New houskeeping and tipping

[resetjet]

On 2/14/2023 at 2:15 PM, ray98 said:

Not sure how you have come up with that as fact but that is the exact opposite of everything I've heard from employees who speak about it.

Well you have to do the math.  On carnival the steward portion of the tips as evidenced by my post is $62 for a week. He has 35 cabins. 35 x $62 = $2170 a week.  Now that assumes double occupancy say i think its safe to add 10% for quad cabins.  So lets call that $2400. Most of us give extra,  but i will leave that out. $2400 x 4 = $8800 a month   Which is absurd for a steward. He only has an assitant 2 hrs a day right now and more help on end of cruise days.  Now you will also note he gets a small salary.  So how many positions do you think that is divided among.  The answef is i dont know but since the average salary of this position is $1200 a month as evidenced on shiplife.org and it can be assumed through various sources their final earnings are about $3500 a month or an 8 month contract yielding $28000 clear,  deduct the 10,000 in salary and you have $18000 in tips.  Substract the $8800 x 8 = $70400 and that is 70400-18000 = $52000.  So his portion of those tips is about 25% with the remaining 52000 divided up amongst lower paid employees. I would guess somewhere in the area of 6 or 8 others.  We had have to do that math using the same process but i dont care to get into it. So for every dollar he gets .25. How much incentive does that provide?  Do you feel you should be tipping every position in housekeeping the majority of their salary?  That is a personal choice.  I realize it keep cruise fares down and corporate taxes down,  but the process is broken.  Evidenced by the lack or cruise ship employees which necessitated the once a day cleaning in the first place.  I can tell you that my stewards are not happy about it,  and they are being worked to exhaustion.  I have seen that with my own two eyes.  I dont want to give him $50 extra if he only realizes $12 of it and that is what most are saying. They divide it all up.  We need a better process of they are to continue to attract employees.   Maybe just more transparency would help,  i dont know but until the ships are fully staffed i consider it not working. The great reset has spoken all around the world. People around the world are willing to trade freedom for prosperity.  Or we just keep

raising the grats……

[mz-s]

20 minutes ago, resetjet said:

Well you have to do the math.  On carnival the steward portion of the tips as evidenced by my post is $62 for a week. He has 35 cabins. 35 x $62 = $2170 a week.  Now that assumes double occupancy say i think its safe to add 10% for quad cabins.  So lets call that $2400. Most of us give extra,  but i will leave that out. $2400 x 4 = $8800 a month   Which is absurd for a steward. He only has an assitant 2 hrs a day right now and more help on end of cruise days.  Now you will also note he gets a small salary.  So how many positions do you think that is divided among.  The answef is i dont know but since the average salary of this position is $1200 a month as evidenced on shiplife.org and it can be assumed through various sources their final earnings are about $3500 a month or an 8 month contract yielding $28000 clear,  deduct the 10,000 in salary and you have $18000 in tips.  Substract the $8800 x 8 = $70400 and that is 70400-18000 = $52000.  So his portion of those tips is about 25% with the remaining 52000 divided up amongst lower paid employees. I would guess somewhere in the area of 6 or 8 others.  We had have to do that math using the same process but i dont care to get into it. So for every dollar he gets .25. How much incentive does that provide?  Do you feel you should be tipping every position in housekeeping the majority of their salary?  That is a personal choice.  I realize it keep cruise fares down and corporate taxes down,  but the process is broken.  Evidenced by the lack or cruise ship employees which necessitated the once a day cleaning in the first place.  I can tell you that my stewards are not happy about it,  and they are being worked to exhaustion.  I have seen that with my own two eyes.  I dont want to give him $50 extra if he only realizes $12 of it and that is what most are saying. They divide it all up.  We need a better process of they are to continue to attract employees.   Maybe just more transparency would help,  i dont know but until the ships are fully staffed i consider it not working. The great reset has spoken all around the world. People around the world are willing to trade freedom for prosperity.  Or we just keep

raising the grats……

 

I am sure the ships are as fully staffed as they are going to be forever more. Carnival has proven the ships can run along with this level of staffing, even when the ships are over 100% capacity. So why would they add more crew? Many crew I've talked to, especially in the more difficult jobs like steward, say they do the job for a few years to save up a nice nest egg for their family and then go back home. The job is too hard to do for too long. Carnival can replace them with a fresh batch as often as is necessary. Externalities like slow visa processing of last year may throw a wrench in the works...but for the most part the system works, for good or bad.

