Carnival Panorama Propulsion Issues

[Newbie_cruiser13]

1 hour ago, Melcoug-93 said:

I'm pretty sure the times are UTC.

Good catch, It is UTC on the site I just checked.  Sounds like a normal arrival time is accurate.  

[jimbo5544]

5 hours ago, TiredTrucker said:

 

I think I largely agree with your points.  As I've said, I wouldn't be happy with the Panorama situation and compensation and I think my reasons are valid.  Others disagree, and I recognize their opinions are theirs and also valid.  Furthermore, I understand Carnival's limited liability and all of that and, unhappy though I might be in the situation, I wouldn't have any intention of making demands, throwing a tantrum, or any such actions.

 

I do find it interesting when people insist their opinion and actions are automatically the appropriate ones for everyone despite the fact many of us have distinctly different backgrounds and circumstances.  Sure, there are obvious over reactions and all that, but I'm not going to insist traveler A should be content because traveler B is.  It's also easy for me to stand on my internet soapbox like this because I'm not in either traveler's shoes at the moment.

 

Lastly, on just the current sailing alone are what, thousands of passengers?  We will only hear from, and interact with, a small fraction of them here.  Hopefully most are ultimately happy.

I have been on two very expensive Carnival cruises in a row, each with a significant issue.  While I get that everyone has to decide for themselves, how they feel in regards to their situation, for us, it is what it is.  I watched (first hand) how some got consumed with what ever the issue is, and some just went along and some made the best of what it is (was).  The old proverbial glass of water, is it half full, half empty or just a glass of water.  No right or wrong, but I can tell you which group was the most unhappy during and AFTER the cruise.  That said, everybody's opinion may vary.  We leave in two days for our next cruise, her eis hoping it is boring from this discussion perspective.

[MSBfan]

Per JH’s Facebook page…

 

”Please can I start with the hundreds of people who have written to me in the last 24 hours asking for the latest news on CARNIVAL PANORAMA. Thank you for your patience and we will be sharing news with you later today so please stay tuned for that. Thank you for your patience.”

[jsglow]

Moments ago JH did a quick Facebook post basically saying they'll get future passengers info as soon as they can. 

[jsglow]

So I'm trying to understand Carnival's continuing delay regarding any specific announcement. They've literally said as close to nothing as humanly possible, including sending John out 10 minutes ago.

 

Here's a possible scenario.

 

1) She IS sailing next week. (I think that's obvious at this point.)

2) Ports are likely to be altered.

3) Repairs may be possible while underway with new parts/technicians boarding in LB.

4) Compensation will be offered.

5) The repair situation might be fluid enough, that somewhere between 2-3 days into the cruise with a 75% probability of success, they may get her back to 20 kts. (Made up numbers just to illustrate.)

6) And the closer they can get to a 'normal' itinerary, the less compensation they'll have to give.

 

Said the opposite, if they know all they can do is limp along on 7 night cruises back and forth to Cabo for the foreseeable future, they would have said that already. (Or, alternatively, pulled her from service when they can get a proper dry dock/repair berth.)

 

Thoughts @chengkp75 and others?

 

[chengkp75]

I would say only (since I don't deal in questions of guest services or public relations) that the repair situation is still uncertain, so they cannot say for sure whether or not future cruises will be affected, or how many will be affected.

[jsglow]

Maybe some progress onboard? I see that she's doing 14kts on cruisemapper. Now I know we heard some folks reportedly onboard last night saying 15 but never once did tracking info confirm. It's been 8-11 every time I've looked.

 

I'm starting to think one of @chengkp75 theories is correct and that one or more of the 5 diesel gensets is acting up or out of service. Perhaps I can bring my little Honda camping generator and help out.

[cj.cross]

They just cancelled cruises for the next 4 weeks

[ColeThornton]

 

Edited because I'm dumb.   lol

Edited November 9, 2023 by ColeThornton

[shof515]

3 minutes ago, ColeThornton said:

 

Link/Source please.

 

Thanks.

it was posted in this thread: 

 

[ProgRockCruiser]

20 hours ago, Ifixthings said:

The three carnival Vista class ships are identical. They all have the same problem 

I would phrase this as "The three Carnival Vista-class ships are essentially identical, and one would assume very close to identical in the overall power and propulsion systems.  They have all experienced problems that affects max cruising speed, but Carnival has been very careful to not divulge whether the issue is the same in all cases, whether it is design/systemic in nature, or just seemingly bad coincidences."

