Gratuities Are Going Up Again, Effective 11.11.2023

[time4u2go]

5 minutes ago, nferr said:

 

Plus they don't live on the ship year round. A lot of them are married and have kids and homes to pay for. Some people are ridiculous on this board.

Great point.  That's why it's nice that they have the opportunity to make significantly more money working on a cruise ship than they would at home!

[nferr]

25 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

Great point.  That's why it's nice that they have the opportunity to make significantly more money working on a cruise ship than they would at home!

 Yes. But the tips are a big part of that.

[time4u2go]

1 minute ago, nferr said:

 Yes. But the tips are a big part of that.

I agree.  That's why I think the tips should be included in the fare.

[nferr]

Just now, time4u2go said:

I agree.  That's why I think the tips should be included in the fare.

 I agree 100% on that. Or as part of fees and taxes.  

[not-enough-cruising]

48 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

A very colonial attitude. 

A very real world attitude. Anyone given the opportunity to make 2-3 times their annual potential in 9 months is very very fortunate. 

[Wolf 8]

20 minutes ago, nferr said:

 I agree 100% on that. Or as part of fees and taxes.  

I also think folding gratuities into the fare is the best answer.  It weeds out the crowd who stiff the crew and that alone will enhance the onboard atmosphere for both crew and guests.  We would still have the power to report really bad service (and if it's not made right, go elsewhere next time) and, of course give cash tips for excellence.

[Mum2Mercury]

Thoughts about crew rooms, accommodations, etc.: 

- Except for the existence of a window, the crew's room is probably a lot like the college dorm rooms in which most of us lived.  Personally, I had the time of my life living in a college dorm room ... and I paid for it!  

- When I got my first apartment, five of us shared two bedrooms and one bathroom.  (Yes, we were all poor.)  No, I don't want to live that way now, but I'm also not 20 years old and worried about paying bills each month.  

- Of course the crew has to pay for some things.  Internet and beer come to mind.  But with their needs taken care of, they probably have the option to save a good chunk of what they earn.  

- Common sense says some crew members are young and single and responsible for no one.  Others are married with families (or parents or extended family) who need their help.  So what?  We don't pay people based upon their need.  I mean, how would you react if your boss told you he's going to start paying your co-worker more because he has more children than you do?  

- Again, common sense:  I think it's safe to say each crew member has signed on because he or she believes it's the best option available.  Either it pays more than they can earn at home, or they want to get away from home and see it as an adventure, or few opportunities are available at home.  But I assume they all go in with their eyes open, aware of the pluses /minuses of the choice they're making.  I mean, every time I've accepted a job, I've certainly thought it through.  

- Consider, too, that many crew members sign on for another and another and another contract.  If they were unhappy /didn't think they were getting a fair deal, they'd have to finish out their current contract ... but they wouldn't keep coming back for more.  

 

I don't think the crew have a bad deal, but we do need to tip fairly.  I totally agree that the most fair option is to build tips into the ticket price ... but it'll never happen.  The cruise lines all want to keep their initial price as low as possible.  

 

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Mum2Mercury

[not-enough-cruising]

34 minutes ago, Mum2Mercury said:

Thoughts about crew rooms, accommodations, etc.: 

- Except for the existence of a window, the crew's room is probably a lot like the college dorm rooms in which most of us lived.  Personally, I had the time of my life living in a college dorm room ... and I paid for it!  

- When I got my first apartment, five of us shared two bedrooms and one bathroom.  (Yes, we were all poor.)  No, I don't want to live that way now, but I'm also not 20 years old and worried about paying bills each month.  

- Of course the crew has to pay for some things.  Internet and beer come to mind.  But with their needs taken care of, they probably have the option to save a good chunk of what they earn.  

- Common sense says some crew members are young and single and responsible for no one.  Others are married with families (or parents or extended family) who need their help.  So what?  We don't pay people based upon their need.  I mean, how would you react if your boss told you he's going to start paying your co-worker more because he has more children than you do?  

- Again, common sense:  I think it's safe to say each crew member has signed on because he or she believes it's the best option available.  Either it pays more than they can earn at home, or they want to get away from home and see it as an adventure, or few opportunities are available at home.  But I assume they all go in with their eyes open, aware of the pluses /minuses of the choice they're making.  I mean, every time I've accepted a job, I've certainly thought it through.  

