A Flights by Celebrity error that worked to my favor.

[mahdnc]

2 minutes ago, Stockjock said:

Thx.  Not on the list.

But I think you do understand the situation when one is already frustrated and then others essentially pile on telling you that it's not reasonable to be irritated.

I had this happen over on the MSC boards too, but not as bad.  MSC would pull all sorts of wild nonsense, but somehow, it was my fault, and/or I had no right to be annoyed.  The solution was simple.  Just don't cruise on them if you don't like something that happened.  Easy peasy (for them).

You have every right to manage your block list as you see fit.

[Stockjock]

2 hours ago, mahdnc said:

You have every right to manage your block list as you see fit.

I do use it a lot, and I think it's a great feature.

None of us are perfect, but life is too short to deal with folks who routinely get on our nerves. Some people just have different personalities or life views, and it's not always a simple thing to reconcile.

I've encouraged folks to block/ignore me if I get on their nerves.  It doesn't bother me in the least.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Stockjock

[odysee]

I think Lufthansa had a calender glitch in June.
we had a return flight from Toronto on 11 June, arriving Munich on 12 June as per reservation, confirmation and online manage your booking.

imagine our shock when we get email for checking in 24 hours before with same flight but with departure date of 10 June.as it would have been too late to still catch that days flight.  Also online when starting check in processs still 10 June.  

Only after completing whole check in process and  opening boarding card, it showed the correct flight departing on 11 June.

[Stockjock]

Looks like they're moving us to the original flights offered as a business class upgrade, only not in business class. Unfortunately, the only seats remaining are in or near the back row, next the rear restroom, so we'll either deal w/that or pay to upgrade.

What's odd is that Lufthansa offered to do the move to the 11:45 UAL flight in economy for free, and they also offered a different flight, slightly later, for free (8:30 am rather than 6 am on Aegean Airlines, I believe) with the same MUC to SAN (Lufthansa) connecting flight.  At first, I told them to hold off, as I didn't want to further complicate matters.  Later, I told them to do it, and they tried but said there was a block that prevented them from doing so, since I had a travel agent (Flights by Celebrity).  Lufthansa also said they could provide some "extra services" such as seat assignment, food, etc., but sounds like the travel agent thing prevented that from happening.

The rep from the executive escalation team has been very responsive.  She said that Celebrity spent roughly $900 moving us to the same flight (in economy) that we had received with the original business class upgrade.  While that may be true, it's hard to figure out why Celebrity would be spending $900 on the same flights that Lufthansa told me they could move me to for no cost.

Celebrity continues to insist that the move to business class was not one, but two glitches.  Still not sure I buy that, but at this stage, it doesn't matter what I think.  Here's what I told Celebrity I think happened.

"While I don’t intend on making a (further) federal case out of it, here’s what I think happened.  I touched upon some of this previously, but this lays things out more succinctly...

 

1. Flight improperly booked on 9-11 rather than 9-12, by whoever (see prior screenshot showing 9-11 booking).

 

2. Error caught and flight moved to 9-12, perhaps after I called Flights by Celebrity to ask why my flight was showing as 9-11.  Again, I was told not to worry about it and that this would be corrected by the final payment date, which did occur.

 

3. This move triggered a 24 hour schedule change (exactly) and properly opened up an option for new flights (i.e. not a glitch).

 

4. Of the 6-7 flights offered, several were offered in business class on one leg and economy on the 2nd leg.  While this was presumed to also be a glitch, I suspect it wasn’t.  Economy was essentially sold out, so I believe their system properly offered business class on the first leg due to better seat availability only.  But of course, that worked to our benefit, as while not designed as an upgrade (availability issue only), obviously a business class upgrade is quite desirable.

 

5. Later, a further 5-minute schedule change occurred.  Lufthansa presumed that it was only a 5 minute schedule change, and thus a minor schedule change or another “glitch”.  But I believe that it was a 24 hour, 5 minute schedule change, and not a glitch, which is why their system reacted as it did (i.e. correctly).

 

6. Once Flights by Celebrity added back in the original 6 am flight, it created a conflict, as there were 2 flights on 2 airlines at different times but on the same flight locator number and same ticket number.  Only one could be permitted, which caused a cancellation of the superior flights with a business class leg.

