How Many Understaffed HAL Ships Have You Sailed On

[Stateroom_Sailor]

14 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I am also curious about some of the recent info on the conversion from BB King to Rolling Stone.  A few posts suggest that HAL has simply reduced the size of the old BB King groups (eliminated the horns) and rebranded.  If this is true (we would like to see more posts from the ships) it continues a disturbing HAL trend (started many years ago) to keep reducing the number of onboard entertainers.  

 

We don't stay up for the show so do not care.  Besides, there's no noticeable cuts to the gelato.

[kazu]

16 hours ago, Hlitner said:

am also curious about some of the recent info on the conversion from BB King to Rolling Stone.  A few posts suggest that HAL has simply reduced the size of the old BB King groups (eliminated the horns) and rebranded. 

 

Can’t answer your question on the potential conversion but I was just on the Koningsdam in December and January and we had both BBKings and Rolling Stone. An except from one of the daily programs:

 

 

 

 

[HappyInVan]

Back on topic.

 

Yes, the under-staffing is very clear. From the stress on the room stewards, to the lack of service in the Lido. In the buffet, no one comes around with water pitchers. Get your own drinks from the bar. Slow to clear the tables after you leave.

 

I've been on three HAL cruises in 2022. Two (New England and Hawaii) were sadly understaffed in the hotel and food departments. The Alaska cruise in April was fully staffed because it was the return of Alaska cruises from Vancouver. What a contrast with the rest of the year.

 

HAL needs to raise base fares to restore quality. But, can they manage that without cutting capacity?

 

In the meantime, expect more promotions like HIA+1 deposits. Placing more stress on pax trying to get their money'a worth.

[Florida_gal_50]

10 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

Back on topic.

 

Yes, the under-staffing is very clear. From the stress on the room stewards, to the lack of service in the Lido. In the buffet, no one comes around with water pitchers. Get your own drinks from the bar. Slow to clear the tables after you leave.

 

I've been on three HAL cruises in 2022. Two (New England and Hawaii) were sadly understaffed in the hotel and food departments. The Alaska cruise in April was fully staffed because it was the return of Alaska cruises from Vancouver. What a contrast with the rest of the year.

 

HAL needs to raise base fares to restore quality. But, can they manage that without cutting capacity?

 

In the meantime, expect more promotions like HIA+1 deposits. Placing more stress on pax trying to get their money'a worth.

The cruise pricing is very high for what I am looking at.  I have limited windows in which I can leave as I’m still working.  They should be cutting off the free cruises or increase the prices for those that want an increase.  Paying $5000 for the cheapest balcony on a less than 14 day cruise is not cheap.

 

I’m curious why you must start almost every post with the words getting back on topic?

Edited February 11, 2023 by Florida_gal_50

[HappyInVan]

19 minutes ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

 

 

I’m curious why you must start almost every post with the words getting back on topic?

 

Back on topic.

 

Yes, its unfortunate that price is an issue for many. Note that competing cruise companies are jumping in with their promotions; even Viking. So, there's the right price for you somewhere.

 

The issue is that the industry remains over-capacity. Until that capacity is filled at suitable prices, expect ships to be under-staffed. Some of us expect better from HAL.

[Laminator]

Had a wonderful dinner last night in FLL with a higher up from the casino division. HAL is having trouble with staffing issues across most facets of the operation. It's not for their lack of effort. Shipboard life for the crew is not an easy one as you all well know. Retention rate is not stellar right now. The quality of the candidates for what HAL is looking for is also not the best. It is definitely not for lack of effort on HAL's part. So do we throw them under the bus or continue to support them. I am not one for kicking someone when they are down. Things will never be like they were back in the day. But for us, who are boarding the NS in 90 minutes, we will continue to enjoy ourselves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Florida_gal_50]

36 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Back on topic.

 

Yes, its unfortunate that price is an issue for many. Note that competing cruise companies are jumping in with their promotions; even Viking. So, there's the right price for you somewhere.

 

The issue is that the industry remains over-capacity. Until that capacity is filled at suitable prices, expect ships to be under-staffed. Some of us expect better from HAL.

Nope.  I’m looking at several Princess cruises in April.  All are around $4000 or more for the cheapest balcony.  These do include “hia” type pricing.  I’m not able to cherry pick cruises based on pricing as I mentioned because I have limited times I can be gone.  I’m sure if you tell them to add a couple thousand on your cruise they’d be more than happy to do it.  Pretty much every company on the face of the earth has gone through and extremely hard time with Covid.  Companies have had to adapt and do things differently.  Upping the price on everything is not a viable solution.

