New houskeeping and tipping

[mz-s]

29 minutes ago, EngIceDave said:

Think of this logic...

 

You go to Disney World, go all through the park, but you decide that the only person who deserves to be paid is that one girl who buckled your seat belt on Space Mountain for you.

 

She deserves it because she was hands on with you.

 

Never mind all the people who run the ride, secures your safety, it's cleanliness and assists that young lady who helped you.

 

But only she is to be paid.

 

false equivalency

[EngIceDave]

7 minutes ago, mz-s said:

false equivalency

If you say so, that's fine and we disagree.

 

Making a judgement call on who gets what when having zero details on what happens behind the scenes seems....well, words I shouldn't say here....well, ok....seems poopy...it's poopy.....it is.

 

It's just wrong. Did you know that when you stiff a waitress, you stiff the busboy too? Did you know BOTH still have to pay taxes on the money you didn't give them? Yup, they do. Percentage of your tab is what determines their taxable tip amount.

Nope, it's not the same, but the point is, you're hurting people you don't see.

 

Believe what you want, do what you want, free country.

[Bostwick girl]

I guess it depends on which ship you are on. Just got off Magic yesterday, probably 5 or 6 times since restart. Our cabin attendant has asked us every time if we want morning or evening cleaning! The attendants are in my opinion, the hardest working crew. They deserve every cent they get, plus I give both attendants extra tip. 
 

[Illbcruzn4life]

29 minutes ago, mz-s said:

false equivalency

did you steal that from Blerk? lol

 

I was going to say bad analogy but I like your post better.🙂

[chengkp75]

12 minutes ago, EngIceDave said:

Did you know BOTH still have to pay taxes on the money you didn't give them? Yup, they do. Percentage of your tab is what determines their taxable tip amount.

This is not the way I read the tax laws.  The employee reports and pays taxes on tips actually received.  If the reported tips are less than 8% of the employer's gross sales, the employer has to "allocate" (or pay) the employee the amount under 8%.  The employee then pays taxes on the "allocated" tips, but they don't pay taxes on an amount they didn't receive.  The 8% figure is well below the standard US tipping rate, so if you stiff the waiter, he will receive 8% from the employer, and pay taxes on that, but not for any amount he/she did not receive.

[simplelife]

9 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

This is not the way I read the tax laws.  The employee reports and pays taxes on tips actually received.  If the reported tips are less than 8% of the employer's gross sales, the employer has to "allocate" (or pay) the employee the amount under 8%.  The employee then pays taxes on the "allocated" tips, but they don't pay taxes on an amount they didn't receive.  The 8% figure is well below the standard US tipping rate, so if you stiff the waiter, he will receive 8% from the employer, and pay taxes on that, but not for any amount he/she did not receive.

These laws apply to the food service industry

[mz-s]

I have personally never had a cabin steward on a Carnival ship that worked in the US food service industry so I am confused how that's relevant?

[EngIceDave]

5 minutes ago, mz-s said:

I have personally never had a cabin steward on a Carnival ship that worked in the US food service industry so I am confused how that's relevant?

 

 

Because you may be hurting them and others in ways you are unaware.

 

[mz-s]

4 minutes ago, EngIceDave said:

 

 

Because you may be hurting them and others in ways you are unaware.

 

 

But yet again it is a false equivalence because for one thing - nobody on the housekeeping staff on a Carnival ship pays US taxes.

[Theosprey247]

Didn’t we just have a multipage thread on this just a couple of days ago?

[EngIceDave]

1 minute ago, mz-s said:

 

But yet again it is a false equivalence because for one thing - nobody on the housekeeping staff on a Carnival ship pays US taxes.

You don't want to understand it.

Decisions can have unintended consequences due to a lack of information.

 

 

[mz-s]

1 minute ago, Theosprey247 said:

Didn’t we just have a multipage thread on this just a couple of days ago?

 

thank you for reminding me - my doctor told me the next one of these threads he's going to have to put me on an ACE inhibitor! so I've got to check out of this thread. thanks!

[canes20]

41 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

This is not the way I read the tax laws.  The employee reports and pays taxes on tips actually received.  If the reported tips are less than 8% of the employer's gross sales, the employer has to "allocate" (or pay) the employee the amount under 8%.  The employee then pays taxes on the "allocated" tips, but they don't pay taxes on an amount they didn't receive.  The 8% figure is well below the standard US tipping rate, so if you stiff the waiter, he will receive 8% from the employer, and pay taxes on that, but not for any amount he/she did not receive.

