other than understandable backlash from the legitimate reports of "steerage" comments, i simply don't understand the class warfare on this issue.

 

if anything, from reading thousands of posts on cruise critic, it seems like these comments and accusations most often come the other way! the people outside the haven are making value judgments about the haven and the people who choose the haven based largely on not ever having been in the haven... or based on the fact that they don't think it is necessary or affordable for them, personally.

 

i've been in sales and customer service in some capacity or another for most of my adult life. and one of the most important things we teach sales reps is not to sell out of their own pocket. in other words, just because you don't see value in the product or service... or because you can't personally justify the cost for yourself... that doesn't mean that others won't find value in the product and be willing to purchase it. and spend money on amenities and features you find repulsive, distasteful or of little value.

 

3 hours ago, midgetcoach said:

Hi UK, just wondering what game or games are you getting comped on ?

 

i play mostly video poker, with some slot machines here and there, no table games. i've written other posts in other threads about what it takes to get a comped cabin through the NCL's casino at sea program or  a discounted fare. there are a lot of misunderstandings about this... it reminds me a lot of the haven discussion here. those that don't gamble insist that somebody must be losing THOUSANDS of dollars in order to get a "free" cruise, but that's not the way it works.

 

3 hours ago, cruiseny4life said:

Five minutes later, milk man is back for his milk, and he's expressing his concern...

 

yes, but he'd be doing exactly the same thing in cagney's, at the go-karts, in american diner or while playing "deal or no deal." entitled jerks are entitled jerks everywhere they go.

 

it's about the person, not the haven.

[MrsTocko]

There are entitled people everywhere on cruises that is for sure. I know that not everyone that stays in the Haven are jerks, they are out in the gen pop as well.  and I should re-qualify my statement omitting the haven label in general.  I have witnessed MORE of the entitled jerks, first proclaiming "Im in the Haven" or "Im Platinum/Diamond...." They make themselves stand out even more.

 

We have experienced the Breakfast/lunch in moderno/cagney's, and have experienced and used the privilege of the concierge service. The things I have overheard people saying to the crew was appalling. The tone too...

 

But I have also witnessed it in the MDR.  Where I end up apologizing for complete strangers because people are...entitled.

 

"Vegans/vegetarians" who complain about the options, but dont pre-order their meals. Adult offspring traveling with parents who then have mom and dad advocate (loudly and rudely) for them on the lack of options. Then pouting because you "can't" eat anything.  There are things you can order and then pre-order going forward (instead of the yelling/pouting every meal).  If it is a health related dietary restriction vs. a preference, you can bet that I am taking the 2 seconds to fill out the special assist form. (These same people I witnessed their behavior in the breakfast/lunch at cagney's/moderno)

 

The ones that complain about the "$2 chuck" or "swill" that is offered with the FAS package...if you dont like it, then upgrade your package to the plus, or pay out of pocket, or pick something else.

 

We did bid on haven room/DOS on the last cruise we did, but didn't get it. We tend to want to stay midship (I get seasick/motion sick).  We have the bands and pills, and didnt need any of them this last time (despite a couple days that were pretty rough).  A lot of the haven rooms I have seen in my exhaustive pre-cruise ship research - are forward, and far forward...so that too creates a pause...

Edited August 3, 2022 by MrsTocko

[MrsTocko]

18 minutes ago, UKstages said:

i play mostly video poker, with some slot machines here and there, no table games. i've written other posts in other threads about what it takes to get a comped cabin through the NCL's casino at sea program or  a discounted fare. there are a lot of misunderstandings about this... it reminds me a lot of the haven discussion here. those that don't gamble insist that somebody must be losing THOUSANDS of dollars in order to get a "free" cruise, but that's not the way it works.

 

I am going to go searching for those threads....I am in the we dont gamble - you have to be losing thousands group...IF we gamble, it is like $20 in a slot machine....so probable still not enough...but if I can learn anything that will help get me a heavily discounted Haven experience, I think it might be worth a shot.

[DrSea]

18 hours ago, MrsTocko said:

I get the contradictions in my statement.  I think what turns us off of The Haven the most, is a the cost.  though if I may at some point bid on a haven, we just dont have it at time of booking or during the bidding as a rule.  Havent ever been in a Haven stateroom, but the common areas that I have seen are not worth double and triple the price of my balcony. The second part that turns us off is the entitled attitude of some (I know not all) of the people that book in the Haven.  For the most part, we want to be as far away from them as possible. The entitled ones are the louder complainers, and that is what we hear.  I heard a haven guy complaining that he and his girlfriend were very disappointed in irritated that the ship hit some rough waters the night before. THAT is what I hear more off, and what puts us off. All of that said, we still want to try it at some point...

