Norwegian Cruise Lines to increase gratuities again, any thoughts?

[jonthomas]

https://cruiseradio.net/norwegian-cruise-line-gratuities-increase-2023/#:~:text=Starting January 1%2C 2023%2C the,regular suites and The Haven.

[mauibabes]

While this applies to NCL, I would expect a bump from Oceania as well.  To be honest, I could not begrudge a few dollar bump for the crew who are so fantastic.  We always added a personal envelope for staff on top of the $16/23.  Getting and keeping good people is difficult at best, we see it at home all the time. The staff make great sacrifices for us and they help make Oceania the family we love to sail with. Even when the Gratuities are increased, I will still add an envelope for specific staff members. 
OK, my 2 cents,

Mauibabes

[jonthomas]

NCL is not increasing the salaries of staff but passing the increase onto the consumer....

 

so with the increased gratuities, you will add another level with gratuities with your own envelopes....I dont see  doubling down on the gratuities as a good thing...where do you draw the line?

 

I am not in favour of additional envelopes....it really sets up staff for hopes of additional moneys that may not be forthcoming and therefore a disappointment....there should be NO disappointment with an already increased gratuity....and NO expectations of more....

 

there have been many topics on gratuities....

 

not sure I want to start another one....this was intended to get opinions of NCLs second increase in a short time, but NOT wages....really dont like the constant passing on to the consumer....but maybe signals that their financial situation is such that raising cruise rates is not enough, they need us to subsidize staff wages as well....

 

will see what O does, but sure they will follow....as other cruise lines are doing besides NCL....

 

of course it does not concern those that have loyalty pay their gratuities..maybe they are the ones that support the additional envelopes....

[jonthomas]

and I am sure this topic comes up every time a cruise line increases the gratuities...and the same comments are made....

 

for Brits, correct me if I am wrong...the gratuities are included in the price...to allow for a culture that sees it this way....

 

I really prefer that. It also eliminates those that will pull the gratuities out and more will do  so now that they are being increased at this rate. Some lines have gone to this all inclusive method. Wish O would consider it. Of course then there will be even more envelopes by those who will see the inclusion as NO gratuity at all. 

 

I remember the days when it was not automatically deducted from your account. I remember, wondering if it was enough, never enough of course, timing when to see the staff, when to catch them at the end or beginning, to include a nice card or not...all that...so relieved not to do any of that anymore....

 

but still saw a  couple of people trying to catch staff on the second last morning with their envelopes.......while they are busy doing the rooms...so awkward....

 

very happy to avoid all that....

 

ok...this will bring all kinds that may disagree with me...its ok...we all have our own way of dealing with things....

[osandomir]

Did you notice that the prices went up for everything everywhere, not just for gratuities? Why not see it the way your cruise will be a bit more expensive.

And yes, we always leave some extra to the staff, our cabin crew in particular. I like it if they feel some joy when they’re working hard away from home while I’m on vacation with my family.

Edited December 14, 2022 by osandomir
Spelling

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, jonthomas said:

NCL is not increasing the salaries of staff but passing the increase onto the consumer

 

1 hour ago, jonthomas said:

this was intended to get opinions of NCLs second increase in a short time, but NOT wages

 

Do you actually know that NCL isn't increasing staff salaries ?

Do you work in NCLH's corporate headquarters in Miami? 

Have you seen the employment contracts that NCL crew have signed, which detail how crew are compensated ?

 

I'm quite willing to place a big wager that the answer to the above questions is a resounding NO, in which case it appears that all you're trying to do on this thread is stir the pot.

Edited December 14, 2022 by njhorseman

[Noxequifans]

1 hour ago, osandomir said:

Did you notice that the prices went up for everything everywhere, not just for gratuities? Why not see it the way your cruise will be a bit more expensive.

And yes, we always leave some extra to the staff, our cabin crew in particular. I like it if they feel some joy when they’re working hard away from home while I’m on vacation with my family.

Agree +++

[jonthomas]

1 hour ago, njhorseman said:

 

 

Do you actually know that NCL isn't increasing staff salaries ?

Do you work in NCLH's corporate headquarters in Miami? 

Have you seen the employment contracts that NCL crew have signed, which detail how crew are compensated ?

 

I'm quite willing to place a big wager that the answer to the above questions is a resounding NO, in which case it appears that all you're trying to do on this thread is stir the pot.

