Will business prevail?? Why NOT Florida?

[soapbxking]

First, no politics, just wondering why.....  I see that Carnival has opened up to unvaxxed, while Royal has not opened up ports in Florida like they have in California and Galveston?  Anyone know why and when this should/will change?  I see Carnival doubled its bookings yesterday...think Royal will see this and quickly move to open Florida??

[firefly333]

So why even ask if it has to do with florida if not political? Rcl hasnt changed for calif either. 

[flamingos]

RCI is sailing mostly full already.

[twangster]

Both Carnival and NCL have buried in their policies verbiage to the effect "guests are subject to local destination regulations".

 

What neither are saying is what will happen to guests who book and don't meet local destination requirements at time of boarding.

 

The Bahamas remains a key component and it was the Bahamas that started the vaccine requirement back in August and September of 2021 when Royal was trying to let unvaccinated cruise.  However there are also a few other destinations in play.  These destinations are in the Eastern Caribbean where Texas and Los Angeles cruises don't go so it has the effect that only Florida home port cruises are impacted.

 

It appears to me that NCL and Carnival are gambling that the Bahamas will remove their regulations any day now but they are burying verbiage to protect themselves in case the Bahamas drags their feet more.  As a consumer that should concern anyone who doesn't meet "local destinations requirements".

 

Royal's approach continues to be they will relax requirements once the destinations have relaxed requirements.  

 

It's easy to glance at headlines and cast shade on Royal.   In reality Royal's approach is more transparent and consumer friendly in the long run.  They are not putting the onus on the guests to ensure they are compliant which will lead to bitter dissatisfaction for any guests who books NCL or Carnival but is denied boarding should it come to that. 

 

I have to think NCL and Carnival are both lobbying the Bahamas very hard at the moment as senior executives play chicken with the Bahamas.  Yet they placed CYA verbiage in their policy to protect themselves if the Bahamas doesn't flinch.  If it comes down to the wire and the Bahamas doesn't change their requirements it's their guests who don't meet the requirements that will lose.  

 

I might not like it but Royal is taking the better approach by sparing guests who don't meet local destination requirements.  They are not opening the floodgates only to potentially drown anyone who has jumped prematurely into the water.

[Starry Eyes]

Royal has opened Galveston and New Orleans in US market…not CA.  I do not think it is about Florida politics though I can appreciate if you just do not want a political discussion.
 

 I think these are a business strategy decisions by different companies near the end of a very difficult stretch.  Royal decided to move slower, probably to monitor the results, beginning with a couple home ports (thus relatively few ships) both generally sailing to Western Caribbean ports.  NCL and Carnival went further, faster.  If all goes perfectly the faster ones look a bit smarter, though Royal can alter their policy as soon as they are comfortable doing so.  
 

Edit: I’d also point out we are approaching peak hurricane season.  Thus the risk that ships need to re-route to different ports due to weather is greater.  Perhaps Royal wants to keep maximum re-routing flexibility during peak hurricane season by having passengers vaxxed and tested, in case that pleases some local authorities when trying to find new ports in a pinch.  Just a thought.
 

 

BTW, did Carnival corp change the policy for all its brands or just for Carnival itself?

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Starry Eyes

[soapbxking]

4 minutes ago, twangster said:

Both Carnival and NCL have buried in their policies verbiage to the effect "guests are subject to local destination regulations".

 

What neither are saying is what will happen to guests who book and don't meet local destination requirements at time of boarding.

 

The Bahamas remains a key component and it was the Bahamas that started the vaccine requirement back in August and September of 2021 when Royal was trying to let unvaccinated cruise.  However there are also a few other destinations in play.  These destinations are in the Eastern Caribbean where Texas and Los Angeles cruises don't go so it has the effect that only Florida home port cruises are impacted.

 

It appears to me that NCL and Carnival are gambling that the Bahamas will remove their regulations any day now but they are burying verbiage to protect themselves in case the Bahamas drags their feet more.  As a consumer that should concern anyone who doesn't meet "local destinations requirements".

 

Royal's approach continues to be they will relax requirements once the destinations have relaxed requirements.  

