How to survive if you fall off a Carnival cruise ship

[RD64]

2 hours ago, Haljo1935 said:

First - am NOT saying she deserved to get burned, so please everyone no backlash on that... One may not expect coffee to be that hot, but who puts coffee between their legs? Isn't that what cup holders are for? Being in control of a heavy, fast moving vehicle, should require full attention and focus. If Driver is focused on preparing coffee in their lap, how much is left for focusing on controlling the vehicle?

Thank you - you truly seem to be the voice of reason. Reading some of these replies, it seems like people think it is ok to drive with a cup of hot coffee between your legs.

[Cruise till you drop]

6 minutes ago, RD64 said:

But is a cup of coffee meant to be kept between your thighs? 

Here are some of the actual details of the case:

 

- Stella Liebeck was a 79-year-old woman in Albuquerque, New Mexico, whose grandson drove her to McDonald’s in 1992. She was in a parked car when the coffee spilled.

 

- Liebeck acknowledged that the spill was her fault. What she took issue with was that the coffee was so ridiculously hot — at up to 190 degrees Fahrenheit, near boiling point; that it caused third-degree burns on her legs and genitals, nearly killing her and requiring extensive surgery to treat.

 

- McDonald’s apparently knew that this was unsafe. In the decade before Liebeck’s spill, McDonald’s had received 700 reports of people burning themselves. McDonald’s admitted that its coffee was a hazard at such high temperatures. But it continued the practice, enforced by official McDonald’s policy, of heating up its coffee to near-boiling point. (McDonald’s claimedcustomers wanted the coffee this hot.)

 

- Liebeck didn’t want to go to court. She just wanted McDonald’s to pay her medical expenses, estimated at $20,000. McDonald’s only offered $800, leading her to file a lawsuit in 1994.

 

- After hearing the evidence, the jury concluded that McDonald’s handling of its coffee was so irresponsible that Liebeck should get much more than $20,000, suggesting she get nearly $2.9 million to send the company a message. Liebeck settled for less than $600,000. And McDonald’s began changing how it heats up its coffee.

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Cruise till you drop

[RD64]

3 minutes ago, Cruise till you drop said:

Here are some of the actual details of the case:

 

- Stella Liebeck was a 79-year-old woman in Albuquerque, New Mexico, whose grandson drove her to McDonald’s in 1992. She was in a parked car when the coffee spilled.

 

- Liebeck acknowledged that the spill was her fault. What she took issue with was that the coffee was so ridiculously hot — at up to 190 degrees Fahrenheit, near boiling point; that it caused third-degree burns on her legs and genitals, nearly killing her and requiring extensive surgery to treat.

 

- McDonald’s apparently knew that this was unsafe. In the decade before Liebeck’s spill, McDonald’s had received 700 reports of people burning themselves. McDonald’s admitted that its coffee was a hazard at such high temperatures. But it continued the practice, enforced by official McDonald’s policy, of heating up its coffee to near-boiling point. (McDonald’s claimedcustomers wanted the coffee this hot.)

 

- Liebeck didn’t want to go to court. She just wanted McDonald’s to pay her medical expenses, estimated at $20,000. McDonald’s only offered $800, leading her to file a lawsuit in 1994.

 

- After hearing the evidence, the jury concluded that McDonald’s handling of its coffee was so irresponsible that Liebeck should get much more than $20,000, suggesting she get nearly $2.9 million to send the company a message. Liebeck settled for less than $600,000. And McDonald’s began changing how it heats up its coffee.

 

So back to the point of this thread - is it Carnival’s responsibility if people fall (intentionally or unintentionally) and they do do provide every possible warning on the face of the earth against the possibility of falling - or providing every possible tip for survival should you fall off? Should it then be sub-divided for Caribbean, Mid-Atlantic, North Cape, Pacific to account for all of the different possible itineraries where people may or may not fall off? Caribbean conditions much better than mid-Atlantic obviously.
 

