Maleth confirms end of P&O partnership

[carlanthony24]

2 minutes ago, Presto2 said:

Everyone is different and may be worried or not bothered for different reasons. 

Of course. I think people fail to see the bigger picture. Especially on other sites that regardless what company they give you that can always change.

[Presto2]

3 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

Of course. I think people fail to see the bigger picture. Especially on other sites that regardless what company they give you that can always change.

I think most people want to book and then relax and look forward to what they have booked. Sudden changes cause uncertainty and must cause anxiety. Hoping it all works out for everyone

[carlanthony24]

Just now, Presto2 said:

I think most people want to book and then relax and look forward to what they have booked. Sudden changes cause uncertainty and must cause anxiety. Hoping it all works out for everyone

It can but then people be like oh why did P&O not tell us the plane was going to be changed 24hrs before. P&O should be telling us. In hindsight it does not work like that.

[Presto2]

4 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

It can but then people be like oh why did P&O not tell us the plane was going to be changed 24hrs before. P&O should be telling us. In hindsight it does not work like that.

But to be fair in many many flights for land and cruise holidays with PO and other we've never known a major change... like a carrier...

You have to admit it isn't usual? 

[carlanthony24]

7 minutes ago, Presto2 said:

But to be fair in many many flights for land and cruise holidays with PO and other we've never known a major change... like a carrier...

You have to admit it isn't usual? 

Not usual no. When Thomas Cook went bust I believe all passengers were moved to TUI I think. Much easier back then since the C was around. The UK really does not have much of a long haul charter market. Personally I would love to see Jet2 take ownership of some long haul flights and then things may improve but only really having TUI who are prepared to offer services for the cruise market while also undertaking the cruises for themselves same with Virgin it was bound to happen eventually. 

 

Who knows maybe next year when flights start being released. All done under TUI flights but being sub contracted a Maleth Airlines. 

[Presto2]

2 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

Not usual no. When Thomas Cook went bust I believe all passengers were moved to TUI I think. Much easier back then since the C was around. The UK really does not have much of a long haul charter market. Personally I would love to see Jet2 take ownership of some long haul flights and then things may improve but only really having TUI who are prepared to offer services for the cruise market while also undertaking the cruises for themselves same with Virgin it was bound to happen eventually. 

 

Who knows maybe next year when flights start being released. All done under TUI flights but being sub contracted a Maleth Airlines. 

Am a massive Jet2 fan so totally agree

[daiB]

On another forum. It has been said that TUI cannot provide the aircraft for the flights. Is it not up to TUI to charter a replacement as they are the ones with the contract for these flights. Should it not be TUI everyone is having a go at. Or is it too easy to just blame P&O.

 

I do wish people would wait for the facts before blasting away at P&O.

[terrierjohn]

9 minutes ago, daiB said:

On another forum. It has been said that TUI cannot provide the aircraft for the flights. Is it not up to TUI to charter a replacement as they are the ones with the contract for these flights. Should it not be TUI everyone is having a go at. Or is it too easy to just blame P&O.

 

I do wish people would wait for the facts before blasting away at P&O.

I doubt Carnival would let TUI off the hook, if they had a water tight contract for TUI to provide the charter aircraft. So presumably any default by TUI has pushed the onus back on P&O to find alternatives.

[daiB]

2 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I doubt Carnival would let TUI off the hook, if they had a water tight contract for TUI to provide the charter aircraft. So presumably any default by TUI has pushed the onus back on P&O to find alternatives.

Who says P&O found the alternative airline.

[carlanthony24]

Rumour G-ECLF ex Ethiad A340 could be used. 

[Interestedcruisefan]

18 hours ago, Sooty04 said:

We decided on a P&O cruise to the Caribbean for Christmas and New Year 2023/24 and we’re told that our flight details would follow in due course.  When we did our due diligence checks it was stated that P&O used TUI or BA flying out of London.  We have just received an E-mail to say that P&O were in the final stages of securing a Malta charter company called Maleth Aero.  To say we are extremely unhappy and concerned is an understatement.  Having checked on the airline they currently have seven aircraft and another on order.  In the past four years they have had three air incidents, an engine shut down in flight, an Oceanic Contingency and problems with air speed indicators.  There is one review giving them 3.5 out of five and there are reviews from staff stating how unhappy they are.  That coupled with what Minsterman stated we really feel like cancelling the holiday.

