Future of Norway Cruises?

[Guest ldtr]

47 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

We have posted about this relatively recent anti-cruise ship attitude that seems to be sweeping parts of the world, including in our own USA.  I think part of the problem lies in the size of many new ships, some of which carry over 7000 souls (counting the crew).  In Norway you also have the fall-out from the Viking Sky near-disaster which woke many folks to the environmental risks associated with ships.  

 

The reality is that cruise ship passengers contribute relatively little to the local economy while stressing the infrastructure.  Many cruisers tend to stick with structured "excursions" which are generally losers for most of the locals.  I imagine we will eventually see more and more mega ships going to fewer ports.  Small luxury line ships will still be welcomed at many places, but that is a niche market that leaves out a majority of cruisers that either cannot afford the cost, or who are not accepting of small ship cruising.

 

Hank

Both size and number.  3 or 4 3000 passenger ships can also over whelm a port.

 

 

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, Colorado Klutch said:

 

This is an age-old conflict. Many people in tourist towns hate tourists, but the local economy depends on tourists. Certainly the Norwegian protesters don't need my money, but clearly some Norwegians do.

Are you suggesting flying into a country on an airplane and driving to a town is being more of a "traveler"? Seriously, I'm asking for your opinion here and I'm not being sarcastic. 

I've never lived in Key West, but I've worked there off and on a LOT since the 1980s. Yeah, some of the locals hate tourists, but without tourism, only independently wealthy people could live there. 

 

I have also worked in Maine, but not as much as Key West. Very nice people in Maine, but the locals always told me how much they loved their state and how hard it is to make a living there. I would visit Bath Ironworks. Building ships is hard work, but it was still hard to get. 

Less than one would think.  A relatively few businesses.  Those that are focused on   the cruise industry, often ones that follow the industry as the seasons change (such as the ones in Alaska and the Caribbean often owned by the same people and who moves their inventory from one location to the other as the seasons end).  The excursion operators, a few retail a few bars (close to the port).  The local government usually benefits from the taxes and port fees the cruise ships pay.  Cruise lines make it an art on trying to retain as much of their passengers dollars as they can.

 

For many of the businesses it is more of a problem with the ship dumping a large number of passengers into a small town such as Bar Harbor and Key West make it less attractive to the land based tourists that come, often stay and fill the hotel rooms, and provide most of the tourism revenue. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by ldtr

[OlsSalt]

2 hours ago, Colorado Klutch said:

 

Thank you. I think I understand your points. Are port fees a big contribution? Those go to the government so the average local doesn't see that. 

Interestingly, I'm a Disney-head and there is always much debate about day visitors to Disney parks vs. Annual Passholders. Recently, Walt Disney Company has significantly cut back on Annual Passes and added many restrictions. Seems similar to the local visitors vs. cruisers debate. 

 

 

Port fees contribute significantly to our small tender port budget in Coastal California,  on the shoulder-season stop for some cruise lines.

 

 Per passenger fee provides more revenue than any other similar revenue raiser for this primarily recreational boating harbor. Because we only get smaller ships 3000 or so, or well under, and only during the two shoulder seasons, we have an uneasy truce being a cruise port.  

 

But the protests howl, every time one anchors a few miles offshore for their tender day in port. 

[Guest ldtr]

6 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

Port fees contribute significantly to our small tender port budget in Coastal California,  on the shoulder-season stop for some cruise lines.

 

 Per passenger fee provides more revenue than any other similar revenue raiser for this primarily recreational boating harbor. Because we only get smaller ships 3000 or so, or well under, and only during the two shoulder seasons, we have an uneasy truce being a cruise port.  

 

But the protests howl, every time one anchors a few miles offshore for their tender day in port. 

Santa Barbara??  Enough space that a single ship load of passengers spreads out fairly well.  Even Sterns Wharf does not get that over crowded.  Certainly not enough passengers in a season to influence the mix of shops, unlike what has happened to Key West.