 

 

logic tells me that if you increase salaries, you wouldnt have to increase gratuities twice in a short period of time....

 

no have not researched if salaries have been increased...but judging from the fact that they cant find staff, perhaps salaries have been increased....

 

as for have I noticed that everything has gone up? of course I have, including Os rates...very much UP...so NCL has already made that gain...now they want to do it again with substantial increase in gratuities....are more people pulling out their gratuities so there is a need for an increase for the rest of us? something we will never know...but keep raising them and more will pull them out...unless you include it....and then those who love pushing the envelopes can get all that satisfaction and gratify over the top....

 

many here have included gratuities with their loyalty status....when I reach that, I will also have little comment to make...or will say, raise the gratuities twice every year...who cares..

 

 

[jonthomas]

This is also an interesting read, although not current.

 

https://crew-center.com/ncl-rise-daily-services-charges-will-reflect-distribution-crew-salaries

[ToxM]

2 hours ago, jonthomas said:

and I am sure this topic comes up every time a cruise line increases the gratuities...and the same comments are made....

 

for Brits, correct me if I am wrong...the gratuities are included in the price...to allow for a culture that sees it this way....

 

I really prefer that. It also eliminates those that will pull the gratuities out and more will do  so now that they are being increased at this rate. Some lines have gone to this all inclusive method. Wish O would consider it. Of course then there will be even more envelopes by those who will see the inclusion as NO gratuity at all. 

 

I remember the days when it was not automatically deducted from your account. I remember, wondering if it was enough, never enough of course, timing when to see the staff, when to catch them at the end or beginning, to include a nice card or not...all that...so relieved not to do any of that anymore....

 

but still saw a  couple of people trying to catch staff on the second last morning with their envelopes.......while they are busy doing the rooms...so awkward....

 

very happy to avoid all that....

 

ok...this will bring all kinds that may disagree with me...its ok...we all have our own way of dealing with things....

As a Brit I follow the when in Rome rule. In the US I tip, in Japan I would not. The culture on O is demographically more US-centric so I generally supplement the tip to those who have made the trip special. 

 

I tipped Annie the lovely lady who worked every morning in Baristas on Sirena who remembered my order after the first morning, and made sure we had a great table in the evenings we went to Red Ginger. 

 

The very young waiter around the pool area who plopped down a coke for me from the second day when I sat down. 

 

Tipping is not something that comes naturally to us Brits, culturally we find it uncomfortable - its not that we are mean, it’s just something that we find awkward. 

 

I don’t begrudge it, in fact I generally go out of my way to find the staff who have made a very positive impact on my trip and give them an extra thank you (as well as singing their praises on the mid cruise from or the final one). 

 

Without the great crew O would not be half the line it is. I am happy, they are happy. They work hard, they sacrifice a lot, its nice to be nice. 

 

 

[jonthomas]

Nicely said Tom. I like how you look for those who made your trip special. 

 

Its those that I see in the hallways second last day with their envelopes, asking where the stateroom attendants are and if I have seen them. That bothers me. Somehow I think there is a better way. You have surely found it. 

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, jonthomas said:

This is also an interesting read, although not current.

 

https://crew-center.com/ncl-rise-daily-services-charges-will-reflect-distribution-crew-salaries

The key sentence in the article  is "But there's no concrete answer if this actually reflected in the increase of the crew salaries."

 

That's evidence in support of exactly what I'm saying...that you certainly don't know whether NCL is or isn't increasing salaries, so your flat-out assertion that they are not isn't based on any facts.

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, jonthomas said:

 

logic tells me that if you increase salaries, you wouldnt have to increase gratuities twice in a short period of time....

That's illogical . What if NCL increased salaries twice ? Wouldn't that suggest an associated increase in  service charges would take place twice?

 

2 hours ago, jonthomas said:

no have not researched if salaries have been increased...but judging from the fact that they cant find staff, perhaps salaries have been increased....

Finally, something that makes sense . If you need to attract more staff you may have to increase salaries.

[Sthrngary]

What I am about to say comes from my experience I just had.  I will make this comment but might suggest the moderator moves this stream to the NCL CruiseCritic blog.  

 

I was just on the NCL Breakaway last week.  It was completely full.  They needed more staff at ever bar and restaurant.  I personally do the Pre-Paid Gratuities on my cruises.  I did it on NCL and have done it on my reservation for Oceania.  Based on the service I receive, I tip more during and at the end of the week.  My money, my choice and my pleasure.  