- Consider, too, that many crew members sign on for another and another and another contract.  If they were unhappy /didn't think they were getting a fair deal, they'd have to finish out their current contract ... but they wouldn't keep coming back for more.  

 

I don't think the crew have a bad deal, but we do need to tip fairly.  I totally agree that the most fair option is to build tips into the ticket price ... but it'll never happen.  The cruise lines all want to keep their initial price as low as possible.  

 

 

Tips on the cruise fare are, by definition, no longer “tips”

[Tree_skier]

3 hours ago, broberts said:

 

😂 Let's see if I understand the logic.

 

Pay the US$18 / day or cruises will become unaffordable? Illogical.

 

Or is the argument that we should take advantage of employees so that our cruises cost less? Immoral.

 

 

Actually we have a real world example to draw accurate conclusions from.  NCL runs Pride of America doing constant 7 day Hawaii itineraries circumnavigating the islands.  They are required and employ nothing but US citizens or green card holders.  

 

We did this cruise in 2022.  

 

I paid pretty much the same price for their smallest balcony cabin on a tiny ship with very limited entertainment and extremely mediocre service as I did for a crown loft suite on Oasis of the Seas.  

 

I couldn't find a single employee that would admit that they actually liked their job, most that I interacted with were on their first contract and those willing  to speak freely said it was their last..

 

The notion that cruising could be as affordable paying US based wages to crew from 3rd world countries is nonsense. 

 

This is what will happen if you think paying US wages

Edited November 6, 2023 by Tree_skier

[Tree_skier]

Just now, Tree_skier said:

Or is the argument that we should take advantage of employees so that our cruises cost less? Immoral.

Stop cruising

[ReneeFLL]

7 hours ago, yogimax said:

Afraid of directly answering the question I see.

 

bunk beds... shared cabin

no windows

120 square feet

Wow, that’s sure luxurious!

Some kids in the US don’t even have that. They know what their cabins are like before they come on board. If they don’t, then they didn’t do the research they should have.

[ReneeFLL]

3 hours ago, dianajo67 said:

Virtually every staff member I’ve talked to is married and has a family with children or elderly parents they are responsible for back home.  A living wage isn’t just about the employee.  It’s about the employee and his/her dependents in this case.  Most of these folks are trading time away from their loved ones for the ability to hopefully improve the standard of living for their children back home.  Some may even want to send their kids to college someday.  I’m retired Air Force.  Based on the logic I’m seeing in this thread, I should not be paid when I am deployed because I’m being provided a place to eat and sleep.  Very narrow views that folks should just be happy with the potentially squalid living in their homelands and not be compensated for “deploying” in such a way they can have an improved life once returning home.  Also, who says they don’t own homes they are paying for back “home?”

 

BTW.  Staff do pay for things such as internet, phone calls etc.

You can’t compare military deployment to crew members working on ships, except that each person has chosen it. Besides, with the military you could possibly be putting your life on the line which doesn’t apply to the crew. You weren’t forced into the military and neither were the crew to work on ships. Deployment? Been there, don’t that - spouse and nobody forced us.

 

3 hours ago, time4u2go said:

I honestly don't understand how you came to this conclusion. I'm pretty sure that nobody on this thread has suggested that the crew members should not be paid.

Agreed, I have no idea what she’s talking about. Crew members don’t work for free and that they will never do. None of us would even suggest it.

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by ReneeFLL

[margo2011]

Am I missing something a good portion of those posting are not saying they don’t want to tip for services .They would like the tips to be included in the cruise price and could then tip those giving above and beyond .

When I travel and stay in hotels I don’t have to worry if the hotel staff are being payed enough .
 

Im glad our next cruises are with Azamara and tips are included in the price .

 

 

 

[bretts173]

2 hours ago, broberts said:

 

A very colonial attitude. 

The more things change the more they stay the same. 

 

Let's keep our cheap labour so we can have nice things at a lower cost. But hey we are making the world a better place by giving these people a better life.

[ReneeFLL]

3 hours ago, dianajo67 said:

Virtually every staff member I’ve talked to is married and has a family with children or elderly parents they are responsible for back home.  A living wage isn’t just about the employee.  It’s about the employee and his/her dependents in this case.  Most of these folks are trading time away from their loved ones for the ability to hopefully improve the standard of living for their children back home.  Some may even want to send their kids to college someday….

We all have responsibilities. I’ve talked to many who have sent their kids to collage, have a home, etc. That’s because they work on the ships. They earn a lot more on the ships than back at home so this obviously is a better living wage for them.

