I Have Been Woefully Ignorant Regarding Tips

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

Accounting aside,

 

All of the Crew Appreciation and Service Charge payments made by all guests on all ships in our fleet are pooled, net of credit card transaction fees. The pooled funds are distributed throughout the year in the form of compensation, including bonuses, to crewmembers fleetwide who interact directly with guests and/or behind the scenes throughout every cruise, including those in the Bar, Dining, Entertainment, Housekeeping, Guest Services, Galley and Onboard Revenue areas.

 

https://www.princess.com/html/global/disclaimers/crew-appreciation/

 

 

Good catch.  That makes it pretty clear that the service charges are adding to the daily appreciation charges in the pool.

[cruzsnooze]

59 minutes ago, ldtr said:

No they do not subtract an admin fee. The only amount which can be subtracted is the actual credit card fee charged to Princess by whatever processor the credit card transaction goes through. They cannot subtract anything else from it.

 

You also listed several people that are not part of the pool.  Officers such as the cruise director is not part of the pool. Depending on rank the CD staff might be. The retail stores are contractors and not part of the pool. Lower rank customer service and excursion desk personnel are in the pool. Basically the scope of the pool is non officer hotel side employees. It does not include contractors or employees on the ship operations side.

I know they take a 10% administration fee. The cruise director clearly falls into the entertainment category which is listed as part of the pool. Even the internet cafe crew are revenue generating.   What you want to happen and what really happens is two different things. They are not bound by any US labor laws since they register their ships abroad to avoid US taxes and regulations. 

[SargassoPirate]

59 minutes ago, memoak said:

 But if you go non plan and drink you will pay a gratuity on all drinks plus a heavy fee for the drink

Are you saying that if the standard cruiser buys a drink, there's the cost of the drink, plus a gratuity, plus a fee?

[memoak]

1 minute ago, SargassoPirate said:

Are you saying that if the standard cruiser buys a drink, there's the cost of the drink, plus a gratuity, plus a fee?

No the fee for the drink is the price of the drink itself   So that $15 drink plus 18% comes to just under $18. I will always take the plus option which makes my $60 go a very long way and I don’t have to worry about gratuities. I am breaking even by early afternoon

Edited July 31, 2023 by memoak

[cruzsnooze]

1 hour ago, ldtr said:

Australian passengers on cruises home ported in Australia with the shipboard currency  in AUD have the gratuities included in the fare, with no removal option

Actually if you look at their fare and do the conversion rate they do not pay more as one would suspect if they had the crew appreciation included. The one AUS couple I know even book through a US agency because US TA's give perks and in Australia and Europe they do not. In Europe it is reported they do not have refundable deposits so it seems logical they would want to book with a US agency on their charge cards. 

[BlerkOne]

5 minutes ago, cruzsnooze said:

I know they take a 10% administration fee. The cruise director clearly falls into the entertainment category which is listed as part of the pool. Even the internet cafe crew are revenue generating.   What you want to happen and what really happens is two different things. They are not bound by any US labor laws since they register their ships abroad to avoid US taxes and regulations. 

As Carnival Corp doesn't release individual cruise line financials, I don't see how that is possible to know.

 

If Princess did follow US labor and other US laws, they would go bankrupt.

[senior lady]

6 hours ago, cruzsnooze said:

The money goes first to Princess who deducts an adm fee. The money we pay as Americans supplements the fleet wide areas such as OZ and New Zealand who don't tip. The money does not go to the crew on the ship who serviced you. Onboard revenue includes shop keepers, cruise director and their staff (think revenue Bingo) and shore excursions , photo's and on and on............most everything is revenue generating

The store workers are hired by a outside company.  They are paid a wage.  The cruise director and his staff.  shore excursions, photo dept  are also paid a wage and aren't part of the  daily gravities 

[memoak]

2 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

As Carnival Corp doesn't release individual cruise line financials, I don't see how that is possible to know.

 

If Princess did follow US labor and other US laws, they would go bankrupt.

Which is why the Pride of America cruises are so expensive

  

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, memoak said:

Which is why the Pride of America cruises are so expensive

  

NCL had to get a waiver from Congress to get a ship US flagged and has a legal monopoly in Hawaii (which should be illegal). They have had a number of issues including high turnover in the beginning, despite paying US wages. NCL cut back on the number of ships doing Hawaii cruises or they likely would be bankrupt.

[Guest ldtr]

4 minutes ago, cheese please said:

Loved reading this. But now done with it. Too many know everythings and I need to be a Big man so I will over tip. Servers love it of course. But also think you are a idiot with a very small well you know. I will say though tipping in America is important as your minimum wage is atrocious. So to wrap up fill your boots if it makes you happy. I am not drinking the cool aid.

Funny thing is that the custom for tipping in Canada is pretty similar to the US. 

 

The Canadian minimum wage is 16.35 which is about 12.11 USD lower than minimum wage is several US states.