 

It's easy to glance at headlines and cast shade on Royal.   In reality Royal's approach is more transparent and consumer friendly in the long run.  They are not putting the onus on the guests to ensure they are compliant which will lead to bitter dissatisfaction for any guests who books NCL or Carnival but is denied boarding should it come to that. 

 

I have to think NCL and Carnival are both lobbying the Bahamas very hard at the moment as senior executives play chicken with the Bahamas.  Yet they placed CYA verbiage in their policy to protect themselves if the Bahamas doesn't flinch.  If it comes down to the wire and the Bahamas doesn't change their requirements it's their guests who don't meet the requirements that will lose.  

 

I might not like it but Royal is taking the better approach by sparing guests who don't meet local destination requirements.  They are not opening the floodgates only to potentially drown anyone who has jumped prematurely into the water.

I agree somewhat.  I am certain that Royal would love for all ports to open so as not to worry about these issues and sail and be happy.  I disagree that Carnival , at least, as I have read their verbage, is burying anything.  It is right there, not hidden, that local destinations canand will dictate their own rules.  That has always bene the issue, pre covid and certainly will post covid.  

You certainly ARE correct about the money 🙂  it always wins in the end. 🙂

[soapbxking]

46 minutes ago, Starry Eyes said:

Royal has opened Galveston and New Orleans in US market…not CA.  I do not think it is about Florida politics though I can appreciate if you just do not want a political discussion.
 

 I think these are a business strategy decisions by different companies near the end of a very difficult stretch.  Royal decided to move slower, probably to monitor the results, beginning with a couple home ports (thus relatively few ships) both generally sailing to Western Caribbean ports.  NCL and Carnival went further, faster.  If all goes perfectly the faster ones look a bit smarter, though Royal can alter their policy as soon as they are comfortable doing so.  
 

Edit: I’d also point out we are approaching peak hurricane season.  Thus the risk that ships need to re-route to different ports due to weather is greater.  Perhaps Royal wants to keep maximum re-routing flexibility during peak hurricane season by having passengers vaxxed and tested, in case that pleases some local authorities when trying to find new ports in a pinch.  Just a thought.
 

 

BTW, did Carnival corp change the policy for all its brands or just for Carnival itself?

 

Yeah, i read wrong and California was not included.  I dont want a political discussion, because the CC rules forbid them, so i wanted to let that be known so this would not be shut down.  I ask about Florida, because i am scheduled to sail out of PC in February, THAT is why this is Florida specific 🙂

[orville99]

1 hour ago, soapbxking said:

I see Carnival doubled its bookings yesterday..

Actually, what Carnival said to the analyst community this week was that new bookings this month exceeded the number of new bookings in the same month in 2019. Not entirely sure where "doubled" originated.

[soapbxking]

Just now, orville99 said:

Actually, what Carnival said to the analyst community this week was that new bookings this month exceeded the number of new bookings in the same month in 2019. Not entirely sure where "doubled" originated.

no idea to be honest, heard on on a cruise news source. but i am sure all lines are doing well considering most are done with the hype and wanna travel 🙂

[smokeybandit]

Like twangster said, Carnival and NCL are hedging their bets. While their bets will likely pay off, RC is in a bit better position financially to wait it out another month or so.

Edited August 18, 2022 by smokeybandit

[soapbxking]

9 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Like twangster said, Carnival and NCL are hedging their bets. While their bets will likely pay off, RC is in a bit better position financially to wait it out another month or so.

i am good with a month or so 🙂  haha  I dont sail til February, BUT full payment is due in October, so as long as they do it before then haha 🙂

[Starry Eyes]

35 minutes ago, soapbxking said:

i am good with a month or so 🙂  haha  I dont sail til February, BUT full payment is due in October, so as long as they do it before then haha 🙂

I hope everything is sorted out soon.

 

You could look at “cancel for any reason” insurance.  You’d have protection against policy changes as well as the all the other things that could come along.

[firefly333]

1 hour ago, orville99 said:

Actually, what Carnival said to the analyst community this week was that new bookings this month exceeded the number of new bookings in the same month in 2019. Not entirely sure where "doubled" originated.

I heard doubled since 2019 myself on maybe it was CNBC. I could google it but wouldnt help. Prices are high on carnival out of Galveston.. not booking when jubilee costs more than harmony same week. Harmony wins but I'm watching prices on both. 