 

At least, that’s what I think happened.  I appreciate their explanations, but I don’t suspect the “Glitch Theory” occurring twice (one glitch for a 5 minute change and a second glitch offering business class) is accurate.  Rather, I suspect their system is better and more sophisticated than that, and thus, it operated as it was designed to.

 

Thank you for the follow-up once again, and enjoy the 4th!

 

Regards,

 

Stockjock"
 

Seems like the changes have not yet been implemented.  Looks like Celebrity has to reissue the ticket and I told them this.  As much as I appreciate the prompt and professional response by Celebrity, I'll likely just book my own flights in the future, although I won't fully rule it out, since there are some advantages.  I especially liked the fact that there was no payment due for the flights nor any penalty to cancel prior to final payment.  So one must weigh the pros vs. the cons, and certainly there are some major cons.  Issues arose that wouldn't have happened, and/or could have been quickly rectified, had I been able to work w/the airline directly.
 

A modification has been made to your itinerary.

heading level 2

Please reach out to United Reservations, link opens in a new tab, or contact your travel agency to have your ticket reissued.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Stockjock

[Stockjock]

As a follow-up, we fly to Europe in a week or so, and the return flights are still not in good order.  So you don't have to read the entire thread, let me recap:

1. Booked flights on Lufthansa via FBC.  A number of schedule changes occurred.

2. Due to one or more schedule changes, Lufthansa offered me a number of replacement flights I could move to for no cost.  The LH agent told me about these options verbally, and they were also selectable on Lufthansa's website.

3. I called FBC to make sure it was okay to do this.  They said that if it was being offered by LH, it was fine to accept the change.

4. Reviewed the alternative flights.  About half of those flights had the longest leg in business class, so of course I chose one of those, which was a UAL flight at a more convenient time too.  Went to United, did business class seat assignment, everything looked great.

5. FBC went into the booking, which conflicted with what they had on file, they cancelled my new flights w/business class legs and returned me to the 6 am flights on LH.  They also re-ticketed the flight, so the option to select a new flight w/a business class leg was no longer an option on this new ticket.

6. I contacted FBC and Celebrity to gripe, as we had been excited about LH's offer to give us a business class leg (no, we didn't pay for it, but who cares, they offered it) and were disappointed that FBC had cancelled it.

7. FBC agreed to put us on that UAL flight but not in business class.  We were still disappointed, but accepted that offer.

8. United showed 2 conflicting booking numbers.  One was ticketed but showed the old (wrong) flights.  The other was not ticketed, but showed the right flights.

9. FBC said everything is fine, don't worry about it.

10. UAL said it's not fine, and they will cancel both flights if not resolved.  

Fast forward to today.  Flights still not in good order.  FBC telling me everything is fine.  Since my outbound flights are coming up in about a week, I decided to get on the phone (after many e-mails) to see if I could get this resolved.

If you've made it this far, here is a copy of a message I sent to a FBC resolutions agent this afternoon...

 

After another 5.5 hours on the phone today.  Here’s what happened.

 

Just to refresh your memory, the following are locator codes:

 

Lufthansa: ***ED9

 

UAL correct flights (11:45 am on UA via IAD) but not ticketed: ***8GF

 

UAL wrong flights (6:15 am on LH via MUC) properly ticketed: ***GTF

 

Called United Sat morning.  Once again, they said flights not in good order.  They said both flights showed as duplicates in their system and that ***8GF was not ticketed.  They also said that when I didn’t show up for the ***GTF at 6:15 am, it would be recorded as a no show and ***8GF, again not in good order anyway, would be cancelled.  They said FBC needed to resolve this.

 

Called FBC.  They said everything was fine on their end.

 

Called UAL back.  They said everything was definitely not fine and flights would be cancelled if left as they were.  Suggested I call FBC.

 

Called FBC.  She said everything was fine on their end and suggested I call UAL back and see if I could get them to resolve.

 

Called UAL again.  They said that the flights were in conflict and they could not resolve it.  Told me to call FBC again.

