Cost cutting, why are we surprised?

[AndyMichelle]

Having things taken away that you feel you have paid for is not a nice feeling. 

After events of the last few years that are going to affect us all for a very long time, should we be surprised that things have changed? 

P&O/Carnival is a business that needs to secure its future. Their bills have increased just like ours. Should they be swallowing that loss, passing it on to us or trying to save costs? 

We all have decisions to make, we don't have to book and I'm sure many won't. 

Not defending them, just trying to understand. 

Just Sunday morning musings...

Andy

 

 

[yorkshirephil]

16 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

Having things taken away that you feel you have paid for is not a nice feeling. 

After events of the last few years that are going to affect us all for a very long time, should we be surprised that things have changed? 

P&O/Carnival is a business that needs to secure its future. Their bills have increased just like ours. Should they be swallowing that loss, passing it on to us or trying to save costs? 

We all have decisions to make, we don't have to book and I'm sure many won't. 

Not defending them, just trying to understand. 

Just Sunday morning musings...

Andy

 

 

I think we are lucky that there are so many cruise lines left, I remember some of the discussions here a couple of years ago when it was becoming clear covid wasn't going away and the travel industry was decimated. The cruise lines are stuck between a rock and a hard place, they need the finance to stay afloat (pun intended) but are selling lots of cruises cheaply to get people aboard.

[Happy afloat]

I wouldn't expect them, or any other business, to fully absorb all the recent price increases. As you say, they need to secure their future and some costs will be passed on. But they also need to be aware that they have set a standard which their paying passengers have come to expect, and that while cost cutting in some areas is understandable and acceptable (evening turndown, for instance, is not something we miss), in others they are falling short. Poor staff training was one we encountered on Iona in November. 

Perhaps if they were more upfront and honest about the issues they are currently having and the resulting impact on customer satisfaction, people would be more understanding and less ready to shout from the rooftops about how terrible they think P&O have become.

It's all about finding a balance, and whilst it won't stop us cruising with them, I think they are quite a way off at the moment.

[Megabear2]

After all the discussions on food supplies a couple of months ago I searched wholesale suppliers in a 50 mile radius of Southampton supplying wholesale food to ships.  There seem to be a lot.  Who were the food supplier that collapsed?  Surely that was some time ago.  A quick look at the internet shows a lot of food supplies companies with the P&O cruises logo listed so assumedly they are now sourcing food elsewhere.  Is the problem of shortages because the UK has more shortages than other companies?  I have even see a specialist seafood wholesaler offering fish to cruise lines exclusively so prawns and things should be available.

 

I think that keeping the headline price down has become more important to P&O rather than raising them significantly as other cruise lines have done.  If it works and people fill the ships with the product as it is we won't see any changes.

[AndyMichelle]

12 minutes ago, Happy afloat said:

I wouldn't expect them, or any other business, to fully absorb all the recent price increases. As you say, they need to secure their future and some costs will be passed on. But they also need to be aware that they have set a standard which their paying passengers have come to expect, and that while cost cutting in some areas is understandable and acceptable (evening turndown, for instance, is not something we miss), in others they are falling short. Poor staff training was one we encountered on Iona in November. 

Perhaps if they were more upfront and honest about the issues they are currently having and the resulting impact on customer satisfaction, people would be more understanding and less ready to shout from the rooftops about how terrible they think P&O have become.

It's all about finding a balance, and whilst it won't stop us cruising with them, I think they are quite a way off at the moment.

Fair points. 

Staffing is always the first thing companies look at when trying to cut costs as it can be a quick fix, but obviously this will ultimately affect the service. 

Andy 

 

[AndyMichelle]

3 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

After all the discussions on food supplies a couple of months ago I searched wholesale suppliers in a 50 mile radius of Southampton supplying wholesale food to ships.  There seem to be a lot.  Who were the food supplier that collapsed?  Surely that was some time ago.  A quick look at the internet shows a lot of food supplies companies with the P&O cruises logo listed so assumedly they are now sourcing food elsewhere.  Is the problem of shortages because the UK has more shortages than other companies?  I have even see a specialist seafood wholesaler offering fish to cruise lines exclusively so prawns and things should be available.

 

I think that keeping the headline price down has become more important to P&O rather than raising them significantly as other cruise lines have done.  If it works and people fill the ships with the product as it is we won't see any changes.

I don't know who the supplier was who went bust or when.

Companies locally who supply them appear to be thriving and they certainly don't use only one, but costs have risen for everyone. 

My own position is that P&O have never been perfect, but have still had fantastic holidays, so hoping things don't deteriorate too much. 