 

What I notice from this last cruise was NCL really cutting back not only on staff; the quality of the food was off in certain places.  The inventory of spirits and wines seem to be lacking especially the better brands.  The cost from everything went up and I do mean everything.  

 

All that being said.  Every cruise brand lost lost of money during the pandemic.  At first, with the ships 50% or less filled was the best cruises of my life on every level.  When that was reported and more folks started to cruise again, slowly things started to take a slight decline.  This is not based on a factual article just my personal experience and time I have spent on four cruise in the last 14 months. I think the cruise brands are attempting to make up some of the losses and these are just some of the approaches they are using.

 

Again, I do not work for NCL or any other brand.  This is just my opinion best on my most recent experience.  You know what they say about opinions. 

 

Cruise well and enjoy every moment. 

[JeffElizabeth]

3 minutes ago, Sthrngary said:

What I am about to say comes from my experience I just had.  I will make this comment but might suggest the moderator moves this stream to the NCL CruiseCritic blog.  

 

I was just on the NCL Breakaway last week.  It was completely full.  They needed more staff at ever bar and restaurant.  I personally do the Pre-Paid Gratuities on my cruises.  I did it on NCL and have done it on my reservation for Oceania.  Based on the service I receive, I tip more during and at the end of the week.  My money, my choice and my pleasure.  

 

What I notice from this last cruise was NCL really cutting back not only on staff; the quality of the food was off in certain places.  The inventory of spirits and wines seem to be lacking especially the better brands.  The cost from everything went up and I do mean everything.  

 

All that being said.  Every cruise brand lost lost of money during the pandemic.  At first, with the ships 50% or less filled was the best cruises of my life on every level.  When that was reported and more folks started to cruise again, slowly things started to take a slight decline.  This is not based on a factual article just my personal experience and time I have spent on four cruise in the last 14 months. I think the cruise brands are attempting to make up some of the losses and these are just some of the approaches they are using.

 

Again, I do not work for NCL or any other brand.  This is just my opinion best on my most recent experience.  You know what they say about opinions. 

 

Cruise well and enjoy every moment. 

We were quite disappointed by the food serving size and choices on both Princess in September and Holland in October.  We had great service and food on Oceania in March and April.  Hopefully they kept up their standards through next year. 

[pinotlover]

So many unrelated and interrelated issues here. Does jacking up gratuities, that only affects those with 10 or fewer cruises, or without OCAPP, really make a lot of sense? What percentage of Oceania’s cruisers are paying gratuities? If more revenue is required, it seems that cruise cost increases would be more efficient that increased gratuities.

 

NCL still forces pool tips. From conversations with staff last month, employees of the former PCH lines are still allowed to keep individually given to them in cash. Only the ship wide applied gratuities are pooled .

 

All ship board personnel are assigned a rank and pay grade based upon certain criteria. Everyone of that rank/ pay grade make an identical salary across the ship. Some positions have the ability to make additional pay via tips depending upon position and performance. The base pay of any position is based on contract pay , not gratuity levels charged. Your cabin steward  gets the same pay, based on pay grade, whether the ship is full or 50% so. Any additional income comes from the envelope you leave them. Gratuities collected by Oceania are dispersed as Oceania sees fit and not necessarily in a personal level.

[PhD-iva]

I have read that in many countries tips are not taxed as income, whereas salaries are taxed. This is the reasoning why cruiselines structure passenger costs to include a payment of gratuities.

All inclusive lines, like Regent, do not follow this example.

If tips are not taxed to the (international) employee, then it makes more sense to structure a larger component of their compensation as untaxed gratuity. An Economist would tell you that the cost to the passenger is the same. Either employee compensation is covered through the cruise fare or its covered through the cruise fare plus required gratuities.

[Brad1185]

I’m ready for tips to be included in the price.  It’s getting to be too much. Just include a few hundred more per person in the price of the cruise then advertise tips are included. I think their bookings would go up. 

[hawkesbaynz]

On our recent Sirena cruise we only tipped our room steward directly other than the included gratuities. Because of the included speciality dining and never being sat in a specific area in GDR, we never built a relationship with waiters/sommeliers thus did not tip any. I did feel bad for them! 
 

