New houskeeping and tipping

[justafem]

12 hours ago, resetjet said:

None of these employees are paying any US taxes. Registered in panama,  and whatever country they are from. Also

what happens in hotels and cruises is not the same.  Cruises offer the crew members a contract for a certain amount of money per month.  A base pay(very low).+ tips = monthly guarantee.  About $1200-$2000 per Month for a room steward.  Since the tips come up short(because they are dividing them up to everyone under the sun). The company makes up the difference.  So extra tips made on a cc just save the company money.  

We are also basing that 'low' wage on US standards.  Typically 3rd world countries earn less than $500 US per month, with Mexico being one of the highest at about $450 per month.  Philippine's is much, much lower (about half of Mexico). 

 

So those 'low' wages everyone talks about is 3-6 times their countries average wage.  Then add tips.  

 

I just got off a 10 day Royal princess cruise 3 days ago.  We figured the attendant for the smoking room made $800-$1200 in cash tips just from the smokers in that 10 day period, in addition to the daily gratuities.  Not everyone tipped cash and not everyone that did tip, tipped every time.  That was just in singles.  No telling how much he received the last day of the cruise in additional tips.  

 

Don't tell me customer facing crew are underpaid.  They all knew the base wages they'd receive.  

 

And gratuities are optional. 

 

gratuity

noun

gra·tu·i·ty grə-ˈtü-ə-tē  

-ˈtyü-

 

pluralgratuities

Synonyms of gratuity

: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service

especially : TIP

added a gratuity for the server

[groundloop]

It sure sounds like a lot of people are just looking for an excuse to be stingy.

[Elaine5715]

17 minutes ago, justafem said:

We are also basing that 'low' wage on US standards.  Typically 3rd world countries earn less than $500 US per month, with Mexico being one of the highest at about $450 per month.  Philippine's is much, much lower (about half of Mexico). 

 

So those 'low' wages everyone talks about is 3-6 times their countries average wage.  Then add tips.  

 

I just got off a 10 day Royal princess cruise 3 days ago.  We figured the attendant for the smoking room made $800-$1200 in cash tips just from the smokers in that 10 day period, in addition to the daily gratuities.  Not everyone tipped cash and not everyone that did tip, tipped every time.  That was just in singles.  No telling how much he received the last day of the cruise in additional tips.  

 

Don't tell me customer facing crew are underpaid.  They all knew the base wages they'd receive.  

 

And gratuities are optional. 

 

gratuity

noun

gra·tu·i·ty grə-ˈtü-ə-tē  

-ˈtyü-

 

pluralgratuities

Synonyms of gratuity

: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service

especially : TIP

added a gratuity for the server

Good thing that Carnival crew is paid as they are or we would be paying Seabourn fares.  Given there is no health care or retirement for crew after ending their contracts, I hope crew assigned to the smoking venues are the highest tipped.  

[kdr69]

On 2/12/2023 at 7:40 AM, resetjet said:

We therefore took the $70 off the bill and gave him the &70 on cash plus our normal extra.

Which he would have turned over to the pool to be split as per normal so you really only gave him the same tip he would have gotten had you left it as it was plus your normal extra.  All that work same outcome.....

[sparks1093]

7 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

Which he would have turned over to the pool to be split as per normal so you really only gave him the same tip he would have gotten had you left it as it was plus your normal extra.  All that work same outcome.....

And one thought that I had after the last time I posted on this, they will need to deal with this on the little time off they are given. So instead of having some down time they have to take the time to go to wherever they need to go in order to turn this in, maybe even having to wait in line in order to deal with it. 

[llachance]

Carnival cruise this past July.  Asked for morning service got morning service.  Carnival cruise in October (in a suite) asked for morning service and sometimes had service by dinnertime.  I also didn't like the fact that the couch was left as a bed the entire time but since I didn't ever see the room attendant chose not to deal with it.  Going on Royal Carib next it will be interesting to see how things are handled there.

[justafem]

4 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

Good thing that Carnival crew is paid as they are or we would be paying Seabourn fares.  Given there is no health care or retirement for crew after ending their contracts, I hope crew assigned to the smoking venues are the highest tipped.  

Seabourn doesn't pay their employees more than other cruise lines.  Average wage is $32k - $63k (Estimated *)$45,862, with starting wages at $18,500.  And remember, gratuities are included in Seabourn fares, so there's no additional tip wages.  Then remember, Seabourn frowns on additional tipping.  

 

70+% of the crew smokes.  You just don't know it. 

