Long time NCL cruiser. AWEFUL EXPERIENCE!

[minabruuke]

11 hours ago, desibee said:

The norm is to have a passport.  Only Americans seem to think this isn't the norm for any kind of international travel.

 

* SOME Americans

 

Others, including myself, think it is incredibly foolish to even consider trying to travel internationally without a passport and are very well aware that it is the norm to have a passport.

 

I actually dread my passport renewal because having my passport unavailable for use makes me feel completely trapped and unprepared. I always have and always will pay to expedite my passport renewal regardless of whether or not I have a trip planned. I see my passport as one of my most important and valuable possessions. There are people I care about abroad and people I care about that could be traveling abroad and have an emergency. I want to be able to get to those people ASAP if the need were to arise.

 

I will never understand why so many Americans are comfortable not having a passport (I understand that the cost is an issue for some). Even if one never expects to or wants to travel abroad, what if a loved one does and for some reason you need to get to that loved one in a moments notice?  In an emergency, you're not going to enjoy having to try to obtain an emergency passport.

 

 

 

[broberts]

20 hours ago, compfixer said:

Some of you know me from meet and greets I have hosted, I'm a long time NCL dedicated cruiser! 20 points from diamond, ruby level casino player, and a US Army combat veteran, usually I am a fan boy for NCL 

 

I book a 12 day repositioning cruise Oct 16th to 28th on the Joy out of New York ending in Miami. 

 

Then today, literally 3 days before I get a notice that all travelers require passports for this cruise! 

 

I did online check in, and chose birth certificate for my travel companion, no popup, warning, nothing. Printed Edocs, boarding passes... The usual. 

 

Of course I'm not leaving her behind, so I call to. Cancel, and they want to charge me over 1000.00 to cancel a trip they allowed me ro book choosing a birth certificate?

 

Unacceptable! I'm disputing with credit card company and just letting everyone know TO BE CAUTIOUS over 40 NCL cruises since 2011, and was a loyal patron. And now I get a script that I should have known!  REALLY??

 

It seems to me you should be angry with yourself for not being diligent in checking documentation requirements. Cruise contracts are very clear that the entire responsibility for having correct documentation rests with the passenger.

 

It is unfortunate that NCL IT is not up to the task of coping with specific documentation requirements. That should come as no surprise. But what would you have been able to do if online check-in had refused the BC?

 

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by broberts

[hallux]

Here's a different scenario - Domestic travel in the US requires valid government-issued photo ID (soon to be RealID-compliant ID), airlines allow you to check in 24 hours before your flight, but do ZERO checks to be sure you're compliant, though I believe they do have disclaimers that you need to bring that with you.  The counter agent, if you see them, will check your documents (just as is done when boarding a cruise).  Would someone make the same claim that the airline "should have told me when I checked in that the ID I planned to use would or would not work" when that person gets to the counter or TSA checkpoint and they get turned away because their ID was insufficient?

 

This is the same situation - the travel provider DID provide the traveler with the information needed as far as what identification was needed, the traveler chose to ignore it by not reading the cruise contract.  The travel provider did not provide a verification service of their ID during check in (just as the airlines don't).

 

I'm booked on a Panama Canal cruise in January, a friend is coming along in his own cabin, for his first cruise.  Guess what the FIRST THING I asked him when he said he wanted to book it was.  YUP - "do you have a valid passport?"  And I don't have nearly as many cruises as the OP....

[hallux]

8 minutes ago, minabruuke said:

and people I care about that could be traveling abroad and have an emergency.

This is the reason I first got a passport - my parents were starting to travel internationally more and they wanted someone to be able to hop a plane at a moment's notice if they needed 'rescuing'.  I actually renewed mine almost a year early because they and I both had nothing planned and there wasn't going to be enough time between a trip they had planned for later in the year and one I had planned early the next year to safely renew it.  It would have still been valid for my trip, but it would have been less than 6 months before renewal.