For those of you that read - in one of John Maxtone Graham’s books - I believe it was Liners to the Sun - there was a spot mid Pacific (and this is the pre Internet days) that passengers on the Matson ships sailing from the West Coast to Hawaii knew was the deepest spot in the Pacific - if they had the predilection to - would choose that spot to finish things off

[carsastic]

Survive .. best chance is to get mental health help before u go cruising .. i cant imagine the state of mind to think jumping is the way to solve issues .. poor families left behind 

[slavigne5577]

I remember the McDonald's case being in the news when I was in high school. I do not buy coffee from McDonald's to this day! I cruise as often as I can. No one falls off a cruise ship unless doing something stupid.

Edited July 3, 2023 by slavigne5577

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, slavigne5577 said:

I remember the McDonald's case being in the news when I was in high school. I do not buy coffee from McDonald's to this day! I cruise as often as I can. No one falls off a cruise ship unless doing something stupid.

"No one falls off a cruise ship unless doing something stupid" or someone else causing it, for instance the grandfather who dropped a baby out the window.

 

If someone does something stupid after getting really, really drunk, could the same theory as used in the McDonald's case be used as to the number of drinks one is allowed to consume after buying in the drink packages pushed by Carnival and other cruise lines?

[TravelBluebird]

On 6/29/2023 at 10:43 AM, Eli_6 said:

How to survive if you fall off a cruise ship in the middle of the ocean, according to a survival expert (msn.com)

 

Since this seems to be a particular problem with Carnival ships, thought I would share:

1. Don't panic.  Try not to take in water into your lungs by gasping when you first hit the water.

2. Try to find anything that floats to hold on to.  

3. Try to find something to make a signal so you are more visible to rescuers. Like arranging a bunch of trash around you.

 

 

Goodness! I can’t believe this is a thing.

 

I think the average number of people who “fall” off a cruise ship in a year is around 19 or 20–out of 20 million or so yearly worldwide cruise ship passengers.

 

So this is not a giant problem.

 

The only ways I’m in the water off a cruise ship? If the ship goes down, or if I’m thrown in by someone, in either case my problems then seem much bigger than just falling in.

[Eli_6]

16 minutes ago, TravelBluebird said:

 

Goodness! I can’t believe this is a thing.

 

I think the average number of people who “fall” off a cruise ship in a year is around 19 or 20–out of 20 million or so yearly worldwide cruise ship passengers.

 

So this is not a giant problem.

 

The only ways I’m in the water off a cruise ship? If the ship goes down, or if I’m thrown in by someone, in either case my problems then seem much bigger than just falling in.

Article states it is about 250.  Last year, 42 were rescued and survived. 

[Eli_6]

As an aside, many years ago I had a client whose husband went missing from an Alaskan cruise. Never found the body.  I never got a clear indication of the exact story and I wasn't about to ask.  I don't know exactly if they think he was abducted in the port or he was thrown from the cruise ship, etc.  I do know they think there was foul play involved. He was wealthy.  

[Haljo1935]

3 minutes ago, Eli_6 said:

As an aside, many years ago I had a client whose husband went missing from an Alaskan cruise. Never found the body.  I never got a clear indication of the exact story and I wasn't about to ask.  I don't know exactly if they think he was abducted in the port or he was thrown from the cruise ship, etc.  I do know they think there was foul play involved. He was wealthy.  

Oh my.

So the silver lining to not being among the privileged is odds of intentionally staying ON board cruise ship are better.

Seriously though, oh my.

[Eli_6]

1 minute ago, Haljo1935 said:

Oh my.

So the silver lining to not being among the privileged is odds of intentionally staying ON board cruise ship are better.

Seriously though, oh my.

