Are NCL selling cruises to ports they have no intention of going to.

[The Traveling Man]

2 hours ago, CILCIANRQTS said:

 

”Most men lead lives of quiet desperation.” - Thoreau

Actually, the quotation is "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation."

[dexddd]

FWIW, the whole changes to inside passage sailings has been going on for years.  Why it changes, no idea, but there have been numerous complaints about that one.  More recently, from reports here, missed or changed ports with no refunds has increased dramatically.

[CruiseMH]

17 hours ago, CILCIANRQTS said:

The T&C’s are morally reprehensible, so just accept them…

Interesting approach to the issue.🤔🤔

 

there are two options that make sense:

 

1. Accept them(but then one should not complain,whine or moan about them)

2. not accept them and use another cruise line.

If nobody uses a cruise line because of morally reprehensible behavior this is the only way to have a chance that they will change their behavior.

 

 

[chengkp75]

30 minutes ago, dexddd said:

FWIW, the whole changes to inside passage sailings has been going on for years.  Why it changes, no idea, but there have been numerous complaints about that one.  More recently, from reports here, missed or changed ports with no refunds has increased dramatically.

A major reason for excluding the southern Inside Passage (Vancouver Island) is the pilotage fee, which generally runs around $10k+ for a cruise ship.

[CILCIANRQTS]

32 minutes ago, CruiseMH said:

 

there are two options that make sense:

 

1. Accept them(but then one should not complain,whine or moan about them)

2. not accept them and use another cruise line.

If nobody uses a cruise line because of morally reprehensible behavior this is the only way to have a chance that they will change their behavior.

 

 

So we’re back to take it or leave it.

[CruiseMH]

4 hours ago, CILCIANRQTS said:

So we’re back to take it or leave it.

Yes,exactly.

Do you have a better, but also workable suggestion?

[CILCIANRQTS]

50 minutes ago, CruiseMH said:

Yes,exactly.

Do you have a better, but also workable suggestion?

No, I think we should all just accept whatever NCL wants to do to us. 🙄🙄

Edited March 4, 2023 by CILCIANRQTS

[CruiseMH]

16 hours ago, CILCIANRQTS said:

No, I think we should all just accept whatever NCL wants to do to us. 🙄🙄

Maybe i`m a little bit more relaxed in these regards cause in germany we are quite good protected by law in regards of such changes.(not only itineraries on cruises but also for "regular" round trips by bus or any other vehicle) .If the itinerary changes are so big that they do "change the character of the journey"(original text of the law) we do have the right to cancel the trip in advance or(if itinerary changed while on board) get a refund of a part of the cruise fare afterwards.

It is not clear what " changing the character of the journey" exactly means but in worst case it has to be decided by the judges in a lawsuit.

 

[CILCIANRQTS]

16 minutes ago, CruiseMH said:

Maybe i`m a little bit more relaxed in these regards cause in germany we are quite good protected by law in regards of such changes.(not only itineraries on cruises but also for "regular" round trips by bus or any other vehicle) .If the itinerary changes are so big that they do "change the character of the journey"(original text of the law) we do have the right to cancel the trip in advance or(if itinerary changed while on board) get a refund of a part of the cruise fare afterwards.

It is not clear what " changing the character of the journey" exactly means but in worst case it has to be decided by the judges in a lawsuit.

 

I wish we had the same protection!
Danke.

[LloydJr]

On 3/4/2023 at 10:08 AM, chengkp75 said:

A major reason for excluding the southern Inside Passage (Vancouver Island) is the pilotage fee, which generally runs around $10k+ for a cruise ship.

So, a couple bucks per passenger?  That seems to be penny wise and pound foolish.

[Joken35]

On 2/27/2023 at 7:29 PM, luv2kroooz said:

I dont think anyone disputes this. The question asked is whether or not they are advertising itineraries and ports of call that they have no intention of operating. Are they exercising their right to do exactly what you've posted?

Last November we booked Cruise on the Getaway which showed a stop at Puerto Plata in the DR. NCL sent out a few emails stating the port would be cancelled. Had it not been for this site many people would not have known about the change in Itinerary .When for I called NCL  they said no change in itinerary until I told her about the info on the site. THEN… she changed her story. N L had the port on the advertisement until one week  efore sailing. SO terms and conditions in this case and many others strategically works against us.

[bonvoyagie]

On 3/4/2023 at 9:08 AM, chengkp75 said:

A major reason for excluding the southern Inside Passage (Vancouver Island) is the pilotage fee, which generally runs around $10k+ for a cruise ship.

Either direction they must have a pilot onboard for both the Strait of Juan de Fuca and AK , Somewhere near Port Angeles they drop one pilot and pick up the other. The AK pilot is onboard for the entire time the ship is in AK waters and even on the outside of Vancouver Island.

