Oceania Decline

[FetaCheese]

2 hours ago, Vineyard View said:

Thank you FetaCheese. I looked at our travel time of Apr/May 2025 and really didn’t see anything other than they have been offering for years. I will take a second look. After sailing on SB I am not really sure that they are worth paying more for though. We don’t take ship excursions, so that is not the draw for us that it is for many in paying extra. 

After reading more about O vs V vs SB,  I would like to experience the SB product.  Have looked a little, but fares do seem to be quite high.  Will have to do a thorough side by side cost analysis of inclusions, to see how each compares to the others.

 

Have taken 3 VO cruises, with another soon upcoming.  Have taken mostly all included shorex.  Some terrific, others, not so.  With V, included shorex are but 1 of many other reasons we value on their ships.  We, so far, have enjoyed the total experience.

 

If you've not checked the "Post Viking Promos" topic on the V board, one will learn of sales, and new itins.  They are mostly targeted emails, but codes will work for all pax.  All pax do not receive all sale emails.

Edited March 6 by FetaCheese
Addl info

[Vineyard View]

Thank you again. I still receive at lot of VO promotion emails. I have done side quite a few side by side. Adding in all costs to arrive at a total cost pp/pd. It was pretty eye opening. Again, I will admit that of having an included excursion in every port is utilized and important, that is not calculated in my totals, as we do not value ship excursions. That said, analyzing total costs between the three lines was rather eye opening for me. We always upgrade during package so not everyone does that, and we always book balconies, whereas some people are good with OV. So my total may be different from other totals based on preferences. 
I looked earlier after reading your previous post at the British isles between the three. Based on our preferences SB won on Pp/pd, but that does not include what private excursion costs vs our DIY days that we may incur. I did another in the Mediterranean. Viking was most expensive, and SB was a little over $50 pp/pd over O before the $300 excursion credit. So it is indeed interesting. It honestly often can come down to the best itinerary.  I do thank you for all of your VO tips. I would happily sail on them again if it aligned up. 

Edited March 6 by Vineyard View

[Mareblu]

32 minutes ago, Vineyard View said:

Thank you again. I still receive at lot of VO promotion emails. I have done side quite a few side by side. Adding in all costs to arrive at a total cost pp/pd. It was pretty eye opening. Again, I will admit that of having an included excursion in every port is utilized and important, that is not calculated in my totals, as we do not value ship excursions. That said, analyzing total costs between the three lines was rather eye opening for me. We always upgrade during package so not everyone does that, and we always book balconies, whereas some people are good with OV. So my total may be different from other totals based on preferences. 
I looked earlier after reading your previous post at the British isles between the three. Based on our preferences SB won on Pp/pd, but that does not include what private excursion costs vs our DIY days that we may incur. I did another in the Mediterranean. Viking was most expensive, and SB was a little over $50 pp/pd over O before the $300 excursion credit. So it is indeed interesting. It honestly often can come down to the best itinerary.  I do thank you for all of your VO tips. I would happily sail on them again if it aligned up. 

We have only sailed with Viking once, in 2019, just before Planet Covid.  It was, like our Seabourn cruise I mentioned, a b2b, from Vancouver to Hong Kong.  Wonderful itinerary, including Alaska, the Russian Far East, which is, sadly, no longer available to cruisers, and an extensive Japanese exploration.  The vessel, Orion, was magnificent.  We love the simplistic elegance and functionality of Scandinavian design, and the staff were wonderful.  Our only problem, and it was a large problem, was the food.  The cuisine was constantly over salted, and not at all well presented.   I season all our food, so it wasn't that we don't like salt.  Sometimes it was so salty, it was inedible.  Five weeks of that cuisine was enough for us.  We and every fellow passenger we chatted to had swollen feet.  The only offerings I really enjoyed were the steak (really delicious) and the Alaskan king crab served every evening in the buffet.  We're usually not buffet dwellers, preferring to sit down in the dining venues, but we soon found ourselves heading regularly to the buffet.  Unlike Oceania, Seabourn, Cunard, Silversea, etc., the main dining room on Viking is not what I'd describe as elegant, so not especially enticing, even forgetting the food.  It's more like a glorified cafe.  It's such a shame, because there was so much we did like about Viking, but I can't see us returning.

