Disembarkation across P & O

[jeanlyon]

3 minutes ago, zap99 said:

You have a long journey Jean.

Not that long.  About 3 hours to Devon, pick up the dog and home.  🙂

[john watson]

2 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

But then it wouldn't be hidden 😂 

Very true but this information needs to be revealed.  The spotty lanyard successfully keeps the disability hidden but then not having a lanyard would achieve the same aim.

 

Regards John

[john watson]

1 minute ago, jeanlyon said:

Not that long.  About 3 hours to Devon, pick up the dog and home.  🙂

 

It seems a very long trek to pick up a dog in Devon if you live in Kent.

 

Regards John

[zap99]

5 minutes ago, Harryjacobs said:

Some of us have 4 or more hour drive home and need to crack on

Let those with a long journey leave first. No problem with that. Any time before lunch will suit us.

[bobstheboy]

27 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

Even then no rush to get back North. People rush off the plane just for them to get stuck on a bus, passport control or even baggage reclaim don't see the point. The ship will wait or you could be waiting longer for bags to turn up.

 

In October someone rushed off the plane just to wait on the bus and complained when the luggage was taking so long to appear. Someone even rushed off the bus to try and get through security quickly they ended up being near the back of the queue after.

No comparison with an airport or port. If you use the M3, M25  and M1, I would sooner leave at 0800 than 0930.

[FangedRose]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

And there in a nutshell is my point.    Not many lanyards with cruise cards are like these, which are officially recognised throughout the country. Sadly many say they don't know they exist.  

Trouble is anyone can buy them (or very similar, and us civilians can't tell the difference) from Amazon. We all know, or read, about people using them to dodge mask wearing during the height of covid.

[john watson]

3 minutes ago, bobstheboy said:

No comparison with an airport or port. If you use the M3, M25  and M1, I would sooner leave at 0800 than 0930.

I see your point at 0800 the roads are free.

 

Regards John

[carlanthony24]

4 minutes ago, bobstheboy said:

No comparison with an airport or port. If you use the M3, M25  and M1, I would sooner leave at 0800 than 0930.

M3,M40,M42/M6 all horrible especiallly M40 around Oxford. Not a big deal for us.

[Bill Y]

1 hour ago, zap99 said:

As you said previously ,many people don't know what it is. I do now, so the extremely well advertised scheme passed me by... Just me ?

 

54 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Exactly.  It might also help if there was writing on the lanyard to say what it is for.  From the look of the photo, there isn't.  It just looks like a slightly glammed-up lanyard of the type that hundreds of people on any ship wear.

 

41 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I doubt I would recognise a hidden disabilities lanyard, and since a lot of people wear cruise lanyards, then recognition might be difficult.

Perhaps we need educating about them, and some publicity to help us recognise them.

 

32 minutes ago, john watson said:

 

I would not have any idea of any message this lanyard might be trying to portray. To be more successful it might say HIDDEN DISABILITY.  I would understand that.

 

Regards John

I think people are being a bit harsh on those who have no idea that these flowery lanyards have a meaning or have not heard of a “hidden disability lanyard”. As people have also posted on here it’s not just DW or myself who do not know of them. So I must refute the claim that they are well advertised, but admit that we retired well before 2016, and will probably be told that we must get out more.

[FangedRose]

1 hour ago, jeanlyon said:

No I am not famous for different experiences.  I have never been told on a cruise what somebody paid.  No I am not obsessive about hygiene, although I do wash my hands after using the loo.  I have never had norovirus.  My husband did catch a cold on board, but that's all.  We have cruised for 20 years.

 

I will repeat.  We disembarked Aurora in October.  We had breakfast at 7.15, were back at our cabin at 0755 and left and went to the lifts.  The first one had people in it, so we waited for the next.  Nobody in it, we went down to Deck 5 and disembarked.  What is so difficult to believe about that?  

 

If the first non-self-disembarkation is about 0830, what the hell is the problem.

Wrong comment.

Edited December 19, 2023 by FangedRose

[Selbourne]

1 minute ago, FangedRose said:

We all know, or read, about people using them to dodge mask wearing during the height of covid.

