Passenger Survey

[tring]

6 hours ago, Mad4WDW said:

Well for a start I guess its ok to judge a publication based on my view of a tiny part of it because the part of the publication in question made the same kind of judgement of an industry based on the tiny part they saw.

 

From what I saw it was badly researched, it quoted prices that were incorrect, Princess were misrepresented especially. If your article headline is " Why it pays to go on an all-inclusive cruise" then you should at least check your price information is correct. 

 

DH is a Which member and I have seen the full report on the which website.  I feel there is some misunderstanding as to how which reports work.  As shown in the table posted on this thread, the price column is headed "Indicative prices per night".  If you read the print below the table posted at the top of this thread, you will see prices are taken as the brochure price of a balcony cabin for a Med/Norway cruise in June/July 2023.  We all know prices paid can be very different due to fluid pricing and also according to itinerary, but at least there is clarity on where the prices were obtained. Overall the "luxury lines" are priced higher than the mass market lines and are also rated higher overall, which is what would be expected, so no surprise there.  It also refers to value for money - regards say kitchen appliances it is not only the higher priced/quality items that are in the "Which recommended Best Buys",  taking into account prices as well as reliability and other factors.  The different columns give some indication of various things, so it is easy to look at each heading, decide what is important for you and see the star rating given for each - after all not everyone will have the same preferences.  The which tables again for other items (e.g. kitchen appliances ) are broken down to show which factor was better in which appliance in their lab tests along with the spec for each appliance - so easy to work out what is best for you.  This IMO is a tool that can be one way of gaining some insight into various products.  If people wish to research anything they are going to purchase they have the choice to use whatever information/opinions that they choose, or none at all, that is entirely their choice. We regularly read reviews etc. before booking hotels, for example, and whilst not taking individual reviews too seriously, if we read thirty reviews, we feel we will have more information on which to make our decision - again that is our choice.  We will be booking car hire for a Canary island within the next week and similarly we read reviews on the net this morning which helped us make our decision on a company to book with. 

 

The passage quoted below, taken from the which website, gives a better explanation of what they were looking for in "Which Recommended Providers", just four companies got that status from the whole table:-

 

"What makes a Which? Recommended Provider? Cruise line

Which? Recommended Providers (WRPs) are the cream of the crop and, as a minimum, we only consider giving the accolade to cruise lines with the highest customer scores.

That’s not all. We know that pricing transparency is important, so we only make a company a WRP if it provides clear information about gratuities, excursions and drinks at the booking stage. After all, it's hard for customers to compare prices if they can't find these details before parting with their cash. This year, WRP was withheld from Seabourn and Oceania due to lack of clarity on tipping and drinks costs.

All our Which? Recommended Providers also scored at least four out of five stars for both customer service and that all important passenger-to-space ratio.

Which? is independent. You can be sure that our recommendations are influenced only by our survey results and policy analysis. We're not influenced by third parties and we don't accept freebies from product manufacturers, retailers, or providers."

 

Edited March 5, 2023 by tring

[wowzz]

25 minutes ago, tring said:

 

DH is a Which member and I have seen the full report on the which website.  I feel there is some misunderstanding as to how which reports work.  As shown in the table posted on this thread, the price column is headed "Indicative prices per night".  If you read the print below the table posted at the top of this thread, you will see prices are taken as the brochure price of a balcony cabin for a Med/Norway cruise in June/July 2023.  We all know prices paid can be very different due to fluid pricing and also according to itinerary, but at least there is clarity on where the prices were obtained. Overall the "luxury lines" are priced higher than the mass market lines and are also rated higher overall, which is what would be expected, so no surprise there.  It also refers to value for money - regards say kitchen appliances it is not only the higher priced/quality items that are in the "Which recommended Best Buys",  taking into account prices as well as reliability and other factors.  The different columns give some indication of various things, so it is easy to look at each heading, decide what is important for you and see the star rating given for each - after all not everyone will have the same preferences.  The which tables again for other items (e.g. kitchen appliances ) are broken down to show which factor was better in which appliance in their lab tests along with the spec for each appliance - so easy to work out what is best for you.  This IMO is a tool that can be one way of gaining some insight into various products.  If people wish to research anything they are going to purchase they have the choice to use whatever information/opinions that they choose, or none at all, that is entirely their choice. We regularly read reviews etc. before booking hotels, for example, and whilst not taking individual reviews too seriously, if we read thirty reviews, we feel we will have more information on which to make our decision - again that is our choice.  We will be booking car hire for a Canary island within the next week and similarly we read reviews on the net this morning which helped us make our decision on a company to book with. 

 

The passage quoted below, taken from the which website, gives a better explanation of what they were looking for in "Which Recommended Providers", just four companies got that status from the whole table:-

 

"What makes a Which? Recommended Provider? Cruise line

Which? Recommended Providers (WRPs) are the cream of the crop and, as a minimum, we only consider giving the accolade to cruise lines with the highest customer scores.

