Wheelchairs Scooters or Walkers

[cruisequeen4ever]

I have a feeling it’s because of the Caribbean typically uses shuttles and vans for their tours, which don’t have the below storage for a scooter or wheelchair the way a big bus does. I totally understand your frustration. I second the recommendation to hire your own taxi to take you guys around. 

[Scotmay]

On 2/1/2023 at 8:52 PM, Mike45LC said:

There is a maajor difference between "the accessible tours are sold out" and "there are no accessible tours offered."  The first is "I'm so sorry to hear that."  The second is "contact an attorney experienced in the Americans With Disabilities Act claims."  Which is it?

We’ll, first of all we are not Americans, we are Canadians and would not under any circumstances sue Princess for this. We did go back to the Excursion desk and spoke to a “senior Person” in this department and she did in fact offer us a “special 2 seats” on one of their Barbados tours. I did explain to her that firstly the paragraph stating no wheelchairs, scooters and walkers was in much smaller and lighter print and should even be in much bolder print, so that people like us don’t waste our time buying these tours!  Secondly they need to get creative and figure out ways to allow disabled people to see around these ports!  Thirdly these tours were available, just not available to the disabled!  Surely we can find ways to have disabled people feel inclusive. Lastly, I wonder how many disabled people did not get to see Barbados because they didn’t speak up about this like us!

[dog]

I find a taxi tour ( you arrange as you arrive at port) is usually cheaper than the excursion for two people. Many of the ports I’ve been to world- wide have this available. 
I do agree that the print is too small, too light- blue is hard to see- as we age.

 

[billco]

9 minutes ago, Scotmay said:

 Surely we can find ways to have disabled people feel inclusive. Lastly, I wonder how many disabled people did not get to see Barbados because they didn’t speak up about this like us!

Here is one way.

https://www.visitbarbados.org/your-stay/personalised-services/accessibility-services?pageindex=1

[arizonaperson]

5 hours ago, Scotmay said:

We’ll, first of all we are not Americans, we are Canadians and would not under any circumstances sue Princess for this. We did go back to the Excursion desk and spoke to a “senior Person” in this department and she did in fact offer us a “special 2 seats” on one of their Barbados tours. I did explain to her that firstly the paragraph stating no wheelchairs, scooters and walkers was in much smaller and lighter print and should even be in much bolder print, so that people like us don’t waste our time buying these tours!  Secondly they need to get creative and figure out ways to allow disabled people to see around these ports!  Thirdly these tours were available, just not available to the disabled!  Surely we can find ways to have disabled people feel inclusive. Lastly, I wonder how many disabled people did not get to see Barbados because they didn’t speak up about this like us!

 Well I’m glad you were able to find a tour to go on in Barbados ,at least that’s what it sounds like you did. And totally agree -very difficult to know from the small print if you really can go on the tour or not especially when you see it online . But usually when I’ve seen tours online they have the same tour offered for wheelchair/Mobility walkers.  Glad you persisted  at the tour desk. 

Edited February 3, 2023 by arizonaperson

[mom says]

On 2/1/2023 at 4:20 PM, Scotmay said:

FYI. Tried to book tours on ship and found out no tours will take any of the above wheelchairs, scooters or walkers. I am so annoyed that there is no provision for making the disabled feel included!

I'm really not surprised. And it's not the cruise line's  fault. You waited til the last minute and are disappointed, but this happens for the able bodied as well. The most desirable excursions, or those with limited capacity sell out well before embarkation on many , if not most, cruises. And then they disappear from the avaliable excursion offerings. Too bad, but next time don't wait to book your excursions. Or be content with hiring a taxi at the port to give you a tour.

 

And not every excursion is appropriate to someone who has significant mobility problems, by their very nature. You can't hike in a wheelchair. Scooters can't manage stairs. None of them handle soft sand or uneven surfaces with ease. The Caribbean islands are not famous for uniformly paved roads, wide smooth sidewalks and big HA buses at every turn.

 

And the cruise lines don't do their own excursions. They simply provide bookings with existing providers in the ports. They can't magically make handicap accessible excursions appear out of thin air; they can only make use of the ones that are available, such as they are. 