 

Called FBC again and spoke w/a supervisor again.  First agent before supervisor said they had a note that I called earlier and requested a refund, which is not correct.  Supervisor said I needed to call UAL again and get the duplicate bookings squared away on their end, as there was noting FBC could do.  Told me this was an internal UAL issue and UAL would have to resolve.

 

Called UAL and spoke w/a supervisor.  He said that ***GTF was ticketed but had the wrong flights and ***8GF was not ticketed and had the right flights.  So his solution was to cancel ***8GF, since it was not ticketed, and move the correct flights to ***GTF, so that I would have one UAL booking number (***GTF), fully ticketed, showing the correct flights and no conflict.  He did that and everything then looked good on UAL’s website w/no conflict or duplicate.

 

I checked Lufthansa’s website, and under ***ED9, I received the message: “Important information: There is no flight in your booking”.

 

I called Lufthansa to ask them about this.  They said they could not see this booking number, but everything “should be fine”.

 

I frankly did not believe that agent, so I called Lufthansa again.  They said everything is not fine.  There are no flights associated with your Lufthansa reservation ***ED9.

 

Called FBC back and spoke w/supervisor *****, and she said she will investigate and get back to me.

 

That’s where we are at the moment.  It should not be this complicated.

 

Regards,

Stockjock

Edited August 19, 2023 by Stockjock
Spelling

[pmarrsouth]

You didn’t bother to read/listen previously so not sure why I am posting another response, but on the United app with the NEW PNR there will be a new LH PNR listed too (also shows this on the United website). Use that as your LH PNR going forward 

[Stockjock]

Wha

33 minutes ago, pmarrsouth said:

You didn’t bother to read/listen previously so not sure why I am posting another response, but on the United app with the NEW PNR there will be a new LH PNR listed too (also shows this on the United website). Use that as your LH PNR going forward 

I did see your prior remark, but it didn't seem like a comment that required a response.

That said, is a PNR the same as a booking reference or passenger locator number?  If so, the LH booking reference number has remained the same throughout all of this, until the flight info vanished from it after UAL combined their 2 booking numbers, as mentioned.  I did visit United's website and I do not see any LH booking reference code, so let me know if I'm missing something, or looking in the wrong place.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Stockjock

[Stockjock]

6 hours ago, Stockjock said:

As a follow-up, we fly to Europe in a week or so, and the return flights are still not in good order.  So you don't have to read the entire thread, let me recap:

1. Booked flights on Lufthansa via FBC.  A number of schedule changes occurred.

2. Due to one or more schedule changes, Lufthansa offered me a number of replacement flights I could move to for no cost.  The LH agent told me about these options verbally, and they were also selectable on Lufthansa's website.

3. I called FBC to make sure it was okay to do this.  They said that if it was being offered by LH, it was fine to accept the change.

4. Reviewed the alternative flights.  About half of those flights had the longest leg in business class, so of course I chose one of those, which was a UAL flight at a more convenient time too.  Went to United, did business class seat assignment, everything looked great.

5. FBC went into the booking, which conflicted with what they had on file, they cancelled my new flights w/business class legs and returned me to the 6 am flights on LH.  They also re-ticketed the flight, so the option to select a new flight w/a business class leg was no longer an option on this new ticket.

6. I contacted FBC and Celebrity to gripe, as we had been excited about LH's offer to give us a business class leg (no, we didn't pay for it, but who cares, they offered it) and were disappointed that FBC had cancelled it.

7. FBC agreed to put us on that UAL flight but not in business class.  We were still disappointed, but accepted that offer.

8. United showed 2 conflicting booking numbers.  One was ticketed but showed the old (wrong) flights.  The other was not ticketed, but showed the right flights.

9. FBC said everything is fine, don't worry about it.

10. UAL said it's not fine, and they will cancel both flights if not resolved.  

Fast forward to today.  Flights still not in good order.  FBC telling me everything is fine.  Since my outbound flights are coming up in about a week, I decided to get on the phone (after many e-mails) to see if I could get this resolved.

Just to further update...

11. FBC has created yet another duplicate booking.  So I have a booking that should have been in good order, with seat assignments and such, and a brand new booking on the same United flight which will create a conflict that will result in the cancellation of my booking if not resolved.