Honestly, it was so long ago that I don't recall the exact story.  And I recall my paralegal googling and finding a news article about the search (in the water) for the missing body (that probably had a lot of inaccurate information in it) and then hearing a totally different story from someone else in the office that more made it seem like they think he went missing when the ship was in port and it was suspected he was probably the victim of a random robbery gone bad.  Although, I think that on some level they just don't know what happened.  I was representing the widow on a matter entirely unrelated so it wasn't exactly like I could say "So...hey, heard your husband went missing off a cruise ship a few years ago...can you give me the deets?"  

 

They were just a little old couple cruising in Alaska so certainly not anyone who one would think would be the victim of a crime...other than the fact that he probably had on an expensive watch and nice clothes and probably looked like someone who if you robbed him might have money on him.

 

 

 

 

[Haljo1935]

9 minutes ago, Eli_6 said:

...I was representing the widow on a matter entirely unrelated so it wasn't exactly like I could say "So...hey, heard your husband went missing off a cruise ship a few years ago...can you give me the deets?"  

 

They were just a little old couple cruising in Alaska so certainly not anyone who one would think would be the victim of a crime...

Really you didn't think the timing was right to take her strolling down memory lane, lol.🫣

I LOVE AK 🥰 that does seem kinda random place for an innocent disappearance.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Haljo1935
Typo

[chengkp75]

47 minutes ago, Eli_6 said:

Article states it is about 250.  Last year, 42 were rescued and survived. 

No, it says that between 2009 and 2019, there were 212 total incidents, or just over 21 per year.  The number of 48 rescued was for the same 10 year period, or about 5 per year, or 25%.

 

As for the notion of "collecting garbage to make a signal", that is just so much rubbish (sorry for the pun).  As someone who has spent a lifetime on the sea, and trained in man overboard scenarios, you would expend far too much energy (and therefore increase your hypothermia) attempting to find, collect, and control a patch of floating garbage to be worth anything.  And for those who say that if this is in warm waters, it is shown that hypothermia will begin within hours even in 75-80*F water.  And, this survival expert doesn't even mention hypothermia.

Edited July 3, 2023 by chengkp75

[Eli_6]

1 minute ago, Haljo1935 said:

Really you didn't think the timing was right to take her strolling down memory lane, lol.🫣

I LOVE AK 🥰 that does seem kinda random place for an innocent disappearance.

No kidding.  I will say that whatever happened, I don't think the widow had anything to do with it.  She was like 88 when I had her as a client and actually passed away while I was representing her so was in her 70s (as was he) when this all happened.  And they had been married like 40-50 years so it isn't like one of those things where a rich old man gets a young wife and then he suddenly has a "accident."  

 

But, yeah, totally agree with you- I would think Alaska would be one of the safest places to cruise!

[Eli_6]

11 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

No, it says that between 2009 and 2019, there were 212 total incidents, or just over 21 per year.  The number of 48 rescued was for the same 10 year period, or about 5 per year, or 25%.

 

As for the notion of "collecting garbage to make a signal", that is just so much rubbish (sorry for the pun).  As someone who has spent a lifetime on the sea, and trained in man overboard scenarios, you would expend far too much energy (and therefore increase your hypothermia) attempting to find, collect, and control a patch of floating garbage to be worth anything.  And for those who say that if this is in warm waters, it is shown that hypothermia will begin within hours even in 75-80*F water.  And, this survival expert doesn't even mention hypothermia.

Sorry. I stand corrected.  So, I guess about 20 go over in a year about 5 of those will be rescued.

 

So - question- if you went overboard in a regular boat (like an offshore fishing vessel) and for some reason got left or you got caught in a rip tide and ended up in the gulf: What should you do to try to survive?  

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Eli_6 said:

Sorry. I stand corrected.  So, I guess about 20 go over in a year about 5 of those will be rescued.

 

So - question- if you went overboard in a regular boat (like an offshore fishing vessel) and for some reason got left or you got caught in a rip tide and ended up in the gulf: What should you do to try to survive?  

