Princess Loyalty Credit

[caribill]

8 minutes ago, ldtr said:

You are ignoring the second part of that change that occurred at that time

 

Internet minutes removed

 

Internet discount, and 10% discount on excursions added.

 

The combination clearly yields more value if one takes any ship excursions. 

 

Discount is considerably more valuable if one goes with multiple devices.

 

While one can come up with situations that indicates that it is a decreases in value for them, others can show considerable benefit by the change.  

 

Benefits have gone from getting something at no cost to only getting something if you spend more money with Princess.

o Don't purchase photographs = no new benefit

o Don't purchase Spa services = no new benefit

o Don't purchase Princess shore excursions = no new benefit

 

Sort of like the infamous Princess coupon book -- spend money with Princess and get a discount.  I have never seen a post saying how that coupon book is a great thing to have.

 

[jwattle]

34 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

Benefits have gone from getting something at no cost to only getting something if you spend more money with Princess.

o Don't purchase photographs = no new benefit

o Don't purchase Spa services = no new benefit

o Don't purchase Princess shore excursions = no new benefit

 

Sort of like the infamous Princess coupon book -- spend money with Princess and get a discount.  I have never seen a post saying how that coupon book is a great thing to have.

 

We like it ☺️

[billco]

38 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

Benefits have gone from getting something at no cost to only getting something if you spend more money with Princess.

o Don't purchase photographs = no new benefit

o Don't purchase Spa services = no new benefit

o Don't purchase Princess shore excursions = no new benefit

 

Sort of like the infamous Princess coupon book -- spend money with Princess and get a discount.  I have never seen a post saying how that coupon book is a great thing to have.

 

We have done 5 great cruises since September 2021. The one benefit that has not changed is the service we have received from the staff we have come in direct contact with including stewards, dining room, and bar staff. That has been amazing. That people continue to whine about losing their piddling little benefits is beyond me considering the challenges the cruise lines have dealt with to provide a great cruis experience.

[caribill]

17 minutes ago, billco said:

We have done 5 great cruises since September 2021. The one benefit that has not changed is the service we have received from the staff we have come in direct contact with including stewards, dining room, and bar staff. That has been amazing.

 

Great service from the staff is not a loyalty benefit.

 

It apples all passengers and, yes, it is a great part of why Princess is still a cruise line of choice for many.

[Guest ldtr]

2 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Benefits have gone from getting something at no cost to only getting something if you spend more money with Princess.

o Don't purchase photographs = no new benefit

o Don't purchase Spa services = no new benefit

o Don't purchase Princess shore excursions = no new benefit

 

Sort of like the infamous Princess coupon book -- spend money with Princess and get a discount.  I have never seen a post saying how that coupon book is a great thing to have.

 

You used the plural form (benefits) instead of benefit when the only one that I can think of that made that change was the internet minutes.  Which did go from a limited number of free minutes to a discount on unlimited and a discount on excursions.  

 

Most  of the benefits such as laundry, minibar, boarding priority, etc.  still do not require any purchases.  

 

Surprised you do not include that you have to book a cruise and pay for it before you get any benefits.

 

Might tie into that long time cruisers that generate only the minimum revenue might just be less valued by the cruise lines than those that do generate more revenue.

 

 

[caribill]

59 minutes ago, ldtr said:

You used the plural form (benefits) instead of benefit when the only one that I can think of that made that change was the internet minutes.  Which did go from a limited number of free minutes to a discount on unlimited and a discount on excursions. 

 

Reason for plural:

a) Loss of loyalty OBC after 20 cruises

b) Loss of extra benefits on 50th cruise, 75th cruise, etc.

 

These were benefits for those really loyal to Princess.

[billco]

46 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

Reason for plural:

a) Loss of loyalty OBC after 20 cruises

b) Loss of extra benefits on 50th cruise, 75th cruise, etc.

 

These were benefits for those really loyal to Princess.

If people are so loyal to Princess why don’t they shut up about losing their benefits and show some real loyalty by booking more cruises, instead of yapping about going to other cruise lines.

[Ken the cruiser]

2 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Reason for plural:

a) Loss of loyalty OBC after 20 cruises

b) Loss of extra benefits on 50th cruise, 75th cruise, etc.

 

These were benefits for those really loyal to Princess.

Could it be Princess is positioning itself to eventually eliminate counting the “number” of cruises to only counting “days” as a means to measure loyalty? Just a thought.