Yes, that’s when I first became aware of them. They were the only sure fire way of stopping your glasses steam up 😂 

[zap99]

1 minute ago, Bill Y said:

 

 

 

I think people are being a bit harsh on those who have no idea that these flowery lanyards have a meaning or have not heard of a “hidden disability lanyard”. As people have also posted on here it’s not just DW or myself who do not know of them. So I must refute the claim that they are well advertised, but admit that we retired well before 2016, and will probably be told that we must get out more.

It seems that a good many folk don't know ( didn't know ) what they are......don't you know who I am ? springs to mind.

[FangedRose]

1 minute ago, Selbourne said:

Yes, that’s when I first became aware of them. They were the only sure fire way of stopping your glasses steam up 😂 

You are right. I'm still working my way through all the different cleaners and lens wipes I accumulated, all promising to keep my vision clear.

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Exactly.  It might also help if there was writing on the lanyard to say what it is for.  From the look of the photo, there isn't.  It just looks like a slightly glammed-up lanyard of the type that hundreds of people on any ship wear.

You clip your access card or the card from the organisation to it. I recall Vampiress mentioning she has the access card, she could therefore use the lanyard although it's a choice.  The lanyard is acknowledged worldwide.

 

Obviously they are not printed as they represent dozens of illnesses and disabilities.  One use for instance is access to disability lavatories for people with bowel issues to save embarrassing confrontations.

 

https://hdsunflower.com/uk/

 

[Megabear2]

41 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

But then it wouldn't be hidden 😂 

I'm so glad it's funny.  

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

I'm so glad it's funny.  

I think you are being a bit harsh about those of us who did not know about this lanyard, and personally even having an access card attached would make little difference, since I don't know anything about them either.

If, as you indicate, this is a major issue for those with hidden disabilities, then I think they need a much clearer device to make this apparent to the general public, so that we can give wearers the same courtesy that wheelchair, rollater and walking stick users are granted when using lifts, escalators and disabled toilets.

[Ardennais]

3 hours ago, zap99 said:

As you said previously ,many people don't know what it is. I do now, so the extremely well advertised scheme passed me by... Just me ?

Not just you. 

[zap99]

14 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I think you are being a bit harsh about those of us who did not know about this lanyard, and personally even having an access card attached would make little difference, since I don't know anything about them either.

If, as you indicate, this is a major issue for those with hidden disabilities, then I think they need a much clearer device to make this apparent to the general public, so that we can give wearers the same courtesy that wheelchair, rollater and walking stick users are granted when using lifts, escalators and disabled toilets.

I may have mentioned in passing that I broke a bone in my hand. It hurt and I had it in a strap thing. 5 weeks ago. They said remove the strap after 4 weeks. It will heal in 6-8 weeks....Thank you all for your sympathy. I took the straps of last week. It's doing OK, still a bit tender, but OK. During those 4 weeks......If anybody got within 2 metres. ...mind me flipping hand!....If I had relied on a flowered lanyard,  I doubt that would have had the same effect.🤣

[cruising.mark.uk]

9 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

You clip your access card or the card from the organisation to it. I recall Vampiress mentioning she has the access card, she could therefore use the lanyard although it's a choice.  The lanyard is acknowledged worldwide.

 

Obviously they are not printed as they represent dozens of illnesses and disabilities.  One use for instance is access to disability lavatories for people with bowel issues to save embarrassing confrontations.

 

https://hdsunflower.com/uk/

 

OK, so I now know more about this scheme than I did before I read this thread.  And, like most people (I am sure), I'm happy to help those with hidden disabilities where that is appropriate and possible.

 

But, it is clear to me from the website that this scheme is designed to identify people with hidden disabilities to the staff of transport and related businesses so that they can provide appropriate assistance, not to the general public.  That makes sense given that - by definition - the nature of an individual's hidden disability and thus the assistance they might require in any given situation will not be immediately apparent to those around them.  A discreet request to staff members who are aware of the the scheme and the lanyards will hopefully see appropriate assistance provided in a way that helps the wearer without advertising their disability to all around them.  

