Big news tomorrow (apparently!)

[Charles4515]

1 hour ago, zitsky said:

Maybe so but it seems a lot of this is just speculation.  I’d like to see solid data for why Celebrity would focus on short Caribbean cruises.  
 

it also fits with the idea that Royal is trying to turn Celebrity into, well, Royal Caribbean.  Short cruises, more children on board etc.

 

I don’t have a problem with kids but I don’t want a party atmosphere whether from children or adults.

I don't see Celebrity providing us with any data. Those are busness secrets. There may be information though available in investor  reports you could read those.

 

I don't think they are trying to turn Celebrity into Royal Caribbean. It always has been with a different theme. 

 

Short cruises on any cruise line have always drawn a different demographic than longer cruises. A more party atmosphere. I won't do them. The shortest I dis was five days. Five days not enough unless it is back to back with a longer cruise. I could see a 3 or 4 day if it were back to back. But I would expect a more  party type  atmosphere and more children on any cruise line. 

 

So why would they do short cruise? Many new cruisers are not sure if they will like a cruise or if they will get seasick. They could be a good introduction to Celebrity. 

[cw2go]

3 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

I don't see Celebrity providing us with any data. Those are busness secrets. There may be information though available in investor  reports you could read those.

 

I don't think they are trying to turn Celebrity into Royal Caribbean. It always has been with a different theme. 

 

Short cruises on any cruise line have always drawn a different demographic than longer cruises. A more party atmosphere. I won't do them. The shortest I dis was five days. Five days not enough unless it is back to back with a longer cruise. I could see a 3 or 4 day if it were back to back. But I would expect a more  party type  atmosphere and more children on any cruise line. 

 

So why would they do short cruise? Many new cruisers are not sure if they will like a cruise or if they will get seasick. They could be a good introduction to Celebrity. 

 

Also adding.... if true, as many suspect that ~X~ is looking to gain younger cruisers, they lack the vacation days from work compared to retirees or those with long employment status. With a 4 day cruise plus travel on the front and back end and a pre cruise hotel stay for assurance of flight issues, they're at a full week off from work. 

 

Patty 

[soniam]

9 hours ago, C4HCG said:

All about personal preference. To us, European itineraries are boring.

I sort of agree, but the Caribbean has gotten kind of boring due to doing it often. We prefer to visit Europe as a land vacation but will be doing an 11 night Italy/Turkey/Greece next month for our anniversary. We wanted a longer relaxing cruise. The more unique and many sea day itineraries are appealing to me in the future.

[CruisinBanka]

29 minutes ago, Jim_Iain said:

I must be the exception here but when I read the announcement -  I yawned and thought Ho-Hum. 

 

We would just not do a 3-4 day cruise.   One reason is too short and the other is that when you live on the West Coast and it takes about a full day of travel in each direction just not worth it.

 

Other reason is we are not big fans of Private Island Beach  'adventures' and laying out in the sun.  If we were to take the longer cruises we would probably just stay on board and enjoy the peace and tranquility.

I agree with you Jim…… hi hum. Personally we would avoid any Celebrity ship that were short cruises and/or went to a private island, as that just fills the ship with kids (and all that comes with it) and we take longer cruises on dates that avoid children. We moved from Royal to Celebrity years ago for this reason. When we do cruise with our grown children and grandchildren we still cruise Royal. Much more for younger people to do on Royal. 

[mahdnc]

1 hour ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

They aren't going to release profitability by sailing. But you can see revenue by geographic region. For RCG as a whole Europe and Asia combined aren't even close to Caribbean revenue. 

 

 

 

 

There are still two E class ships in Europe next summer and two S class ships. 

 

Just to be clear the above financial data is RCG, but the other post with multiple graphs/data--that is Celebrity?

[mahdnc]

1 hour ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

They aren't going to release profitability by sailing. But you can see revenue by geographic region. For RCG as a whole Europe and Asia combined aren't even close to Caribbean revenue. 

 

 

 

 

There are still two E class ships in Europe next summer and two S class ships. 

 

Just to be clear the above financial data is RCG (I know Celebrity financials are never broken out for public consumption), but the other post with multiple graphs/data--that is Celebrity?

Edited June 28, 2023 by mahdnc

[mfs2k]

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

So why would they do short cruise

 

I've cruised about 15 times - Usually 7-10 days each, but two of them were 2 night "Cruises to Nowhere" from Manhattan and they were FUN.  (not Celebrity)  They were party cruises and that's what we wanted for those weekends.  We boarded at noon on Saturday and disembarked in Manhattan on Monday morning at 8am.  I took a cab to work.  

 

The point of this post is I believe there is so much variety in cruise experiences one can book, whether it's a 2 night party trip to nowhere, or a 75 night cruise around the world on a luxurious ship. 