[Vineyard View]

Interesting Mareblu. I do not doubt that occurred with the food, but I will say on the voyages we had (our last one was late 2019), we did not have an overly salted cuisine. It was never brought up by others nor between us. That isn’t to say that your chef on board did not do this. I also haven’t read of this problem in an amount that I remember on V threads. Too bad that happened. 
I thoroughly agree with your assessment of their MDR. If that occurred with our cruise, I would likely feel as you do. 

[osandomir]

1 hour ago, Mareblu said:

We have only sailed with Viking once, in 2019, just before Planet Covid.  It was, like our Seabourn cruise I mentioned, a b2b, from Vancouver to Hong Kong.  Wonderful itinerary, including Alaska, the Russian Far East, which is, sadly, no longer available to cruisers, and an extensive Japanese exploration.  The vessel, Orion, was magnificent.  We love the simplistic elegance and functionality of Scandinavian design, and the staff were wonderful.  Our only problem, and it was a large problem, was the food.  The cuisine was constantly over salted, and not at all well presented.   I season all our food, so it wasn't that we don't like salt.  Sometimes it was so salty, it was inedible.  Five weeks of that cuisine was enough for us.  We and every fellow passenger we chatted to had swollen feet.  The only offerings I really enjoyed were the steak (really delicious) and the Alaskan king crab served every evening in the buffet.  We're usually not buffet dwellers, preferring to sit down in the dining venues, but we soon found ourselves heading regularly to the buffet.  Unlike Oceania, Seabourn, Cunard, Silversea, etc., the main dining room on Viking is not what I'd describe as elegant, so not especially enticing, even forgetting the food.  It's more like a glorified cafe.  It's such a shame, because there was so much we did like about Viking, but I can't see us returning.

We haven’t ever cruised on Viking, so I can’t comment there. But I’m curious why had you suffer from that salty food for so long. Did you try to talk to the chef? If so, did it make a difference or there was no chance for improvement.

[Mareblu]

52 minutes ago, osandomir said:

We haven’t ever cruised on Viking, so I can’t comment there. But I’m curious why had you suffer from that salty food for so long. Did you try to talk to the chef? If so, did it make a difference or there was no chance for improvement.

Yes, we spoke to the CD (who was previously CD on a previous O Nautica cruise), reception, and our butler.  Many others had also complained.  You can guess the general response:  “your concerns will be noted but no-one else has complained”, or as reception said, “there is no record of other complaints”.  I think that angered me more than the below-par cuisine.

[Mareblu]

1 hour ago, Vineyard View said:

Interesting Mareblu. I do not doubt that occurred with the food, but I will say on the voyages we had (our last one was late 2019), we did not have an overly salted cuisine. It was never brought up by others nor between us. That isn’t to say that your chef on board did not do this. I also haven’t read of this problem in an amount that I remember on V threads. Too bad that happened. 
I thoroughly agree with your assessment of their MDR. If that occurred with our cruise, I would likely feel as you do. 

Ours was Sept 2019.  Were you on Orion?  If so, and your cruise was after ours, then maybe they reduced the salt😂

[osandomir]

6 minutes ago, Mareblu said:

Yes, we spoke to the CD (who was previously CD on a previous O Nautica cruise), reception, and our butler.  Many others had also complained.  You can guess the general response:  “your concerns will be noted but no-one else has complained”, or as reception said, “there is no record of other complaints”.  I think that angered me more than the below-par cuisine.

I’d ask to talk to the chef directly. It looks like your complains were not communicated to the kitchen at all. I’m not sure about Viking, but on Oceania when I had a problem with the food a quick talk to the chef was enough and all my food was served to my liking after that.