[mjkacmom]

15 minutes ago, minabruuke said:

* SOME Americans

 

Others, including myself, think it is incredibly foolish to even consider trying to travel internationally without a passport and are very well aware that it is the norm to have a passport.

 

I actually dread my passport renewal because having my passport unavailable for use makes me feel completely trapped and unprepared. I always have and always will pay to expedite my passport renewal regardless of whether or not I have a trip planned. I see my passport as one of my most important and valuable possessions. There are people I care about abroad and people I care about that could be traveling abroad and have an emergency. I want to be able to get to those people ASAP if the need were to arise.

 

I will never understand why so many Americans are comfortable not having a passport (I understand that the cost is an issue for some). Even if one never expects to or wants to travel abroad, what if a loved one does and for some reason you need to get to that loved one in a moments notice?  In an emergency, you're not going to enjoy having to try to obtain an emergency passport.

 

 

 

I don’t know anyone I’d need to get to out of this country (but I do have a passport). One of my kids doesn’t have one, sent in a renewal almost 2 months ago and got a letter saying her photo was rejected (that she paid Walgreens for, annoying). 

[msbrookelyn]

12 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

It seems to me you should be angry with yourself for not being diligent in checking documentation requirements. Cruise contracts are very clear that the entire responsibility for having correct documentation rests with the passenger.

 

It is unfortunate that NCL IT is not up to the task of coping with specific documentation requirements. That should come as no surprise. But what would you have been able to do if online check-in had refused the BC?

 

 

Exactly! Technically they had already booked the cruise. 

 

If ncl changes their online check in, then some people will complain that check in is requiring a passport when theirs simply hasn't arrived yet or are in the process of getting one. 

 

You can never satisfy everyone

[Mike A]

First off, I feel terrible for the OP and hope that they are able to work things out. I have been on other lines and at on-line check in they all do the same thing as NCL. The only thing that really needs to be changed is when you get to the Proof of Citizenship section, a disclaimer should be added that an Optional Birth Certificate will be acceptable for a US citizen ONLY on a Closed Loop cruise which starts and ends at the same US Port. 

Frankly, it is just a coincidence that the letter went out when it did, and it would be even worse if the OP showed up at the pier and was denied boarding. The letter and the subsequent article are a great reminder to people who would assume that a cruise that starts and ends in the US and NOT at the same port is not Closed Loop.

 

[Two Wheels Only]

11 minutes ago, minabruuke said:

I will never understand why so many Americans are comfortable not having a passport (I understand that the cost is an issue for some)

 

I don't believe that the cost is a valid issue. I believe that people choose to spend their money on other things instead of on a passport. When you look at the cost of a passport including photos and how long it is valid (for adults), the cost per year is trivial.  

 

If we really want to throw the thread for a loop, we should compare the cost of having a passport for 10 years vs. the cost of 1 week of  DSC. 😈

[Two Wheels Only]

10 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

One of my kids doesn’t have one, sent in a renewal almost 2 months ago and got a letter saying her photo was rejected (that she paid Walgreens for, annoying). 

 

I've also had bad luck with Walgreens/CVS for photos. Luckily, it was caught before sending in the paperwork. We use the post office for photos. They have more experience and are less likely to get it wrong. 

[minabruuke]

8 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

I don’t know anyone I’d need to get to out of this country (but I do have a passport). One of my kids doesn’t have one, sent in a renewal almost 2 months ago and got a letter saying her photo was rejected (that she paid Walgreens for, annoying). 

You wouldn't feel the need to get to one of your children if they decided to travel abroad and were seriously injured?  It may be terrible to think about and seem highly unlikely but things happen. It is not just about knowing someone who lives abroad. 

 

There was a local high school student group that traveled abroad a few years ago. They were involved in a bad accident and there were multiple fatalities and life threatening injuries. There were kids without their parents that were hospitalized with life threatening injuries and could not be immediately repatriated. It was covered quite thoroughly in our local news and one set of parents were frantically trying to get an emergency passport to get to their child; someone else went immediately to be with their child but they were delayed several days because of their choice not to have a valid passport. One of those kids died in that hospital, I never found out if it was that child. Those parents may have or could have missed their chance to say goodbye.