 

However, the discussion about hidden disabilities on this thread started from what seemed to be an expectation that Joe Public will give someone wearing the lanyard priority access to a lift on debarkation day.  That seems to me to be something well outside the intent of the scheme and a somewhat unrealistic expectation.  It assumes (a) that Joe Public knows what the lanyard means - and the responses from posters on this thread suggest that many / most do not and (b) is able somehow to discern that the hidden disability the individual in question has makes it difficult for them to take stairs when very many hidden disabilities (e.g. the one you quote above) would not.   I doubt it is reasonable to expect this level of analysis from harried people trying to get off the ship. 

 

I'd encourage those with a hidden disability who believe they need priority access to a lift to ask for it politely and explain why.  It seems to me that is more likely to achieve the desired effect than wearing a lanyard applicable to a huge range of conditions / problems potentially requiring myriad different types of assistance / priority, which is unrecognisable to most members of the public (and one which, given the 'hidden' nature of hidden disabilities it would be very easy to abuse) and expecting Joe Public to intuit what the wearer's disability is and to deliver / facilitate the required assistance / priority.  In my experience, most people are more than willing to provide appropriate assistance to those who are genuinely less able than themselves.  But, most people are not mind readers.  So, those who need help should be prepared to ask for it and explain their need.  

[zap99]

1 hour ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

OK, so I now know more about this scheme than I did before I read this thread.  And, like most people (I am sure), I'm happy to help those with hidden disabilities where that is appropriate and possible.

 

But, it is clear to me from the website that this scheme is designed to identify people with hidden disabilities to the staff of transport and related businesses so that they can provide appropriate assistance, not to the general public.  That makes sense given that - by definition - the nature of an individual's hidden disability and thus the assistance they might require in any given situation will not be immediately apparent to those around them.  A discreet request to staff members who are aware of the the scheme and the lanyards will hopefully see appropriate assistance provided in a way that helps the wearer without advertising their disability to all around them.  

 

However, the discussion about hidden disabilities on this thread started from what seemed to be an expectation that Joe Public will give someone wearing the lanyard priority access to a lift on debarkation day.  That seems to me to be something well outside the intent of the scheme and a somewhat unrealistic expectation.  It assumes (a) that Joe Public knows what the lanyard means - and the responses from posters on this thread suggest that many / most do not and (b) is able somehow to discern that the hidden disability the individual in question has makes it difficult for them to take stairs when very many hidden disabilities (e.g. the one you quote above) would not.   I doubt it is reasonable to expect this level of analysis from harried people trying to get off the ship. 

 

I'd encourage those with a hidden disability who believe they need priority access to a lift to ask for it politely and explain why.  It seems to me that is more likely to achieve the desired effect than wearing a lanyard applicable to a huge range of conditions / problems potentially requiring myriad different types of assistance / priority, which is unrecognisable to most members of the public (and one which, given the 'hidden' nature of hidden disabilities it would be very easy to abuse) and expecting Joe Public to intuit what the wearer's disability is and to deliver / facilitate the required assistance / priority.  In my experience, most people are more than willing to provide appropriate assistance to those who are genuinely less able than themselves.  But, most people are not mind readers.  So, those who need help should be prepared to ask for it and explain their need.  

What a well crafted post.

Many years ago my old dad needed to have his leg amputated at 68. He struggled a bit. Eventually we got him driving and it restored his confidence and independence,  a bit. One if my pet hates Is people who park on pavements. Wheel chairs users and parents with buggies need to go into the road. I have even called out spotty youths driving police cars " I suppose picking up you KFC is a good reason.. Sir ". I am very aware of assisting where I can and feel I do my best. So the comment " so you ignore the lanyards then ?" was a bit hurtful. I genuinely didn't know and felt that I was at fault and ignorant...uncaring.  Seems it wasn't me. Now I know I can act in an appropriate manner. But perhaps folk who are involved in and use this scheme also need to be aware..not everybody who doesn't jump out of the way is being selfish.

Edited December 20, 2023 by zap99

[david63]

@cruising.mark.uk The majority of what you say is correct in that the Sunflower lanyard (in fact it is the Sunflower logo) is aimed primarily at those within organisations who interface with the public. I do no expect a passenger on a cruise ship to necessarily be aware of a Sunflower lanyard but I do expect the staff to be.