For us, being on the cruise itself is a luxury. Having a plate of food brought tome that I dont have to cook...or clean up the kitchen afterwards...that is luxury to me. I don't want to fight my way to a food station to get a plate of food, then to find a seat, trolling through the garden cafe scoping out the tables trying to guess if someone is done or not.  That is not luxurious to me.  If my day warrants that the buffet is the best choice due excursion departure times or whatever, of course we do it.  I just really dont enjoy it.  Not the food or the crew, just the concept itself.  Embarkation day is usually Buffet. DH loves the crepe station on the smaller ships for evening snack.

We dont even do the free continental breakfast that EVERYONE can order through room service. Once we get up, we are up, lets start our day and go eat.  We dont want to snack on breakfast foods. so for us to ask a butler to go get for us...it is wasted on US, we would just go get it ourselves.  As a rule we ask very little of our room steward as it is.  Towel animals, pool towels (to use as bath towels), empty the fridge, this last time we also asked for ice for ice packs.  That is the extent of our asks.  We tip at the start (smaller - $20) and then a thank you at the end ($50). Plus whatever they get in the DSC.

 

But that is why we love cruising - we make it ALL work for US.  It is flexible enough to fit everyone's OWN idea of the perfect vacation.

 

And this is also why I love this topic.  Im not complaining (though it sounds like it), just stating my "unpopular" opinion...We are all in control of our vacations, it is what we make it.  The things out of our control, are just that, out of our control.  Being nice, and understanding will get you A LOT further when things DO go wrong (as they often do), then being mean, demanding and nasty.

Not to pile on, but this very much reminds me of the fox and the sour grapes. Try the Haven. If it's not for you, ok. But don't poo poo something just bc you can't afford it. 

 

I have stayed in the Haven. My unpopular opinion is that I prefer the packed nature of the main pool. The Haven pool can be too quiet (when kids aren't running around). The main pool has things going on. It's much more liver and more fun for me. I like the loud music and want to meet people as I am in my early 30s. During the restart, the pools were frequently empty, like it was on the Haven. It's no fun to be at the pool/hot tub all by yourself. 

[tetleytea]

1 hour ago, MrsTocko said:

I am going to go searching for those threads....I am in the we dont gamble - you have to be losing thousands group...IF we gamble, it is like $20 in a slot machine....so probable still not enough...but if I can learn anything that will help get me a heavily discounted Haven experience, I think it might be worth a shot.

"it reminds me a lot of the haven discussion here. those that don't gamble insist that somebody must be losing THOUSANDS of dollars in order to get a "free" cruise, but that's not the way it works."

 

I am interested how that is not how it works, too?    The slots pay, what?  40 cents on the dollar?   The principle of gambling is that somehow you are going to beat those odds, yet the principle of customer loyalty works diametrically opposed to that:   it pays per play, which means the statistical law of averages kicks in.  So yes:  you stick $10k in the slots, you get $4k back, which means you paid $6k for your loyalty.   And the law of averages says your standard deviation won't be too far off from that.

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by tetleytea

[hernando52]

I have enjoyed the last several posts immensely.  We have nothing against the Haven and the Haven guests and maybe someday we'll win a bid to get to experience it personally.  Years ago we had to make a choice....take a couple of cruises in the Haven (or an a luxury cruise line), or take several cruises in a NCL(or RCCL) non-Haven stateroom.  Because we only have a certain amount of money in the retirement account for play, we decided that we wanted to see a lot of destinations and we could be quite happy in a regular room.  Once in a while we have gotten upgraded to a mini-suite and that was wonderful!  Heck, while our house was being built in FL many years ago, we lived in our RV camper with two large dogs.  It was cramped, but life was good because we finally were retired!!  But, we simply cannot afford the Haven! 

We have run into the boors out in the general public on the ships...."Steerage" or "Haven"...we don't know...We have heard reference to steerage more than once.  We have witnessed the verbal abuse of the crew...the entitled seem to be everywhere, land or sea.  We just try to focus on us and enjoying cruising.  We feel pampered...no cooking, cleaning, making beds or reusing towels!!  We wake up in a new destination when we get up in the morning...for us, it is a dream come true.  We can eat, drink, and be entertained to our hearts' content.  Could it be better...of course it could....but it also could get a lot worse!!  Cross your fingers for us that maybe we'll win a bid some time!!

[midgetcoach]

7 minutes ago, tetleytea said:

The slots pay, what?  40 cents on the dollar? 

Normal slot pay out is around 90%.  Not sure about cruise ships, but I would think the minimum would be around 85%.

 

11 minutes ago, tetleytea said:

I am interested how that is not how it works, too?

Casinos are based on the math. Playing to the math will always end with a loss.  Winning at the casino is being able to read and follow the trends.

[tetleytea]

1 minute ago, midgetcoach said:

Casinos are based on the math. Playing to the math will always end with a loss.  Winning at the casino is being able to read and follow the trends.

 

Card-counting is playing to the math?   The casinos countered that by using infinite shoes?

 

[midgetcoach]

1 minute ago, tetleytea said:

Card-counting is playing to the math? 

