Navigator Incident in Mazatlan

[AllAboardatSea]

I’m not entirely sure what happened today while we were docked in Mazatlan. The crew were doing the mandatory drills for the week, then I heard Oscar Oscar (man overboard). Look down and saw a lifeboat in the water overturned.

 

The cruise director came on and explained the situation briefly and said there would be an update later. Still waiting here in port though. I got a closer look at the boat and it is heavily damaged where it hit the water. So with Navigator being full full this week, It should be interesting what happens next…

[HBCcruiser]

WOW! I hope everyone is ok.

[topnole]

I’d imagine it is pretty hard for those to turn over like that.  Particularly in port.  Hope it didn’t fall and land like that.  

[twangster]

There is a thread over in Royal Caribbean Blog message boards as well.  No injuries reported.

 

[SPacificbound]

I hope everyone is safe and the ship can sail away soon.

[Ourusualbeach]

1 hour ago, AllAboardatSea said:

So with Navigator being full full this week, It should be interesting what happens next

Lots of extra lifeboat/raft capacity.  Having one out of commission won't affect the sailing.

[ONECRUISER]

54 minutes ago, twangster said:

There is a thread over in Royal Caribbean Blog message boards as well.  No injuries reported.

 

That's the important part, the rest is just $.... To other Poster, there always a lot of extra Lifeboat Capacity 

[HicksRA]

When your drill turns into not a drill…

[twangster]

As a follow up the ship left on schedule.  

[Oakman58]

Very interesting.  That's the second lifeboat incident in 6 months.  Back in December Quantum had a lifeboat fall from the ship.

[twangster]

"The sky is falling!  The sky is falling!"

 

Nope, just another Royal lifeboat. 

 

They do warn small craft to stay at least 50m away. 

[smokeybandit]

1/4" hail - pea sized

1" hail - quarter sized

1.75" hail - golf ball sized

25 foot hail - lifeboat sized 

[chengkp75]

On 5/22/2023 at 7:28 PM, topnole said:

I’d imagine it is pretty hard for those to turn over like that.  Particularly in port.  Hope it didn’t fall and land like that.  

It's actually quite easy for a lifeboat to overturn, especially if there are not 150 passengers acting as ballast to weight the bottom.

 

Retrieval of a lifeboat is one of the most inherently dangerous activities that mariners have to deal with.  When reconnecting  the boat to the wire "falls", both heavy pulley/hooks have to be engaged in the release device in the boat and then the securing lever is thrown.  If one or the other hook is not securely fastened to the release mechanism, the boat can be lifted out of the water until that hook slips out of the release gear and one end of the boat falls free, followed soon by the other end as the release device lets go.  This is why even when the boats are lowered for drills with 2-3 crewmen onboard, while hoisting back onboard, they will normally take all the crew out of the boat during lifting.

 

This will likely be found to be a crew training accident, where the crew don't have enough experience with the release gear to recognize whether it is fully engaged or not.

[topnole]

43 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

It's actually quite easy for a lifeboat to overturn, especially if there are not 150 passengers acting as ballast to weight the bottom.

 

Retrieval of a lifeboat is one of the most inherently dangerous activities that mariners have to deal with.  When reconnecting  the boat to the wire "falls", both heavy pulley/hooks have to be engaged in the release device in the boat and then the securing lever is thrown.  If one or the other hook is not securely fastened to the release mechanism, the boat can be lifted out of the water until that hook slips out of the release gear and one end of the boat falls free, followed soon by the other end as the release device lets go.  This is why even when the boats are lowered for drills with 2-3 crewmen onboard, while hoisting back onboard, they will normally take all the crew out of the boat during lifting.

 

This will likely be found to be a crew training accident, where the crew don't have enough experience with the release gear to recognize whether it is fully engaged or not.

How could a life boat turn over like that in the calm water of a port?   Only way would be if it fell and landed upside down (or close enough to not right itself)?   Correct?   That was the point of my prior comment.
 

Regardless of the the above question, isn’t there still significant weight at the bottom (engine, fuel, batteries, all of the food and water rations?   Clearly they don’t design them to easily turn over unless weighted down with a bunch of passenger?   

[chengkp75]

28 minutes ago, topnole said:

How could a life boat turn over like that in the calm water of a port?   Only way would be if it fell and landed upside down (or close enough to not right itself)?   Correct?   That was the point of my prior comment.

Yes, it didn't land upright, it was tilted in one direction or the other.  It didn't really "turn over", it was going over as it fell.

 

28 minutes ago, topnole said:

Regardless of the the above question, isn’t there still significant weight at the bottom (engine, fuel, batteries, all of the food and water rations?   Clearly they don’t design them to easily turn over unless weighted down with a bunch of passenger?

Lifeboats are designed for one thing, to take a quantity of people away from the ship, once.  And, yes, the ballast of the people provides the center of gravity to be low enough that it won't tip over when loaded.  A lifeboat floating with no one onboard is one of the most poorly handling of boats, and not real stable.  As for other supplies, there is about 1 lb of food for each person, and 1.5 liters of water per person (this is designed as 3 days rations).  Many boats do not have batteries, relying on hydraulic starting for the engine.  Fuel is about 30 gallons.  So, all those supplies are around 400-500 lbs, while the full load of passengers (at the design weight of 82.5kg) is around 27,000 lbs.