Andy 

 

[happy v]

I have been thinking for months. They could have just raised the price. Remember surcharges? Would that have pleased everyone! I think the thread would be longer than 'how are you today'

[zap99]

10 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

I don't know who the supplier was who went bust or when.

Companies locally who supply them appear to be thriving and they certainly don't use only one, but costs have risen for everyone. 

My own position is that P&O have never been perfect, but have still had fantastic holidays, so hoping things don't deteriorate too much. 

Andy 

 

When we were allowed out, folk will remember staycation cruises. We booked 3 nights on Britannia.  We went on a cruise, we really did, wow. We booked another 4 nighter, then 7 nights on Iona, not going anywhere. Brilliant.  We're on holiday again. 3 last year, 3 this year. Cruise Holidays to us are something to really look forward too and enjoy. Things post covid are different. Doctors, British Gas, call centres that don't answer for over an hour. Strikes ,politicians . We arrive in Tenerife on Friday, if we can get through security at the airport. Then we get on a ship. We can then worry about Prawns, Coasters, will P&O cancel my dinner if I press the wrong button on the app?...not. To us a holiday is to enjoy 🤣🦐

[kalos]

2 hours ago, AndyMichelle said:

 Should they be swallowing that loss, passing it on to us or trying to save costs? 

We all have decisions to make, we don't have to book and I'm sure many won't. 

Not defending them, just trying to understand. 

Just Sunday morning musings...

Andy

Great to see you back Andy and pleased to read Michele is doing ok .

I think you have a very good understanding of what it means to protect your employees jobs,

keep the company afloat ,whilst paying the bills and having happy customers .

How people go about this could be the difference of sink or swim . A few years ago BC .We had a couple of companies that supplied us with packaging and to a big worldwide company .

One thought he had hit the jackpot and focused on just us .That was until we hit a recession and cut backs had to be made by us due to our customers cutting our orders back .The one who put all his eggs in one basket went bust .

If P&O go to a company that supplies it with beer mats , that firm is also going to be wary and will only supply (xyz) amount if paid up front but will supply (xy) on credit if it helps both .

Big firms love to get the goods and pay later but to be fair both are in the early stages  of 

getting their trades back on it's feet .

 

 

 

1 hour ago, zap99 said:

 Things post covid are different. Doctors, British Gas, call centres that don't answer for over an hour. Strikes ,politicians . We arrive in Tenerife on Friday, if we can get through security at the airport. Then we get on a ship. We can then worry about Prawns, Coasters, will P&O cancel my dinner if I press the wrong button on the app?...not. To us a holiday is to enjoy 🤣🦐

Too true and I love your outlook on things . Nothing would make me more happier than my 

heart specialist giving me the all clear in a few months time to cruise again and if he does 

then watch this space ! You can have my share of prawns and I will bring my own beer mat

if need be .🙂  I will try not to fret about booking meals, if I'm going I will press the ..

"I'm on my way" otherwise I'll hit "cancel" should I decide I'm not going .

It's been a while anyone know how to open cabin doors with the card ..swipe, poke ?🤣

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by kalos

[zap99]

11 minutes ago, kalos said:

Great to see you back Andy and pleased to read Michele is doing ok .

I think you have a very good understanding of what it means to protect your employees jobs,

keep the company afloat ,whilst paying the bills and having happy customers .

How people go about this could be the difference of sink or swim . A few years ago BC .We had a couple of companies that supplied us with packaging and to a big worldwide company .

One thought he had hit the jackpot and focused on just us .That was until we hit a recession and cut backs had to be made by us due to our customers cutting our orders back .The one who put all his eggs in one basket went bust .

If P&O go to a company that supplies it with beer mats , that firm is also going to be wary and will only supply (xyz) amount if paid up front but will supply (xy) on credit if it helps both .

Big firms love to get the goods and pay later but to be fair both are in the early stages  of 

getting their trades back on it's feet .

 

 

 

Too true and I love your outlook on things . Nothing would make me more happier than my 

heart specialist giving me the all clear in a few months time to cruise again and if he does 

then watch this space ! You can have my share of prawns and I will bring my own beer mat

if need be .🙂  I will try not to fret about booking meals, if I'm going I will press the ..

"I'm on my way" otherwise I'll hit "cancel" should I decide I'm not going .