 

1 hour ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

those who need help should be prepared to ask for it and explain their need.  

I would, however, disagree with statement - nobody should have to explain their needs and in some situations it would contravene the Equality Act to have to do so. We should all treat everyone else with courtesy, respect and tolerance whether they are wearing a lanyard or not.

 

One final point - statistically at least half the members of this board either have, have had or will at some point in their lives have a hidden disability as cancer is classified as a disability, but do not confuse someone having a disability with being disabled.

[Selbourne]

1 hour ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

OK, so I now know more about this scheme than I did before I read this thread.  And, like most people (I am sure), I'm happy to help those with hidden disabilities where that is appropriate and possible.

 

But, it is clear to me from the website that this scheme is designed to identify people with hidden disabilities to the staff of transport and related businesses so that they can provide appropriate assistance, not to the general public.  That makes sense given that - by definition - the nature of an individual's hidden disability and thus the assistance they might require in any given situation will not be immediately apparent to those around them.  A discreet request to staff members who are aware of the the scheme and the lanyards will hopefully see appropriate assistance provided in a way that helps the wearer without advertising their disability to all around them.  

 

However, the discussion about hidden disabilities on this thread started from what seemed to be an expectation that Joe Public will give someone wearing the lanyard priority access to a lift on debarkation day.  That seems to me to be something well outside the intent of the scheme and a somewhat unrealistic expectation.  It assumes (a) that Joe Public knows what the lanyard means - and the responses from posters on this thread suggest that many / most do not and (b) is able somehow to discern that the hidden disability the individual in question has makes it difficult for them to take stairs when very many hidden disabilities (e.g. the one you quote above) would not.   I doubt it is reasonable to expect this level of analysis from harried people trying to get off the ship. 

 

I'd encourage those with a hidden disability who believe they need priority access to a lift to ask for it politely and explain why.  It seems to me that is more likely to achieve the desired effect than wearing a lanyard applicable to a huge range of conditions / problems potentially requiring myriad different types of assistance / priority, which is unrecognisable to most members of the public (and one which, given the 'hidden' nature of hidden disabilities it would be very easy to abuse) and expecting Joe Public to intuit what the wearer's disability is and to deliver / facilitate the required assistance / priority.  In my experience, most people are more than willing to provide appropriate assistance to those who are genuinely less able than themselves.  But, most people are not mind readers.  So, those who need help should be prepared to ask for it and explain their need.  

You raise some excellent points. One thing though. Although my wife is a full time wheelchair user, we don’t expect priority access to lifts, just access. As stated previously, the issue that wheelchair etc users have that those with hidden disabilities don’t is space. This is often overlooked in these debates. Most of the time, it is possible for an able bodied person or someone with a hidden disability, to join an already quite full lift. That is simply not an option for us. My wife’s wheelchair is not big, but we take up around one third of a lift on most ships and half a lift on Iona (which has smaller lifts). On disembarkation morning, when almost everyone is using the lifts within a narrow time window, mostly with hand luggage of varying sizes, trying to get a lift that is at least one-third empty can be very difficult. 
 

Due to this, I sometimes have to do exactly as you suggest. If we have been waiting for some time with lift after lift being too full to accommodate us, as a lift arrives I will politely explain to those inside that there are wheelchair and scooter users waiting, and have been waiting for some time, and if anyone is able to continue their journey via the stairs we would be immensely grateful. Usually it just results in vacant looks or an avoidance of eye contact, but very occasionally kind hearted people will vacate. I only ever resort to this on disembarkation morning, but on Iona I had to do this mid-cruise on occasions.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Selbourne

[Megabear2]

38 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

OK, so I now know more about this scheme than I did before I read this thread.  And, like most people (I am sure), I'm happy to help those with hidden disabilities where that is appropriate and possible.