That’s not all. We know that pricing transparency is important, so we only make a company a WRP if it provides clear information about gratuities, excursions and drinks at the booking stage. After all, it's hard for customers to compare prices if they can't find these details before parting with their cash. This year, WRP was withheld from Seabourn and Oceania due to lack of clarity on tipping and drinks costs.

All our Which? Recommended Providers also scored at least four out of five stars for both customer service and that all important passenger-to-space ratio.

Which? is independent. You can be sure that our recommendations are influenced only by our survey results and policy analysis. We're not influenced by third parties and we don't accept freebies from product manufacturers, retailers, or providers."

 

I'm sorry, but despite the length of your post,  it does nothing to remedy the fact that the survey is statistically flawed.

I hope your choice of car hire rental in the Canaries is based on more than Which reports.

One word - Autoreisen  ! 

[Harry Peterson]

6 hours ago, wowzz said:

I'm sorry, but despite the length of your post,  it does nothing to remedy the fact that the survey is statistically flawed.

I hope your choice of car hire rental in the Canaries is based on more than Which reports.

One word - Autoreisen  ! 

You have the view that the survey is statistically flawed, which is of course fine. But others will take the view that for the conclusions it draws (bearing in mind that it is just a survey) the views of 1727 members and non-members of Which? are perfectly adequate.

 

I take that view.  You don't.  That's just two of us.  I think you'll agree that that's far too small a sample from which to draw any statistically valid conclusions, so let's all just draw whatever conclusions we wish to draw from it without criticising the organisation that took the time to produce it - and publish it without charge to non-members.

 

It's limited in its scope, certainly, but it's genuinely independent research, it's cost non-members nothing, and it's better to some information out there than none at all.  You can of course just ignore it - others can form their own views.

[terrierjohn]

2 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

You have the view that the survey is statistically flawed, which is of course fine. But others will take the view that for the conclusions it draws (bearing in mind that it is just a survey) the views of 1727 members and non-members of Which? are perfectly adequate.

 

I take that view.  You don't.  That's just two of us.  I think you'll agree that that's far too small a sample from which to draw any statistically valid conclusions, so let's all just draw whatever conclusions we wish to draw from it without criticising the organisation that took the time to produce it - and publish it without charge to non-members.

 

It's limited in its scope, certainly, but it's genuinely independent research, it's cost non-members nothing, and it's better to some information out there than none at all.  You can of course just ignore it - others can form their own views.

But with such varied types of ship and cruise line unless you survey an extrememy large group you run the risk of exaggerating the built in bias of the different classes in their assessment of the service and quality. A far better survey would have structured the class of cruise lines and compared like for like, instead of lumping them all together.

[Cardiff girl]

10 hours ago, Britboys said:

The only thing I received after my cruise last summer was an invitation to do a Feefo review. P&O now seem more keen to get 4 or 5 star ratings on Feefo than getting real feedback about your experience...

I got the Feefo invite, which I ignored 🙄

[Host Sharon]

The Which report doesn't appear to have taken into account the fact that some lines, such as Silverseas, Saga and Regent are all-inclusive which makes a huge difference to value for money ratings.

[Harry Peterson]

1 hour ago, terrierjohn said:

But with such varied types of ship and cruise line unless you survey an extrememy large group you run the risk of exaggerating the built in bias of the different classes in their assessment of the service and quality. A far better survey would have structured the class of cruise lines and compared like for like, instead of lumping them all together.

I'm sure Which? would love to have the resources to take the opinions of 'an extremely large group', but since it's funded by its 600,000 or so members and doesn't purport to specialise in cruises that was never going to be possible was it?

 

It did what its resources permitted it to do, it chose to allow the general public to view the results, and as always people are perfectly at liberty to make their own decisions and draw their own conclusions.  

 

Frankly, it's better to have the survey as it is than not at all - there's nothing else, is there?

[tring]

45 minutes ago, Host Sharon said:

The Which report doesn't appear to have taken into account the fact that some lines, such as Silverseas, Saga and Regent are all-inclusive which makes a huge difference to value for money ratings.

 

Actually Saga were one of only four Recommended Providers, so did very well.  The value for money will be according to the opinion of the person answering the survey, though clarity was also taken into account.  Those three lines are all pretty pricey anyway, so would have to do incredibly well to be "value for money".  I am well aware that some people want to use the "perks" provided by Saga such as transfers, insurance and a few excursions (mainly coach tours from what I understand), so consider it to be good value, whilst others, (us included as we have no use of the included things), would not.  The P&O system of adding a large sum of OBC, that can be used for things we actually wish to purchase works far better for us.