[PhillyFan33579]

12 minutes ago, bretts173 said:

The more things change the more they stay the same. 

 

Let's keep our cheap labour so we can have nice things at a lower cost. But hey we are making the world a better place by giving these people a better life.

Better to say the people who don’t remove gratuities are helping give these people a better life. 

[jean87510]

46 minutes ago, margo2011 said:

Am I missing something a good portion of those posting are not saying they don’t want to tip for services .They would like the tips to be included in the cruise price and could then tip those giving above and beyond .

When I travel and stay in hotels I don’t have to worry if the hotel staff are being payed enough .
 

Im glad our next cruises are with Azamara and tips are included in the price .

 

 

 

You are correct.  That is what some are saying.  

[jean87510]

43 minutes ago, bretts173 said:

The more things change the more they stay the same. 

 

Let's keep our cheap labour so we can have nice things at a lower cost. But hey we are making the world a better place by giving these people a better life.

That is on the cruise line to take care of their workers.  

[jean87510]

8 hours ago, time4u2go said:

They don't live at the ports of call.  They may get off the ship to buy a few items, or just as a break, but it's not like they have to pay for a place to live or even for food.  They don't even have to get off the ship.

 

Their "accomodation, meals, and medical" are all free to them on the ship, paid for by the cruise line.

 

The cruise line pays for them to travel to and from their assignments.

 

I think many of us are also wondering why service charges keep going up.  Many suspect that some of that money isn't going to the staff.

exactly.  Especially when they cut services.  

[Wolf 8]

54 minutes ago, jean87510 said:

That is on the cruise line to take care of their workers.  

I think you were trying to say, "It is on the cruise line to charge passengers enough to take care of their workers."  Or can you clue us in on some other cash inflow Celebrity has to achieve, "Economic justice"?

[bretts173]

3 hours ago, jean87510 said:

That is on the cruise line to take care of their workers.  

As long as your happy to more for your fare then I agree.

[Realrunner]

14 hours ago, Wolf 8 said:

I also think folding gratuities into the fare is the best answer.  It weeds out the crowd who stiff the crew and that alone will enhance the onboard atmosphere for both crew and guests.  We would still have the power to report really bad service (and if it's not made right, go elsewhere next time) and, of course give cash tips for excellence.

That’s what happens on P&O no tips or gratuities to pay unless you think you got exceptional service.

Everyones a winner unless you stick to the prensent model.

[icsys]

11 hours ago, jean87510 said:

That is on the cruise line to take care of their workers.  

10 hours ago, Wolf 8 said:

I think you were trying to say, "It is on the cruise line to charge passengers enough to take care of their workers."  Or can you clue us in on some other cash inflow Celebrity has to achieve, "Economic justice"?

7 hours ago, bretts173 said:

As long as your happy to more for your fare then I agree.

 

By pre-paying gratuities it is effectively an 'all-in' price and therefore you have paid

more for the fare.

 

According to > this post <, and I have no reasons to doubt it, Royal are already charging enough to take care of their workers. if this was not the case then there would be no removable gratuities and instead they would apply a service charge which cannot be removed.

[bretts173]

28 minutes ago, Realrunner said:

That’s what happens on P&O no tips or gratuities to pay unless you think you got exceptional service.

Everyones a winner unless you stick to the prensent model.

The current system has been around since the 1800's. It's not the culture of the company but the country that needs to change first 

[bjlaac]

14 hours ago, Wolf 8 said:

I also think folding gratuities into the fare is the best answer.  It weeds out the crowd who stiff the crew and that alone will enhance the onboard atmosphere for both crew and guests.  We would still have the power to report really bad service (and if it's not made right, go elsewhere next time) and, of course give cash tips for excellence.

As someone on the other side of your position I respectfully disagree with rolling tips into the fare as it no longer becomes gratuities that are earned.  For over 30 years we paid prepaid tips on cruise ship and always added extra too.  Its the constant increases year in and year out and the BS about tipping behind the scenes that have crossed the line.  I never bought into that concept but let it slide as the changes were often just 50 cents or so.

 

Just look at the previous info posted here, if minimum cruise wages are going up $8 per month ($658 to $666), that represents a 1.2% increase, yet the $2 increase in gratuities from $16 to $18 represents a 12.5% increase, where's the justification in that?

 

Its out of control and rolling up these fees into the fares just hide little tidbits of info like this.