 

19 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

….and there are sister ships in other stables that are virtual twins to Vista class

Just hypothesizing, but maybe the sister ships don't seem to suffer the same symptoms (reduced max speed for whatever reason) because they have not stressed in utilizing those max speeds in their previous cruise stations?  Putzing around the Med might only need 10 kts max most of the time (that's a guess on my part - feel free to educate me!), but hauling up and down the California coast might be a bigger ask of the system, regularly.

 

Or maybe, because built for a different line, they really are different somewhere, somehow, and that's the weak link on the Carnival brand ships.

 

I guess I would ask the forum this:

 

Has any other class of ships in the Carnival fleet had a seemingly similar/same propulsion/power issue affect the majority of its ships before the Vista trio?

 

i.e. it sure seems like the Vista-class have had an above average rate of these types of issues compared to the rest of the fleet.  The average consumer really doesn't care why, they just care that it seems to affect a certain class of ship, and that will build up a distrust towards those ships.  On this forum we're trying to dig a little deeper (but with no real data) because we are more than the average cruiser in interest level, I suspect.

 

20 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

And you miss the point, if there was a design flaw in the azipods themselves the other ships would also have the same issue,  not just these three ships.

I doubt ABB puts out a catalog of "stock azipod designs", so I'm not sure if we can say whether the Vista-class implementation is executed anywhere else.  Maybe everything is a custom-design, and three or four in a row of the same implementation is about the limit.

 

Maybe this analogy is poor, but: most gas-powered cars have an automatic transmission these days, at least in North America.  Yet it is obvious that some manufacturers have better designs than other manufacturers.  When certain 7- 8- and/or 9-speed trannies first came out, some of them had higher than normal failure rates. (I'm thinking of Honda Pilots and related vehicles, IIRC, but could be anyone).  The trannies were a minor evolution in design, yet had very specific problems inherent in just that specific design-line.  Since then they have (hopefully) redesigned them such that future models don't have the same issue.  But it took mass production and several months of real-world use to reveal the issues.  (Or the manufacturer knew there "could" be problems, but white-washed them.)

 

Maybe the Vista-class azipods are like that.  Or maybe not.  Only Carnival knows, I suppose.  I hope they know...

[chengkp75]

2 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

I doubt ABB puts out a catalog of "stock azipod designs", so I'm not sure if we can say whether the Vista-class implementation is executed anywhere else.  Maybe everything is a custom-design, and three or four in a row of the same implementation is about the limit.

And, you would be completely wrong.  They most definitely have a series of stock azipod sizes.  If everything was custom made, it would take forever, and stocking spare parts, whether with the cruise line, or with the manufacturer would be prohibitively costly.  When a ship is designed, they choose the model of azipod that most closely matches the power required to move the ship at the desired speed.  This can then result in either pods that have more power than required (typical), or pods that cannot provide the desired speed (and the design speed is therefore reduced).  There are basically three "frame sizes" (size of the pod itself) for pods large enough for cruise ships.  Within these frames, you can specify various sized motors to provide the power you want, but everything else in the pod is designed for the largest possible power within that frame size.  So, if you want a 17Mw pod, the 20Mw pod would have bearings, seals, and support systems sized for 20Mw, not 17Mw, and therefore would be "oversized".

[ProgRockCruiser]

19 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And, you would be completely wrong. 

Well, alrighty then!  Thanks very much for the correction!

[mz-s]

It's not just the Vista class that has had issues with azipods. Royal has had issues. NCL. Even Disney has had issues with Azipods.

 

Why are some on here trying to gaslight?

 

Amazing how long people can bleat on about things they know absolutely nothing about.

[jsglow]

Sooooo, I've been a bit busy. Our entire family was on one of the impacted cruises. Within seconds I was on the phone with our 20 year incumbent PVP.  And we successfully got a couple cabins locked down on the 4 night Radiance Catalina/Ensenada run that same week. Family is all flying in from different cities. We'll hang an extra night in Orange County so no flights are impacted.

 

It absolutely pays to have the best, most senior PVPs at Carnival. That replacement cruise was literally sold out in minutes. She was only able to HOLD for one hour as family phone calls happened. #donedeal

Edited November 9, 2023 by jsglow

[RCmommy]

7 minutes ago, jsglow said:

Sooooo, I've been a bit busy. Our entire family was on one of the impacted cruises. Within seconds I was on the phone with our 20 year incumbent PVP.  And we successfully got a couple cabins locked down on the 4 night Radiance Catalina/Ensenada run that same week. Family is all flying in from different cities. We'll hang an extra night in Orange County so no flights are impacted.

