Daily Service Charges are now officially out of hand

[papaflamingo]

9 hours ago, wayne_trisha said:

And then service goes in the toilet.

No it doesn't.  We've been mostly cruising on a line that includes all gratuities.  The service is EXCEPTIONAL!   The crew will literally "fall all over themselves" trying to please you.  If you go to a bar and ask for a particular alcohol and it's unavailable, there's a VERY good chance that after the next port stop your desired alcohol will be there.  If you want an Indian meal, you tell the Maitre 'd and within 48 hours you will have a complete Indian dinner just for you and your tablemates.   They place a bottle of your desired liquor in your cabin.  If the bottle nears empty a new bottle will be placed.  Oh yeah...EVERY crew member greets you with a smile. 

No extra gratuities are expected and many do not pay any.  But clearly there's something about the cruise line that keeps top employees in all categories. Likely a guaranteed salary that is industry competitive or leading. 

[A&L_Ont]

Considering this thread is about NCL actually raising their gratuities, there is a lot of bemoaning here on the RC board.

Edited December 10, 2022 by A&L_Ont

[nelblu]

This topic has been beaten to death.  No easy solution.  Either you tip or higher fares. 
 

On land tipping was in the 10%, then 15, 18 and now @ 20%. In some cases it’s 20+ as some folks tip on the whole bill rather than excluding state/local taxes. 
In addition, some restaurants will include a 2.5-3.5 % cc fee. 
 

Waiting for the “Chair Hogs” to make an entrance. 
 

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by nelblu

[Ocean Boy]

1 hour ago, A&L_Ont said:

Considering this thread is about NCL actually raising their gratuities, there is a lot of bemoaning here on the RC board.

That is because cruise line CEOs like playing follow the leader.

[nasa1974]

4 hours ago, FamilyCruiserUK said:

But what is considered "good service"?. Taking my order, getting it right, bringing it to my table, taking plates away and giving me the bill IMO is their basic job requirments. Just like a mcdonalds worker....for example yet who tips the fast food people?.  Now if they sort out problems, are polite and chatty and interact more then above then yes i will leave a tip. And thata my definition of a tip for service "above" the expected.

Most restaurants pay their servers below minimum wage and tips are part of their income. I will give my server cash as their tip. I don't like putting it on my credit card because I want to make sure they get the money.

[A&L_Ont]

13 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

That is because cruise line CEO's like playing follow the leader.

Agreed, however RC’s last one was in September. You’d think it was coming tomorrow at the rate of discussion here.
 

I think a more topical discussion of concern should be a possible fuel surcharge with the high price of it. The only difference, guests can’t go to GS and remove it. 

[Ocean Boy]

1 minute ago, A&L_Ont said:

Agreed, however RC’s last one was in September. You’d think it was coming tomorrow at the rate of discussion here.
 

I think a more topical discussion of concern should be a possible fuel surcharge with the high price of it. The only difference, guests can’t go to GS and remove it. 

God, the last time a fuel surcharge was rumored the discussion went on for weeks.🫥

[not-enough-cruising]

36 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

Agreed, however RC’s last one was in September. You’d think it was coming tomorrow at the rate of discussion here.
 

I think a more topical discussion of concern should be a possible fuel surcharge with the high price of it. The only difference, guests can’t go to GS and remove it. 

 

34 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

God, the last time a fuel surcharge was rumored the discussion went on for weeks.🫥

In 25 years, I have never been charged a fuel surcharge even once, and fuel cost throughout the time has certainly been higher than they are now
 

[A&L_Ont]

1 hour ago, not-enough-cruising said:

 

In 25 years, I have never been charged a fuel surcharge even once, and fuel cost throughout the time has certainly been higher than they are now
 

We had a couple with surcharges on Princess in the mid to late 2000s.

[ldubs]

6 hours ago, FamilyCruiserUK said:

But what is considered "good service"?. Taking my order, getting it right, bringing it to my table, taking plates away and giving me the bill IMO is their basic job requirments. Just like a mcdonalds worker....for example yet who tips the fast food people?.  Now if they sort out problems, are polite and chatty and interact more then above then yes i will leave a tip. And thata my definition of a tip for service "above" the expected.

 

It is not common here to tip fast food workers other than maybe the coin change in a tip jar, if one exists.   And, I would not argue that good service would be a basic job requirement.  