[Elaine5715]

33 minutes ago, justafem said:

Seabourn doesn't pay their employees more than other cruise lines.  Average wage is $32k - $63k (Estimated *)$45,862, with starting wages at $18,500.  And remember, gratuities are included in Seabourn fares, so there's no additional tip wages.  Then remember, Seabourn frowns on additional tipping.  

 

70+% of the crew smokes.  You just don't know it. 

That was the point.  Seabourn includes grats as part of the salaries and cruise fares are significantly higher than Carnival.  By your own statistics, 30% of the crew doesn't smoke.  

[justafem]

5 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

That was the point.  Seabourn includes grats as part of the salaries and cruise fares are significantly higher than Carnival.  By your own statistics, 30% of the crew doesn't smoke.  

My point was that luxury lines don't pay their employees much more than the base pay from main-line cruise operators.  Especially at the $18,500 'starting' wage.  That's the same BASE starting wage as carnival.  

 

The increase in cruise fare is NOT going to the customer facing employees.  

 

The lowest level employees are actually making less money on Seabourn.  

[ProgRockCruiser]

8 hours ago, ray98 said:

I don't know how these topics always trend towards taxes.  Many of these workers pay no taxes.

One more time, with feeling:

 

The analogy of taxes (paid by US land-based waitstaff) was just an example to explain that what you see on the surface is not what is true throughout.  It was not attempting to equivalate the Tips you give (or don't give) to your housekeeping staff on board a Carnival (or other brand) cruise to the taxes paid by US land-based workers.

 

Basically, that "$35" doesn't go to just the Room Steward, it is likely shared amongst the "team" associated with that person, including the assistant(s), and other housekeeping team members (like maybe the laundry room staff).  By removing it and handing over the cash equivalent, you may be disrupting the "ecosystem" of how tips are distributed, and harming more than hurting.

[ray98]

1 minute ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

One more time, with feeling:

 

The analogy of taxes (paid by US land-based waitstaff) was just an example to explain that what you see on the surface is not what is true throughout.  It was not attempting to equivalate the Tips you give (or don't give) to your housekeeping staff on board a Carnival (or other brand) cruise to the taxes paid by US land-based workers.

 

Basically, that "$35" doesn't go to just the Room Steward, it is likely shared amongst the "team" associated with that person, including the assistant(s), and other housekeeping team members (like maybe the laundry room staff).  By removing it and handing over the cash equivalent, you may be disrupting the "ecosystem" of how tips are distributed, and harming more than hurting.

Except I didn't quote or even mention you....take a breath....with feeling.

[resetjet]

2 hours ago, kdr69 said:

Which he would have turned over to the pool to be split as per normal so you really only gave him the same tip he would have gotten had you left it as it was plus your normal extra.  All that work same outcome.....

No i gave him much more.  What he turns in is up to him.  I cannot control that process.   But in my eyes i took care of the guy who took care of me and 35 other rooms virtually by himself.  I can see how frustrated they are by this change.  Many will quit i am afraid.  

[Elaine5715]

37 minutes ago, justafem said:

My point was that luxury lines don't pay their employees much more than the base pay from main-line cruise operators.  Especially at the $18,500 'starting' wage.  That's the same BASE starting wage as carnival.  

 

The increase in cruise fare is NOT going to the customer facing employees.  

 

The lowest level employees are actually making less money on Seabourn.  

The fact they simply have a price point high enough that includes all, whether that goes to guest forward employees or not, and guests do not have the option of lowering their costs by removing tips.  Whenever businesses "help" by including fees, the increase is never just the stand alone cost.  

[canes20]

8 minutes ago, resetjet said:

No i gave him much more.  What he turns in is up to him.  I cannot control that process.   But in my eyes i took care of the guy who took care of me and 35 other rooms virtually by himself.  I can see how frustrated they are by this change.  Many will quit i am afraid.  

Quit and do what?

 

[Elaine5715]

11 minutes ago, resetjet said:

No i gave him much more.  What he turns in is up to him.  I cannot control that process.   But in my eyes i took care of the guy who took care of me and 35 other rooms virtually by himself.  I can see how frustrated they are by this change.  Many will quit i am afraid.  

He turned it all in.  That is what good employees do.  

Edited February 13, 2023 by Elaine5715

[lazydayz]

I must say I preferred the old way, when they gave us envelopes and let us decide who to tip and how much.  While at first the auto tips made it easier, they kept slipping in more people who the tips were going to.  When I go on vacation, I expect to tip servers, bartenders, housekeepers, and valet, but not every person who happens to work there.  What happened to the employer's responsibility to pay their staff a decent wage?  In effect, Carnival and other cruise lines have shifted that responsibility to us.  And yes, I understand, the customers are the ones ultimately funding the payment of salaries, but I think the cruise lines who don't include tips are just trying to fool us into thinking their fares are lower.  