 

It absolutely pays to have the best, most senior PVPs at Carnival. That replacement cruise was literally sold out in minutes. She was only able to HOLD for one hour as family phone calls happened. #donedeal

Glad you were able to find and snag a solution!

[RCmommy]

27 minutes ago, jsglow said:

Sooooo, I've been a bit busy. Our entire family was on one of the impacted cruises. Within seconds I was on the phone with our 20 year incumbent PVP.  And we successfully got a couple cabins locked down on the 4 night Radiance Catalina/Ensenada run that same week. Family is all flying in from different cities. We'll hang an extra night in Orange County so no flights are impacted.

 

It absolutely pays to have the best, most senior PVPs at Carnival. That replacement cruise was literally sold out in minutes. She was only able to HOLD for one hour as family phone calls happened. #donedeal

I have no idea if this is allowed, but are you able to share the name and contact for your PVP? If it is not, please ignore. I do not use one, I just book myself.  However, I have a disabled friend who uses one from every cruise line as he books accessible cabins.  He tried to put a cabin on hold yesterday and the PVP he spoke with gave him some very incorrect information so he has zero confidence. 

[hard_eight]

2 minutes ago, RCmommy said:

I have no idea if this is allowed, but are you able to share the name and contact for your PVP? If it is not, please ignore. I do not use one, I just book myself.  However, I have a disabled friend who uses one from every cruise line as he books accessible cabins.  He tried to put a cabin on hold yesterday and the PVP he spoke with gave him some very incorrect information so he has zero confidence. 

Can't sadly.

[jsglow]

3 minutes ago, RCmommy said:

I have no idea if this is allowed, but are you able to share the name and contact for your PVP? If it is not, please ignore. I do not use one, I just book myself.  However, I have a disabled friend who uses one from every cruise line as he books accessible cabins.  He tried to put a cabin on hold yesterday and the PVP he spoke with gave him some very incorrect information so he has zero confidence. 

I'm sorry. It's not allowed. I wish I could help you.

[RCmommy]

Just now, hard_eight said:

Can't sadly.

Ah, bummer.  Okay.  My apologies. 

[RCmommy]

2 minutes ago, jsglow said:

I'm sorry. It's not allowed. I wish I could help you.

I wish I could help him 😞    No worries, thanks anyway.

[sparks1093]

1 hour ago, RCmommy said:

I wish I could help him 😞    No worries, thanks anyway.

You could try to find out on social media. 

[Old Fart Cruisers]

48 minutes ago, Ifixthings said:

At the end of the day, the propulsion system needs to be fixed. 

 

Why not start the work in the morning instead of at the end of the day🤔?

[sparks1093]

1 hour ago, Ifixthings said:

Yes they are the same ship.  Just like if you had 3 Honda accords

Except Carnival doesn't own all of the Honda Accords. Other cruise lines own them too.

[kwokpot]

On 11/8/2023 at 2:23 PM, csm5986142 said:

 

I think you will be fine.  The one time we got back to port late, we could have easily made a flight at noon or later.  It was my own fault, I should not have booked such an early flight (I think it was either 10:30 or 11:00) but we've done that port many times (on both Radiance and Panorama) and always had plenty of time.    

And Carnival did warn us with an email a few weeks prior to our cruse (that the propulsion issues would likely cause us to be late) but by then the flights were already booked and it would have cost just as much to change them at that point, as to wait and see if we could make it (and then change them when we realized we wouldn't make it). 

Fortunately there are so many airports to choose from when sailing out of Long beach, we can always make something work (but LGB is my favorite - small, calm, quiet, open-air waiting area after security).

Given what you posted I wanted to ask for your advice. Our Panorama sailing isn't until April 20 but we currently have a flight booked on Southwest out of LAX on the day of disembarkation to Honolulu at 12:10pm. It looks like official disembarkation time is always listed at 9:00am for the Panorama. Given your experience with this ship and itinerary, will we have a problem making this flight? We plan to carryon our luggage so no checking luggage at the airport. Our alternatives is an evening flight at 6PM or later, or staying overnight in LA and catching a early morning flight the next day. We're boarding another cruise 3 days later, so staying overnight in LA wouldn't be a problem, but TBH I rather have more time in Honolulu than in LA. But flying the next day is an acceptable alternative. You have any personal thoughts on this? thank you for any insight you can give.