 

This world is full of tragedy. It is horrible to think of the worst that could happen. But I 'd rather be as prepared as possible and that means having a valid passport.

[Ashlynkat]

18 hours ago, compfixer said:

 

It is what it is! If they would have alerted me sooner, I could have a passport within 5 business days. But a Friday? 71 hours from sailing? Even I can't pull that magic!

I feel for you, I really do. But the thing is, you were alerted sooner. In fact, you were alerted the very day that you booked your cruise (however many weeks or months ago that was) when you got that cruise confirmation email that says that each passenger is required to ensure that they have proper travel documentation for their itinerary. This includes passports, visas and any vaccine requirements for the ports you are visiting.

If you still got that email in your inbox, look it up and scroll down. You will see how long ago that you were alerted to that possibility of your companion being denied boarding if they didn't have the proper travel docs (which as others have noted is different than birth certificates which only verify identity & nationality--not whether or not you can travel. You do have a valid gripe that the check in process doesn't make that clear enough.). 

Again, I feel for you because it's an easy mistake to make. Let's face it, most all of us are guilty of glossing over those terms and conditions but it is unfortunately going to be a costly mistake as you likely won't have any recourse with your credit card company or NCL because of those terms and conditions that you agreed to way back when you booked your cruise. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Ashlynkat

[mjkacmom]

25 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

I've also had bad luck with Walgreens/CVS for photos. Luckily, it was caught before sending in the paperwork. We use the post office for photos. They have more experience and are less likely to get it wrong. 

The one in town doesn’t do passports, it takes weeks to get appointments elsewhere, when 2 of my kids went in for appointments they were sent elsewhere for photos, said the camera was broken but I know others had the same issue.

[mjkacmom]

20 minutes ago, minabruuke said:

You wouldn't feel the need to get to one of your children if they decided to travel abroad and were seriously injured?  It may be terrible to think about and seem highly unlikely but things happen. It is not just about knowing someone who lives abroad. 

 

There was a local high school student group that traveled abroad a few years ago. They were involved in a bad accident and there were multiple fatalities and life threatening injuries. There were kids without their parents that were hospitalized with life threatening injuries and could not be immediately repatriated. It was covered quite thoroughly in our local news and one set of parents were frantically trying to get an emergency passport to get to their child; someone else went immediately to be with their child but they were delayed several days because of their choice not to have a valid passport. One of those kids died in that hospital, I never found out if it was that child. Those parents may have or could have missed their chance to say goodbye.

 

This world is full of tragedy. It is horrible to think of the worst that could happen. But I 'd rather be as prepared as possible and that means having a valid passport.

Well, there was a time when my passport lapsed, but at the time my kids were minors and weren’t traveling internationally. I renewed when my oldest was doing a study abroad in Greece. 

[ggTexasGal]

15 minutes ago, Ashlynkat said:

I feel for you, I really do. But the thing is, you were alerted sooner. In fact, you were alerted the very day that you booked your cruise (however many weeks or months ago that was) when you got that cruise confirmation email that says that each passenger is required to ensure that they have proper travel documentation for their itinerary. This includes passports, visas and any vaccine requirements for the ports you are visiting.

True!

 

OP also claimed he could have gone to a (US) military installation to get a Passport.

But, that is NOT true...

For those who might qualify, here is more information… https://www.passportsandvisas.com/travel-blog/military-passport-information-for-2022-5-things-you-need-to-know-now

NOTE: Even those who currently serve in uniform are told to secure regular passports! (see info within link above)

[BirdTravels]

44 minutes ago, Mike A said:

First off, I feel terrible for the OP and hope that they are able to work things out. I have been on other lines and at on-line check in they all do the same thing as NCL. The only thing that really needs to be changed is when you get to the Proof of Citizenship section, a disclaimer should be added that an Optional Birth Certificate will be acceptable for a US citizen ONLY on a Closed Loop cruise which starts and ends at the same US Port. 