 

But, it is clear to me from the website that this scheme is designed to identify people with hidden disabilities to the staff of transport and related businesses so that they can provide appropriate assistance, not to the general public.  That makes sense given that - by definition - the nature of an individual's hidden disability and thus the assistance they might require in any given situation will not be immediately apparent to those around them.  A discreet request to staff members who are aware of the the scheme and the lanyards will hopefully see appropriate assistance provided in a way that helps the wearer without advertising their disability to all around them.  

 

However, the discussion about hidden disabilities on this thread started from what seemed to be an expectation that Joe Public will give someone wearing the lanyard priority access to a lift on debarkation day.  That seems to me to be something well outside the intent of the scheme and a somewhat unrealistic expectation.  It assumes (a) that Joe Public knows what the lanyard means - and the responses from posters on this thread suggest that many / most do not and (b) is able somehow to discern that the hidden disability the individual in question has makes it difficult for them to take stairs when very many hidden disabilities (e.g. the one you quote above) would not.   I doubt it is reasonable to expect this level of analysis from harried people trying to get off the ship. 

 

I'd encourage those with a hidden disability who believe they need priority access to a lift to ask for it politely and explain why.  It seems to me that is more likely to achieve the desired effect than wearing a lanyard applicable to a huge range of conditions / problems potentially requiring myriad different types of assistance / priority, which is unrecognisable to most members of the public (and one which, given the 'hidden' nature of hidden disabilities it would be very easy to abuse) and expecting Joe Public to intuit what the wearer's disability is and to deliver / facilitate the required assistance / priority.  In my experience, most people are more than willing to provide appropriate assistance to those who are genuinely less able than themselves.  But, most people are not mind readers.  So, those who need help should be prepared to ask for it and explain their need.  

Thank you for your polite reply and for taking the time to read the link, which I very much appreciate.  Just to clear up, at absolutely no point was I suggesting that members of the public should give priority to those wearing a sunflower lanyard for boarding a lift, I simply asked people who made flippant jokes about not seeing hidden disabilities if they ignored anyone wearing the lanyard.  The replies indicate they had no idea of its existence so now they are aware and hopefully a few less people to be ignoring the handful or so I see wearing them on ships.

 

People can be incredibly rude for example to anyone trying to enter a lift just because they perceive a person to be able bodied or for someone using a disabled lavatory as they immediately think queue jumper.  The wearing of one is to try to prevent individual's embarrassment, a subtle sign to others.

 

The lanyard was introduced for exactly that: a person is in need for whatever reason of more time or has a need that other individuals cannot see.  It is intended to help individuals be saved the acute embarrassment of having to enter conversations with other individuals about what that condition may be and its expanded use worldwide is a sign that it was very much needed. People being challenged as to their motives should be unnecessary with awareness.

 

It was as you say introduced originally to assist with airports and other transport hubs, a job it has done very well, as you will have seen from the website I posted a link to.   The scheme was widely advertised and spoken about prior to the pandemic.  It was never intended to give priority to the wearer, it was intended to assist with the rudeness and impatience shown by very large numbers to people who have often life threatening unseen conditions.  I see comments in the thread that they read of people buying them to jump queues in the pandemic, ironically they don’t have the purpose of jumping queues and as so many stated they didn’t know they existed these sad individuals presumably didn’t jump many queues.

 

Finally you mention the case I quote - I assume you mean my husband's.  At no point did I say he needs priority, that's the assumption every single person who has launched their attack has made. What I did say was he needs lift access as it can be dangerous to his health for him to use stairs, particularly to walk up and when they are extremely busy - before any smart comments come back we are fully aware he would use them In an emergency and have completed the necessary forms with the cruise lines over the years to advise of this.

 

The irony of all this has proven exactly the reason the lanyard was introduced: Joe Public is very sceptical and thinks everyone is trying to con the world and unless he can see physical evidence someone is disadvantaged will say tough luck.  

 

Thank you to those who have said they will now be more aware.

 

 

 

 

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

Thank you for your polite reply and for taking the time to read the link, which I very much appreciate.  Just to clear up, at absolutely no point was I suggesting that members of the public should give priority to those wearing a sunflower lanyard for boarding a lift, I simply asked people who made flippant jokes about not seeing hidden disabilities if they ignored anyone wearing the lanyard.  The replies indicate they had no idea of its existence so now they are aware and hopefully a few less people to be ignoring the handful or so I see wearing them on ships.