 

What we each describe points to the differences in accepted behavior in our respective countries.  

[ldubs]

3 hours ago, nasa1974 said:

Most restaurants pay their servers below minimum wage and tips are part of their income. I will give my server cash as their tip. I don't like putting it on my credit card because I want to make sure they get the money.

 

In my state restaurant workers are paid the state minimum wage before tips.  Our state minimum wage is about double the Federal minimum.   Either way, tips are counted as part of income, as they should be.   For most states tips are counted towards the required minimum wage obligation. 

 

Personally, I would not worry too much about a credit card tip being distributed to staff.  However, some states allow any card fees to be subtracted before distribution.  My state does not allow this.     

 

It is interesting that per American IRS rules, a "mandatory gratuity" must be treated as wages paid for tax purposes as opposed to a tip.  Mandatory gratuities are often added around here for parties of 6 or more in restaurants.    

Edited December 10, 2022 by ldubs

[DirtyDawg]

25 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

It is interesting that per American IRS rules, a "mandatory gratuity" must be treated as wages paid for tax purposes as opposed to a tip.  Mandatory gratuities are often added around here for parties of 6 or more in restaurants.    

Does the IRS treat tips differently vs. ordinary income? In Canada the CRA treats both the same.(Canada Revenue Agency) 

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by DirtyDawg

[ldubs]

4 hours ago, nelblu said:

This topic has been beaten to death.  No easy solution.  Either you tip or higher fares. 
 

On land tipping was in the 10%, then 15, 18 and now @ 20%. In some cases it’s 20+ as some folks tip on the whole bill rather than excluding state/local taxes. 
In addition, some restaurants will include a 2.5-3.5 % cc fee. 
 

Waiting for the “Chair Hogs” to make an entrance. 
 

 

 

With some exceptions, I tip on the total bill. More out of laziness than anything else.  The difference after subtracting sales tax is not worth the effort -- about $1.50 per $100.

 

If credit card fees are included, they should not be thought of as gratuities.  And they could be excluded from the amount to be tipped if wanted.   

[ldubs]

6 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

Does the IRS treat tips differently vs. ordinary income? In Canada the CRA treats both the same.(Canada Revenue Agency) 

 

 

For an employee it would all be income for tax purposes.  For the business' tax return, there are apparently different tax accounting rules for wages vs tips.       

[FamilyCruiserUK]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

 

It is not common here to tip fast food workers other than maybe the coin change in a tip jar, if one exists.   And, I would not argue that good service would be a basic job requirement.  

 

What we each describe points to the differences in accepted behavior in our respective countries.  

Yes i totally agree with you, apart from the the good service point. When i go to america i will of course tip, if i can figure out who to tip as its American culture and i am in your country so will abide by your laws and customs as should be for anywhere in the world, even if i find them different.

A cruise ship or RCL is not soley for americans or even registered in the US ( i believe)  therefor tips should continue to be optional or added to the base fare. 

[nelblu]

4 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

 

In 25 years, I have never been charged a fuel surcharge even once, and fuel cost throughout the time has certainly been higher than they are now
 

I had one but rd erased after I believe Florida Surf the cruise lines. It was a long time ago. 

[nelblu]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

 

 

With some exceptions, I tip on the total bill. More out of laziness than anything else.  The difference after subtracting sales tax is not worth the effort -- about $1.50 per $100.

 

If credit card fees are included, they should not be thought of as gratuities.  And they could be excluded from the amount to be tipped if wanted.   

1.50 here and a $1.50 there can account to a bunch of moneys. 
Do you recall the movie “The Office” where a programmer fixed the calculation if taxes and round up penny and after a while they millions deposited in a non company account. 
oennies add up.
 

During the pandemic Caesar’s casinos in Atlantic City when you cashed the ticket it at a cash machine would give you the paper funds but not the coins. The machine would give you a voucher for tha coins. The big question how many of these folks traipsed to the cashier and cash them. 
 

Someone must have complained because when I went to the casino last week, it asks if you want to donate to a listed charity.  This I don’t mind as the casino is not keeping the change. 