It's been a while anyone know how to open cabin doors with the card ..swipe, poke ?🤣

 

Fingers crossed for you Kalos. You really deserve some good news. Your good humour has cheered us up for the last couple of years. Best wishes.🥳

 

 

 

[happy v]

13 minutes ago, zap99 said:

Fingers crossed for you Kalos. You really deserve some good news. Your good humour has cheered us up for the last couple of years. Best wishes.🥳

 

 

 

I'll second that. Best of luck Kalos

[alpha whiskey]

18 minutes ago, zap99 said:

Fingers crossed for you Kalos. You really deserve some good news. Your good humour has cheered us up for the last couple of years. Best wishes.🥳

 

 

 

+1

[smj777]

..."they have set a standard which their paying passengers have come to expect,"

and "Perhaps if they were more upfront and honest about the issues they are currently having and the resulting impact on customer satisfaction, people would be more understanding."

I think that Happy Afloat has nailed the situation very well. Personally, I'd be willing to pay maybe 10% extra to return to pre Covid levels. And why on earth can't P&O come clean and explain why the food quality and choice has fallen and shows no signs of returning to the standards of a few years ago?

[Ardennais]

I have repeatedly said that I don’t expect things to be exactly as they were pre-pandemic. My expectations are different but the glossy advertising seems much the same as before. THAT is what annoys me more than anything. The overpromising and underdelivering! 
 

I also feel for those passengers who save up for one holiday a year and are disappointed. It’s all very well for some of us to list our numerous holidays - if one is lacking, then we can brush it aside because, hey, we’re going on another one in a few months and we’ll most probably have a better time. That’s not the reality for most people. 

[yorkshirephil]

13 minutes ago, smj777 said:

..."they have set a standard which their paying passengers have come to expect,"

and "Perhaps if they were more upfront and honest about the issues they are currently having and the resulting impact on customer satisfaction, people would be more understanding."

I think that Happy Afloat has nailed the situation very well. Personally, I'd be willing to pay maybe 10% extra to return to pre Covid levels. And why on earth can't P&O come clean and explain why the food quality and choice has fallen and shows no signs of returning to the standards of a few years ago?

I agree with most of what you say, however cutbacks had been appearing well before covid reared its ugly head, P&O and other lines had been tinkering with MDR menus, cutting back on drinks quality at Captains cocktail, reduction/removal of weekly chocaholics, increase in pay venues, removal of turn down was trialled on Ventura, cutbacks in afternoon tea, cheaper biscuits in cabin (no Priory crumbles, grrr), pay for room service that used to be free, I am sure there are lots of other things. However cruising has got cheaper, I have seen an email today for 2 weeks in Caribbean fly cruise £869 on Arvia, we paid more than that 20 years with Airtours. It is a bit like the modern method of making things smaller rather that increasing the price, who remembers when wagon wheels would fit a wagon?

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, yorkshirephil said:

I agree with most of what you say, however cutbacks had been appearing well before covid reared its ugly head, P&O and other lines had been tinkering with MDR menus, cutting back on drinks quality at Captains cocktail, reduction/removal of weekly chocaholics, increase in pay venues, removal of turn down was trialled on Ventura, cutbacks in afternoon tea, cheaper biscuits in cabin (no Priory crumbles, grrr), pay for room service that used to be free, I am sure there are lots of other things. However cruising has got cheaper, I have seen an email today for 2 weeks in Caribbean fly cruise £869 on Arvia, we paid more than that 20 years with Airtours. It is a bit like the modern method of making things smaller rather that increasing the price, who remembers when wagon wheels would fit a wagon?

The £869 saver fare inside and is for the repositioning cruise for 14 nights I believe.  The other cabins aren't reduced so much and its over £1000 more for the select fare.  The headline figures sound good, the reality of select fares is a bit different. 

[kalos]

1 hour ago, yorkshirephil said:

It is a bit like the modern method of making things smaller rather that increasing the price, who remembers when wagon wheels would fit a wagon?

 

My Mrs has said a punnet of grapes she has bought are the same price as other weeks but 

content down almost 1/4 of what they used to be . Multiply that by how many P&O buy and 

imagine the cost to make up that shortfall 🤔

Nothings the same , Yorkie bars say "not for girls"  but does the Mrs listen ? 😉 

[Dermotsgirl]

5 hours ago, AndyMichelle said:

 

After events of the last few years that are going to affect us all for a very long time, should we be surprised that things have changed? 

 

 

 

The short answer is, no, we shouldn't be surprised at all.

 

The world has been through three years of extreme upheaval and the UK also has its own personal upheaval.

 

I think most people have finally realised that 2019 has gone and isn't coming back and that we are now living in different times.

 

Looking back, my first cruise on Aurora in 2001 cost a similar amount to my last cruise on Azura in 2019. Both in balcony cabins and the Azura cruise was for 19 nights, as opposed to the Aurora one which was 14 nights.