 

I go along with the newer system, but do think it is unfair.  So on top of the auto tips, we add extra for the room steward and others who have actually served us well.  

[Elaine5715]

32 minutes ago, lazydayz said:

I must say I preferred the old way, when they gave us envelopes and let us decide who to tip and how much.  While at first the auto tips made it easier, they kept slipping in more people who the tips were going to.  When I go on vacation, I expect to tip servers, bartenders, housekeepers, and valet, but not every person who happens to work there.  What happened to the employer's responsibility to pay their staff a decent wage?  In effect, Carnival and other cruise lines have shifted that responsibility to us.  And yes, I understand, the customers are the ones ultimately funding the payment of salaries, but I think the cruise lines who don't include tips are just trying to fool us into thinking their fares are lower.  

 

I go along with the newer system, but do think it is unfair.  So on top of the auto tips, we add extra for the room steward and others who have actually served us well.  

Unfair?  To who?  The auto tips make for a much more equitable division and alleviates the discomfort many guests feel when settling up at the end of the cruise.  Room stewards don't need to stand awkwardly in the hallway hoping each cabin would show up.  Half the dining room used to be empty the last night.  Servers who pulled Lido/lunch/breakfast  get a allocation from the auto tips that they didn't prior.  Crew don't need to tip out as much.  A guest may have thought giving $60 to their lead waiter for their table of six was a generous tip for a 7 day cruise not being aware that went to 3 crew members.   

[joyful34]

John Heald has said multiple times that cash tips to any crew member ARE NOT pooled with others. I mean honestly how the heck would anyone know if I cash tipped my cabin stew unless he/she told & why would they tell a soul if they had to surrender it?? 

[Joebucks]

This is the outcome of the constant "everyone is allowed to have their own opinion."

 

Please, do not under any circumstance, touch your auto-gratuities. These people work hard, and there is a system that has already been thought out. Far more than your Google search with whatever idea you got in your head. If you think someone deserves more, then give them more. I'll be honest though, I rarely give more. I sleep quite well at night leaving my gratuities as-is and not being a jerk to them/requiring extra work.

[resetjet]

I see in the near future one of the main cruise lines changing the model.  If i were the guy in charge i would simply add the tip amount($100 a week). To the fare. Continue to pay everyone as they do now and encourage old school cash  tipping.  The other carriers employees would flock in and you would have a fully staffed crew.  I predict royal will be the first.   The current program is not working anymore. 

[RD64]

2 hours ago, joyful34 said:

John Heald has said multiple times that cash tips to any crew member ARE NOT pooled with others. I mean honestly how the heck would anyone know if I cash tipped my cabin stew unless he/she told & why would they tell a soul if they had to surrender it?? 

John Heald is also saying that you should be giving baseball hats and keychains to the crew to say thank you.

[Elaine5715]

2 hours ago, joyful34 said:

John Heald has said multiple times that cash tips to any crew member ARE NOT pooled with others. I mean honestly how the heck would anyone know if I cash tipped my cabin stew unless he/she told & why would they tell a soul if they had to surrender it?? 

Beside when they are caught and they will be caught, will be ostracized to the point, they will not return at end of contract.  Land restaurant coworkers know who is dishonest and they don't live with the cheaters.  

[Elaine5715]

11 minutes ago, resetjet said:

I see in the near future one of the main cruise lines changing the model.  If i were the guy in charge i would simply add the tip amount($100 a week). To the fare. Continue to pay everyone as they do now and encourage old school cash  tipping.  The other carriers employees would flock in and you would have a fully staffed crew.  I predict royal will be the first.   The current program is not working anymore. 

They aren't changing a thing.  The tipping system isn't going away.  I am sure with the auto tips, the crew has seen an increase, not a decrease in wages.  "Old school cash  tips" made it easy for cheapskates to skate and with many people using cashless payments, a whole new group of guests can shrug their shoulders and say "Don't have no cash, oops". 

[ruru107]

Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but do you really need your room cleaned twice a day? 

[RD64]

9 minutes ago, ruru107 said:

Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but do you really need your room cleaned twice a day? 

Yes - to each his own. Why do you care if I want my room cleaned once or seventeen times?

Edited February 14, 2023 by RD64