[Florida_gal_50]

41 minutes ago, Laminator said:

Had a wonderful dinner last night in FLL with a higher up from the casino division. HAL is having trouble with staffing issues across most facets of the operation. It's not for their lack of effort. Shipboard life for the crew is not an easy one as you all well know. Retention rate is not stellar right now. The quality of the candidates for what HAL is looking for is also not the best. It is definitely not for lack of effort on HAL's part. So do we throw them under the bus or continue to support them. I am not one for kicking someone when they are down. Things will never be like they were back in the day. But for us, who are boarding the NS in 90 minutes, we will continue to enjoy ourselves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They are facing exactly the same issues as other companies.  Throwing your hands in the air and giving up is not a viable solution to me.  For the first time I ever remember (besides Covid) I will not be cruising with hal in the spring.  The fall is debatable.

[AFNavigator]

1 hour ago, HappyInVan said:

Yes, the under-staffing is very clear. From the stress on the room stewards, to the lack of service in the Lido. In the buffet, no one comes around with water pitchers. Get your own drinks from the bar. Slow to clear the tables after you leave.

I guess this is ship dependent.  On our Dec 2022 Nieuw Statendam cruise,--which was booked to something like 85%-90% capacity--our room stewards were very pleasant and didn't appear stressed and we had great service in the Lido buffet.  Through probably 10+ visits there over the week, we always had table beverage service within 1-2 minutes of sitting down  as well as getting prompt drink refills.  Generally, the only tables we saw consistently having drinks or plates on them were high traffic areas that people from the pool area or elsewhere would set down their empty glasses/plates/trays while walking by.

Edited February 11, 2023 by AFNavigator

[Florida_gal_50]

2 minutes ago, AFNavigator said:

I guess this is ship dependent.  On our Dec 2022 Nieuw Statendam cruise,--which was booked to something like 85%-90% capacity--our room stewards were very pleasant and didn't appear stressed and we had great service in the Lido buffet.  Through probably 10+ visits there over the week, we always had table beverage service within 1-2 minutes of sitting down  as well as getting prompt drink refills.  Generally, the only tables we saw consistently having drinks or plates on them were high traffic areas that people from the pool area or elsewhere would set down their empty glasses/plates/trays while walking by.

Being at 85 to 90 percent is a huge difference.  My 2 cruises on the koningsdam where bursting at the seems, well above capacity.  One of those weeks was thanksgiving.  From the sound of things every cruise was booked like that on the koningsdam in December.  While I didn’t have problems with the cleaning of my room, my stewards lost multiple things including my 500 day medallion.  The front desk said I had it.  I don’t recall having an issue getting water in the lido but I tend to go earlier because I can’t stand the crowds.  Hal doesn’t seem to be able to handle the over capacity so don’t book to the level.  It’s not good for anyone, crew nor vacationers.

[AFNavigator]

12 minutes ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

Being at 85 to 90 percent is a huge difference.  My 2 cruises on the koningsdam where bursting at the seems, well above capacity.  One of those weeks was thanksgiving.  From the sound of things every cruise was booked like that on the koningsdam in December.  While I didn’t have problems with the cleaning of my room, my stewards lost multiple things including my 500 day medallion.  The front desk said I had it.  I don’t recall having an issue getting water in the lido but I tend to go earlier because I can’t stand the crowds.  Hal doesn’t seem to be able to handle the over capacity so don’t book to the level.  It’s not good for anyone, crew nor vacationers.

Yeah, I can totally understand the staffing being stretched to the limit when the ship is booked well over 100% 2/room capacity.  We were on the Carnival Breeze Christmas week 2018 and it was at 130% capacity--4,800+ guests on a 3,690 100% ship. The staff was definitely stressed on that one.  As you noted, in these cased, it may not be so much that the ships are understaffed, it may be more that they are being oversold.

 

Maybe HAL should consider adding another ship out of San Diego in the winter because posts here consistently talk about the Koningsdam being packed nearly every cruise down the Mexican coast.

Edited February 11, 2023 by AFNavigator
clarity

[BetsyS.]