[orville99]

25 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

I heard doubled since 2019 myself on maybe it was CNBC. I could google it but wouldnt help. Prices are high on carnival out of Galveston.. not booking when jubilee costs more than harmony same week. Harmony wins but I'm watching prices on both. 

CNBC and Bloomberg reported Carnival's statement that they experienced a one day comparison of bookings between 8/15/22, and 8/15/2019 that was "almost doubled" on the day that they dropped their testing requirements, and never said that represented a sustainable doubling trend in bookings.

Edited August 18, 2022 by orville99

[Finnsmom13]

Expect sailings from Los Angeles CA are included 

[Finnsmom13]

3 hours ago, soapbxking said:

First, no politics, just wondering why.....  I see that Carnival has opened up to unvaxxed, while Royal has not opened up ports in Florida like they have in California and Galveston?  Anyone know why and when this should/will change?  I see Carnival doubled its bookings yesterday...think Royal will see this and quickly move to open Florida??

I've seen a lot being about the eastern Caribbean being an issue however it's annoying to me as my itinerary contains all fully open ports. Why they can allow a sailing to grand cayman with the unjabbed remaining aboard but not others is absurd at this point.  

If I get on and we reroute and I can't get off the ship that should be my risk to take. 

Celebrity Canada site is now showing all us ports but when you check from the US site it's specific ports only - who cares if you are an American or Canadian if you depart from the same place?? Makes no sense at all

[prmssk]

Carnival and NCL’s changes don’t go into effect until next month likely because they are still working with some of the Caribbean islands that still have requirements. This isn’t a Florida issue. It’s an issue with the ports that many Florida based cruises visit. 
 

There is still time for Royal to change their protocols and we also may see NCL and Carnival come out with clarifications that include specific itineraries that still require testing and/vaccines. 

[Finnsmom13]

2 hours ago, soapbxking said:

Yeah, i read wrong and California was not included.  I dont want a political discussion, because the CC rules forbid them, so i wanted to let that be known so this would not be shut down.  I ask about Florida, because i am scheduled to sail out of PC in February, THAT is why this is Florida specific 🙂

You were not wrong LA is one of the ports included 

[Cruising89143]

3 hours ago, soapbxking said:

Yeah, i read wrong and California was not included.  I dont want a political discussion, because the CC rules forbid them, so i wanted to let that be known so this would not be shut down.  I ask about Florida, because i am scheduled to sail out of PC in February, THAT is why this is Florida specific 🙂

Yes, Los Angeles/San Pedro did in fact change. 

[twangster]

5 hours ago, prmssk said:

Carnival and NCL’s changes don’t go into effect until next month likely because they are still working with some of the Caribbean islands that still have requirements. This isn’t a Florida issue. It’s an issue with the ports that many Florida based cruises visit. 
 

There is still time for Royal to change their protocols and we also may see NCL and Carnival come out with clarifications that include specific itineraries that still require testing and/vaccines. 

 

While NCL and CCL's new policies don't go into effect until early September people are booking cruises now based on these new policies allowing them to sail when they couldn't previously.   So what happens to them IF these two lines have to update their protocols and reinstate a vax requirement?

 

[deliver42]

I'd rather go with their current protocols and if they have to change, so be it. It's still better than what  Royal is offering, which I have no interest in. I'm hoping they get with the program.

 

[firefly333]

6 hours ago, orville99 said:

CNBC and Bloomberg reported Carnival's statement that they experienced a one day comparison of bookings between 8/15/22, and 8/15/2019 that was "almost doubled" on the day that they dropped their testing requirements, and never said that represented a sustainable doubling trend in bookings.

Lol I didnt say it was sustainable. I said CNBC commentator mentioned it. I also mentioned jubilee still being built has higher prices than I'm willing to pay, but I'll keep watching ... lol but thanks. Carnival prices out of Galveston have been sticky on the high side for the few I really want. I'd like more of their journey cruises but I'm on the cheapest, and price is now up to starting almost $2600 for a 1A upper and lower. The other 3 are priced even higher. I'll hope for a last minute rate, but doubtful. Unlike rcl, carnival has a early saver rate where you can get price drops after final payment so they dont reduce last minute like rcl. Jubilee about $1200 and up for a deck 1 inside. Price been firm for months on the good ones. Carnival also has said their prices have firmed up. 