[Ombud]

2 hours ago, kathy49 said:

5 hours ago, donaldsc said:

 

I do not object to the amounts.  I also can live w how it is distributed to the crew members on my ship.  I did not realize that it was apparently distributed fleetwise.  This is my issue.

 

DON

Expand  

Don agree with that thinking....I am okay with the pool but not  the fleetwide deal. No question I would rather pull it off and directly tip those that have made my week (or more) a great one. This is a real game and apparently all cruise lines operate this way?

My issue is "fleetwide" which means everyone who works for PCL from laundry to CEO. Does that mean it is only general revenue headed to salaries & bonus (for all inc C-Suite)? 

 

So I'm pretty sure that I shouldn't be assessed CA in Australia just because I'm an American.  How do I get them removed & tip directly?

 

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Ombud

[rideev]

Tipping is dumb.  Just charge what you need to charge and pay employees what you need to pay them and be done with it.

 

If service is bad am I still supposed to tip?  If the food doesn't taste good am I still supposed to tip?  If the hair person owns the shop am I supposed to tip?

 

Would be so much easier if cruise lines just paid their employees a fair wage, and charged their customers a fair price, and stick with it and be done.  Then I wouldn't have to look for $2 bills.

[SargassoPirate]

30 minutes ago, memoak said:

No the fee for the drink is the price of the drink itself   So that $15 drink plus 18% comes to just under $18. I will always take the plus option which makes my $60 go a very long way and I don’t have to worry about gratuities. I am breaking even by early afternoon

Thanks  As I said, I have been woefully ignorant of how this all works.  I'm Elite, so my mini bar setup and a discounted drink in the P&E lounge is all I need.  I still give the server in the P&E lounge a little cash discretely and find that it helps ensure my butt and my drink hit the table at about the same time.  No wonder, now that I know they don't get the standard gratuity and that it goes into the pool.  

[Guest ldtr]

31 minutes ago, cruzsnooze said:

I know they take a 10% administration fee. The cruise director clearly falls into the entertainment category which is listed as part of the pool. Even the internet cafe crew are revenue generating.   What you want to happen and what really happens is two different things. They are not bound by any US labor laws since they register their ships abroad to avoid US taxes and regulations. 

The fact that they list an area does not mean that all people in that area are part of the pool. They have to list a category if anyone in that category is part of the pool.   The CD is ranked as an officer and not part of the pool.  Do not know the rank of assistants. Contractors are not.  If the medallion support people are contractors then they are not part of the pool. If they are employees then they probably are. Excursion desk personnel are revenue generating and are Princess employees and are part of the pool.  Head of that department may or may not be depending upon rank.

 

It is not US labor law.  It is US accounting and financial reporting laws, which they must follow because they are listed on US stock exchanges.  They file financial reports 10k and 10Q to the SEC and as such must meet US accounting standard and regulations.  One of which deals with gratuities.  The rules that must be followed and how they must be reported in filings.  

 

They could take a percentage of the service fees. They are not covered in the same way. Though I would be interested in why you are so certain in that exact number and where that information came from.  

 

  They can only legally take credit card fees from the gratuity portion

 

So if they were subtracting anything besides CC they would have to do so from service fees not daily gratuity charge.

[Guest ldtr]

10 minutes ago, Ombud said:

My issue is "fleetwide" which means everyone who works for PCL from laundry to CEO. Does that mean it is only general revenue headed to salaries & bonus (for all inc C-Suite)? 

 

So I'm pretty sure that I shouldn't be assessed CA in Australia just because I'm an American.  How do I get them removed & tip directly?

 

 

No it does not include non-ship board personnel.  It also does not include people on the ship operations side.  They are considered to be professional mariners and covered by different contract and pay scales.  It is only hotel side employees below officer level.  For example head waiters are part of the pool.  Head of Hotel Services is not.  Stewards and managers are part of the pool.  Head of cabin services is not. 

[Ombud]

14 minutes ago, ldtr said:

No it does not include non-ship board personnel.  It also does not include people on the ship operations side.  They are considered to be professional mariners and covered by different contract and pay scales.  It is only hotel side employees below officer level.  For example head waiters are part of the pool.  Head of Hotel Services is not.  Stewards and managers are part of the pool.  Head of cabin services is not. 

Are you sure? PCL website says:

Yes they include all those who directly draw compensation & bonuses from PCL. At the very least my CA do not stay with the personnel on the ship I'm on and certainly not with anyone I interact with. So don't those I interact with benefit more from direct tips??

 

 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Ombud

[Guest ldtr]

9 minutes ago, rideev said:

Tipping is dumb.  Just charge what you need to charge and pay employees what you need to pay them and be done with it.

 

If service is bad am I still supposed to tip?  If the food doesn't taste good am I still supposed to tip?  If the hair person owns the shop am I supposed to tip?

 

Would be so much easier if cruise lines just paid their employees a fair wage, and charged their customers a fair price, and stick with it and be done.  Then I wouldn't have to look for $2 bills.

There is a reason why it is structure this way.  There are benefits to the cruise lines, the employees and passengers compared to if they just increased fares by the same amount.