If the employee reports the tips they earned, and it is not enough to put them above minimum wage for the hours that were worked, then the employer has to pay the amount needed to get to minimum wage.

[Emmcee1967]

Took a cruise on the Carnival Breeze in January, and our room steward asked if we preferred morning or night. I actually love that they are only cleaning once a day because it’s always so awkward if you get back and they are still in your room. I don’t know how many rooms our steward had to clean but I know she was a super busy lady and a hard worker. We pre-paid our gratuities, but I left her some extra money. Carnival really does have wonderful crew members. 

[resetjet]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Where did this number come from?  Besides, the only breakdown I've seen for Carnival DSC has been that a certain percentage goes to the "housekeeping team".  This team likely is not limited to your cabin steward, or even the assistant.  There are "hotel utilities" that do general clean up and errands around the ship, and the laundry crew as well.  The DSC pool on virtually every line has expanded beyond the guest facing crew.

The breakdown pops up on the hub app when you click on the gratuity.  It clearly says state room steward. This is in line with what was paid when we paid them cash years ago.  There is a line for alternative services as well.  Cheng you are the most knowledgeable person on this forum.  Do you have any lnowledge of how this actually works?

[Pellaz]

2 hours ago, mz-s said:

 

But yet again it is a false equivalence because for one thing - nobody on the housekeeping staff on a Carnival ship pays US taxes.

 

And also, housekeeping staff at U.S. hotels do not normally receive FREE room, board and medical services for months at a time.   

 

As for us, we leave the pre-paid grats intact, tip some cash to the stateroom attendant upon arrival, and tip some more at debark unless service was lousy...which has happened only once on Carnival in around 13 sailings.    (Alas, that has not always been the case for me on Royal.)  

[Elaine5715]

2 hours ago, mz-s said:

 

But yet again it is a false equivalence because for one thing - nobody on the housekeeping staff on a Carnival ship pays US taxes.

That may not be accurate.  Rare, but possible. There are US wait staff.

[Elaine5715]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

This is not the way I read the tax laws.  The employee reports and pays taxes on tips actually received.  If the reported tips are less than 8% of the employer's gross sales, the employer has to "allocate" (or pay) the employee the amount under 8%.  The employee then pays taxes on the "allocated" tips, but they don't pay taxes on an amount they didn't receive.  The 8% figure is well below the standard US tipping rate, so if you stiff the waiter, he will receive 8% from the employer, and pay taxes on that, but not for any amount he/she did not receive.

 

3 hours ago, simplelife said:

These laws apply to the food service industry

What is the tip allocation rate agreement?

Tip allocation rates are voluntary agreements between the IRS and employers where tipping is customary — such as the restaurant industry and casinos. The rates, which differ among employers, positions and shifts, are calculated from data provided by companies such that the IRS can project the amount of tips workers are likely to make in an hour. 

“[The IRS says] ‘We'll look at every single job in Las Vegas, every single shift … and identify separate and unique rates of what we think you would make in tips,” Pappageorge explained. “And if you agree to our rates, then you agree to pay taxes on the rate, and we will agree to not audit you … but we think they have made an overreach.”

According to the IRS website, the agreement is used to determine how to distribute tips to employees, which can ensure that employees earn minimum wage and encourage tax compliance by potentially making reporting income and tips simpler for employers. All cash and non-cash tips received by an employee are considered income and, thus, are subject to federal income taxes. 

The agreements are also voluntary for employees — workers can opt out of the tip allocation rate agreement but then must keep track of their tips or risk an audit.

[resetjet]

None of these employees are paying any US taxes. Registered in panama,  and whatever country they are from. Also

what happens in hotels and cruises is not the same.  Cruises offer the crew members a contract for a certain amount of money per month.  A base pay(very low).+ tips = monthly guarantee.  About $1200-$2000 per Month for a room steward.  Since the tips come up short(because they are dividing them up to everyone under the sun). The company makes up the difference.  So extra tips made on a cc just save the company money.  

Edited February 13, 2023 by resetjet

[kona_wahine]

My take is those people, and I don’t care if they work in the rooms, the restaurants, or clean around the ship, or wherever, are some of the most hardworking people I have ever seen. And all hours. I remember seeing a waiter we had at dinner cleaning tables at breakfast in the buffet the next morning. All they do is work! The gratuity is splits between all of them, not just given to your steward. Or your waiter. I always give extra to our steward, as they are who we interact the most with. We always have ATD so never have the same waiters so no extra tips there. I will NOT be removing anything! I just look at it as part of the cruise price. And shame shame shame on those who remove and don’t tip anything, or leave $20 and think they are good. 