[kitkat343]

17 hours ago, Joken35 said:

Last November we booked Cruise on the Getaway which showed a stop at Puerto Plata in the DR. NCL sent out a few emails stating the port would be cancelled. Had it not been for this site many people would not have known about the change in Itinerary .When for I called NCL  they said no change in itinerary until I told her about the info on the site. THEN… she changed her story. N L had the port on the advertisement until one week  efore sailing. SO terms and conditions in this case and many others strategically works against us.

They did this again in January, and also kept advertising the cruise as going to the DR after the stop was cancelled.  People who booked after the change even by calling NCL weren't told of the change, nor were they allowed to cancel because it all happened after final payment. 

[PTC DAWG]

On 3/5/2023 at 10:42 AM, CruiseMH said:

Maybe i`m a little bit more relaxed in these regards cause in germany we are quite good protected by law in regards of such changes.(not only itineraries on cruises but also for "regular" round trips by bus or any other vehicle) .If the itinerary changes are so big that they do "change the character of the journey"(original text of the law) we do have the right to cancel the trip in advance or(if itinerary changed while on board) get a refund of a part of the cruise fare afterwards.

It is not clear what " changing the character of the journey" exactly means but in worst case it has to be decided by the judges in a lawsuit.

 

I don’t need a Govt to protect me from stuff like that…sounds like overreach to me.  

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, bonvoyagie said:

Either direction they must have a pilot onboard for both the Strait of Juan de Fuca and AK , Somewhere near Port Angeles they drop one pilot and pick up the other. The AK pilot is onboard for the entire time the ship is in AK waters and even on the outside of Vancouver Island.

But, the pilot is not on duty while the ship is outside of Vancouver Island, or in many areas of Alaska waters that are not restricted waterways.  That is a transportation cost with the pilots, since there are no acceptable pilot stations in the southern panhandle of Alaska.  There are different payment schedules for simple transportation of the pilot and for his "bridge watch" hours.  Going inside Vancouver Island would also require the Alaska pilot to be transported from Vancouver (based out of Port Angeles), but would also require the Canadian pilot to remain onboard, and on duty for the entire transit inside, up to the north end of Vancouver Island.

[negn]

I’m on a Princess cruise now.   We skipped Bonair after 2 attempts to dock due to the wind shear.   Today was suppose to be Aruba but we’re in Curaco.   Last fall on NCL, whole cruise switched from western to eastern Caribbean.  Again weather related.    When you cruise you roll with the punches

[graphicguy]

On 2/27/2023 at 5:00 PM, mking8288 said:

One strategy that we are adopted and going to deploy more, book "last" minute (hence, inside final payment/cancellation deadline - watch for coded words or phrases "unforeseen changes" on a # of related roll calls & similar port and itinerary schedules with the cruiseline - before we book as a non-refundable.  This doesn't work for many with vacations and holidays, school breaks for families with children & teens, etc. that are often "locked" into a specific cruise calendar or time period.  

 

And, some of us know about those "tricky" moves with port fees & misc charges being converted, sometimes, to non-refundable OBC while at sea.  Without naming ports involved, some of us have a pretty good idea of the most "probable" port stops to be smacked with cancellations.  

 

As for the NCL cheerleaders that frequently surf here, I make good use of the ignore button, they are free to comment and question, and the best response - silence, don't even acknowledge them and don't "quote" the post at all.  Works for me.  

I concur about booking "last minute".  I understand why some don't want to.  But, it's harder for any cruise line to make itinerary changes the closer the sailing date gets.  There's a lot of planning, clearances and permits that have to be secured to accommodate a 150,000 ton, 4,000 guest ship.  If there's one thing we know for certain, if a port is changed or skipped, it's a fair assumption that the cruise company would lose money from the changes due to the loss of all those payments to the localities in question.  In short, they don't want to do that, unless they absolutely have to.

 

As far as the rest, I agree about the "ignore" feature.  I've only blocked one person, but my posting was imminently more pleasurable once I DID put him (or her) on ignore.

[luv2kroooz]

31 minutes ago, negn said:

I’m on a Princess cruise now.   We skipped Bonair after 2 attempts to dock due to the wind shear.   Today was suppose to be Aruba but we’re in Curaco.   Last fall on NCL, whole cruise switched from western to eastern Caribbean.  Again weather related.    When you cruise you roll with the punches

Totally agree with the fact pattern you present. Weather happens, port strikes happen, mechanical issues happen. Safety is of highest importance. What is being reported here is knowingly marketing ports of call that NCL has no intention of going to. That's a 180 difference from an unforeseen itinerary changes due to weather.

[mking8288]

5 hours ago, graphicguy said:

There's a lot of planning, clearances and permits that have to be secured to accommodate a 150,000 ton, 4,000 guest ship.  If there's one thing we know for certain, if a port is changed or skipped, it's a fair assumption that the cruise company would lose money from the changes due to the loss of all those payments to the localities in question.  In short, they don't want to do that, unless they absolutely have to.

Hey, how are you - I see you are branching out to other lines these days, nice.  