On Celebrity we tend to tip extra all these staff members. I often tip the pool guy and the chap keeping the toilets spotless in the evenings (Sirena loos were often dirty by mid-evening). 
 

On a different point found Miami to be in a tipping whirlwind. Included gratuities then demands for tips on top for generally mediocre service for mediocre food. Everyone wanted a tip! Even received emails from hotel booking sites asking me to tip the hotel staff (I do leave $$ for the cleaner).

[LGW59]

20 hours ago, jonthomas said:

and I am sure this topic comes up every time a cruise line increases the gratuities...and the same comments are made....

 

for Brits, correct me if I am wrong...the gratuities are included in the price...to allow for a culture that sees it this way....

 

I really prefer that. It also eliminates those that will pull the gratuities out and more will do  so now that they are being increased at this rate. Some lines have gone to this all inclusive method. Wish O would consider it. Of course then there will be even more envelopes by those who will see the inclusion as NO gratuity at all. 

 

I remember the days when it was not automatically deducted from your account. I remember, wondering if it was enough, never enough of course, timing when to see the staff, when to catch them at the end or beginning, to include a nice card or not...all that...so relieved not to do any of that anymore....

 

but still saw a  couple of people trying to catch staff on the second last morning with their envelopes.......while they are busy doing the rooms...so awkward....

 

very happy to avoid all that....

 

ok...this will bring all kinds that may disagree with me...its ok...we all have our own way of dealing with things....

You say this is about increased gratuities, NOT wages, you're not intending to start a discussion about...yet YOU have done exactly what you say was NOT your intention on BOTH subjects.  Honestly, as you say, much has been and will be said about tips, and YOU continue to along those discussions while at the same time saying what you were/were not intending.  Do what you want, when you want re tips, just don't pretend your post is NOT about something when it clearly is.

Edited December 15, 2022 by LGW59
typo

[MEFIowa]

Though BEFORE we ever talk about money and tips, we should discuss human dignity and work. The first "tip" we give is to treat them with respect and dignity, thanking them in time for their work for us. Acknowledging their presence and efforts. Getting to "know" them in what little time we have as best we can. Thus, I "learned" "Thank you" in Tagalog so I could say that to the many Filipinos I interacted with, including the lovely room stewardess Mary who cleaned our toilet.

 

I was so pleased to remember Steven, who was our room steward on Riviera in 12/21 when I serendipitously ran into him on Deck 4 of Sirena in 11/22. (Later after I mentioned it to my steward Salvio, he told me they worked that deck on the last voyage before they go home at the end of the contract. Both Salvio and Steven are from India, so he knew Steven.) We remembered each other. Shook hands. Yes, I did leave him an additional "tip" in a Thank You card in 2021, but I'd like to think that we remembered each other because we interacted as human beings first and foremost. I truly appreciated all he and the others did for me.

[jonthomas]

1 hour ago, LGW59 said:

You say this is about increased gratuities, NOT wages, you're not intending to start a discussion about...yet YOU have done exactly what you say was NOT your intention on BOTH subjects.  Honestly, as you say, much has been and will be said about tips, and YOU continue to along those discussions while at the same time saying what you were/were not intending.  Do what you want, when you want re tips, just don't pretend your post is NOT about something when it clearly is.

 

 

not pretending anything....all topics eventually veer off into something else...this one is no exception....but perhaps your gratuities are included due to loyalty...that makes this issue very different for you and others that have the same perk....

 

it will also be different for us once we reach that level....I will also then search for those who made it special for me, not just those who are doing their job....as Tom explained his strategy....love it....

 

when your gratuities are included, you are no longer giving out of pocket...thats a world of difference.....

[osandomir]

41 minutes ago, jonthomas said:

 

 

when your gratuities are included, you are no longer giving out of pocket...thats a world of difference.....

Did you mean when you reach the level of included gratuities you won’t worry about the gratuities increase for others anymore? So it’s all about your pocket and not the fairness of Oceania doing their business.

[Robjame]

Not wanting to start a new topic for my topic, I hope it is acceptable to ask a related question?

 

We will be onboard for Christmas. Do you do anything different for the crew with whom you relate directly on that day?

 

 

 

 

[jonthomas]

7 minutes ago, osandomir said:

Did you mean when you reach the level of included gratuities you won’t worry about the gratuities increase for others anymore? So it’s all about your pocket and not the fairness of Oceania doing their business.

 

yup...just like so many others that have it included....