To say that this has been a very frustrating experience would be a massive understatement.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Stockjock

[Stockjock]

A note I sent this evening to FBC and my advocate from Executive Escalations...
 

I think Rebecca can vouch for the fact that I have been very polite and very patient.  But I have to tell you, I am very upset about this comedy of errors with respect to my Flights by Celebrity booking.  

 

I’ve been working with FBC for many months now, and the flights are still not in good order only 1 week before the start of my vacation.  My girlfriend is also very upset and disappointed and she cannot understand why it seems impossible for Flights by Celebrity to fix a simple return flight and put it in good order.

 

These duplicate bookings have already cost me seats in business class.  And now it seems that we endlessly go back-and-forth, with everyone pointing fingers at the other, no one seemingly taking ownership or actually solving the issue.  It’s totally unacceptable.

 

Travel agents are supposed to simplify my life.  Instead, this has taken years off my life.  I’ve probably spent over a full 24-hour period trying to straighten this away.  I just don’t get it.

 

And it’s not acceptable to state that everything is “fine” when United Airlines tells me very clearly that these duplicates bookings are not fine, are mostly un-ticketed, and will result in the cancellation of my flights.  If it’s not fine with them, it’s not fine with me, as it will be up to them to decide whether my tickets are valid.  If they tell me they are not in good order, I believe them.

 

 

[chemmo]

4 hours ago, Stockjock said:

A note I sent this evening to FBC and my advocate from Executive Escalations...
 

I think Rebecca can vouch for the fact that I have been very polite and very patient.  But I have to tell you, I am very upset about this comedy of errors with respect to my Flights by Celebrity booking.  

 

I’ve been working with FBC for many months now, and the flights are still not in good order only 1 week before the start of my vacation.  My girlfriend is also very upset and disappointed and she cannot understand why it seems impossible for Flights by Celebrity to fix a simple return flight and put it in good order.

 

These duplicate bookings have already cost me seats in business class.  And now it seems that we endlessly go back-and-forth, with everyone pointing fingers at the other, no one seemingly taking ownership or actually solving the issue.  It’s totally unacceptable.

 

Travel agents are supposed to simplify my life.  Instead, this has taken years off my life.  I’ve probably spent over a full 24-hour period trying to straighten this away.  I just don’t get it.

 

And it’s not acceptable to state that everything is “fine” when United Airlines tells me very clearly that these duplicates bookings are not fine, are mostly un-ticketed, and will result in the cancellation of my flights.  If it’s not fine with them, it’s not fine with me, as it will be up to them to decide whether my tickets are valid.  If they tell me they are not in good order, I believe them.

 

 

If I was you right now I would be in a total panic…I honestly would anticipate getting to the airport and not having a seat on any plane!

 

I am afraid my politeness and patience would have changed to a cold steel manner…Not easy when you are gentle by nature but I would be livid by now…

 

Quite simply you should be out of the loop not being the intermediary…

[Nachosdelux]

this story is a cautionary tale why I always buy airline tickets DIRECTLY from the airline.  

[mahdnc]

I thought (or presumed) that you took FBC's written offer to give control of the return flight tickets back to the airline??

 

Also I would strongly suggest that you copy and post your problem over at the Cruise Air forum on Cruise Critic. That forum is actively patrolled by @FlyerTalker @Globaliser and others who are very air knowledgeable and may offer some useful advice. It certainly can't hurt. 

 

Sorry to hear about your continuing predicament and good luck with getting it resolved soon. 

Edited August 20, 2023 by mahdnc

[Stockjock]

6 hours ago, chemmo said:

If I was you right now I would be in a total panic…I honestly would anticipate getting to the airport and not having a seat on any plane!

 

I am afraid my politeness and patience would have changed to a cold steel manner…Not easy when you are gentle by nature but I would be livid by now…

 

Quite simply you should be out of the loop not being the intermediary…

The experience has been beyond horrendous.  The only saving grace is that the outbound flight appears to be in good order.  These issues pertain to the return flights.

If I worked for Celebrity, I would have taken the bull by the horns and resolved this months ago.

As I mentioned earlier, due to flight schedule changes, Lufthansa had previously offered me a number of alternative flights, about half or so that had a single leg in business class.  I suspect the reason was because economy class was full, or nearly so.  But it wasn't my role to question why.  This was offered verbally by the Lufthansa agent as well as online.  