Frankly, it is just a coincidence that the letter went out when it did, and it would be even worse if the OP showed up at the pier and was denied boarding. The letter and the subsequent article are a great reminder to people who would assume that a cruise that starts and ends in the US and NOT at the same port is not Closed Loop.

 

The documentation rules that is lined on every reservation DOES say that a BC is ONLY valid for US Citizens on a closed loop. Some people who are long time cruisers and experts think that they know the rules…. But don’t. 

[melc1987]

While I can definitely appreciate your frustration and disappointment with this, it is still solely your responsibility to confirm you meet the travel requirements at the time of booking so the check in process (while confusing that NCL let's you check in with a BC) is irrelevant. If you've cruised as often as you say, you should know that only a closed loop cruise beginning and ending in the same US port allows you to travel without a Passport. I've cruised 3 times and am not even an American that this rule would apply to, yet I'm aware of it. This is not NCL's fault. 

[melc1987]

20 hours ago, compfixer said:

 

I'm not jumping through hoops like a circus animal for something I should have been notified of Immediately.

 

I do appreciate your effort tho. Thank you!

Respectfully, you WERE notified immediately when you booked and agreed to the Terms and Conditions. You just assumed you knew them already and didn't take the time to read through the document. There is no way NCL is at fault for this and hopefully the multiple comments here help you realize your anger is misdirected. 

[Mike A]

57 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

The documentation rules that is lined on every reservation DOES say that a BC is ONLY valid for US Citizens on a closed loop. Some people who are long time cruisers and experts think that they know the rules…. But don’t. 

Amen to that!!!

Off topic, I thank you for jumping in on this while on your cruise. I hope you and the Bird Family are enjoying the day in Bermuda, and your Live From thread is fantastic as always. Have a safe trip home!!! 🙂

[melc1987]

18 hours ago, omahabob said:

The NCL web site has listed this requirement as far back as I can remember.

"A valid passport is required on all sailings that begin in one US port and end in another US port."

https://www.ncl.com/freestyle-cruise/cruise-travel-documents

The check-in process doesn't account for this particular requirement because it's a customs and immigration requirement, not an NCL check-in requirement. The software also does not have the ability to sift through different passport requirements for every country on every cruise (they do differ). For instance, some accept passport cards, and some do not, even though US Customs will gladly accept it. As another example, those travelling under the Visa Waiver Program often don't require a passport at all. The variations are complex and numerous, and the iterations NCL would have to build in to the software to accommodate them would similarly be very complex, and prone to errors. It also could never be guaranteed as legal or binding. That's why the NCL web site simply lists the blanket requirement, and why all customers are individually responsible for reading it, and confirming what applies to them individually. Although what happened to the OP is regrettable, it is in no way the fault of NCL.

Yep....should have been read at the time of booking. But OP assumed he knew all the rules given he's been on so many cruises....and we all know what assuming does...

[melc1987]

11 hours ago, cruiser2015 said:

I realize you've had a lot to catch up on, so I understand you may have missed some details. However, a couple of comments:

 

NCL apparently sent the letter out to a huge population of future cruisers, not just you guys sailing next week. I'd venture it was purely random that it went out yesterday. That's why it was not a callous act of telling passengers about something that was likely too late to do anything about.

 

At this later point of the discussion, I find it interesting that the letter appears to be directed specifically to US citizens even though it does not state that directly. Gee, their systems at least can make that determination.

 

Which brings me to my last observation.

After my shorter, late night catch up, on reading the latest posts on why NCL could not have prevented this sad result upon check in, my mind went back to my early lessons on programming. As a poster mentioned "if, then" statements. Others mentioned the too numerous permutations to solve the issue and the legal quicksand for NCL in trying.