Edited February 16, 2023 by mz-s

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, resetjet said:

Well you have to do the math.  On carnival the steward portion of the tips as evidenced by my post is $62 for a week. He has 35 cabins. 35 x $62 = $2170 a week.  Now that assumes double occupancy say i think its safe to add 10% for quad cabins.  So lets call that $2400. Most of us give extra,  but i will leave that out. $2400 x 4 = $8800 a month   Which is absurd for a steward. He only has an assitant 2 hrs a day right now and more help on end of cruise days.  Now you will also note he gets a small salary.  So how many positions do you think that is divided among.  The answef is i dont know but since the average salary of this position is $1200 a month as evidenced on shiplife.org and it can be assumed through various sources their final earnings are about $3500 a month or an 8 month contract yielding $28000 clear,  deduct the 10,000 in salary and you have $18000 in tips.  Substract the $8800 x 8 = $70400 and that is 70400-18000 = $52000.  So his portion of those tips is about 25% with the remaining 52000 divided up amongst lower paid employees. I would guess somewhere in the area of 6 or 8 others.  We had have to do that math using the same process but i dont care to get into it. So for every dollar he gets .25. How much incentive does that provide?  Do you feel you should be tipping every position in housekeeping the majority of their salary?  That is a personal choice.  I realize it keep cruise fares down and corporate taxes down,  but the process is broken.  Evidenced by the lack or cruise ship employees which necessitated the once a day cleaning in the first place.  I can tell you that my stewards are not happy about it,  and they are being worked to exhaustion.  I have seen that with my own two eyes.  I dont want to give him $50 extra if he only realizes $12 of it and that is what most are saying. They divide it all up.  We need a better process of they are to continue to attract employees.   Maybe just more transparency would help,  i dont know but until the ships are fully staffed i consider it not working. The great reset has spoken all around the world. People around the world are willing to trade freedom for prosperity.  Or we just keep

raising the grats……

We aren't entitled to transparency.  That "room attendant" line means housekeeping who clean both your stateroom and public areas so more than one person.  Same as dining team means more than the three person team assigned to your table. However, spending $16.50 day in grats for the multitude  of crew that make my vacation is beyond worth it. It would be that much in tips for one nice dinner with several apps, entrée, dessert and coffee service on land.  Bottom line, if you don't like the system, don't support it.  One way or another, cruise customers also pay the salaries of the thousands of shore side employees and for Mickey Arison's mansions so I don't see this need to microscope the lowest people on the totem pole.

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, mz-s said:

 

I am sure the ships are as fully staffed as they are going to be forever more. Carnival has proven the ships can run along with this level of staffing, even when the ships are over 100% capacity. So why would they add more crew? Many crew I've talked to, especially in the more difficult jobs like steward, say they do the job for a few years to save up a nice nest egg for their family and then go back home. The job is too hard to do for too long. Carnival can replace them with a fresh batch as often as is necessary. Externalities like slow visa processing of last year may throw a wrench in the works...but for the most part the system works, for good or bad.

I have had waiters with more than 20 years onboard

[rainbowflag]

1 hour ago, mz-s said:

Carnival can replace them with a fresh batch as often as is necessary. 

"A fresh batch" of human beings you mean? Such a contemptible remark that smacks of privilege. 

[sparks1093]

21 hours ago, mz-s said:

 

Bellhops are typically not paid via automatic 'gratuities' so forgive me for being slow on the uptake here. I simply don't see the connection.

Part of the problem is that you came in the middle of a conversation with another poster about the feasibility of just adding the tips to the fare or the charge. I brought up a specific example to show why it isn't so easy. Of course you don't think a bellhop deserves that kind of wages, but that too is irrelevant.

 

I was a bellhop when I was a teenager and my job was to take a guests' bags to their room. There are a group of folks onboard the ship that do that every embarkation day and then reverse the process at the end of the cruise. No matter what you call them they do get a share of the auto gratuities to compensate them for their time in moving luggage since they normally work in another department. 

[mz-s]

38 minutes ago, rainbowflag said:

"A fresh batch" of human beings you mean? Such a contemptible remark that smacks of privilege. 

 

Number one, you know nothing about me. Number two, I'm not the one that hires out of the third world and pays them such low wages that the customers have to subsidize it...

[Elaine5715]

2 hours ago, mz-s said:

 

Number one, you know nothing about me. Number two, I'm not the one that hires out of the third world and pays them such low wages that the customers have to subsidize it...

Customers pay 100% of wages for all businesses including the outrageous salaries of pro athletes  

[mz-s]

38 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

Customers pay 100% of wages for all businesses including the outrageous salaries of pro athletes  

well that’s obviously true, but not in the form of gratuities.

 

I was all for gratuities believing they helped ensure good service. But in the past few years the service on Carnival has declined yet the gratuities have increased. So I am no longer in favor of them. It’s essentially corporate welfare for Carnival. I don’t support it. 

[Pika8347]

On 2/15/2023 at 12:41 PM, Hoosierpop said:

I, for one, will sleep easier tonight knowing you do that.

Right?!? Thank you HoosierPop. Why is this such a rarity? I'm NOT removing the tip money and keeping it. I'm reallocating the dollars as I see fit! 

 

I have little sympathy for corporate entity that pays ZERO US income tax. Is it slave labor? Probably. However, it's not my responsibility to ensure they [Carnival employees] earn a fair wage. It's simple economics. 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Pika8347

[Elaine5715]

2 hours ago, mz-s said:

well that’s obviously true, but not in the form of gratuities.

 

I was all for gratuities believing they helped ensure good service. But in the past few years the service on Carnival has declined yet the gratuities have increased. So I am no longer in favor of them. It’s essentially corporate welfare for Carnival. I don’t support it. 