But before accepting a thing, I cleared it w/FBC and was told I could accept it.  Later, FBC fouled things with more duplicate bookings to the point where that got cancelled.  Some here focused on the fact that I didn't pay for business class, and presumably didn't "deserve it", but of course that isn't the point.  Yesterday, a United agent asked why I cancelled my business class seats, which just rubbed salt in the wound.

So now that we're trying to confirm a straight economy class return flight, you wouldn't think that it would take an Act of God to get the ticket in good order, would you?

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Stockjock

[Stockjock]

4 hours ago, Nachosdelux said:

this story is a cautionary tale why I always buy airline tickets DIRECTLY from the airline.  

This is the first time that I have allowed any cruise line to make my air arrangements.  I thought it would save me time, lock in a reasonable price, and simplify my life if there was a problem.  None of this has happened.  In fact, much the opposite.

And if they can't fix problems with months to do so and very clear articulation from me as to what the problems are, what confidence do I have that they would be able to fix unanticipated problems that occur at the last minute?  Answer = zero confidence.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Stockjock

[mahdnc]

On 6/26/2023 at 10:33 AM, Stockjock said:

It looks like they will release the ticket from their control, as they asked me today if I want them to do this, and I said that I'd like that.

 

Did this happen?

[Jeremiah1212]

If this was me I would be trying to cancel everything and rebook something on my own. I haven't kept up with the story this seems to have become so convoluted between FBC, United and Lufthansa at this point there will never be a clean resolution. 

[Stockjock]

11 minutes ago, mahdnc said:

 

Did this happen?

No.

[Stockjock]

4 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

If this was me I would be trying to cancel everything and rebook something on my own. I haven't kept up with the story this seems to have become so convoluted between FBC, United and Lufthansa at this point there will never be a clean resolution. 

Prices have increased by thousands.  They need to fix this, imo.  I even asked the travel insurance folks if I could buy insurance to cover me if my return flights are not in good order, but they said it would only cover me if the flights were cancelled or delayed due to weather or mechanical issues.  Incompetence is not a covered event.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Stockjock

[Georgia_Peaches]

Stockjock is it not possible to get all parties...FBC and the airline on the line for a three way call?  All the them-not us-them-not us back and forth is ridiculous!  I have no idea how you have maintained your sanity much less your patience.

[mahdnc]

23 minutes ago, mahdnc said:

 

Did this happen?

 

Did you ask about it? It would come in handy right now. 

[Stockjock]

17 minutes ago, mahdnc said:

 

Did you ask about it? It would come in handy right now. 

Yes, they discussed it, but apparently decided against it.  I just called Lufthansa.  They said there is nothing they can do other than to add a note not to create any further duplicate bookings without my approval.

At this stage, I want to hold FBC fully accountable, and they're going to receive a number of phone calls until this situation is straightened away.  I feel that if they release the tickets, then I'm letting them off the hook, and I don't want to do this, at this late point in time.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Stockjock

[Globaliser]

On 6/24/2023 at 5:50 PM, Stockjock said:

All that I can tell you is that I was offered I think 7 replacement flight options, and I'd estimate that 3 of them had 1 leg in business class.  This particular flight was had only 1 set of side-by-side economy seats left in the back of the plane, near the restrooms, so perhaps that was why business class was offered.

 

23 hours ago, Stockjock said:

That said, is a PNR the same as a booking reference or passenger locator number?  If so, the LH booking reference number has remained the same throughout all of this, until the flight info vanished from it after UAL combined their 2 booking numbers, as mentioned.  I did visit United's website and I do not see any LH booking reference code, so let me know if I'm missing something, or looking in the wrong place.

 

Assuming that by now, you just need practical suggestions, here are a few thoughts.

 

First, whatever it was that triggered Lufthansa's reaccommodation module to offer you any replacement flights at all, the offer of business class seats would have had nothing to do with how full the flights were in economy, let alone where the unallocated seats were physically located. It just doesn't work like that. Whether or not there are unallocated seats in economy tells you very little about whether the reservations system will take more reservations in economy. And if the reservations system has no more space for taking reservations in economy, the flight simply won't be offered to you at all. You wouldn't be offered vastly more valuable business class seats just because the only unallocated physical seats are in a particularly undesirable location.