I wouldn't worry about the air incidents

 

All the airlines have them

 

TUI officially have a recent "crash" in their incidents

 

When in March 2022 the tail of one of their planes hit the ground on takeoff from Manchester

 

Nobody was hurt 

 

This was put down to an "inexperienced co-pilot"

 

Imagine if you just read about that on Maleth Aero? How you would feel?

 

(I love dreamliners myself. Doesn't look  like we will get those this year to Caribbean then? Will look at it as a bonus if we do. We are flying from Manchester in February)

 

We've got new laptops each with good batteries. Will no doubt do our vat return on board again to pass a few hours. 

 

And make sure we have plenty of entertainment loaded on them and our phones in case theres nothing on board

 

Forewarned is forearmed

 

Thanks to the OP for highlighting this

Edited September 20, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[Snow Hill]

11 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

Yes, we are fine so should you be.  I called flights this afternoon just in case, they confirmed flights if shown are allocated. Obviously subject to TUI turning up - they didn't last year for some flights sending the strange Swedish plane.  

 

I've noticed a lot of the cruises only had Manchester flights available the further into the season you go but suddenly there is some London availability appeared.

 

It occurred to me too - although I haven't checked - are the guys with the new airline on Arvia as she will need far more planes than Britannia?

 

Lots of chat on the P&O facebook according to my OH apparently and quite a number saying they've cancelled or going to.  

I have seen those comments attached to a GB post, many saying bet he would be expected to fly with a cheapskate airline.

 

P&O keeping pushing it will be an equivalent experience, but with no IFE, premium economy or extra legroom many saying P&O have an odd definition of equivalent. 
 

Another question that needs asking is that did TUI take on the contract knowing they couldn’t fulfil the  provision of long haul flights from their own fleet? 

[Pasty feet]

14 hours ago, carlanthony24 said:

Yes but I would guess somewhere in the T&CS they can be sub contracted which is often the case when companies don’t have enough aircrafts. 3 incidents in the last 4 years is hardly an issue. When you have the likes of BA yes more aircrafts but have way more problems on an aircraft that is barely 10years old for instance. 
 

one incident I can see for Maleth Aero unreliable airspeed while departing the airline reported they impacted insects which caused the issue. So that’s nothing they can avoid. If the airline was that bad the UK government would have banned them. 

 

[Pasty feet]

We are cancelling, simple as that 

[Pasty feet]

4 minutes ago, Pasty feet said:

We are cancelling, simple as that 

We were already unhappy with P & O. Iona to Norway was awful, but this was already booked.  We were led to believe we were flying Dreamliner or Virgin in premium when we booked whilst on Arvia.  Holiday substantially different and logistics are P & O’s problem not ours. Will use Cunard. 

[Pasty feet]

1 minute ago, Pasty feet said:

We were already unhappy with P & O. Iona to Norway was awful, but this was already booked.  We were led to believe we were flying Dreamliner or Virgin in premium when we booked whilst on Arvia.  Holiday substantially different and logistics are P & O’s problem not ours. Will use Cunard as previously. 

[Pasty feet]

2 minutes ago, Pasty feet said:

 

[paulatsea]

5 minutes ago, Pasty feet said:

We were already unhappy with P & O. Iona to Norway was awful, but this was already booked.  We were led to believe we were flying Dreamliner or Virgin in premium when we booked whilst on Arvia.  Holiday substantially different and logistics are P & O’s problem not ours. Will use Cunard. 

I don’t blame you - for me long haul needs a good modern aircraft with modern facilities otherwise it’s a very uncomfortable experience.

We had a TUI Dreamliner replaced with a much older aircraft flying back from Jamaica.

Terrible flight- this was on a Thomson cruise years ago.

[Pippawhipper1]

I think this is disgusting by P&o as people have said it is a great lovely holiday only to be given an old plane with no entertainment and premium seats for a flight over eight hours usually up to four hours yes but not eight

Another cost cutting from P&o how many more before people are going to stop I don't think I will be booking again and I've been on 22 cruises it's just money pinching gone to far and I've noticed it over the years and this is the final nail in the coffin for P&o

As for everybody complaining and I know there is so many on about this but if the deal is done I can't see P&o changing their  mind if the contract has signed 

[Pasty feet]

1 minute ago, paulatsea said:

I don’t blame you - for me long haul needs a good modern aircraft with modern facilities otherwise it’s a very uncomfortable experience.

We had a TUI Dreamliner replaced with a much older aircraft flying back from Jamaica.