 

In order to keep the price the same, they had to make changes to to cruise experience, which most people who have cruised for several years are aware of, but, as it was happening gradually over a long period of time, it didn't seem too excessive.

 

However, after all the upheavals of the last three years, something's gotta give with P&O.  Carnival has lost a lot of money over the last few years, and we now have rampant inflation.  In order to give passengers a genuine 2019 experience on the fleet that was in place pre-pandemic, they would need to put up their prices. I think they are reluctant to do this, and will keep the headline prices low, but have an increasing amount of chargeable extras. This will probably work on Iona and Arvia, which weren't around pre-pandemic, and are marketed at people newer to cruising.  But, not sure if it'll work so well for the existing passenger base who sail on the older ships. They'll probably perceive it that they have to pay for things that were previously considered standard.

 

This may well cause the existing passenger base to look elsewhere.  

 

Also, ships aren't the only thing that have changed in the last three years. People have as well.  In my case, I haven't been on a cruise ship for three and a half years, and, as it turns out, I haven't really missed it. Perhaps I've moved on from cruising and maybe I'm not the only one.

 

I have a Saga cruise booked for this August, really just to find out if I still want to cruise in the new era. I purposely didn't book with P&O, as I felt that there would be too many changes after all the events and being away so long. 

 

I had so many good times on P&O. Perhaps I want to remember P&O the way they were, and try something new in the new era - we can't turn the clock back 

[grapau27]

8 hours ago, kalos said:

Great to see you back Andy and pleased to read Michele is doing ok .

I think you have a very good understanding of what it means to protect your employees jobs,

keep the company afloat ,whilst paying the bills and having happy customers .

How people go about this could be the difference of sink or swim . A few years ago BC .We had a couple of companies that supplied us with packaging and to a big worldwide company .

One thought he had hit the jackpot and focused on just us .That was until we hit a recession and cut backs had to be made by us due to our customers cutting our orders back .The one who put all his eggs in one basket went bust .

If P&O go to a company that supplies it with beer mats , that firm is also going to be wary and will only supply (xyz) amount if paid up front but will supply (xy) on credit if it helps both .

Big firms love to get the goods and pay later but to be fair both are in the early stages  of 

getting their trades back on it's feet .

 

 

 

Too true and I love your outlook on things . Nothing would make me more happier than my 

heart specialist giving me the all clear in a few months time to cruise again and if he does 

then watch this space ! You can have my share of prawns and I will bring my own beer mat

if need be .🙂  I will try not to fret about booking meals, if I'm going I will press the ..

"I'm on my way" otherwise I'll hit "cancel" should I decide I'm not going .

It's been a while anyone know how to open cabin doors with the card ..swipe, poke ?🤣

 

Our prayers 🙏 for successful heart results and a return to cruising Kalos.

Best wishes mate.

Graham 

 

[grapau27]

11 hours ago, AndyMichelle said:

Having things taken away that you feel you have paid for is not a nice feeling. 

After events of the last few years that are going to affect us all for a very long time, should we be surprised that things have changed? 

P&O/Carnival is a business that needs to secure its future. Their bills have increased just like ours. Should they be swallowing that loss, passing it on to us or trying to save costs? 

We all have decisions to make, we don't have to book and I'm sure many won't. 

Not defending them, just trying to understand. 

Just Sunday morning musings...

Andy

 

 

Always top notch service in speciality restaurants on P&O and RCL Andy.

Freedom and My time dining not so good.

Edited February 5, 2023 by grapau27

[showingdiva]

Good to see some shy prawns making an appearance in these photos.  The desserts look nice and well presented, and the bread appetising.   

But that bowl of grey (with what looks like chopped green beans), as someone with an inherent fear of mushrooms, which is what it looks like, I would be diving for the nearest lifeboat if that were put in front of me.

[zap99]

1 hour ago, grapau27 said:

Always top notch service in speciality restaurants on P&O and RCL Andy.

Freedom and My time dining not so good.

Got it.🤐

[Ardennais]

Graham’s photos are making me hungry!

[grapau27]

3 hours ago, showingdiva said:

Good to see some shy prawns making an appearance in these photos.  The desserts look nice and well presented, and the bread appetising.   

But that bowl of grey (with what looks like chopped green beans), as someone with an inherent fear of mushrooms, which is what it looks like, I would be diving for the nearest lifeboat if that were put in front of me.

Wild mushroom soup.

[showingdiva]

51 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

Wild mushroom soup.

😱