[maintain242001]

1. They asked us in january what time we wanted ours cleaned so that was nice.

 

2. No they are definitely not cleaning as good as they used to.

 

3. This was the first cruise our steward never called us/adressed us by name, not even once the entire week and we are pretty easy people to deal with and have no extra requests.

 

4. If you think they earned more leave more do as you wish.

[Pika8347]

7 hours ago, EngIceDave said:

If you say so, that's fine and we disagree.

 

Making a judgement call on who gets what when having zero details on what happens behind the scenes seems....well, words I shouldn't say here....well, ok....seems poopy...it's poopy.....it is.

 

It's just wrong. Did you know that when you stiff a waitress, you stiff the busboy too? Did you know BOTH still have to pay taxes on the money you didn't give them? Yup, they do. Percentage of your tab is what determines their taxable tip amount.

Nope, it's not the same, but the point is, you're hurting people you don't see.

 

Believe what you want, do what you want, free country.

Wait. I thought there were no "taxes" taken out due to the off shore registry of the ship? This statement doesn't make sense. 

[EngIceDave]

1 minute ago, Pika8347 said:

Wait. I thought there were no "taxes" taken out due to the off shore registry of the ship? This statement doesn't make sense. 

I apologize, I really thought I was being clear.....

 

It's about making decisions where you may not know all the background details

 

I used the tax thing as an example of background things most people do not know.

 

Not sure how that's confusing, but I apologize.

[ray98]

I don't know how these topics always trend towards taxes.  Many of these workers pay no taxes.  Their home countries do not tax them because the contracts are long enough they are considered non-resident citizens.

 

Take the Philippines for example....

 

REVENUE REGULATION NO. 9-99

INCOME TAXATION OF NON-RESIDENT CITIZENS

 

 

Q: Who is a non-resident citizen?

 

A: A Filipino non-resident is someone who:

 

• Leaves the Philippines to reside abroad either as an immigrant or for employment on a permanent basis
• Works and derives income from abroad and such employment requires him to be physically present abroad most of the time during the year.
• Establishes that fact of his physical presence abroad with a definite intention to reside therein. Some of the factors that the BIR Commissioner considers in establishing the residence of a citizen are:

 

1. 1. the number of days that an individual stayed abroad during the year i.e if he was out of the country for six months or a longer period during the year;
   2. the existence of a permanent home in the Philippines;
   3. the existence of economic and other connections in the country.

 

 

• Has been previously considered as a non-resident citizen and he stays in the Philippines to reside in the country permanently. The income that he earned abroad prior to his residence in the Philippines is not taxable under the Philippine tax laws.

 

 

Q: How are non-resident citizens taxed?

 

A: A non-resident citizen is taxable only on his income that is earned from sources within the Philippines. Income that was derived from abroad is not subject to the Philippine income tax.

 

For example, a Filipino immigrant who works for a computer company in London is exempt from paying the Philippine income tax on his London salary. However, his rental income, interest income, or other income from the Philippines are subject to income tax.

 

 

Q: How are overseas contract workers taxed?

 

A: A Filipino who is working as an overseas contract workers is exempt from paying the Philippine income tax on his foreign income. He should only pay an income tax on any income that was earned from sources within the Philippines.

 

A Filipino working as a seaman and who receives compensation for services performed abroad as a member of the complement of a vessel engaged exclusively in international trade is treated as an overseas contract worker.

 

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by ray98

[sparks1093]

15 hours ago, EngIceDave said:

If you say so, that's fine and we disagree.

 

Making a judgement call on who gets what when having zero details on what happens behind the scenes seems....well, words I shouldn't say here....well, ok....seems poopy...it's poopy.....it is.

 

It's just wrong. Did you know that when you stiff a waitress, you stiff the busboy too? Did you know BOTH still have to pay taxes on the money you didn't give them? Yup, they do. Percentage of your tab is what determines their taxable tip amount.

Nope, it's not the same, but the point is, you're hurting people you don't see.

 

Believe what you want, do what you want, free country.

This is one of the benefits of using a tip pool for the employees, it minimizes the effect of people that leave no tip or under tip (and it also evens out the effect of empty cabins). I believe that Carnival uses a tip pool, based on a lot of reading and my own knowledge of how things work, so doing simple math to determine how much your steward is making doesn't work. At least Carnival allows staff to keep any tips given over and above the auto gratuity amount, in some establishments all tips go into the pool. While I understand why some folks like to remove the tips and leave the same amount in cash they are just making more work for themselves and for the staff. Since I think the staff works hard enough I don't want to add to their work load.