Need advice

[mawvkysc]

Sorry this happened. 

Edited December 22, 2023 by mawvkysc

[Shmoo here]

45 minutes ago, retird said:

But the OP can start in San Diego and end in Fort Lauderdale?   I understood the OP was departing FLL and visiting various ports on the way to Montreal and ending in Boston.   Wouldnt Montreal and the other ports visited qualify as foreign ports under PVSA?

The issue is that a foreign flagged ship cannot transport a passenger from one US port to a DIFFERENT US port without a stop in a distant foreign port.

 

The San Diego/Ft Lauderdale most likely has such a port.  

 

Booking Ft Lauderdale/Montreal B2B with Montreal/Boston does not have a distant foreign port.

 

That said, San Diego to Boston (the cruise the OP was booked on) does satisfy the PVSA.  I don't understand why they thought it didn't.  Only thing I can see is that HAL has issues when such B2B cruises are booked under separate reservations and the computer flagged the Ft Lauderdale/Montreal and Montreal/Boston legs as violating the PVSA.

 

 

[richwmn]

52 minutes ago, retird said:

But the OP can start in San Diego and end in Fort Lauderdale?   I understood the OP was departing FLL and visiting various ports on the way to Montreal and ending in Boston.   Wouldnt Montreal and the other ports visited qualify as foreign ports under PVSA?

Refer to post #12. In order for a foreign flagged cruise ship (all but 1 currently) a ship must stop in a DISTANT foreign port before she can transport a passenger from one US port to another US Port. SD -> FLL, or SD -> FLL -> Montreal -> Boston. Carteghena, Columbia satisfies the requirement for both. No other port visited satisfies the requirement. His itinerary is legal and should have been allowed.

 

edit: posting at same time as @Shmoo here

Edited December 22, 2023 by richwmn

[Blackduck59]

I think it is shameful that HAL won't refund the money. I think the key to success here is to cancel the Montreal to Boston leg. If the San Diego to Fort Lauderdale leg is okay with the PVSA then you're good to go. The Fort Lauderdale to Montreal leg doesn't fall under PVSA because you are starting in the US and ending in Canada. The problem is when you immediately return to a different US port. The vagaries of the PVSA are vast and I'm not sure that even the lawyers know all the rules and exemptions.

[KAKcruiser]

The latest report from the OP was that the money was going to be refunded.

[POA1]

13 hours ago, lakedweller64 said:

On this cruise I board in San Diego stop in a number of foreign ports and end in Boston.Hal states that they consider this one continuous cruise per there email.

Actually, under the law in question, the only "distant foreign ports" are the ABC islands. (The law dates from the late 1800s, if I recall correctly.)

 

You couldn't do FLL to Montreal to Boston because that's a PVSA violation. Your San Diego to FLL leg hits Curaçao, I think. (Aruba or Bonaire would work as well.)

 

Call and ask what the specific violation is. It's possible that your booking is in segments that could look like you are sailing from FLL to BOS. Viewed as a whole, you should be fine if the cruise is like you described.

 

If you are getting off in Fort Lauderdale and boarding another ship, you'd be in violation.

[richwmn]

Since no one has posted the cruises involved, I believe OP is talking about Volendam sailing from San Diego to Fort Lauderdale (Apr 6 - 21), Fort Lauderdale to Montreal (April 21 - May 4) then Montreal to Boston starting May 4.

This itinerary stops in Carteghena, Columbia which qualifies as a Distant Foreign port for the PVSA.

 

[Sebbiesgrammy]

And, once again, a case where a good TA with expertise in cruising, might have saved you a lot of grief and not cost you a dime. Folks, if we don't support these valuable businesses they will disappear and we will be the less well served for it.

[mawvkysc]

OP why did you cancel the FLL to Montreal leg? At first HA only said that they would cancel the last leg. Did they change their story when you called ? Did it have something to do with getting your money back that you had to cancel both? Or just that it worked better for you to not have to get back home from Canada?
 

It shouldn’t matter with the PVSA law, but were you in different cabins for each leg? Maybe somehow that made the computer system not realize you were on cruise starting in San Diego 

[Petronillus]

10 hours ago, Blackduck59 said:

The vagaries of the PVSA are vast and I'm not sure that even the lawyers know all the rules and exemptions.

For me the major takeaway is that the PVSA and the Jones Act are attempts at protectionism (largely futile because they don't have significant benefits to stateside commerce) and horrid examples of featherbedding. Who really benefits from all these contortions?

[broberts]

3 minutes ago, Petronillus said:

Who really benefits from all these contortions?

 

All US registered maritime carriers and employees.

