Maleth confirms end of P&O partnership

[Neecy1]

Weve just upgraded to PE this week for Brittania repositioning TA next March. Took ages to do. In the end the nice chap at p&o had to ring us back much later when he had liaised with the flights team. Not sure if connected to this? I hope we're still on the dreamliner and not an old plane. I'm not a great flier.

[Neecy1]

And DH in excess of 6 foot so gets uncomfortable on long haul. 

[Pasty feet]

19 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Not when it comes to flights (other than upgrading to premium economy?)

 

Nor the restaurants you dine  in or the food you eat or the bars you drink in or entertainment you watch?

 

Only difference in cost is the cabin you choose as far as I know?

 

To put it more clearly. Cost relates to value for money ie are you pleased with what you receive? 

[Pasty feet]

1 minute ago, CarlaMarie said:

 

Nobody is looking down on the bigger cruise ships nor the people who sail on them. These are simply observations that have been made by passengers who have sailed on them. It is true that they do "pile them high". You cannot get away from the fact that there is a different type of passenger on board nowadays either, attracted by very good prices that can be had (again linked to the vast amount of cabins needed to be filled), influencers, advertising etc...  How long that lasts will be interesting to see. 

 

Likewise, you can't call out Cunard for being boring and offering poorer ships, nor do they attract passengers who don't appreciate what is onboard. I am fairly young, and to me I wouldn't class Cunard and its passengers as being like that. The new Queen Anne looks like she will be magnificent.

 

Sailing on any ship is about far more than dining and activities.

Well said, you put it very well thanks

[Interestedcruisefan]

13 minutes ago, Pasty feet said:

To put it more clearly. Cost relates to value for money ie are you pleased with what you receive? 

Delighted with what  I receive

 

Impossible for me to do 2 weeks in the Caribbean with flights for anywhere near the value of Arvia in winter

 

I've just paid 905 pounds to fly from Birmingham to Jamaica in October for a week. Return transfers to resort costing 200 pounds each on top. Economy 

 

So 1105 pounds each just to fly in and out

 

Whereas Arvia flying from Manchester 2 weeks including transfers in Barbados February just cost me 1314 pounds each

 

 

[Pasty feet]

4 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Of course.  Anyway, we are cancelling as the flight amendment doesn’t work for us in light of all the foregoing. Wishing everyone a wonderful time. 

[Interestedcruisefan]

1 minute ago, Megabear2 said:

I've no idea what negative post I'm supposed to have made but never mind.  I've never made a secret of my dislike of Arvia but in fairness I have said my experience is not necessarily the norm. 

 

 Yes,  it would be annoying but nowhere in our bookings does it say who we will be flying with and legally we would have no rights about which plane is provided. Basically you accept what's offered - apparently in case of PE a refund of your money plus OBC - or cancel presumably losing your deposit.  

 

It's not negative to say this, sadly its reality.

 

 

 

 

I did assume that any cancellation would be at the passenger loss if any deposit paid etc

 

So many ts and cs are always in holiday providers favour for stuff like this

[Megabear2]

1 minute ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

I did assume that any cancellation would be at the passenger loss if any deposit paid etc

 

So many ts and cs are always in holiday providers favour for stuff like this

I'm only assuming, not seen it confirmed.  However reading in depth the T&Cs it would not from what I can see be a major change allowing free cancellation.  Basically you are sold a cruise with a flight and there is no promise of who that flight will be provided by or how you will get to your destination airport.  In other words P&O make a reservation for you on a flight of their choice and you have contractually accepted that.  There isn't even any promise it will be a direct flight, those 757s I mentioned earlier had to have certain weather conditions to make a transatlantic non stop.  I've had at least two unscheduled stops at Gandar on a Thomas Cook flight and one Airtransat plane was actually running out of fuel on the way to Toromto.

 

 

[jeanlyon]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

I'm only assuming, not seen it confirmed.  However reading in depth the T&Cs it would not from what I can see be a major change allowing free cancellation.  Basically you are sold a cruise with a flight and there is no promise of who that flight will be provided by or how you will get to your destination airport.  In other words P&O make a reservation for you on a flight of their choice and you have contractually accepted that.  There isn't even any promise it will be a direct flight, those 757s I mentioned earlier had to have certain weather conditions to make a transatlantic non stop.  I've had at least two unscheduled stops at Gandar on a Thomas Cook flight and one Airtransat plane was actually running out of fuel on the way to Toromto.

 

 

Agree, cancellation will be customer's loss.  Nowhere would it have said which airline they would be flying with.  It seems a major fuss about very little to me.

[zap99]

18 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Agree, cancellation will be customer's loss.  Nowhere would it have said which airline they would be flying with.  It seems a major fuss about very little to me.

We will only fly long haul PE. If we can't fly PE+,we don't go. Agreed P&O could provide a plane without PE and just refund the extra cost. We won't take that risk, so have cancelled before final payment date.