 

So despite your frustration at apparently being offered a great option and then having that taken away from you, any practical approach to the current problem has to be on the basis that the business class seats were only ever a glitch, and you may never have been allowed to fly in business class even if nothing else had gone wrong. Don't get hung up about this. You need to solve your practical problems, not try to restore something that you were probably only ever offered because of a glitch. You haven't really "lost" business class seats.

 

Second, it's worth remembering the difference between:

1. A reservation.
2. A ticket.
3. A seat allocation.

These are all different things, and although you need all three of them to actually fly, none of them is a necessary consequence of having either of the others.

 

A PNR is a reservation record, and is identified by a reference or "locator" - for major airlines, usually six alphanumeric characters. But if you have a complex booking, there will a number of PNRs because each travel agent and airline involved will have its own record, and each record will have a unique locator. If a travel agent makes a booking, it will have its own record, and each airline with which the booking is made will have its own record. If the airline with which the booking is made is different from the operating airline, the booking airline will have a record and the operating airline will have at least one separate record and sometimes more than one.

 

From what you describe, it looks like the original airline with which the booking was made was Lufthansa, but it then booked you on flights operated by United. You know that United now has at least two records, but it's not clear whether Lufthansa now has a second record linked to United's second record. It's certainly not clear whether the flights that United has just moved from one record to the other have ever been known to Lufthansa (and therefore whether Lufthansa has any record of them), let alone which Lufthansa record they're in and whether they have moved between records to match the move that United has made. However, if United has basically cancelled all the Lufthansa flights, so that the only active record contains only United flights, then Lufthansa may have no need to know any of this and no need to have any active record - but that's not clear.

 

You can probably see why some airlines will not touch a booking that's been made by a travel agent, and will refer all changes and queries back to the travel agent, until a very late stage before the flight. With the situation you describe with your booking, a cynic might say that it's almost guaranteed that something is going to go very wrong.

 

Third, you say you have a ticket number. These are 16 digits long (digits only). My guess is that your ticket number will either start 016- (for a United-issued ticket) or 220- (for a Lufthansa-issued ticket). More important is the question of what flights were written on the ticket. That's not clear, although my guess is that it's more likely to be for the itinerary departing at 6.15 am via Munich, in which case it's may also be more likely that it's a 220- ticket.

 

Now that United has moved the flights for the itinerary departing at 11.45 am via Washington into (what may be) the only active United record, an open question is whether anyone's going to reissue the ticket to reflect the new flights, and if so, who is going to do that. The answer to that may be that only FBC can reissue the ticket, because it's an FBC booking, you've paid FBC, and it's FBC that owes the relevant airline the fare represented by the ticket. The issue of the ticket is the point at which the travel agent accounts to the airline for the fare, and the ticket is the valuable document that proves to the airline that the fare has been paid, without which the airline usually won't carry you.

 

But if the ticket isn't reissued, there's a question about whether United would accept the original 6.15 am ticket as payment for the 11.45 am flights without the ticket having to be reissued - in which case, there may be no need to reissue the ticket.

 

Fourth, FBC's willingness to reissue the ticket (if that's needed and that's all that's needed to straighten things out) may depend on what FBC can see in its record, and what ticket FBC currently thinks has been issued. But none of that's clear, other than that at one recent point in time FBC thought that things were fine.

 

So you may now have a better idea about the types of information you need to get a picture of where you are. The bottom line is that you need to know what flights you have reservations for, what kind of ticket you have, and whether the operating airline will accept the ticket for your reserved flights or whether the ticket needs to be reissued, and if so, by whom.

 

Fifth and finally, seat allocations are frankly irrelevant to these issues - don't confuse them. If you get access to the operating airline's system and you can get seats pre-allocated, so much the better. But don't muddy the waters with them when you're dealing with reservations and tickets. Seat allocations are something different and much less important.

[Stockjock]

42 minutes ago, Globaliser said:

 

 

Assuming that by now, you just need practical suggestions, here are a few thoughts.