Edited May 24, 2023 by chengkp75

[topnole]

33 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Yes, it didn't land upright, it was tilted in one direction or the other.  It didn't really "turn over", it was going over as it fell.

 

Lifeboats are designed for one thing, to take a quantity of people away from the ship, once.  And, yes, the ballast of the people provides the center of gravity to be low enough that it won't tip over when loaded.  A lifeboat floating with no one onboard is one of the most poorly handling of boats, and not real stable.  As for other supplies, there is about 1 lb of food for each person, and 1.5 liters of water per person (this is designed as 3 days rations).  Many boats do not have batteries, relying on hydraulic starting for the engine.  Fuel is about 30 gallons.  So, all those supplies are around 400-500 lbs, while the full load of passengers (at the design weight of 82.5kg) is around 27,000 lbs.

I understand.  But my point still remains, in a calm port these boats aren’t going to overturn.  This wasn’t a stability issue in water. 
 

Fyi.  I think your math is off.  Correct me if I’m wrong. 30 gallons of fuel is 250lbs? Based on your 27000 number, I think you assumed about 300 people?   If so, 2.5 letters of water per person, that is over 650lbs.  Add 1lb of food ration per person and that is another 300.  There is also and engine and from what I’ve seen definitely batteries on some of these.  But even ignoring that, it would 1200lbs which is double or even triple your estimate.  Obviously this isn’t much relative to the human weight, but that shouldn’t matter one bit in a calm port.  
 

I also wonder what type of engine they have on these lifeboats. With 30k lbs of weight, you’d have to have something sufficient to propel that though the water. But 30 gallons at that 30k weight would be gone in very short order.  A burn rate of 4-5 gph is quite good for a pleasure boat with a 150hp engine. I wonder what a life boat burn rate would be?  

[chengkp75]

30 gallons of diesel at around 7 lbs/gallon is 210 pounds.  150 people x 82.5 kg/person x 2.2 lbs per kg is 27,000 lbs.  1 lb per person for 150 persons is 150 lbs.  One point five liters of water is 1.5kg x 2.2 lbs per kg x 150 is 500 lbs, so yes, my total for supplies is off a little, but compared to the weight of the passengers, it is minimal.  Batteries would add about another 100-150 lbs.  

 

Lifeboat engines, while in the 40-150 hp range (depending on size of boat), are not designed for speed, and are only required to have enough fuel for 24 hours.  Lifeboats are not designed to undertake Captain Cook's voyage, but to stay in the location of the ship, which is where the search will start.

 

Cruise ship lifeboats are not "self-righting", meaning they will not roll back upright.  They are also "semi-enclosed", meaning that if the boat is landed in an attitude that the gunwale is underwater on one side, it will fill with water, and the boat covering will also act to scoop water into the boat, and continue the roll of the boat to inverted.

[derorim]

7 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

As for other supplies, there is about 1 lb of food for each person, and 1.5 liters of water per person (this is designed as 3 days rations).

I’m just waiting for someone to ask what the menu is for the lifeboats.  🫠

[twangster]

21 minutes ago, derorim said:

I’m just waiting for someone to ask what the menu is for the lifeboats.  🫠

 

Or if the drink package works in them.  

 

There's a bar, right?

 

[cruise1957]

2 hours ago, derorim said:

I’m just waiting for someone to ask what the menu is for the lifeboats.  🫠

Is there one or two seatings for dinner or is it all MTD?

Edited May 25, 2023 by cruise1957

[jwlane]

35 minutes ago, cruise1957 said:

 seatings for dinner 

Can one wear shorts?

[neverbeenhere]

I’ll have my meal Al fresco. 

[twangster]

Free Izumi sushi in the lifeboat! 

 

Oops, I mean raw fish. Close enough.  But you have to catch it yourself.  

[topnole]

5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

30 gallons of diesel at around 7 lbs/gallon is 210 pounds.  150 people x 82.5 kg/person x 2.2 lbs per kg is 27,000 lbs.  1 lb per person for 150 persons is 150 lbs.  One point five liters of water is 1.5kg x 2.2 lbs per kg x 150 is 500 lbs, so yes, my total for supplies is off a little, but compared to the weight of the passengers, it is minimal.  Batteries would add about another 100-150 lbs.  

 

Lifeboat engines, while in the 40-150 hp range (depending on size of boat), are not designed for speed, and are only required to have enough fuel for 24 hours.  Lifeboats are not designed to undertake Captain Cook's voyage, but to stay in the location of the ship, which is where the search will start.

 

Cruise ship lifeboats are not "self-righting", meaning they will not roll back upright.  They are also "semi-enclosed", meaning that if the boat is landed in an attitude that the gunwale is underwater on one side, it will fill with water, and the boat covering will also act to scoop water into the boat, and continue the roll of the boat to inverted.

When I see the boats on oasis class all I can think is how miserable it would be on one of those in even mild/modern seas.  Jam packed with humans and lord knows many would get ill quickly.  

[smokeybandit]

18 minutes ago, topnole said:

When I see the boats on oasis class all I can think is how miserable it would be on one of those in even mild/modern seas.  Jam packed with humans and lord knows many would get ill quickly.  

Better than the alternative I guess.