First observation: you (the programmer) start simple by inputting the cruise type based on destinations. Then, a simple series of yes/no questions (e.g. US citizen; non- US citizen). After, perhaps, a few more questions, they could end any non-definitive outcome with a pop-up advising them to inquire further and/or a link to a travel doc requirements page before completing the check-in. It won't solve 100% of all passenger's status, but should be definitive for a very large portion who would be alerted to a deficiency.

By the way, in reference to our OP, the cruise parameters combined with citizenship status would easily be able to drop the birth certificate option off of the doc option list, alerting them to a problem instantly.

 

Lastly, I do see some potential legal issues if NCL were to be too specific for all possibilities like foreign countries with special requirements like visas - those are the ones that I'm suggesting would be looped into a recheck mode for the passenger.

 

While acknowledging those legal pitfalls as a legitimate concern, how is that any different than the pier check-in process? The employees must review all docs before boarding, which means they have to KNOW what docs are required. If those clerks can do it, are you telling me that a computer can't? 

The agents at check in are conforming everything is in line with customs and immigration standards at that very moment! If logic is created at check in, what if requirements change? First it would be a headache for NCL to update these and then notify impacted traveller's. People need to take responsibility for their own actions at some point.

[Capitan Obvious]

2 hours ago, dbrown84 said:

I'm actually not assuming everyone is an American.  It would have nothing to do with your citizenship.  Since this is not a closed loop cruise,

Oh, but you are. The whole "closed loop" vs "open loop" thing is directed toward Americans. You reveal the assumption every time you mention it. And it has everything to do with your citizenship. An Italian or a Canadian cannot sail on a round-trip Miami cruise without a passport. Citizenship matters.

 

2 hours ago, dbrown84 said:

I strongly believe that is what you're missing from the point we're making on this one.

 

I'm not missing it, it really isn't the point. You keep worrying about the "proof of citizenship" requirement for check in WHICH IS NOT THE SAME AS PROPER TRAVEL DOCUMENTS. Do you not get that? Even in this case, a BC is acceptable to show "proof of citizenship" (which is why it is allowed), but it is not acceptable as a travel document (which is why it will be rejected). You keep conflating the two which just confuses the point.

 

2 hours ago, dbrown84 said:

Since it's not possible for anyone at all to use a BC (it's not a closed loop cruise), they should suppress the option during the check-in process. 

 

But again...your "since it's not possible" is not accurate. It is acceptable to use the BC during check in to show proof of citizenship. 

[ExArkie]

1 hour ago, mjkacmom said:

The one in town doesn’t do passports, it takes weeks to get appointments elsewhere, when 2 of my kids went in for appointments they were sent elsewhere for photos, said the camera was broken but I know others had the same issue.

Is there a AAA office in town? They also do passport photos 

[compfixer]

4 hours ago, PATRLR said:

The difference is, according to OP, NCL didn't say anything until 3 days before embarkation.  Long after check-in.  

As I have said before in this thread, I am not saying NCL is at fault here, I am only saying NCL could have done better. 

 

That's my quirk, considering they are charging a 1000.00 fee to cancel. If I had proper notice, thus thread wouldn't exist!

[mjkacmom]

11 minutes ago, ExArkie said:

Is there a AAA office in town? They also do passport photos 

Hmm, my daughter lives an hour from me, there is an office by her (we all have AAA). This passport renewal was my birthday gift to her, she’s is super busy so not only did I pay but filled out the application and mailed it, she just needed to sign and get a photo. I’ll have her call and find out.

[compfixer]

21 minutes ago, melc1987 said:

Yep....should have been read at the time of booking. But OP assumed he knew all the rules given he's been on so many cruises....and we all know what assuming does...

 

Totally assumed, since they always call and book me so early with "the usual". 

 

Shouldn't be the consumers responsiblity to know every what their rules are, if it's a REQUIREMENT, it shouldn't allow you to check in at all. 

 

I can't proceed without an emergency contact because it's a requirement. The software knows that much.