 

First, whatever it was that triggered Lufthansa's reaccommodation module to offer you any replacement flights at all, the offer of business class seats would have had nothing to do with how full the flights were in economy, let alone where the unallocated seats were physically located. It just doesn't work like that. Whether or not there are unallocated seats in economy tells you very little about whether the reservations system will take more reservations in economy. And if the reservations system has no more space for taking reservations in economy, the flight simply won't be offered to you at all. You wouldn't be offered vastly more valuable business class seats just because the only unallocated physical seats are in a particularly undesirable location.

 

So despite your frustration at apparently being offered a great option and then having that taken away from you, any practical approach to the current problem has to be on the basis that the business class seats were only ever a glitch, and you may never have been allowed to fly in business class even if nothing else had gone wrong. Don't get hung up about this. You need to solve your practical problems, not try to restore something that you were probably only ever offered because of a glitch. You haven't really "lost" business class seats.

 

Second, it's worth remembering the difference between:

1. A reservation.
2. A ticket.
3. A seat allocation.

These are all different things, and although you need all three of them to actually fly, none of them is a necessary consequence of having either of the others.

 

A PNR is a reservation record, and is identified by a reference or "locator" - for major airlines, usually six alphanumeric characters. But if you have a complex booking, there will a number of PNRs because each travel agent and airline involved will have its own record, and each record will have a unique locator. If a travel agent makes a booking, it will have its own record, and each airline with which the booking is made will have its own record. If the airline with which the booking is made is different from the operating airline, the booking airline will have a record and the operating airline will have at least one separate record and sometimes more than one.

 

From what you describe, it looks like the original airline with which the booking was made was Lufthansa, but it then booked you on flights operated by United. You know that United now has at least two records, but it's not clear whether Lufthansa now has a second record linked to United's second record. It's certainly not clear whether the flights that United has just moved from one record to the other have ever been known to Lufthansa (and therefore whether Lufthansa has any record of them), let alone which Lufthansa record they're in and whether they have moved between records to match the move that United has made. However, if United has basically cancelled all the Lufthansa flights, so that the only active record contains only United flights, then Lufthansa may have no need to know any of this and no need to have any active record - but that's not clear.

 

You can probably see why some airlines will not touch a booking that's been made by a travel agent, and will refer all changes and queries back to the travel agent, until a very late stage before the flight. With the situation you describe with your booking, a cynic might say that it's almost guaranteed that something is going to go very wrong.

 

Third, you say you have a ticket number. These are 16 digits long (digits only). My guess is that your ticket number will either start 016- (for a United-issued ticket) or 220- (for a Lufthansa-issued ticket). More important is the question of what flights were written on the ticket. That's not clear, although my guess is that it's more likely to be for the itinerary departing at 6.15 am via Munich, in which case it's may also be more likely that it's a 220- ticket.

 

Now that United has moved the flights for the itinerary departing at 11.45 am via Washington into (what may be) the only active United record, an open question is whether anyone's going to reissue the ticket to reflect the new flights, and if so, who is going to do that. The answer to that may be that only FBC can reissue the ticket, because it's an FBC booking, you've paid FBC, and it's FBC that owes the relevant airline the fare represented by the ticket. The issue of the ticket is the point at which the travel agent accounts to the airline for the fare, and the ticket is the valuable document that proves to the airline that the fare has been paid, without which the airline usually won't carry you.

 

But if the ticket isn't reissued, there's a question about whether United would accept the original 6.15 am ticket as payment for the 11.45 am flights without the ticket having to be reissued - in which case, there may be no need to reissue the ticket.

 

Fourth, FBC's willingness to reissue the ticket (if that's needed and that's all that's needed to straighten things out) may depend on what FBC can see in its record, and what ticket FBC currently thinks has been issued. But none of that's clear, other than that at one recent point in time FBC thought that things were fine.

 

So you may now have a better idea about the types of information you need to get a picture of where you are. The bottom line is that you need to know what flights you have reservations for, what kind of ticket you have, and whether the operating airline will accept the ticket for your reserved flights or whether the ticket needs to be reissued, and if so, by whom.