[CruiserBruce]

12 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Santa Barbara??  Enough space that a single ship load of passengers spreads out fairly well.  Even Sterns Wharf does not get that over crowded.  Certainly not enough passengers in a season to influence the mix of shops, unlike what has happened to Key West.

As OleSalt liked your post, I assume Santa Barbara is the one. But Monterey also meets the criteria described. And is smaller, already usually pretty crowded, thus a 3k ship load would overload Monterey pretty easily.

[3rdGenCunarder]

27 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

Port fees contribute significantly to our small tender port budget in Coastal California,  on the shoulder-season stop for some cruise lines.

 

 Per passenger fee provides more revenue than any other similar revenue raiser for this primarily recreational boating harbor. Because we only get smaller ships 3000 or so, or well under, and only during the two shoulder seasons, we have an uneasy truce being a cruise port.  

 

But the protests howl, every time one anchors a few miles offshore for their tender day in port. 

 

One of the good things (for residents) about a tender port is that people come ashore in smaller groups instead of all spilling out the gangway at once. 

Edited January 31, 2023 by 3rdGenCunarder

[OlsSalt]

15 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

One of the good things (for residents) about a tender port is that people come ashore in smaller groups instead of all spilling out the gangway at once. 

 

We divert traffic on one lane of the four lane ocean front boulevard, in order to accommodate the larger tour busses picking up the tender passengers. But after the first few hours of the morning, things pretty much shut down in the arrival area.

 

There are smaller shuttles that take people into the main downtown area which is about 10 blocks away from the tender drop off, so they run continuously. Agree with the other poster, the smaller ship "crowds" do get spread out and do not create any overwhelming impact when ships are in port.

 

But local environmental activists operate in zero tolerance mode only. I personally like seeing HAL passengers in town and will often greet them, when I see them sporting HAL bags or logo. At this time I think we have found a reasonable accommodation being an occasional cruise port.

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, OlsSalt said:

 

We divert traffic on one lane of the four lane ocean front boulevard, in order to accommodate the larger tour busses picking up the tender passengers. But after the first few hours of the morning, things pretty much shut down in the arrival area.

 

There are smaller shuttles that take people into the main downtown area which is about 10 blocks away from the tender drop off, so they run continuously. Agree with the other poster, the smaller ship "crowds" do get spread out and do not create any overwhelming impact when ships are in port.

 

But local environmental activists operate in zero tolerance mode only. I personally like seeing HAL passengers in town and will often greet them, when I see them sporting HAL bags or logo. At this time I think we have found a reasonable accommodation being an occasional cruise port.

The central coast has a mind set all of its own.  Usually related to I live here so now I want to make sure no one else can.  Followed by lets shut down the oil refineries involved in making California required gas blends so we can then complain about how expensive the gas is.  (I live near SLO)

[OlsSalt]

9 hours ago, ldtr said:

The central coast has a mind set all of its own.  Usually related to I live here so now I want to make sure no one else can.  Followed by lets shut down the oil refineries involved in making California required gas blends so we can then complain about how expensive the gas is.  (I live near SLO)

 

Local one-issue activists (zealots) do belie any reputation Californians are laid-back.🙃

 

Hypocrisy also be grows in those vast new hydroponic "green houses", which are  taking over the formerly bucolic Central Coast.  Picking my own environmental assaults, I wish our new local industry would go back up North and let us just deal with the occasional cruise ships; not 24/7 skunk odor.

[shippmates]

I am on a Norwegian Fjords cruise on the QM2 and the stop in Flam was of great interest to me.  Several weeks ago, I received an email stating Flam was removed from our itinerary due to the changes in the protocols.  I was disappointed but the other ports are still great.

[yerdua]

1 hour ago, shippmates said:

I am on a Norwegian Fjords cruise on the QM2 and the stop in Flam was of great interest to me.  Several weeks ago, I received an email stating Flam was removed from our itinerary due to the changes in the protocols.  I was disappointed but the other ports are still great.