If you have a PFD, use the H.E.L.P. position to reduce heat loss, if not, use the "drownproofing" method to minimize exertion and consequentially heat loss.  There are also ways to use pants or shirts to trap a bubble of air for use as a floatation device.  The best method is prevention, and if you are in a profession where going overboard is a real concern, the use of a PLB (personal locator beacon), which uses the same SAR (search and rescue) satellite network that ships' EPIRB beacons use, and connects to governmental SAR assets.

 

But, if you go overboard, know that the odds are far and away against your survival, so don't place yourself in a situation where it could happen in the first place.  Seafarers know that any help from outside, for any situation, is likely days away, so you constantly have "situational awareness" to prevent emergencies in the first place.

Edited July 3, 2023 by chengkp75

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

No, it says that between 2009 and 2019, there were 212 total incidents, or just over 21 per year.  The number of 48 rescued was for the same 10 year period, or about 5 per year, or 25%.

 

As for the notion of "collecting garbage to make a signal", that is just so much rubbish (sorry for the pun).  As someone who has spent a lifetime on the sea, and trained in man overboard scenarios, you would expend far too much energy (and therefore increase your hypothermia) attempting to find, collect, and control a patch of floating garbage to be worth anything.  And for those who say that if this is in warm waters, it is shown that hypothermia will begin within hours even in 75-80*F water.  And, this survival expert doesn't even mention hypothermia.

When you write "and trained in man overboard scenarios", can we take that as the crew actually has some man overboard drills?

[Joebucks]

On 7/1/2023 at 5:12 PM, ontheweb said:

PERSON overboard covers all situations.

 

You should also report what their VIFP status is too. Platinum members who spent their hard-earned money, shouldn't have to wait as long as those with less cruises under the belt. 

[nicoleds]

On 6/29/2023 at 11:51 AM, dolphinsfan246 said:

I hate how the media scares the general public into thinking that you can just “fall” off the ship through no fault of your own. If you fall off you either did something to deserve it, or you were murdered. 

I know! I have some friends who wont cruise because they're afraid of this sort of thing lol I try telling them its basically impossible unless you're asking for it.

[Haljo1935]

40 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

You should also report what their VIFP status is too. Platinum members who spent their hard-earned money, shouldn't have to wait as long as those with less cruises under the belt. 

Are you saying people with status should get rescued (or at least searched for) ahead of those with lesser status? Wonder how the wordsmiths will phrase that when it gets listed as a perk, lol!

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

When you write "and trained in man overboard scenarios", can we take that as the crew actually has some man overboard drills?

SOLAS requires the crew perform a man overboard drill "monthly, if practicable, but at least twice in 3 months".  The fast rescue boat must be deployed in the water monthly, to give the crew training.  Most ships will do man overboard drills at anchor (they need permission from the harbor master to launch the rescue boat in harbor), or if  they are ahead of schedule and can stop the ship for an hour or so in calm waters.

[ontheweb]

12 hours ago, Haljo1935 said:

Are you saying people with status should get rescued (or at least searched for) ahead of those with lesser status? Wonder how the wordsmiths will phrase that when it gets listed as a perk, lol!

I think he was joking, probably could have put an emoji there to make sure everyone understood that he was joking.

[staceyglow]

15 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

You should also report what their VIFP status is too. Platinum members who spent their hard-earned money, shouldn't have to wait as long as those with less cruises under the belt. 

I am just hoping that as a Platinum, I get to board the lifeboats before any of thre Blue, Red, and Gold people. 

[ninjacat123]

16 minutes ago, staceyglow said:

I am just hoping that as a Platinum, I get to board the lifeboats before any of thre Blue, Red, and Gold people. 

I am a Platinum member!  Show me to the lifeboat!🤣

[jimbo5544]

16 hours ago, ontheweb said:

When you write "and trained in man overboard scenarios", can we take that as the crew actually has some man overboard drills?

We were on a Magic cruise (John H was the CD for) and the last evening returning to Galveston around 11, we had a man jump overboard (crew member).  The ship and crew responded fast, deployed a boat and rescued the poor demented soul.  I was quite impressed with the effort.