 

The whole point is that it was never intended as a wide scale survey of all cruise lines - something which is not possible anyway IMO.  As I indicated in my previous post it is more comparable to a good number of reviews with an overall comparison of various elements of each product. one piece of information that can be taken along with information from elsewhere, or not,depending if an individual is interested.  Even then it is dependent upon the views of the people taking the survey as mentioned earlier by Harry.  We all know that overall views on this forum tend to have a certain bias which would not even be echoed by the average P&O cruiser nowadays, never mind the views of cruisers overall.  

  

Edited March 6, 2023 by tring

[tring]

10 hours ago, wowzz said:

 

I hope your choice of car hire rental in the Canaries is based on more than Which reports.

One word - Autoreisen  ! 

 

Autoreisen are airport pick up only in Lanzarote, which we only booked a couple of days ago.  We did have a bias towards Cicar who we have used to hire cars on port days in La Gomera and on one occasion when porting in El Hiero.  DH has now decided that is who he is going with as they have an offer of a Tipo for the price of a smaller car, saying, "It will be more like our own car and it will also have more pulling power".  I took that personally whilst wondering why a man in his 70's has such an interest in "pulling power" 🙂

 

 

 

[wowzz]

1 minute ago, tring said:

 

Autoreisen are airport pick up only in Lanzarote, which we only booked a couple of days ago.  We did have a bias towards Cicar who we have used to hire cars on port days in La Gomera and on one occasion when porting in El Hiero.  DH has now decided that is who he is going with as they have an offer of a Tipo for the price of a smaller car, saying, "It will be more like our own car and it will also have more pulling power".  I took that personally whilst wondering why a man in his 70's has such an interest in "pulling power" 🙂

 

 

 

Cicar has a good reputation as well.

As I'm sure you know, just because one particular model is shown, that does not necessarily mean that you will get it, just a car of that size category. 

[tring]

7 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Cicar has a good reputation as well.

As I'm sure you know, just because one particular model is shown, that does not necessarily mean that you will get it, just a car of that size category. 

 

Yes, but would be in the same category.  In fact we have often had a bigger car supplied than what was booked, though perhaps not now as companies are reported as not having as many cars as pre COVID because some were disposed of then and fleet not built up again yet.

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by tring

[Mad4WDW]

2 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

I'm sure Which? would love to have the resources to take the opinions of 'an extremely large group', but since it's funded by its 600,000 or so members and doesn't purport to specialise in cruises that was never going to be possible was it?

 

It did what its resources permitted it to do, it chose to allow the general public to view the results, and as always people are perfectly at liberty to make their own decisions and draw their own conclusions.  

 

Frankly, it's better to have the survey as it is than not at all - there's nothing else, is there?

I disagree. A survey that is factually incorrect is worse than no survey because it leads people to an incorrect decision if they take it on face value.

 

I appreciate you mansplaining to me the ins and outs of how Which? works but neither you or the other person who subscribe to Which? has addressed the fact that the costs basis that they used to inform their ratings system (It is Princess that im specifically questioning) is actually wrong. 

[davecttr]

41 minutes ago, Mad4WDW said:

I disagree. A survey that is factually incorrect is worse than no survey because it leads people to an incorrect decision if they take it on face value.

 

I appreciate you mansplaining to me the ins and outs of how Which? works but neither you or the other person who subscribe to Which? has addressed the fact that the costs basis that they used to inform their ratings system (It is Princess that im specifically questioning) is actually wrong. 

I am that other person and so I will explain. I did not subscribe to Which for many years to look at their cruise satisfaction survey. My interest is in consumer items.

 

So I basically don't care about their cruise survey because I have not read it.

 

I cannot see anything positive in ongoing discussions on this topic, goodbye

[Fionboard]

Only way to decide which cruise company suits your needs is to try it.

[Slugsta]

On 3/5/2023 at 9:00 AM, terrierjohn said:

It comes in a  e-mail which is sent the day you disembark, so either you are not signed up for e-mail correspondence, or possibly it ended up in your spam folder.

 

I get my correspondence from P+O via email. I haven't had a post-cruise survey for either of our cruises since the restart (and they didn't go into my spam folder either).

[Ardennais]

I get all the marketing e-mails and the e-mails with the countdown to the cruises, but no survey. Makes me wonder whether they really want any useful feedback! 

[Selbourne]

5 minutes ago, Ardennais said:

I get all the marketing e-mails and the e-mails with the countdown to the cruises, but no survey. Makes me wonder whether they really want any useful feedback! 

They don’t need to ask for feedback any more. It is a known fact that 99.5% of all customers have their best cruise ever - every time. The President of P&O said so, so it must be true 🤔😂

[Slugsta]

I wondered whether the lack of a post-cruise survey was because I hadn't given 10/10 on the 'first impressions' one!