[rubytue]

1 hour ago, Petronillus said:

For me the major takeaway is that the PVSA and the Jones Act are attempts at protectionism (largely futile because they don't have significant benefits to stateside commerce) and horrid examples of featherbedding. Who really benefits from all these contortions?

It was some shipping companies in Seattle wanting a monopoly on the Alaska supply routes, if I recall correctly. 

[Blackduck59]

The only thing that is certain is that it was a protectionist act. In recent years it has forced some ships on the Alaska routes to stop in Victoria. Some of these stops are less than 3 hours from say 8:00 pm to 11:00 pm not exactly giving any passengers a chance to see any of Victoria. Frankly those stops are insulting to one of the most beautiful little cities in all of Canada. 

[mawvkysc]

I hope to get here one day! And see the rest of your beautiful island too @Blackduck59

[OlsSalt]

Contact your local US  Congressional Representative and ask this entire PVSA legislation be reviewed, amended or rescinded in its entirety, since it appears to serve no valid purpose today nor confers any special interest advantage. 

[Blackduck59]

20 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

Contact your local US  Congressional Representative and ask this entire PVSA legislation be reviewed, amended or rescinded in its entirety, since it appears to serve no valid purpose today nor confers any special interest advantage. 

I seem to recall during the pandemic a lot of Americans were going "forget Canada, we don't need them" because our closed ports were affecting their Alaska cruise. Of course we have nothing to do with the protectionist PVSA but somehow we were the villains.

There was and is of course many stakeholders in Victoria who are concerned about losing some or all of our cruise ship visits. I think there are a few ships that stop for 6 to 10 hrs and those are good visit for both the visitors and our local businesses. The 3 hr stop from 9 to midnight? Just stay away.

[Blackduck59]

29 minutes ago, mawvkysc said:

I hope to get here one day! And see the rest of your beautiful island too @Blackduck59

You are most welcome. If you are going to explore the island give yourself at least a week. Even if you want to visit Butchart Gardens and also see Victoria then you need to do at least 2 days. 

[broberts]

37 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

Contact your local US  Congressional Representative and ask this entire PVSA legislation be reviewed, amended or rescinded in its entirety, since it appears to serve no valid purpose today nor confers any special interest advantage. 

 

You do realize that the PVSA affects vastly more maritime business than the cruise industry?

[CruiserBruce]

1 hour ago, OlsSalt said:

Contact your local US  Congressional Representative and ask this entire PVSA legislation be reviewed, amended or rescinded in its entirety, since it appears to serve no valid purpose today nor confers any special interest advantage. 

And then be out of sync with all the other countries that have similar regulations?

[OlsSalt]

47 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

You do realize that the PVSA affects vastly more maritime business than the cruise industry?

 

Amendments seem proper, since it now requires silly games to be played to get around hair-splitting requirements. ABC is a "foreign stop" but Barbados is not? Time to take a good look behind the curtain, to see what demands this vintage legislation be upheld in its resolute entirety.

[Blackduck59]

As someone else pointed out the PVSA doesn't just affect cruise ships. It's the law that ensures ferries operating in the US are made in the US, are crewed by American crews and are serviced in American ship yards.

British Columbia operates one of the largest passenger ferry lines in the world. For a very long time all the ships were built in Canadian shipyards, mostly in BC. then there were several poor business decisions made. Through political interference a class of ship wholly unsuitable for the job were built and they were a dismal failure and the ships were sold at a loss of over $400,000,000.00 CDN, Since that debacle they have had new ships built overseas and those ships just represent many millions of Canadian Dollars going elsewhere instead of giving jobs to British Columbians. Don't be so quick to dismiss the PVSA as detrimental to US interests, it's not.

Edited December 23, 2023 by Blackduck59
typo

[lakedweller64]

as a new update after we told we were in violation of the PVSA and had to cancel the Montreal to Boston cruise.which we did with a full refund.Today Hal called said they were wrong so they rebooked our canceled cruise.It seems they have hired a lot of new people that didn’t understand about the PVSA act.By stopping in carteghena that met the requirements.Thanks for all your help 

[oakridger]

@lakedweller64 That's fantastic!  Thank you so much for letting us know that HAL corrected their mistake.  

 

Have a great trip!

 

~Nancy

[richwmn]

Whoever said you were out of compliance didn't look back far enough. Finally, someone did. Glad you will be joining us.

(Sent from Volendam)

 

[Shmoo here]

23 minutes ago, lakedweller64 said:

as a new update after we told we were in violation of the PVSA and had to cancel the Montreal to Boston cruise.which we did with a full refund.Today Hal called said they were wrong so they rebooked our canceled cruise.It seems they have hired a lot of new people that didn’t understand about the PVSA act.By stopping in carteghena that met the requirements.Thanks for all your help 

Terrific!