 

I check prices almost daily rather than quoting some article. I also still am of the belief rcl is losing business to carnival at ports they compete head to head. People dont want to pretest. Summer both are sailing full but going forward rcl imo is losing business. 

[mickeychicky]

9 hours ago, twangster said:

Both Carnival and NCL have buried in their policies verbiage to the effect "guests are subject to local destination regulations".

 

What neither are saying is what will happen to guests who book and don't meet local destination requirements at time of boarding.

 

The Bahamas remains a key component and it was the Bahamas that started the vaccine requirement back in August and September of 2021 when Royal was trying to let unvaccinated cruise.  However there are also a few other destinations in play.  These destinations are in the Eastern Caribbean where Texas and Los Angeles cruises don't go so it has the effect that only Florida home port cruises are impacted.

 

It appears to me that NCL and Carnival are gambling that the Bahamas will remove their regulations any day now but they are burying verbiage to protect themselves in case the Bahamas drags their feet more.  As a consumer that should concern anyone who doesn't meet "local destinations requirements".

 

Royal's approach continues to be they will relax requirements once the destinations have relaxed requirements.  

 

It's easy to glance at headlines and cast shade on Royal.   In reality Royal's approach is more transparent and consumer friendly in the long run.  They are not putting the onus on the guests to ensure they are compliant which will lead to bitter dissatisfaction for any guests who books NCL or Carnival but is denied boarding should it come to that. 

 

I have to think NCL and Carnival are both lobbying the Bahamas very hard at the moment as senior executives play chicken with the Bahamas.  Yet they placed CYA verbiage in their policy to protect themselves if the Bahamas doesn't flinch.  If it comes down to the wire and the Bahamas doesn't change their requirements it's their guests who don't meet the requirements that will lose.  

 

I might not like it but Royal is taking the better approach by sparing guests who don't meet local destination requirements.  They are not opening the floodgates only to potentially drown anyone who has jumped prematurely into the water.

NCL's website says specifically that the only thing The Bahamas are requiring is tests for the unvaccinated.  If you call the Bahamas Ministry of Tourism office ( I called the one in Florida) they will tell you each cruise line has their own protocol and NCL's protocol is a test within 3 days.  Royal wither hasn't negotiated terms with the Bahamas or they have chosen to NOT allow unvaxed yet from certain states.

 

Age	Vaccinated	Unvaccinated
< 2 years	Nothing Required.	Nothing Required.
≥ 2 years	Proof of completed series of one-dose or two-dose vaccination regimen at embarkation.	Provide proof of one of the following: 1. Negative COVID-19 antigen test within three days of the embarkation date 2. NAAT test (i.e., PCR) within three days of embarkation date 3. COVID-19 Recovery Certificate*

[hal2008]

11 hours ago, orville99 said:

Actually, what Carnival said to the analyst community this week was that new bookings this month exceeded the number of new bookings in the same month in 2019. Not entirely sure where "doubled" originated.

 

Lol. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by hal2008

[not-enough-cruising]

12 hours ago, Starry Eyes said:

Royal has opened Galveston and New Orleans in US market…not CA.  I do not think it is about Florida politics though I can appreciate if you just do not want a political discussion.
 

 I think these are a business strategy decisions by different companies near the end of a very difficult stretch.  Royal decided to move slower, probably to monitor the results, beginning with a couple home ports (thus relatively few ships) both generally sailing to Western Caribbean ports.  NCL and Carnival went further, faster.  If all goes perfectly the faster ones look a bit smarter, though Royal can alter their policy as soon as they are comfortable doing so.  
 

Edit: I’d also point out we are approaching peak hurricane season.  Thus the risk that ships need to re-route to different ports due to weather is greater.  Perhaps Royal wants to keep maximum re-routing flexibility during peak hurricane season by having passengers vaxxed and tested, in case that pleases some local authorities when trying to find new ports in a pinch.  Just a thought.
 

 

BTW, did Carnival corp change the policy for all its brands or just for Carnival itself?

 

San Pedro / Los Angeles has indeed changed, just like Galveston and New Orleans.