 

From that Semi-Live report earlier this afternoon, the Getaway just informed the guests onboard that they are cancelling tomorrow's stop at DR again (whether it's Amber Cove or the Bay, not important, perhaps) citing weather ... heading home early with 3 full sea days.  Cruisemapper showed the GEM racing at 21 knots to catch up with the bigger sister ship doing 20 knots, no chance of them going to Bermuda.  The localities, including businesses & tour partners are losing out again - NCL got more meals to prepare for all those on the ship, not going anywhere and that's not really a win-win situation and I don't see how this is going to help their corporate bottom line or balance sheets, or to sail and sustain.  

 

Both the GA and Gem showing ETA of 10:00 this Friday, 3/10 in NY ... and, that's "late" as they used to be consistently early for arrival & disembarkation.  Probably to read more about these in the coming days.  

 

 

[mking8288]

More unforeseen changes today, per "Cruise Industry News" - regarding an upcoming Joy sailing (March 11th) and Sky (April 13)   

NCL stated: “It is always our intention to maintain original itineraries. However, at times, unforeseen circumstances require us to make modifications,” due to port congestion ...  A boilerplate template language being used on an infrequent but regular basis lately, me thinks   😉 😕   2023 Hurricane season is almost around the corner.  Norwegian Cruise Line explained.

https://cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/2023/03/norwegian-changes-caribbean-itinerary-due-to-port-congestion/

 

IMHO, a solid "cancel for any reasons" coverage on top of a good travel/trip interruption and travel insurance by a reliable independent insurance broker or agency should be considered.   Or, book the best available, inexpensive NCL cruise and consider that as an exclusive "almost cruise to nowhere" sailing, and make the ship itself, your vacation destination and highlight.  Pricing are all over the place lately ... just learned that they are "dumping" cabins via their land-based casino partners here in the Northeast with almost free giveaways, filling up ships selectively - that, along with partial charters. 

 

[eileeshb]

On 3/6/2023 at 8:30 PM, PTC DAWG said:

I don’t need a Govt to protect me from stuff like that…sounds like overreach to me.  

 

On 3/5/2023 at 3:42 PM, CruiseMH said:

Maybe i`m a little bit more relaxed in these regards cause in germany we are quite good protected by law in regards of such changes.(not only itineraries on cruises but also for "regular" round trips by bus or any other vehicle) .If the itinerary changes are so big that they do "change the character of the journey"(original text of the law) we do have the right to cancel the trip in advance or(if itinerary changed while on board) get a refund of a part of the cruise fare afterwards.

It is not clear what " changing the character of the journey" exactly means but in worst case it has to be decided by the judges in a lawsuit.

 

I don’t see EU laws around travel as government overreach, they are necessary protection measures to stop travel companies being complete rip-off merchants.  If the EU hadn’t stepped up consumer protection in the air travel sector Ryanair would be leaving people abandoned at airports all over Europe anytime a plane got delayed. 

There are a few consumer protection laws around travel and advertising in the EU. The advertising of known to be incorrect itineraries could land NCL in serious hot water as false advertising regardless of T&Cs. Flights involving EU destinations also come with a bunch of protection such that the airline has to get you a replacement flight/refund/compensation for a cancellation or any delay more than a couple of hours.  
 

I have noticed when doing some mock bookings lately that a dialog box has popped up to say there are itinerary changes on a specific date I’ve looked at and a reminder to check those changes before paying a deposit. I don’t know if that is solely a feature on the European version of their website or not, or even if the changes are all correct as I didn’t dig too deeply. 
 

I check this forum regularly to see if there’s any gotchas on the horizon and having experienced an itinerary involving GSC myself I will never book an itinerary where that is one of only 2 ports of call and especially so if it’s on a breakaway/+ class ship after the shambolic management of the tender process I experienced. 
 

 

[cruiseny4life]

11 hours ago, eileeshb said:

I have noticed when doing some mock bookings lately that a dialog box has popped up to say there are itinerary changes on a specific date I’ve looked at and a reminder to check those changes before paying a deposit. I don’t know if that is solely a feature on the European version of their website or not, or even if the changes are all correct as I didn’t dig too deeply. 

I have noticed this dialog box when doing mock bookings on the US site as well. It's happened a few times, so I don't know to what extent it occurs or what triggers it. 

[CruiseMH]

16 hours ago, eileeshb said:

 

 Flights involving EU destinations also come with a bunch of protection such that the airline has to get you a replacement flight/refund/compensation for a cancellation or any delay more than a couple of hours.  
 

 

Just a short additional note.For flights from outside the EU into the EU it is only applicable for EU-based airlines.

From the EU to a non-EU country it is valid for all airlines.

 

[cara-cruiser]

we are booked at NCL Star for a greenland cruise in 08/23. Currently we have received a itinerary change. Greenland and the scoresby sound will be canceld. "Due to newly imposed vessel restrictions in Ittoqqortoormiit, Greenland".

They don't provide a refund or FCC. We are deeply disappointed.

[DCGuy64]

53 minutes ago, cara-cruiser said:

We are deeply disappointed.

As well you should be. I think that countries like Greenland who start restricting entry to ships like this are going to regret it in the long run. Just my opinion, of course.