What was the date of your Flam stop? The website Cruisedig.com shows QM2 arriving May 13th 2023. https://cruisedig.com/ports/flam-norway

Edited February 1, 2023 by yerdua

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, shippmates said:

I am on a Norwegian Fjords cruise on the QM2 and the stop in Flam was of great interest to me.  Several weeks ago, I received an email stating Flam was removed from our itinerary due to the changes in the protocols.  I was disappointed but the other ports are still great.

 

That is disappointing, but all the Norway ports are wonderful. I think the scenery in Norway was the most beautiful I've seen, even edging out Yosemite and Alaska. 

 

I can understand their point. The train is the big attraction for most passengers, and when that's sold out, there isn't much to do in town. It's been a long time, so I don't know what other tour options there are in Flam.

[shippmates]

2 hours ago, yerdua said:

What was the date of your Flam stop? The website Cruisedig.com shows QM2 arriving May 13th 2023. https://cruisedig.com/ports/flam-norway

Our Flam stop was May 13, 2023.

[Hlitner]

On 1/30/2023 at 5:30 PM, ldtr said:

Both size and number.  3 or 4 3000 passenger ships can also over whelm a port.

 

 

Consider a 4000 passenger ship calling at Flam, a town with about 350 residents!  Boggles the mind.

[Guest ldtr]

Even Juneau is starting to look at limits.  They are currently planning to limit the number of ships in port to 5.  But many in the city want it lower.  There are some days where 6 are scheduled to visit.

[Mike07]

On 1/30/2023 at 10:15 AM, vicd1969 said:

I think the ban on non-zero emission ships, if enacted, won't be official until 2026. The ban may not be applicable to some of the fjords that aren't UNESCO world heritage sites. In any case, it may be too soon to know for sure how the ban is going to be implemented. You should be safe booking in 2023 or 2024.

 

 

I'm curious how this is going to work, as I think every ship has emissions.

[Dancing Shoes]

Previous post indicated non-zero emission in 2030.  

[Hlitner]

3 hours ago, Mike07 said:

 

 

I'm curious how this is going to work, as I think every ship has emissions.

The cruise lines will provide enough oars so that everyone can help move the ship.  

[Guest ldtr]

3 hours ago, Mike07 said:

 

 

I'm curious how this is going to work, as I think every ship has emissions.

Look at Hurtigrutin newest hybrid electric.  They can operate off batteries while inside the fjords.

[Mike07]

40 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

The cruise lines will provide enough oars so that everyone can help move the ship.  

 

 

 

Hahhahahahahahahahahahahaaha!

[Mike07]

19 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Look at Hurtigrutin newest hybrid electric.  They can operate off batteries while inside the fjords.

 

 

Didn't think of a hybrid solution, but yes, sounds like a valid, but expensive, loophole/workaround.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

The cruise lines will provide enough oars so that everyone can help move the ship.  

Will they also provide galley slaves to man  the oars?

[CurlerRob]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

Will they also provide galley slaves to man  the oars?

 

Be cautious booking the new category Z cabins ... 🍺🥌

[cruisemom42]

4 hours ago, Hlitner said:

The cruise lines will provide enough oars so that everyone can help move the ship.  

 

Welcome to HAL's new "Viking experience".  Man the oars like a true son (or daughter) of Odin as we plunder our way through the majestic Norwegian fjords. Special shore excursions will offer the opportunity to pillage ashore, forge weapons, or even take a turn navigating the ship using only a legendary Viking sunstone. Special entertainment will include recitation of Viking sagas in the World Theater, accompanied by the StepOne dancers....

[Pickalily, Wilts]

5 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Welcome to HAL's new "Viking experience".  Man the oars like a true son (or daughter) of Odin as we plunder our way through the majestic Norwegian fjords. Special shore excursions will offer the opportunity to pillage ashore, forge weapons, or even take a turn navigating the ship using only a legendary Viking sunstone. Special entertainment will include recitation of Viking sagas in the World Theater, accompanied by the StepOne dancers....

Spare a thought for Britain.  The last time Viking oarsmen set off, it didn't end well for us!