[Scotmay]

46 minutes ago, mom says said:

I'm really not surprised. And it's not the cruise line's  fault. You waited til the last minute and are disappointed, but this happens for the able bodied as well. The most desirable excursions, or those with limited capacity sell out well before embarkation on many , if not most, cruises. And then they disappear from the avaliable excursion offerings. Too bad, but next time don't wait to book your excursions. Or be content with hiring a taxi at the port to give you a tour.

 

And not every excursion is appropriate to someone who has significant mobility problems, by their very nature. You can't hike in a wheelchair. Scooters can't manage stairs. None of them handle soft sand or uneven surfaces with ease. The Caribbean islands are not famous for uniformly paved roads, wide smooth sidewalks and big HA buses at every turn.

 

And the cruise lines don't do their own excursions. They simply provide bookings with existing providers in the ports. They can't magically make handicap accessible excursions appear out of thin air; they can only make use of the ones that are available, such as they are. 

You completely missed the point. There were tours available, just not for people with mobility aides.  As I said, at the last minute we were offered a 2 places on one of these tours which they said were not for people with mobility aides, which my hubby managed to do. We are not stupid we don’t buy tours we are not capable of doing. This was after a few visits to the Tour Desk!  This needs to be improved. 

[Scotmay]

1 hour ago, arizonaperson said:

 Well I’m glad you were able to find a tour to go on in Barbados ,at least that’s what it sounds like you did. And totally agree -very difficult to know from the small print if you really can go on the tour or not especially when you see it online . But usually when I’ve seen tours online they have the same tour offered for wheelchair/Mobility walkers.  Glad you persisted  at the tour desk. 

Thank you!

[Mike07]

1 hour ago, Scotmay said:

You completely missed the point. There were tours available, just not for people with mobility aides.  As I said, at the last minute we were offered a 2 places on one of these tours which they said were not for people with mobility aides, which my hubby managed to do. We are not stupid we don’t buy tours we are not capable of doing. This was after a few visits to the Tour Desk!  This needs to be improved. 

 

 

I think you need to be more understanding, and no, nobody is missing the point here.

 

Earlier you indicated that wouldn't sue Princess/Carnival... okay, I 100% accept your word at face value. Now, take somebody as righteously mad as you that wants to sue..... they sue Carnival and say win $10 million from the mental and emotional stress of being unable to do shore excursions.

 

What that will do is cause Carnival, RCCL, NCL, and other major cruise operators to reassess their willingness to accept passengers with mobile difficulties. What could easily happen is that the big 3 come back and begin requiring doctor's notes and physical assessments prior to accepting reservations for a cruise. E.g. I believe Antarctica Expedition tours require such notes.

 

Then, all the people on Princess with scooters and walkers will simply never be able to cruise again unless they con a doctor into signing off on their physical ability.... and of course, Carnival's lawyers will push back when you find a lenient physician to sign you off and then you're not actually able to walk around a ship independently.

 

If you want the major cruise lines to require physical fitness tests and/or physical health certifications from physicians prior to embarking on a cruise... please.... continue to beat this drum!

 

 

Note: on my last Princess cruise, the sheer volume of scooters onboard encouraged me to look into this industry... and I realized there's a whole new world and market for company's that will ship scooters to ports that you can rent for 5, 10, 15, 30 days or more at a time.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Mike07

[Guest ldtr]

20 minutes ago, Mike07 said:

 

 

I think you need to be more understanding, and no, nobody is missing the point here.

 

Earlier you indicated that wouldn't sue Princess/Carnival... okay, I 100% accept your word at face value. Now, take somebody as righteously mad as you that wants to sue..... they sue Carnival and say win $10 million from the mental and emotional stress of being unable to do shore excursions.

 

What that will do is cause Carnival, RCCL, NCL, and other major cruise operators to reassess their willingness to accept passengers with mobile difficulties. What could easily happen is that the big 3 come back and begin requiring doctor's notes and physical assessments prior to accepting reservations for a cruise. E.g. I believe Antarctica Expedition tours require such notes.

 

Then, all the people on Princess with scooters and walkers will simply never be able to cruise again unless they con a doctor into signing off on their physical ability.... and of course, Carnival's lawyers will push back when you find a lenient physician to sign you off and then you're not actually able to walk around a ship independently.

 

If you want the major cruise lines to require physical fitness tests and/or physical health certifications from physicians prior to embarking on a cruise... please.... continue to beat this drum!