Laminator  -  I agree with you.  Bon Voyage! 🥂😊  My stepfather and I were 

on the NS in August for 24 days and we had a great time.

[Florida_gal_50]

16 minutes ago, AFNavigator said:

Yeah, I can totally understand the staffing being stretched to the limit when the ship is booked well over 100% 2/room capacity.  We were on the Carnival Breeze Christmas week 2018 and it was at 130% capacity--4,800+ guests on a 3,690 100% ship. The staff was definitely stressed on that one.  As you noted, in these cased, it may not be so much that the ships are understaffed, it may be more that they are being oversold.

 

Maybe HAL should consider adding another ship out of San Diego in the winter because posts here consistently talk about the Koningsdam being packed nearly every cruise down the Mexican coast.

I would love to see that happen but I don’t think it ever will.  Now they are sending the koningsdam on a 35 day cruise very soon that has available cabins at every level and are subbing in a less desirable ship to me (zaandam) on the west coast.  What a waste.  Why not put the zaandam on the longer cruise and it would possibly be sold out.

[HappyInVan]

1 hour ago, Laminator said:

HAL is having trouble with staffing issues across most facets of the operation. It's not for their lack of effort. Shipboard life for the crew is not an easy one as you all well know. Retention rate is not stellar right now. The quality of the candidates for what HAL is looking for is also not the best. It is definitely not for lack of effort on HAL's part. So do we throw them under the bus or continue to support them.

 

 

Actually, the entire industry must face a labor shortage. HAL could pay higher wages, or someone else will. After all, the labor force is faced with high inflation.

 

As a consumer, I have options. I don't have to be 'loyal' to HAL when HAL is looking after Number One. Like I said, HAL has the choice of cutting capacity. Raising base prices and needing less staff?

[Florida_gal_50]

Hal needs to be more productive with the staff they have.  I was sitting on the back deck of the ship a few years ago.  There was a broken glass under a table.  The deck steward seemed perplexed on how to clean this up.  You’d think it was a dead body.  I bet he came back a forth 5 times looking at it before determining that  a dustpan and broom is what was needed.  I’ve broken many a glass at home.  It doesn’t take me 5 tries to figure out how to clean it.

[kazu]

18 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Actually, the entire industry must face a labor shortage. HAL could pay higher wages, or someone else will. After all, the labor force is faced with high inflation.

 

Agree.  However, while the labour shortages are there wondering if any cruise line should be overselling their cruise ships?

 

As an example, Koningsdam’s capacity is supposed to be 2600 and crew around 1000 - (from my quick check). This is from my live thread in Deccember and numbers remained consistent for the next 2 sailings on the Koningsdam .  

“There are 2960 people on board the ship.

there are only 795 crew “

 

[Mary229]

19 hours ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

They are facing exactly the same issues as other companies.  Throwing your hands in the air and giving up is not a viable solution to me.  For the first time I ever remember (besides Covid) I will not be cruising with hal in the spring.  The fall is debatable.

I agree.  I am very understanding of inability to find personnel but once you do hire them there is no reason not to train them properly .   Does anyone know if the Indonesian training academy has resumed operations?

[HappyInVan]

1 hour ago, kazu said:

 

Agree.  However, while the labour shortages are there wondering if any cruise line should be overselling their cruise ships?

 

As an example, Koningsdam’s capacity is supposed to be 2600 and crew around 1000 - (from my quick check). This is from my live thread in Deccember and numbers remained consistent for the next 2 sailings on the Koningsdam .  

“There are 2960 people on board the ship.

there are only 795 crew “

 

 

Good point. That's why I don't feel any obligations to HAL. They've made their choices.

 

The way things are going, HAL is descending towards Carnival standards, and should be priced accordingly!

[kazu]

3 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Good point. That's why I don't feel any obligations to HAL. They've made their choices.

 

The way things are going, HAL is descending towards Carnival standards, and should be priced accordingly!

 

In all fairness - I was on the Oosterdam a month earlier and service was impeccable and food good.  the guys at the Sea View Bar were incredible on the O - couldn’t do enough for you.  👍. So, I had that to ‘compare’ to.

[3rdGenCunarder]

5 hours ago, kazu said:

 

Agree.  However, while the labour shortages are there wondering if any cruise line should be overselling their cruise ships?

 

As an example, Koningsdam’s capacity is supposed to be 2600 and crew around 1000 - (from my quick check). This is from my live thread in Deccember and numbers remained consistent for the next 2 sailings on the Koningsdam .  