NO, not talking about anything like that at all.  A trend in a casino would be the direction a game is going. At times there could be a downward trend, a upward trend and you may refer to when a game is going back and forth as choppy. Its knowing how to read these trends. Being able to stay in the game and take advantage of the upward ones. 

[complawyer]

drsea. you're in the your 30's, im in my mid 70's and therein lies the difference. i dont want to be around a bunch of screaming kids, 100's of other sun bathers, loud deafening music, or anything else offered by the main poolside.

 

when i was your age it was cool. now i would much rather have the haven pool and jaccuzzi with only a few people present, curl up on one of the lounge chairs with my kindle and a glass of scotch, and just chill.

 

i dont book a haven to be "pampered" i try (and hopefully succeed) at not being to demanding, i tip whenever/whoever is helping me, be it the bartender, the haven poolside waiter, the maitre'd or haven hostess.  at our age, my wife and i are cruising just for the joy of being on the ship. the haven just ads a little more charm to the experience

 

i hope you remember this when you reach your 70's

[tetleytea]

15 minutes ago, midgetcoach said:

NO, not talking about anything like that at all.  A trend in a casino would be the direction a game is going. At times there could be a downward trend, a upward trend and you may refer to when a game is going back and forth as choppy. Its knowing how to read these trends. Being able to stay in the game and take advantage of the upward ones. 

 

I would require more convincing, myself.  The math says the odds of rolling a 7 are 1 in 6 and the odds of boxcars are 1 in 36.   The second time you roll the dice, your odds of rolling a 7 are 1 in 6 and boxcars are still 1 in 36.    The previous roll of the dice has no bearing on that.   If there truly is such a thing as "hot" dice, then some sort of scam must be going on.   If this is some sort of cat-and-mouse game between the house and the gamblers each trying to con each other, that would explain it.  

[DrSea]

2 minutes ago, complawyer said:

drsea. you're in the your 30's, im in my mid 70's and therein lies the difference. i dont want to be around a bunch of screaming kids, 100's of other sun bathers, loud deafening music, or anything else offered by the main poolside.

 

when i was your age it was cool. now i would much rather have the haven pool and jaccuzzi with only a few people present, curl up on one of the lounge chairs with my kindle and a glass of scotch, and just chill.

 

i dont book a haven to be "pampered" i try (and hopefully succeed) at not being to demanding, i tip whenever/whoever is helping me, be it the bartender, the haven poolside waiter, the maitre'd or haven hostess.  at our age, my wife and i are cruising just for the joy of being on the ship. the haven just ads a little more charm to the experience

 

i hope you remember this when you reach your 70's

I understand and I'll remember. It's why I mentioned my age in the post. Different strokes for different folks. I get the appeal of quieter places. But I am just not at that point in my life. I work with some people who are around your age and see where they are coming from. 

[MrsTocko]

54 minutes ago, DrSea said:

But don't poo poo something just bc you can't afford it. 

Not poo pooing it BECAUSE I cant afford it.  Though it is a contributing factor.  But I HAVE been in the common areas of the haven amenities, and IMO it is NOT worth the added cost.  So for ME to go to the expense of booking a Haven, when there is a 90% chance I wont be using the Haven facilities, that is not a sound investment. I will at some point indeed try the haven.  Just not in the vacation wallet for now.  The rest of the contributing factors for not booking the Haven is that I have witnessed too many "I'm in the Haven" before a crew member or other guest gets ripped a new one for displeasing the Haven guest.  I want to be as far away as possible from them.  I know that the entitled people are EVERYWHERE...but I choose to not put myself in a situation where the chances of encountering them and the entitles attitude increases exponentially.

 

Make Sense?

[complawyer]

if you go to any casino anywhere with the expectation of beating the house, you're better off going to either the show, a bar, or to sleep.

 

ive laughed at many people talking about their so called "system(s)". ive tried to point out that the billion dollar hotels built on the las vegas strip are thanks to the many gamblers and their system.

 

i go and sit at the blackjack table or texas hold 'em table just to play. if i win great, if i lose i go to bed

[MrsTocko]

Just now, complawyer said:

if you go to any casino anywhere with the expectation of beating the house, you're better off going to either the show, a bar, or to sleep.

 

ive laughed at many people talking about their so called "system(s)". ive tried to point out that the billion dollar hotels built on the las vegas strip are thanks to the many gamblers and their system.

 

i go and sit at the blackjack table or texas hold 'em table just to play. if i win great, if i lose i go to bed

We go to Vegas for the getting away, not the gambling.  We rarely will gamble.  Maybe take $40 each for the weekend.  when it gone it gone. if we win anything, cash out and count ourselves lucky.  

[tetleytea]

2 minutes ago, complawyer said:

i go and sit at the blackjack table or texas hold 'em table just to play. if i win great, if i lose i go to bed

If you're a comp lawyer, a good winning strategy might be to find the most unsafe behaviors you can think of that could likely get the dealer hurt.   And give them your card.   🙂