 

1. For passengers Under the tip system the gratuity amount is paid during or after the cruise, unless one buys a package.  If it was all rolled into the fare the money would need to be payed 90 days before the cruise (which it also does if one selects a fare including packages), the cost of insurance is determine by fare so if gratuity was in the fare then insurance costs would be higher.  It also puts more money are risk for a longer time after all if you do not cruise then  the gratuity money  is not at risk which it would be if is was part of the fare.

 

2. For the cruise line the gratuity amount it is outside the accounting system it is neither revenue or expenses, so while taxes would be the same, rolling those into the accounting system as part of the fare would result in a lower margin since expense and revenue would go up by the same amount.

 

3. For employees.  Depending upon their country of residence gratuities may receive different tax treatment then salaries.  Where there is a difference gratuities receive a more favorable treatment for taxes.

[joymon515]

7 hours ago, donaldsc said:

 

Another $2 bill person.

 

Re the tips.  I hate to star another tip thread.  But if If I understand the quote correctly -

 

1) The tips are distributed to "onboard revenue areas" whatever that is.

 

2) The tips are pooled fleetwise and not just to the crew members on the ship that I am sailing on.

 

Do I have it right?  I have always been totally opposed to cancelling tips and paying tips directly to the crew members.  If my point 2) is correct I may rethink that.

 

DON

Unfortunately crew are required to pool cash tips they receive as well.

[Guest ldtr]

8 minutes ago, Ombud said:

Are you sure? PCL website says:

Yes they include some but outside of contracted depts (retail & casino who do not draw a salary from PCL) I interpret it to mean all whose paychecks come from PCL

Not sure who the they is you are referring to.  

 

Fleetwide is ship side, not shoreside.

The pool is for the hotel side, not ship operations side (professional seamen and officers)

On the hotel side it is Princess employee, not contractors

On the hotel side some highly ranked  senior such as head of hotel services, head of cabin services, etc. are not part of the pool.

 

To be part of the pool they must be employed by Princess, but not all Princess employees on ship are part of the gratuity pool.

 

So exactly which they out of those do you disagree with

Edited July 31, 2023 by ldtr

[Guest ldtr]

1 minute ago, joymon515 said:

Unfortunately crew are required to pool cash tips they receive as well.

They used to.  Not so much anymore.

[Ombud]

24 minutes ago, rideev said:

Tipping is dumb.  Just charge what you need to charge and pay employees what you need to pay them and be done with it.

 

If service is bad am I still supposed to tip?  If the food doesn't taste good am I still supposed to tip?  If the hair person owns the shop am I supposed to tip?

 

Would be so much easier if cruise lines just paid their employees a fair wage, and charged their customers a fair price, and stick with it and be done.  Then I wouldn't have to look for $2 bills.

YES!! I love eating in our "no tipping zones." But then employer provided health insurance & 401K retirement policy is mandatory (ok, its just match to 3% but something). Wages are bad but no one forces them to work there (minimum wage $18.07 per hour for all employees, regardless of age or tipped status)

[Ombud]

Bowing out of this .... I will do what I personally feel is right.  Back to white envelopes (and yes, I have assigned table / HW / waiter / asst waiter onboard)

[WmFCoyote]

3 hours ago, cruzsnooze said:

Because the policy clearly states revenue generating departments which those are.

"

The Shops of Princess offer more than just accessories and sundries you may have left at home. Shop on board and benefit from incredible tax-and duty-free savings off suggested U.S. retail prices on fragrances, cosmetics, jewelry and gifts, apparel and liquor.

In addition to our everyday savings, we bring you special promotions throughout the cruise. Once on board, please check for times and locations of these exciting events by accessing JourneyView™ on your mobile device.

Plus, Elite Captain’s Circle members receive an extra 10% discount in the Shops of Princess– no exclusions!"

I do not know where you actually live but to tout the  "incredible tax-and duty-free savings off suggested U.S. retail prices on fragrances, cosmetics, jewelry and gifts, apparel and liquor." is not my experience. I live in Nevada and am able to purchase almost (I am not going to say 100%) all items that they sell in the shops on the ships for 8% to 20% less and this is including our 10% off on non "sale" items. I do not see deals...

[donaldsc]

2 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Once upon a time, cruisers had about a thousand envelopes with which they had to fill with dirty money and hand to various staff members. The current method in much preferred.

 

To say it is a bonus to Princess is misleading. The money does not go to Princess. If it did, they would have to declare it as income. Gratuities have been part of cruising forever.

 

You have a choice to adjust up until the cruise is over. But really, if you are unhappy with how Princess does business, there are other cruise lines to choose, most of which do exactly the same.

 

There are lines that include gratuities in their fare so you do not have to pay them yourself.

 

DON

[memoak]

2 minutes ago, donaldsc said:

 

There are lines that include gratuities in their fare so you do not have to pay them yourself.

 

DON

You are still paying no matter if they are in the main charge or a separate line item