[Bill Y]

5 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

I think we have a planning error tbh.  Rewind to 2019 we had Britannia maximum 3600 odd passengers and Azura 3100 so a total 6700 or thereabouts to move per voyage so around 3,400 each day. In 2021 there was just Britannia at half capacity so the planes, although far less in numbers, have a very low passenger count to move.  Last year we had the arrival of Arvia so we needed to move 5200 passengers as opposed to Azura's 3100, an increase of 2100 passengers per cruise.  Therefore our plane capacity requirement is vastly increased - at 300 persons per plane we need 7 more of them.  That's a pretty high increase at a time when many airlines have no spare capacity or slack available.

 

I can see this "problem" next year too for the same reason, the planners of cruises are working 3 years in advance and had no crystal ball to tell them TUI and the other mainstream airlines would have had to slash their plane numbers so drastically.  We have ships to fill with the promise of an included flight. Fares are worked out based on a charter, P&O have to make a profit for each  "bum on the seat", so to does the airline.  So TUI's number crunchers look at available aircraft and say if we use them to fly TUI package holidaymakers or cruisers down to Barbados we get all the money and can put up our prices if demand is high.  If however we charter our plane to such and such we have to set a contract price, no flexibility to mark up to make more money if we can.  It would be very bad business to do that so clearly they'll go with option 1.

 

Personally I think we will have to look at a new scenario on these cruises in the future.  If I choose a fly cruise with any other line except notably P&O and Marella, I have to pay for my flight on top, be it through the cruise line or independently.  If I use the first route I pay the market price of what's available at the time of booking (one or two notable exceptions including Cunard) so late booking of my flight means a higher fare as the cruise line is shopping in the same place I would.  

 

Worldwide plane fares have increased by around 60% on some routes so without the charter my cruise gets far more expensive - in March 2019 my flight to Hong Kong to join QM2 cost £399 looking at doing it in 2024  its nearly £900.  

 

Maybe going forward the planners could look at a bigger plane for Arvia cruises and hire a couple of A380 aircraft for the season using Manchester, Birmingham and London airports. Grantley Adams Airport in Barbados is a very far seeing one.  It spent a very large amount of money in 2003 to be able to accept A380 planes and they are extremely capable of handling them. BA have started to use some of their A380s on popular tourist routes this summer and a large number of A380s are currently residing out in the desert awaiting operators to lease them so it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

 

 

A very informative analysis. Presumably P&O when they commissioned the mega monsters assumed that airline capacity would continue to grow exponentially and the reduction in capacity during lockdown was inconceivable.  Surprised that there are A380s in the desert. I thought the deserts were just for old bangers that the first wold airlines had retried. The question is would the cost of de-mothballing and crewing up be viable for an airline when all P&O can commit to is a few days a week for the Caribbean season

[Megabear2]

5 minutes ago, Bill Y said:

A very informative analysis. Presumably P&O when they commissioned the mega monsters assumed that airline capacity would continue to grow exponentially and the reduction in capacity during lockdown was inconceivable.  Surprised that there are A380s in the desert. I thought the deserts were just for old bangers that the first wold airlines had retried. The question is would the cost of de-mothballing and crewing up be viable for an airline when all P&O can commit to is a few days a week for the Caribbean season

You may find this interesting.  Sadly A380 production line shut down and no more will be built.  Having flown on several of these under BA and Emirates I'd say they are ideal for bulk flights such as the P&O charters.  Certainly BA have used theirs a lot this year to assist with the popular European holiday destinations. It's a mute point if they'd want to lease any for charter, but they most certainly are there if they could be persuaded.  Also P&O's use would be winter and assumedly the need to boost European holiday destination flights will be less.

 

https://simpleflying.com/almost-half-airbus-a380s-stored-scrapped-maintenance/

 

[carlanthony24]

20 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

You may find this interesting.  Sadly A380 production line shut down and no more will be built.  Having flown on several of these under BA and Emirates I'd say they are ideal for bulk flights such as the P&O charters.  Certainly BA have used theirs a lot this year to assist with the popular European holiday destinations. It's a mute point if they'd want to lease any for charter, but they most certainly are there if they could be persuaded.  Also P&O's use would be winter and assumedly the need to boost European holiday destination flights will be less.

 

https://simpleflying.com/almost-half-airbus-a380s-stored-scrapped-maintenance/

 

Global Airlines comes to mind if they can ever get a licence and off the ground

Edited September 20, 2023 by carlanthony24

[Megabear2]

5 hours ago, Neecy1 said:

Weve just upgraded to PE this week for Brittania repositioning TA next March. Took ages to do. In the end the nice chap at p&o had to ring us back much later when he had liaised with the flights team. Not sure if connected to this? I hope we're still on the dreamliner and not an old plane. I'm not a great flier.

A330 are actually lovely aircraft so really nothing to worry about there.  Reading into the history of these aircraft most have belonged to Middle Eastern airlines and these have been known for years to be some of the finest airlines in the world.  The A340 mentioned by someone previously belonged to Virgin Atlantic, an airline that has one of the best safety records in the world.

 

As I am constantly saying when people call a cruise ship old it's not age that is important it's maintenance and repair.  Many on here say how good Jet2 is - they aren't easily available down south apart from Stansted so I've never had the pleasure - but they actually have a fairly elderly fleet.  Age really shouldn't be an issue.