 

Fifth and finally, seat allocations are frankly irrelevant to these issues - don't confuse them. If you get access to the operating airline's system and you can get seats pre-allocated, so much the better. But don't muddy the waters with them when you're dealing with reservations and tickets. Seat allocations are something different and much less important.

Obviously, it's all pretty complicated.  They sent me a copy of the ticket numbers that do start w/220, which seems to be Lufthansa.

Lufthansa's record locator seems to be linked to today's new duplicate booking, which is not ticketed or confirmed, according to United.  I'm trying to get them to link Lufthansa's record locator with the other UAL booking reference number, which I understand to be in good order (booked/ticketed/etc), and then get them to cancel the new duplicate booking, which again, isn't in good order.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Stockjock

[Globaliser]

My impression is that there are too many people working on this problem in different places, with no coordination between them and no hand knowing what any other hand is doing, so that everything that anyone does is causing more confusion and sowing more potential disruption.

 

I would have lots of questions, including:

1. Who is "they" who have sent you a copy of the 220- ticket number? When was this sent to you?
2. Is this ticket still valid, or has it now been cancelled?
3. Which flights were written on this ticket? (For the reasons above, this is a different question from which flights are in any of the reservation records.)
4. Is the Lufthansa record that "seems to be linked to today's new duplicate booking" the same record as you have already mentioned (***ED9), or a different record?
5. Which flights are reserved in each Lufthansa record?
6. Which flights are reserved in "the other UAL [record], which I understand to be in good order (booked/ticketed/etc)"?
7. How do you know that that record has been ticketed? Do you have a ticket number? Does that ticket number begin 016- or 220-? Which flights are written on that ticket? (For the reasons above, it seems unlikely that you simultaneously have two valid tickets, because tickets are valuable documents and nobody will be keen for you to be holding two tickets having only paid for one. FBC certainly won't be keen to have issued a second ticket without the first being cancelled, as it would mean that it has to pay the airlines twice - possibly once to each of two different airlines.)

 

I'm using "ticket" in the singular for clarity, although obviously each of the two of you needs to have your own ticket (with a unique number) in order to fly.

[Stockjock]

6 hours ago, Globaliser said:

My impression is that there are too many people working on this problem in different places, with no coordination between them and no hand knowing what any other hand is doing, so that everything that anyone does is causing more confusion and sowing more potential disruption.

 

I would have lots of questions, including:

1. Who is "they" who have sent you a copy of the 220- ticket number? When was this sent to you?
2. Is this ticket still valid, or has it now been cancelled?
3. Which flights were written on this ticket? (For the reasons above, this is a different question from which flights are in any of the reservation records.)
4. Is the Lufthansa record that "seems to be linked to today's new duplicate booking" the same record as you have already mentioned (***ED9), or a different record?
5. Which flights are reserved in each Lufthansa record?
6. Which flights are reserved in "the other UAL [record], which I understand to be in good order (booked/ticketed/etc)"?
7. How do you know that that record has been ticketed? Do you have a ticket number? Does that ticket number begin 016- or 220-? Which flights are written on that ticket? (For the reasons above, it seems unlikely that you simultaneously have two valid tickets, because tickets are valuable documents and nobody will be keen for you to be holding two tickets having only paid for one. FBC certainly won't be keen to have issued a second ticket without the first being cancelled, as it would mean that it has to pay the airlines twice - possibly once to each of two different airlines.)

 

I'm using "ticket" in the singular for clarity, although obviously each of the two of you needs to have your own ticket (with a unique number) in order to fly.

They is an individual from executive escalations, who seems to be trying to work on the problem, mostly unsuccessfully, unfortunately.

 

I believe that the ticket is still valid. Last night they took away the duplicate United booking that is not in good order, but linked with the Lufthansa booking number. This morning, they reinstated the same number, and I once again have a duplicate.

 

I don’t know which flights are written on the ticket. What I can tell you is that Lufthansa had moved me over to United, and their website was showing the United flights. As I mentioned, united, currently shows two reservations, the one I would prefer to use this been ticketed, confirm, and in good order, and the new one that is not in good order fr

 

United tells me that the one I want to use is ticketed, confirmed, and in good order, and the duplicate is not.

 

that’s all I can tell you. United tells me that duplicate reservations are not going to work for them, and I tend to believe that.