[cruising.mark.uk]

2 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Reason for plural:

a) Loss of loyalty OBC after 20 cruises

b) Loss of extra benefits on 50th cruise, 75th cruise, etc.

 

These were benefits for those really loyal to Princess.

Methinks that you are not actually unhappy at all about the perceived loss of value from the Princess product (given that there isn't one - I know that I get a whole lot more bang for my buck with them now than I did when I first cruised with Princess 20 years ago).  Your whole gripe seems to be that they don't treat you as 'special' enough.  

 

As a shareholder, I think they've probably made exactly the right decision in doing away with / reducing these 'loyalty' benefits.  They are a business, not a charity.  I'm guessing that those who cruise most are the demographic from whom they gain the least revenue - just paying for the basic product with none of the add-ons on which they make most profit and which the less experienced cruisers (and especially families) purchase.  So, in business terms, they should actually disincentivise loyalty and maybe even charge those who have cruised frequently with them base fares higher than new cruisers, who will offset a lower base fare by contributing more to the revenue stream in extras.  If they can attract young new customers, they may then keep them for many more years given (as is very evident on this thread) that, however, much people whine and moan about how much worse everything is now than it used to be and / or how green the grass is elsewhere, there is very little evidence that any of them actually have the courage of their convictions and take their business elsewhere to their 'nirvana' cruise line that is still operating like it's the 1990s and will treat them as sufficiently 'special' once they've wracked up 100 cruises.

 

Meanwhile, the rest of us can continue to enjoy a really good quality product at a reasonable price.

[VibeGuy]

Princess absolutely stated that nights rather than sailings would drive recognition when they quietly discontinued Loyalty Commend OBC. 
 

And then they promptly discontinued night-based milestone recognition. 
 

Extraordinary times, blah, blah, blah.   It’s a handy pretext to align the relatively generous Princess benefits with the historically less generous benefits from other Carnivore brands.   Unlike lodging and airline programs where the points held by members are liabilities accounted for on the books, none of the Carnival-umbrella programs actually generate a liability that needs to be booked.  Everything they spend on loyalty benefits gets taken as a marketing expense or promotional discount on the booking at hand.  Nothing is promised for the future.  
 

I know who was on the ships for a year into the restart.  It wasn’t young families new to cruising.  While many passengers were admittedly burning off canceled-cruise FCCs and bribe money,  new money from people who like the product brought ships back on line, got experienced staff and crew back on the job and demonstrated that the business was still viable.   So naturally, the best thing to do was eliminate the notion of future benefits for sailing.  
 

The grass isn’t particularly greener elsewhere.  But truly top-tier/hundreds-of-nights loyalty is demonstrably less rewarded today than it was at the shutdown.  
 

 

 

[Guest ldtr]

32 minutes ago, VibeGuy said:

Princess absolutely stated that nights rather than sailings would drive recognition when they quietly discontinued Loyalty Commend OBC. 
 

And then they promptly discontinued night-based milestone recognition. 
 

Extraordinary times, blah, blah, blah.   It’s a handy pretext to align the relatively generous Princess benefits with the historically less generous benefits from other Carnivore brands.   Unlike lodging and airline programs where the points held by members are liabilities accounted for on the books, none of the Carnival-umbrella programs actually generate a liability that needs to be booked.  Everything they spend on loyalty benefits gets taken as a marketing expense or promotional discount on the booking at hand.  Nothing is promised for the future.  
 

I know who was on the ships for a year into the restart.  It wasn’t young families new to cruising.  While many passengers were admittedly burning off canceled-cruise FCCs and bribe money,  new money from people who like the product brought ships back on line, got experienced staff and crew back on the job and demonstrated that the business was still viable.   So naturally, the best thing to do was eliminate the notion of future benefits for sailing.  
 

The grass isn’t particularly greener elsewhere.  But truly top-tier/hundreds-of-nights loyalty is demonstrably less rewarded today than it was at the shutdown.  
 

 

 

While air lines and hotel programs may carry points that are a liability on their books, those programs and the points in them have been major drivers of revenue for those businesses, from their programs selling points points and the revenue they get from businesses, including credit card companies.  So the revenue they have generated from other ways of getting points other than  hotel stays or flights have generated far more revenue. In many ways the airlines and hotel company value customer loyalty for the branded credit cards they carry and the money they receive from those credit card companies for the points they sell them.