[Megabear2]

https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/maltese-carrier-to-run-po-cruises-caribbean-charter-flights

 

Well it's official then.  Two aircraft.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Megabear2

[Pasty feet]

4 hours ago, Pasty feet said:

Well, sun beds were impossible to find. We had plenty of room to relax on the balcony.  We loved being there.  Yes, we emerged to enjoy the ship, but loved our retreat. 

Have now cancelled and lost deposit which am perfectly happy about. I think the which  airline bit was a little exaggerated, but small print applies as long as a flight is provided, no problem. For information to anyone considering the same action, I was told they could possibly arrange Virgin flights or we could book a different cruise with P & O and some people may choose to do this. I am a poor flier and require the reassurance and comfort of a premium seat. In flight entertainment does not matter at all but flying with an airline I have heard of certainly does, to me anyway. Best wishes to all. 

[JeanieC,Aston]

TUI has really struggled for aircraft from Manchester this summer.

Hence offering EasyJet flights on lots of summer package holidays.

They have used x3 leasing companies this year……

GetJet,,,,,Smart Lynx and Privilege Style,,,I believe the laters aircraft are pre Soviet models.😏

[Bill Y]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

You may find this interesting.  Sadly A380 production line shut down and no more will be built.  Having flown on several of these under BA and Emirates I'd say they are ideal for bulk flights such as the P&O charters.  Certainly BA have used theirs a lot this year to assist with the popular European holiday destinations. It's a mute point if they'd want to lease any for charter, but they most certainly are there if they could be persuaded.  Also P&O's use would be winter and assumedly the need to boost European holiday destination flights will be less.

 

https://simpleflying.com/almost-half-airbus-a380s-stored-scrapped-maintenance/

 

Again very informative, I did not realise that the A380 had been around for so long. It’s still a short production run compared to the 747 for something that was supposed to be the future. A serious bit of kit to be disposed of.

[Bill Y]

46 minutes ago, Pasty feet said:

Have now cancelled and lost deposit which am perfectly happy about. I think the which  airline bit was a little exaggerated, but small print applies as long as a flight is provided, no problem. For information to anyone considering the same action, I was told they could possibly arrange Virgin flights or we could book a different cruise with P & O and some people may choose to do this. I am a poor flier and require the reassurance and comfort of a premium seat. In flight entertainment does not matter at all but flying with an airline I have heard of certainly does, to me anyway. Best wishes to all. 

Yes P&O may be able to arrange alternative flights. Some years ago in the Caribbean we had lunch with a couple who could not get PE on the charter and expressed their dissatisfaction to P&O who then booked them on BA presumably at a cost, they had a terrible ordeal at the airport terminal with all the passengers from the scheduled flights flooding in. I don’t think that they were looking forward to the return ordeal, they were quite jealous of us on the charter.

[Interestedcruisefan]

2 hours ago, zap99 said:

We will only fly long haul PE. If we can't fly PE+,we don't go. Agreed P&O could provide a plane without PE and just refund the extra cost. We won't take that risk, so have cancelled before final payment date.

Whats premium economy?

 

More legroom?

 

Separate queue for check in?

 

Faster boarding?

 

Anything else ?

[Pasty feet]

3 minutes ago, Bill Y said:

Yes P&O may be able to arrange alternative flights. Some years ago in the Caribbean we had lunch with a couple who could not get PE on the charter and expressed their dissatisfaction to P&O who then booked them on BA presumably at a cost, they had a terrible ordeal at the airport terminal with all the passengers from the scheduled flights flooding in. I don’t think that they were looking forward to the return ordeal, they were quite jealous of us on the charter.

Yes indeed, it’s all rather a lottery ha ha. Glad to be able to seek an alternative and best wishes for your cruise. 

[Interestedcruisefan]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/maltese-carrier-to-run-po-cruises-caribbean-charter-flights

 

Well it's official then.  Two aircraft.

"Passengers will receive an enhanced in-flight meal service including bonded baggage"

 

What does bonded baggage taste like?

 

Dont think I've ever eaten that before!!

[CarlaMarie]

26 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Whats premium economy?

 

More legroom?

 

Separate queue for check in?

 

Faster boarding?

 

Anything else ?

 

It is the passengers preferred choice of travel. In many cases it is the only way a passenger feels comfortable travelling via a plane. 

[carlanthony24]

30 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Whats premium economy?

 

More legroom?

 

Separate queue for check in?

 

Faster boarding?

 

Anything else ?

Extra legroom, extra baggage allowance, board first and leave the aircraft first, Separate queue for check in, free wine/drinks. 3-4 course meal none of the cutlery is plastic and the plates/bowls all glass. We were given hot towels a couple of times. Might be some things I am missing but its worth it.

[zap99]

57 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Whats premium economy?

 

More legroom?

 

Separate queue for check in?

 

Faster boarding?

 

Anything else ?

Drinks. Extra width. As you are at the front, you reach Barbados first. Now TUI use a dreamliner it's not so much better than economy  but we always select the 2 seats in the 2-3-2 configuration. This allows a bit of sleep on the return flight.

Edited September 20, 2023 by zap99