 

 

Note: on my last Princess cruise, the sheer volume of scooters onboard encouraged me to look into this industry... and I realized there's a whole new world and market for company's that will ship scooters to ports that you can rent for 5, 10, 15, 30 days or more at a time.

I would have to respond to your post with BS.

 

First of all for someone to sue and win they would have to do so under the ADA which does not apply outside of the US in ports such as Barbados.  The courts have even limited its application when dealing with cruise shios home ported in the US. 

 

If someone was able to sue and win, highly unlikely, the same items that would have allowed them to win, would certainly prevent the cruise lines from blocking the mobility impaired from cruising.

 

So to put it simply your post is pure conjecture not tied to reality.

[Mike07]

10 minutes ago, ldtr said:

I would have to respond to your post with BS.

 

First of all for someone to sue and win they would have to do so under the ADA which does not apply outside of the US in ports such as Barbados.  The courts have even limited its application when dealing with cruise shios home ported in the US. 

 

If someone was able to sue and win, highly unlikely, the same items that would have allowed them to win, would certainly prevent the cruise lines from blocking the mobility impaired from cruising.

 

So to put it simply your post is pure conjecture not tied to reality.

 

 

I think my post was more the hypothetical of be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it!

 

That being said, my pure conjecture is that many Princess cruisers with scooters suffer from the same addictions that opioid and alcoholics suffer from except with food.

[cr8tiv1]

Am I mistaken, and IF I am, I would be happy to be corrected.

 

Princess hires outside vendors to provide tours to their passengers.

Vendors make the decision on how many buses/vans they can provide and support.  

Princess provides tours as a courtesy for their passengers and you are paying for that convenience of not having to book independently.

Granted, Princess is adding a "commission" to the tour prices.

You have the final decision to pay Princess for an available tour.

Often, excursions are completely booked before your sailing date.

 

I am sorry that you were unable to find a suitable accessible excursion.  Did you ever think that maybe the Senior Officer approached another booked passenger and offered to bump them (with a compensation) so that s/he could accommodate you?

 

I was on a Hawaii cruise.  Same thing happened to a handicap passenger.  Princess was able to find them 1 seat on an accessible van to Pearl Harbor at the last minute (tour was sold out/someone cancelled).  I don't know what happened to his/her companion.  

[Mike07]

48 minutes ago, ldtr said:

 

So to put it simply your post is pure conjecture not tied to reality.

 

 

BTW -- you don't think in a litigious society like the United States of America, a line for the nearly dead like Princess wouldn't take a second look at the physical ability of their guests and make decisions about continued operations of the line if they're opening themselves to an ADA lawsuit?

 

Yeah, chalk up my comments to not being based in reality.

[Rick&Jeannie]

OK guys...this is getting way too far out of line...

[dog]

And lesson learned-  book your excursions before the cruise.  Contact accessibility services.  

[CruisnDeb]

33 minutes ago, Rick&Jeannie said:

OK guys...this is getting way too far out of line...

Agreed.

[Guest ldtr]

2 hours ago, Mike07 said:

 

 

BTW -- you don't think in a litigious society like the United States of America, a line for the nearly dead like Princess wouldn't take a second look at the physical ability of their guests and make decisions about continued operations of the line if they're opening themselves to an ADA lawsuit?

 

Yeah, chalk up my comments to not being based in reality.

The application of ADA as being applied to cruise ships has been well tested in the courts already.  The scope of the application of ADA to cruise ships is pretty well defined.

 

Pretty clear that excursions in countries outside of the US are outside of that scope, even for cruises that start in the US.

 

That brings me to the second part if someone was able to win a case concerning handicap access to excursions in foreign countries (very unlikely) then it would be an even easier case for them to win if the cruise lines tried banning them entirely.  That would be within the scope of ADA for ships leaving from US ports.

 

That is why it is BS.  Using the potential of a case that is clearly outside of US law, resulting in the cruise line banning such individuals, something that would clearly be actionable under US law.

 

That is why it not based in reality.

[donaldsc]

On 2/1/2023 at 5:20 PM, Scotmay said:

FYI. Tried to book tours on ship and found out no tours will take any of the above wheelchairs, scooters or walkers. I am so annoyed that there is no provision for making the disabled feel included!

 

If specific tours are a necessity it is always better to book ahead of time and not on the ship.  This also gives you an opportunity to discuss your problems w your TA or travel consultant ahead of time.  

 

DON

Edited February 8, 2023 by donaldsc