“There are 2960 people on board the ship.

there are only 795 crew “

 

 

Wow, that is WAY oversold! That's 360 "extra" people. I didn't realize there are so many trip/quad cabins.

 

I'd like to give HAL the benefit of the doubt and say they didn't know they would be short 200 crew, but they should have been able to make some projections based on their issues with hiring and placing crew. They KNOW holiday cruises are popular (and lucrative), and they want to make as much money as possible, but they should also KNOW that these cruises involve a lot of extra work for the crew. I think they only looked at the passenger numbers ($$$!) when they should have kept an eye on crew numbers, too. 

 

There have been suggestions that HAL should take a ship offline and redistribute crew, but that isn't realistic. But HAL could hold back some cabins until closer to final payment when they have a better idea of staffing. If staffing is good, put more cabins on the website. Maybe they have to be sold on sale, but at least HAL would be selling a product that is up to their standards.

 

[Florida_gal_50]

7 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

Wow, that is WAY oversold! That's 360 "extra" people. I didn't realize there are so many trip/quad cabins.

 

I'd like to give HAL the benefit of the doubt and say they didn't know they would be short 200 crew, but they should have been able to make some projections based on their issues with hiring and placing crew. They KNOW holiday cruises are popular (and lucrative), and they want to make as much money as possible, but they should also KNOW that these cruises involve a lot of extra work for the crew. I think they only looked at the passenger numbers ($$$!) when they should have kept an eye on crew numbers, too. 

 

There have been suggestions that HAL should take a ship offline and redistribute crew, but that isn't realistic. But HAL could hold back some cabins until closer to final payment when they have a better idea of staffing. If staffing is good, put more cabins on the website. Maybe they have to be sold on sale, but at least HAL would be selling a product that is up to their standards.

 

It wasn’t just at Christmas.  Both my cruises in November were above capacity (one was thanksgiving) plus I was told by several staff that every cruise was over capacity in December.  I can’t remember if the zaandam was in the area at the time but if that ship wasn’t sold out maybe it would have been possible to transfer some to the koningsdam.  Of course any cruise that isn’t over capacity is going to be a much better experience.  That’s a no brainer.

[AFNavigator]

4 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Good point. That's why I don't feel any obligations to HAL. They've made their choices.

 

The way things are going, HAL is descending towards Carnival standards, and should be priced accordingly!

Sounds like HAL is still in way better shape than NCL  Lots of chatter lately about them cutting staff--as opposed to being understaffed--while at the same time increasing tips and all other sorts of charges and even making you ask for a refund of port fees for a skipped port.

[kazu]

1 hour ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

Wow, that is WAY oversold! That's 360 "extra" people. I didn't realize there are so many trip/quad cabins.

 

I'd like to give HAL the benefit of the doubt and say they didn't know they would be short 200 crew, but they should have been able to make some projections based on their issues with hiring and placing crew. They KNOW holiday cruises are popular (and lucrative), and they want to make as much money as possible, but they should also KNOW that these cruises involve a lot of extra work for the crew. I think they only looked at the passenger numbers ($$$!) when they should have kept an eye on crew numbers, too. 

 

There have been suggestions that HAL should take a ship offline and redistribute crew, but that isn't realistic. But HAL could hold back some cabins until closer to final payment when they have a better idea of staffing. If staffing is good, put more cabins on the website. Maybe they have to be sold on sale, but at least HAL would be selling a product that is up to their standards.

 

 

 

they had a kids sail free promo for both the Christmas and New Year’s cruise, by the way.  So, I guess it shouldn’t have been a surprise.

[3rdGenCunarder]

5 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

 

they had a kids sail free promo for both the Christmas and New Year’s cruise, by the way.  So, I guess it shouldn’t have been a surprise.

 

Maybe not to customers, but HAL should have known and planned better.

[mcrcruiser]

We have read all the posts  which of course is very time consuming . My take away is even though we have legitimate complaints  ,HAL management is looking the other way  whether we like it or not  .imo ,they probably are saying ,we are getting revenue results ,so why change things until it impacts revenue  .  

 Not some thing we like to see & experience  . So we accept what we get or we decide to go else where with our vacation dollars . Each of us will need to evaluate what we get for what we pay out & from there make our decisions

They run HAL but we run our spending