 

Those programs have pretty much all greatly devalued those points over the past several years.  While I have seen hotel and airline programs cut the value of their points by as much as 50%, have not seen the cruise lines cut their value by anywhere nearly as much.  

 

Would be interesting to see cruise lines go to a point based system as hotels and airlines have, though I doubt most long term cruise line passengers would appreciate the change.

[caribill]

1 hour ago, VibeGuy said:

The grass isn’t particularly greener elsewhere. 

 

 

True.

 

But when the grass is just as green and the itineraries are similar, then cost (which includes various benefits) can become the determining factor.

 

Many posts in the past comparing Princess with RCI, HAL, and Celebrity basically say they are about equivalent in the experience. Some things are better than others on each line, but overall they are not that different.

 

So as Princess builds larger and larger ships that are limited in what ports they can go to, itineraries are about the same as the competition.

 

So if booking a 7 day cruise that goes from south Florida to St. Thomas, St.Maarten and a private island (and Princess definitely does not have the best private island), why shouldn't cost (including various benefits) be a deciding factor?

 

Same can be said for Alaska itineraries and Mediterranean itineraries.

[caribill]

2 hours ago, VibeGuy said:

The grass isn’t particularly greener elsewhere.

 

Princess has also done its best to be like the competition instead of being better than the competition in other ways, and these changes were before the pandemic shutdown.

Examples:

 

o Princess shore excursions previously could be booked pre-cruise, but paid for at the end of the cruise. Princess has changed to require pre-payment just like the competition.

 

o Princess has changed their final payment times to be like the competition. Previously the final payment dates were closer to sailing than the competition.

 

o Princess used to allow a booking to be moved to a TA anytime before final payment. Princess changed this to a limited number of days after booking was made, just like the competition.

 

o Princess used to almost always have cabins ready for passengers when embarkation started. Princess has changed this to mostly not have cabins available for an hour or two after embarkation starts, just like the competition.

 

 

 

[VibeGuy]

If Princess wants to dumb everything down to 7NT Eastern and Western Caribbean sailings, some transcanals, 7NT Mexican Riviera and 7NT Alaska line haul and circle Seattle sailings, 15NT Hawaii and then maintain a small Europe and Asia program, then a rewarding loyalty program is going to be all the more critical, because most cruisers will only do those so many times.  (Disney Fanatics and aquatic snowbirds like myself notwithstanding).  I don’t quite feel demographically ready for HAL, but it’s the obvious home for us.  
 

Between being introduced to Princess as a kid (and Sitmar and Cunard - my aunt wasn’t particularly brand loyal and I wasn’t picking the line) and sort of heavily settling in with Princess around the turn of the century, I was a pretty big RCL fan.  They just shifted the hard product to megaships (their last appealing build was the Radiance class) and the soft product to a much more a la carte / less personal style that wasn’t how I enjoyed spending my more-limited vacation time.   Princess put the right ships in the right places and treated us well and kicked back some loyalty benefits.   
 

If hard product, soft product and loyalty program are the three legs of the stool my spend is balancing on, and they keep kicking at the loyalty one, the other two have to work a lot harder to keep 20, 30, 50, whatever nights flowing in (24 in 2021, 60 in 2022, currently 6 booked for 2023).  With our favorite ship spending 2023 on the west coast, it’s likely they’ll keep the spend but they’re taking “of course we’re sailing Princess” to “of course we’re sailing, it’s most likely Princess” and the next logical step after that is “of course we’re sailing, maybe it’s Princess”.  Wouldn’t it be nice to have some guests who are absolutely certain where their next vacation dollars are being spent?  Isn’t that the point of loyalty incentives?

[Roberto256]

9 hours ago, caribill said:

Sort of like the infamous Princess coupon book -- spend money with Princess and get a discount.  I have never seen a post saying how that coupon book is a great thing to have.

 

 

At least it changed, so there is no longer the endless begging here for the only coupon which had any value...

Which ... I think ... was a BOGO on coffee card.   But, that answer is hazy.

 

The annoyance from the endless begging is still very clear.

[caribill]

43 minutes ago, VibeGuy said:

 I don’t quite feel demographically ready for HAL, but it’s the obvious home for us.  
 

 

You might be surprised how the newer HAL ships do not have the same "older people" vibe that their older ships had.

 

Evening entertainment is in more venues than Princess and continues later than it does on Princess.