So you would rather pay $1000 all in for a cruise instead of $900 plus $100 gratuities?  When some four star restaurants announced they were going tipless but raised menu prices and put in a 20% service charge, the tipping is bad crowd cheered (servers quit).  The meal was now more expensive. How does that make sense?  Why is a "service charge" good but gratuities bad? 

[sparks1093]

6 hours ago, mz-s said:

well that’s obviously true, but not in the form of gratuities.

 

I was all for gratuities believing they helped ensure good service. But in the past few years the service on Carnival has declined yet the gratuities have increased. So I am no longer in favor of them. It’s essentially corporate welfare for Carnival. I don’t support it. 

I've cruised in the past few years and haven't noticed a decline in service, but be that as it may rather than taking it out on the crew complain to the cruise ship and to corporate about the decline in service. If they start receiving enough complaints then they will take action. If they don't receive the complaints and the ships continue to sail full then in their eyes there is no reason to change (because the ultimate complaint is taking your business elsewhere). As I've said you can call it whatever you want to call it, gratuities, daily service charge, resort fee, it is still the way that the staff gets paid. 

[sparks1093]

5 hours ago, Pika8347 said:

Right?!? Thank you HoosierPop. Why is this such a rarity? I'm NOT removing the tip money and keeping it. I'm reallocating the dollars as I see fit! 

 

I have little sympathy for corporate entity that pays ZERO US income tax. Is it slave labor? Probably. However, it's not my responsibility to ensure they [Carnival employees] earn a fair wage. It's simple economics. 

I haven't any sympathy for corporate either but removing the auto gratuitites and re-inventing the wheel by "reallocating the dollars as I see fit" doesn't hurt corporate at all, it hurts the employees who did their best to make your cruise vacation special. Do you think that the heartless corporation cares about their employees enough to lose any sleep over that? 

[Pellaz]

6 hours ago, mz-s said:

well that’s obviously true, but not in the form of gratuities.

 

I was all for gratuities believing they helped ensure good service. But in the past few years the service on Carnival has declined yet the gratuities have increased. So I am no longer in favor of them. It’s essentially corporate welfare for Carnival. I don’t support it. 

 

Hmm, you've made that abundantly clear.  Have you cancelled all your upcoming Carnival cruises (if any) and rescheduled for a different line?   Or a few good nights out at Chili's?  

 

6 hours ago, Pika8347 said:

I have little sympathy for corporate entity that pays ZERO US income tax.

Oh?    You have proof of this?

6 hours ago, Pika8347 said:

 

Is it slave labor? Probably. However, it's not my responsibility to ensure they [Carnival employees] earn a fair wage. It's simple economics. 

 

By definition it's not "slave labor" since the employees voluntarily enter into their contracts.  Moreover, although they work hard and for long hours, they are paid quite well by the standards of their home countries.    AND of course, they receive free room and board, and free medical.   

[bettysuetraveler]

just out of curiosity, are we paying taxes on gratuities when we prepay them? i have no issue with paying gratuity but i dont want to be taxed on this. 

[sparks1093]

2 hours ago, bettysuetraveler said:

just out of curiosity, are we paying taxes on gratuities when we prepay them? i have no issue with paying gratuity but i dont want to be taxed on this. 

Gratuities aren't subject to sales tax in any event but I've never been charged tax.

[Guest BasicSailor]

4 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

it is still the way that the staff gets paid. 

Good morning, so you're saying that's their only income?🤐

[sparks1093]

Just now, BasicSailor said:

Good morning, so you're saying that's their only income?🤐

Nope.

[Guest BasicSailor]

1 minute ago, sparks1093 said:

Nope.

What do they get paid then?

[ray98]

3 hours ago, bettysuetraveler said:

just out of curiosity, are we paying taxes on gratuities when we prepay them? i have no issue with paying gratuity but i dont want to be taxed on this. 

No.

[simplelife]

On 2/15/2023 at 10:07 AM, mz-s said:

 

 

 

By the way - Where else in the world are you called a cheapskate if you refuse to tip "behind the scenes" workers except the Carnival cruise critic forum I ask you? I don't know if there's a TGI Friday's Critic forum somewhere on the internet, but if there is - do they call you a cheapskate if you don't give a tip to the guy who refills the paper towels in the bathroom?

Yoi don't live at TGI Fridays,

[simplelife]

On 2/15/2023 at 10:39 AM, sparks1093 said:

*sigh* once again, YOU don't tip the person behind the scenes. You give your tip to the server and THEY tip out the person behind the scenes if that is the agreement exists in that establishment. If you remove your auto gratuities and tip your steward they are still obligated to turn those tips in so they can be properly distributed. You've just made it harder on them because they have to use their off time to deal with it.

Why do you want to make it harder for them?

[sparks1093]

47 minutes ago, BasicSailor said:

What do they get paid then?

Read through the thread, you'll get an idea. 🙂 

[sparks1093]

24 minutes ago, simplelife said:

Why do you want to make it harder for them?

If the question is directed at me, I don't want to make it harder for them. If it is directed at someone else then I have no idea.

[mz-s]

51 minutes ago, simplelife said:

Yoi don't live at TGI Fridays,

 

speak for yourself