Terrible flight- this was on a Thomson cruise years ago.

Yes, the last time we did P& O to the Caribbean it was Thomas Cook and dreadful. Will now do QM and sail which we did before. Had looked forward to flying with Virgin and Dreamliner sounded fun. Disappointed, but relieved in a way. 

[Interestedcruisefan]

https://travelexception.com/maleth-aero-cabin-comfort-service-and-amenities/

 

Here's a through review of Maleth Aero from this month?

 

Only mentions 3 Airbus in the fleet

 

All of which have 2 classes on board

 

Economy and Business Class

Edited September 20, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[Pippawhipper1]

18 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

Try this email address. At least two others have raised points via it in the past few weeks  and had fairly prompt replies/answers.

 

Executive.Correspondence@carnivalukgroup.com

I have just sent a email to this doesn't affect me this time but I won't be booking if I can't be guaranteed dreamliner or equivalent penny pinching too far I've cruised 22 times if not more but it will be my last if nothing changes

[Megabear2]

20 minutes ago, Snow Hill said:

I have seen those comments attached to a GB post, many saying bet he would be expected to fly with a cheapskate airline.

 

P&O keeping pushing it will be an equivalent experience, but with no IFE, premium economy or extra legroom many saying P&O have an odd definition of equivalent. 
 

Another question that needs asking is that did TUI take on the contract knowing they couldn’t fulfil the  provision of long haul flights from their own fleet? 

I think we have a planning error tbh.  Rewind to 2019 we had Britannia maximum 3600 odd passengers and Azura 3100 so a total 6700 or thereabouts to move per voyage so around 3,400 each day. In 2021 there was just Britannia at half capacity so the planes, although far less in numbers, have a very low passenger count to move.  Last year we had the arrival of Arvia so we needed to move 5200 passengers as opposed to Azura's 3100, an increase of 2100 passengers per cruise.  Therefore our plane capacity requirement is vastly increased - at 300 persons per plane we need 7 more of them.  That's a pretty high increase at a time when many airlines have no spare capacity or slack available.

 

I can see this "problem" next year too for the same reason, the planners of cruises are working 3 years in advance and had no crystal ball to tell them TUI and the other mainstream airlines would have had to slash their plane numbers so drastically.  We have ships to fill with the promise of an included flight. Fares are worked out based on a charter, P&O have to make a profit for each  "bum on the seat", so to does the airline.  So TUI's number crunchers look at available aircraft and say if we use them to fly TUI package holidaymakers or cruisers down to Barbados we get all the money and can put up our prices if demand is high.  If however we charter our plane to such and such we have to set a contract price, no flexibility to mark up to make more money if we can.  It would be very bad business to do that so clearly they'll go with option 1.

 

Personally I think we will have to look at a new scenario on these cruises in the future.  If I choose a fly cruise with any other line except notably P&O and Marella, I have to pay for my flight on top, be it through the cruise line or independently.  If I use the first route I pay the market price of what's available at the time of booking (one or two notable exceptions including Cunard) so late booking of my flight means a higher fare as the cruise line is shopping in the same place I would.  

 

Worldwide plane fares have increased by around 60% on some routes so without the charter my cruise gets far more expensive - in March 2019 my flight to Hong Kong to join QM2 cost £399 looking at doing it in 2024  its nearly £900.  

 

Maybe going forward the planners could look at a bigger plane for Arvia cruises and hire a couple of A380 aircraft for the season using Manchester, Birmingham and London airports. Grantley Adams Airport in Barbados is a very far seeing one.  It spent a very large amount of money in 2003 to be able to accept A380 planes and they are extremely capable of handling them. BA have started to use some of their A380s on popular tourist routes this summer and a large number of A380s are currently residing out in the desert awaiting operators to lease them so it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

 

 

[Megabear2]

6 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

https://travelexception.com/maleth-aero-cabin-comfort-service-and-amenities/

 

Here's a through review of Maleth Aero from this month?

 

Only mentions 3 Airbus in the fleet

 

All of which have 2 classes on board

 

Economy and Business Class

The others are currently stored expected into service October.  Yesterday one was on ground Manchester, one in the air Valencia, one not on radar rest in storage.

[Megabear2]

Thanks to all who have posted.  Out of interest I asked which ship the affected passengers are/were sailing on - my gut says Arvia - could I kindly ask if people would mind confirming this please?  I know ICF is definitely on Arvia for instance but no idea on the other folks plans.