 

There's something for everyone who likes to be on a ship. 

That doesn't mean everything is for someone. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by mfs2k

[D. B.]

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

I don't see Celebrity providing us with any data. Those are busness secrets. There may be information though available in investor  reports you could read those.

 

I don't think they are trying to turn Celebrity into Royal Caribbean. It always has been with a different theme. 

 

Short cruises on any cruise line have always drawn a different demographic than longer cruises. A more party atmosphere. I won't do them. The shortest I dis was five days. Five days not enough unless it is back to back with a longer cruise. I could see a 3 or 4 day if it were back to back. But I would expect a more  party type  atmosphere and more children on any cruise line. 

 

So why would they do short cruise? Many new cruisers are not sure if they will like a cruise or if they will get seasick. They could be a good introduction to Celebrity. 

I think the reasoning for short cruises is to appeal to a younger demographic of guests who are Working and have less vacation time than those of us who are retired?

 I'm disappointed as I like Long cruises and now look for ways to do 2 cruises B2B or on 2 ships sailing on connecting dates.

 We will do Beyond 6 nights sailing Jan. 2,2024 then Equinox Jan. 8-18,2024.  both from Ft. Lauderdale.

[peterde]

11 hours ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

In addition to the passenger tax, The Bahamas will implement a $5 tourism environmental tax and a $2 tourism enhancement tax for each cruise passenger. 

 

This isn’t paid by Celebrity, this is your port chargers that every passenger pays themselves. Where Celebrity saves money is in their dockage fees. It costs each ship many thousands of dollars in pier rental, stevedore services and piloting to dock at a regular port of call. Since RCG owns the pier at PDCC, use their own employees to tie up the ship and have their own captains docking the ship they stand to save millions of dollars a year. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by peterde

[zitsky]

I do see a positive if they attract younger pax.  And I have no problem with kids.  As long as they’re not screaming in the restaurants and splashing me in the hot tub.  And not ahead of me in the gelato line.

 

As has been said, a few Edge class ships are staying in Europe.  Hey Celebrity if you’re listening I would love an Edge class ship on my Bali cruise.

[Jeremiah1212]

35 minutes ago, mahdnc said:

 

Just to be clear the above financial data is RCG (I know Celebrity financials are never broken out for public consumption), but the other post with multiple graphs/data--that is Celebrity?

 

The financials are all RCG brands. They do not report brand by brand. The other graphs are CLIA member cruise lines. Point being, the passengers and the cruise days are largely spent in the Caribbean on seven night cruises by mostly North Americans. 

 

For Celebrity I only have insight to Caribbean info: 

 

New to cruise/new to brand is 50% on 7 nights, 35% on long and 66% on short. 

 

Loyalty is 49% on 7 nights, 67% on long, 34% on short. 

 

Average age 60+ is 51% on 7 night, 75% on long, 37% on short. 

 

Traveling w/ family is 10% on 7 night, 3% on long, 14% on short. 

 

Roughly even split on boomer/silent gen and everyone younger on 7 night cruises, almost 80% boomer/silent gen on long Caribbean. Short Caribbean has a fairly similar generational breakdown. 

 

The largest market for Caribbean cruises is still South Florida (Orlando south) with New York City in the top 5 for 7 night and short Caribbean.

 

[zitsky]

2 hours ago, Eltorodiablo said:

I very much enjoyed Coco Beach club when we were there last November. It's not my job to sell you on something that you decided however long ago that you aren't interested in. For me, I like the more private beach that I don't need to find transportation to, and I like the upgraded amenities included in the beach club.

No I don’t think it is your job to convince me.  Nor is it your job to do my laundry or wash my car.  A forum is about an exchange of ideas.

[davekathy]

Tough crowd. 🙃

[Eltorodiablo]

3 minutes ago, zitsky said:

No I don’t think it is your job to convince me.  Nor is it your job to do my laundry or wash my car.  A forum is about an exchange of ideas.

Ok then try bringing your questions in good faith. 

[zitsky]

22 minutes ago, Eltorodiablo said:

Ok then try bringing your questions in good faith. 

 

That’s the laziest way I’ve seen someone discuss a topic.

 

Someone disagrees with me?  They must be “arguing in BAD FAITH”!!!

 

I’ll save you the time and trouble.  I’m not going to discuss something with someone whose only response is BAD FAITH!  BAD FAITH!

[Eltorodiablo]

Just now, zitsky said:

 

That’s the laziest way I’ve seen someone discuss a topic.

 

Someone disagrees with me?  They must be “arguing in BAD FAITH”!!!

 

I’ll save you the time and trouble.  I’m not going to discuss something with someone whose only response is BAD FAITH!  BAD FAITH!