 

People can be incredibly rude for example to anyone trying to enter a lift just because they perceive a person to be able bodied or for someone using a disabled lavatory as they immediately think queue jumper.  The wearing of one is to try to prevent individual's embarrassment, a subtle sign to others.

 

The lanyard was introduced for exactly that: a person is in need for whatever reason of more time or has a need that other individuals cannot see.  It is intended to help individuals be saved the acute embarrassment of having to enter conversations with other individuals about what that condition may be and its expanded use worldwide is a sign that it was very much needed. People being challenged as to their motives should be unnecessary with awareness.

 

It was as you say introduced originally to assist with airports and other transport hubs, a job it has done very well, as you will have seen from the website I posted a link to.   The scheme was widely advertised and spoken about prior to the pandemic.  It was never intended to give priority to the wearer, it was intended to assist with the rudeness and impatience shown by very large numbers to people who have often life threatening unseen conditions.  I see comments in the thread that they read of people buying them to jump queues in the pandemic, ironically they don’t have the purpose of jumping queues and as so many stated they didn’t know they existed these sad individuals presumably didn’t jump many queues.

 

Finally you mention the case I quote - I assume you mean my husband's.  At no point did I say he needs priority, that's the assumption every single person who has launched their attack has made. What I did say was he needs lift access as it can be dangerous to his health for him to use stairs, particularly to walk up and when they are extremely busy - before any smart comments come back we are fully aware he would use them In an emergency and have completed the necessary forms with the cruise lines over the years to advise of this.

 

The irony of all this has proven exactly the reason the lanyard was introduced: Joe Public is very sceptical and thinks everyone is trying to con the world and unless he can see physical evidence someone is disadvantaged will say tough luck.  

 

Thank you to those who have said they will now be more aware.

 

 

 

 

Since the lanyard seems to cover a wide range of hidden disabilities, then it is impossible for the public, and probably even lanyard aware staff, to know immediately the sort of assistance the wearer might need. In which case I question the benefit of a lanyard, as opposed to a card that can be shown to a staff member when the individual requires assistance.

 But this still does not resolve their possible lift issues on disembarkation day or during the cruise.

[Megabear2]

31 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Since the lanyard seems to cover a wide range of hidden disabilities, then it is impossible for the public, and probably even lanyard aware staff, to know immediately the sort of assistance the wearer might need. In which case I question the benefit of a lanyard, as opposed to a card that can be shown to a staff member when the individual requires assistance.

 But this still does not resolve their possible lift issues on disembarkation day or during the cruise.

There is a card as I mentioned above, the clip at the bottom is to hold the card.  Various disability organisations also offer a registration card, one notable one being the bowel associations as it is extremely common for people to be challenged on use of disabled toilets.  The access card is available for use in public entertainment venues etc.  It was intended as a small step to people being challenged or tutted at if they are slow.  

 

The lanyard in itself isn't intended to ensure or ask for assistance.  It is worn to indicate the person may have a special need which if they require it could require help.  Basically it is there to stop scenarios of people challenging someone's need.

 

P&O along with the other cruise lines recognise the sunflower logo and lanyard.  They are fully conversant with its use and application and to my certain knowledge encourage its use - when I was recovering from an accident earlier this year and had difficulty standing for periods they suggested the wearing of one to assist me and identify myself to staff without needing to go into detail.

 

The question of lift etiquette, be it on disembarkation or other periods is really an individual issue be it for someone on a large mobility scooter, a wheelchair, a stick or just I'm using the lift because I'm perfectly entitled to.  Unfortunately the judging by individuals and the downright rudeness with filthy looks and comments towards people perceived in the seconds a lift door opens are the upsetting factors.

 

I do not intend to say any more on the subject but hope that perhaps a few who might spot a sunflower may in the future note it and understand its relevance.  

 

Ironically we travel to the airport today to fly tomorrow, no assistance requested but we have had a note from the airport (they provided a lanyard when ours was mislaid on one trip) to say people are on hand and aware we may need unexpected help so please ensure your lanyard is on view. 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Megabear2