 

 

[ldubs]

30 minutes ago, FamilyCruiserUK said:

Yes i totally agree with you, apart from the the good service point. When i go to america i will of course tip, if i can figure out who to tip as its American culture and i am in your country so will abide by your laws and customs as should be for anywhere in the world, even if i find them different.

A cruise ship or RCL is not soley for americans or even registered in the US ( i believe)  therefor tips should continue to be optional or added to the base fare. 

 

Yes I agree that while suggested, they are optional.  Question is, is one making a good show of it by withholding tips for other than poor service.  My social norm would say a head shaking no.  Your's would say a perfectly acceptable yes, I think.  One of those culture clashes I guess.   

 

BTW, I'm OK with adding it to the base fare.  I think a lot of others, particularly those who reduce or withhold grats, would strongly object.   

[jeh10641]

On 12/8/2022 at 5:54 AM, Diver2014 said:

If you can't afford to tip, don't cruise.  Flames, anyone?

Thumbs down for your response and attitude.

[ldubs]

6 minutes ago, nelblu said:

1.50 here and a $1.50 there can account to a bunch of moneys. 
Do you recall the movie “The Office” where a programmer fixed the calculation if taxes and round up penny and after a while they millions deposited in a non company account. 
oennies add up.
 

 

 

I would need to eat our a whole lot more for that to happen! 😀    For us the difference could be less than rounding up to the dollar   🙂

 

We frequently have large family group outings where the bill is split after the fact.  Usually for treating out-of-town folk, B-days, etc.  Those are pretty large bills where the amount becomes more meaningful.   In those cases the tip included on the bill by the establishment is calc'd before tax.  

[ldubs]

30 minutes ago, nelblu said:

 

Someone must have complained because when I went to the casino last week, it asks if you want to donate to a listed charity.  This I don’t mind as the casino is not keeping the change. 

 

 

For credit cards charges some retail stores around here are giving an option to donate to charity by rounding up to the dollar.  I like that approach.   

[jeh10641]

On 12/8/2022 at 6:45 AM, Liljo22 said:

If you can afford to sail in the Haven, an extra $350 is not going to break the bank.  

I never cruise for less than 10 or 11 days, more likely 14 to 20 days. Multiply that times $40 or $50/day and it becomes sizeable.  I agree that fee should be incorporated in the cruise price and let the lines pay a living wage. I always pay extra tips to my cabin stewards(esses) and anybody else who gives me outstanding service aboard.

[not-enough-cruising]

11 minutes ago, jeh10641 said:

I never cruise for less than 10 or 11 days, more likely 14 to 20 days. Multiply that times $40 or $50/day and it becomes sizeable.  I agree that fee should be incorporated in the cruise price and let the lines pay a living wage. I always pay extra tips to my cabin stewards(esses) and anybody else who gives me outstanding service aboard.

The lines do pay a living wage, just not for living in the USA; which is appropriate

[footzz]

2 hours ago, DirtyDawg said:

Does the IRS treat tips differently vs. ordinary income? In Canada the CRA treats both the same.(Canada Revenue Agency) 

 

As far as thr IRS is concerned, it all comes down to the definition of a "tip" vs. "gratuity". The IRS disagrees with most dictionaries and encyclopedias definitions of the term "gratuity." Most resources define gratuity as a "tip" or "payment for services beyond an advertised fee." The difference, according to the IRS, is that a tip is a payment offered directly to a worker and in no way processed or taxed by the employer. A gratuity is a payment provided to the employee that has been collected, allocated, reported and distributed by the employer. Simply put, tips are cash-in-hand that must be reported by employees, and gratuities are included in paychecks and accounted for by employers.

[Engineroom Snipe]

1 minute ago, footzz said:

As far as thr IRS is concerned, it all comes down to the definition of a "tip" vs. "gratuity". The IRS disagrees with most dictionaries and encyclopedias definitions of the term "gratuity." Most resources define gratuity as a "tip" or "payment for services beyond an advertised fee." The difference, according to the IRS, is that a tip is a payment offered directly to a worker and in no way processed or taxed by the employer. A gratuity is a payment provided to the employee that has been collected, allocated, reported and distributed by the employer. Simply put, tips are cash-in-hand that must be reported by employees, and gratuities are included in paychecks and accounted for by employers.

A very astute definition which summarizes the question: gratuities are controlled by the employers while tips are controlled by consumer directly to the worker.