When you're telling me to explain why something is attractive, when I've given what I see as the benefits and high points of it, that's asking in bad faith. I think I've been pretty willing to entertain your particular brand of "discussion".

[Cap_D]

I realize some people feel that the addition of CocoCay may result in a parade of horribles or less desirable experiences connected to the same cruise.  That's a risk, but I don't think that will happen as dramatically as one fears. 

 

I fail to see how a substituting CocoCay for Costa Maya, Cozumel, Key West (which doesn't want ships), etc. is going to attract a significant number of unruly boozy passengers or adults traveling with kids, or alter the excursion experiences available at ports.   Here's some observations:

 

First, it's just one day, and stuff like slides is only part of the Island.  And, as compared to many ports, the quality of the beach, pools, water sports, food and drinks, etc. at CocoCay would seem to be the same or better.  Plus, on balance, who would miss one less day of stray dogs (or other animals), beggars, walking past another Effy, or faux local Chinese souvenirs? 

 

Second, families with kids looking for high impact activities won't find it on Celebrity even with CocoCay for 25% or less of the time.  But, even if they do sail, this means they will be more tired and less unruly, if that's the concern.  

 

Booze cruisers will always flock to Carnival, a group booking on something cheap, or on the high end Virgin.  But, those looking for a boozy experience maybe more likely to do something something on land, especially in the summer.  

 

CocoCay is not being offered during the Spring Break season in the 2024 that was already scheduled, and a lot of 2025 seem to already be scheduled, too.  By the time of the canceled Beyond TA, Spring Break is over and colleges are on the verge of final exams. 

 

CocoCay is adding an adults area, and has other spaces like one finds at many of the usual ports (except, at those usual ports we haven't seen anything that is adult only  (the exception being the adult adult only places)).  Excursions that are age limited are usually because of height, mobility, or safety issues.  Sitting with a drink, but with ice one can consume, is a lot less likely to be an issue on the island than a XYZ beach club, which comes with kickbacks to the taxi drivers, etc. 

 

Adults are just as potentially annoying as kids, and similarly adults and kids are just as likely to be minding their own business, friendly, etc.   And, each are as likely or not to washy washy when using the restroom, handling food serving utensils, etc.   Good manors and etiquette don't come with age or means. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Cap_D

[Charles4515]

6 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

That’s the laziest way I’ve seen someone discuss a topic.

 

Someone disagrees with me?  They must be “arguing in BAD FAITH”!!!

 

I’ll save you the time and trouble.  I’m not going to discuss something with someone whose only response is BAD FAITH!  BAD FAITH!

They think you are just trying to stir the pot. Reading many of your posts on different topics I can see how they might come to that conclusion…

[zitsky]

4 minutes ago, Eltorodiablo said:

When you're telling me to explain why something is attractive, when I've given what I see as the benefits and high points of it, that's asking in bad faith. I think I've been pretty willing to entertain your particular brand of "discussion".

Wow.  That’s called showing interest in someone’s opinion and asking them for more detail.  I guess where I come from that’s considered acceptable.

 

[zitsky]

1 minute ago, Charles4515 said:

They think you are just trying to stir the pot. Reading many of your posts on different topics I can see how they might come to that conclusion…

People have different opinions about these recent changes.  So I should not, nor should I try to understand other poster’s opinions?

[Eltorodiablo]

2 minutes ago, zitsky said:

People have different opinions about these recent changes.  So I should not, nor should I try to understand other poster’s opinions?

Not worth my time.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Eltorodiablo
Not worth my time.

[zitsky]

Just now, Eltorodiablo said:

"This is attractive to you?" Is a disingen

It’s called asking someone their opinion.  I’ll stop replying to you as it seems you are distressed.

[Eltorodiablo]

1 minute ago, zitsky said:

It’s called asking someone their opinion.  I’ll stop replying to you as it seems you are distressed.

Stop trolling. It was a disingenuous way of asking a question. 

[Charles4515]

15 minutes ago, zitsky said:

People have different opinions about these recent changes.  So I should not, nor should I try to understand other poster’s opinions?

Well you go on and on and on and I don't see any indication you are trying to undersand other poster's opinions.  

Edited June 28, 2023 by Charles4515

[TequilaJane]

23 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

The normal stops have the same safety as before. I have never experienced any crime in the Caribbean and Mexico.  Private Islands are all about captive revenue for the cruise lines. 

I am glad you were always safe. 

8 Most Dangerous Island Countries Or Territories In The Caribbean In 2023

https://www.travelinglifestyle.net/5-most-dangerous-island-countries-in-the-caribbean-in-2023/#:~:text=Listed at number 115 on,as well as armed robberies.