[MissP22]

3 minutes ago, Roberto256 said:

 

At least it changed, so there is no longer the endless begging here for the only coupon which had any value...

Which ... I think ... was a BOGO on coffee card.   But, that answer is hazy.

 

The annoyance from the endless begging is still very clear.

What about the BOGO coupon for the Specialty restaurant on the first night?

We sure miss that one. 

[caribill]

48 minutes ago, VibeGuy said:

 Wouldn’t it be nice to have some guests who are absolutely certain where their next vacation dollars are being spent?  Isn’t that the point of loyalty incentives?

 

That's why lessening of incentives cause the change from "I want to take a cruise, so let's see where Princess is going" to "I want to cruise in this area of the world, let's see which cruise lines go there."

[cruising.mark.uk]

1 hour ago, caribill said:

 

That's why lessening of incentives cause the change from "I want to take a cruise, so let's see where Princess is going" to "I want to cruise in this area of the world, let's see which cruise lines go there."

You write this as if it's a bad thing for Princess.   As a shareholder, I suspect the opposite is true.  

 

I would have thought that the point of any business is to maximise revenue for shareholders.  If loyalty incentives help maximise revenue, then they'll be introduced and extended or enhanced.  If, as I suspect is the case with cruise lines, they don't help maximise revenue because the most cruised pax are those who spend least, they'll be constrained, reduced and, eventually, removed.  If that incentivises those pax to look elsewhere, Princess will be able to target their marketing and advertising spend on passenger groups that will bring more revenue into the company.

[justafem]

2 hours ago, MissP22 said:

What about the BOGO coupon for the Specialty restaurant on the first night?

We sure miss that one. 

On a whim, I just looked at the current coupon book.  

 

The offer is buy specialty dining the first night, get a free bottle of house wine.  

 

And they took away the buy $50 get a free bear in the gift shop.  Not as though I need more bears, got 5 of them last cruise. Now it's a 15% discount, but only on non-sale items.  

[Ombud]

10 minutes ago, justafem said:

On a whim, I just looked at the current coupon book.  

 

The offer is buy specialty dining the first night, get a free bottle of house wine.  

 

And they took away the buy $50 get a free bear in the gift shop.  Not as though I need more bears, got 5 of them last cruise. Now it's a 15% discount, but only on non-sale items.  

Finally it sounds like its worded to benefit even solo cruisers!!

[MissP22]

2 hours ago, Ombud said:

Finally it sounds like its worded to benefit even solo cruisers!!

As long as you spend money in order to get it. 😉

[Ombud]

58 minutes ago, MissP22 said:

As long as you spend money in order to get it. 😉

I buy at least 1 specialty dinner anyway and now I get a bottle of wine! Its a win!! Before it was BOGO specialty dinner which did not benefit solos. Like i said:

3 hours ago, Ombud said:

Finally it sounds like its worded to benefit even solo cruisers!!

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Ombud

[PescadoAmarillo]

15 hours ago, ldtr said:

Might tie into that long time cruisers that generate only the minimum revenue might just be less valued by the cruise lines than those that do generate more revenue.

 

That is often said, and certainly Princess’s actions seem to back that up. But I think that both high spending, one or two cruises a year people and lower spending but faithful passengers are valuable. When we used to cruise for 4 or 5 months each year, it took no effort on Princess's part to market to us. They posted schedules, we booked, and had thousands of dollars on deposit with them at all times. We never got last minute flash deals; in fact we were willing to pay more to lock in cabins for months at a time, cabins that didn’t need to be resold time and time again. The only thing s we really didn’t spend money on were photos and the spa.  Excursions were booked depending on the itinerary (in Asia, in every port).  
 

If Princess can fill every cabin with first time, big spending cruisers, more power to them. But that is not the reality of their situation right now. Someone needs to fill those ships 24/7/365, not just during school breaks and holidays. 
 

14 hours ago, billco said:

If people are so loyal to Princess why don’t they shut up about losing their benefits and show some real loyalty by booking more cruises, instead of yapping about going to other cruise lines.

I thought a business relationship was a transactional one, not an emotional one.

[cruising.mark.uk]

2 hours ago, PescadoAmarillo said:

I thought a business relationship was a transactional one, not an emotional one.

It is.  So why do so many on here come over all emotional about what they perceive to be Princess' failure to recognise their loyalty?

Edited November 26, 2022 by cruising.mark.uk