[shepherd really]

On 3/4/2024 at 12:30 PM, Vineyard View said:

AK1004, I don’t know how to respond. I, and many others, have been reading the same. O cancels more and changes more. Is it reported more because of the insufficient manner in which O seems to handle these disruptions? IDK. It might contribute some, but I think that if it were such an apparent pattern on other lines, it would be a point of contention on those lines as well. 

The plural of anecdote is not data 

[Harters]

There's also a couple of luxury trains in South Africa which we looked at including on our last trip. I'm sure it would be a lovely experience but we simply werent in a position to afford it. 

[QuestionEverything]

17 hours ago, ORV said:

If you are planning on Amtrak prepare to be disappointed. We traveled from Chicago to New Orleans about 25 years ago and it was great. We were in their best sleeper car and they actually had fantastic food prepared on the train by a chef. Fastforward to a 2019 or so and we did the Empire Builder from Chicago to Seattle with a stop in Glacier National park in Montana. Rooms were dirty, dining room had stuff piled up in the corner. Food was pre-prepared box lunches and dinners like you get in Coach on airlines. Truly bad. Other than our room attendant most of the workers were sub par. The best part of the trip was Chicago beforehand, the two days at Glacier, and Seattle, and it sure ain't what it used to be. We were also in the best sleeper car they offer on this trip also. 

OV, thanks so much for this great post, remembering the good old days of train travel in North America.

Sigh!

Working on a train trip from Barcelona to Venice - train, hotel, visit and train, onwards east bound. A very detailed way to see the landscape and experience the urban areas.

[ak1004]

Going back to the topic of "decline" - there appears to be a contest for stupid and for abusive behavior towards passengers on many lines. Looks at this topic:

 

 

[kirtihk]

21 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Like I said, I do not understand this entire "loyalty thing."  Then again, HAL fans nearly revolted when HAL said they were going to stop giving out their "tinny" medallions that some folks actually wear around their necks :).  Whatever floats one's boat!

 

There is the issue of loyalty programs where folks really covet getting a perk that might save them a few dollars on an expensive cruise.  That being said, we find it interesting that the new Explora Journeys cruise line, which is a very high-end luxury line with the deep pockets of MSC, has yet to even start a cruise "loyalty" program after 10 months in operation.  And MSC cruise lines (one of the larger cruise lines in the world) has a loyalty program where one's level (and perks) expire after 3 years of not booking a cruise.  That line routinely gives past cruisers a 5% discount off the cruise fare.  While this is real money, the reality is that veterans and some other folks can actually qualify for 10% off without ever having taken a cruise.  And one of our cruise agents (who has been in the business for decades) tells me that some cruise lines (especially HAL) is more likely to give a free upgrade to a first-time cruiser than their most loyal repeaters.  Why?  Apparently, the cruise lines understand that repeaters who are always loyal do not need much incentive to book.  But a first time cruiser needs lots of encouragement.

 

We do like some of our "loyalty" benefits we get from various cruise lines, but it has never influenced the line we book.  The thought of spending $10,000, $20,000 or more and letting free laundry be the deciding factor is laughable (to us).  

It's so true.

 

When we booked the first Ponant (French cruise line) cruise, we got $1,200 per couple first-cruise discount, $600 per couple AARP discount, and $600 per couple referral discount on top of 30% off early booking discount.  Funny, that cruise (March 8-24, 2020 Eastern Island to Tahiti) happened to be our Shmandemic cruise (we had 4 extra luxury cruise days).

[FeliciaLee]

13 hours ago, FetaCheese said:

After reading more about O vs V vs SB,  I would like to experience the SB product.  Have looked a little, but fares do seem to be quite high.  Will have to do a thorough side by side cost analysis of inclusions, to see how each compares to the others.

We have only taken one Seabourn cruise. One of those great deals online. It was 11 nights in Nov/Dec 2022.

 

The things we loved were: friendliness and warmth of crew and passengers. Prizes for games. Gelato. Cabin. Price per night for value. Buffet.

 

The things that weren't so great: lack of activities. Start of dining time at 7pm. So-so quality and service in MDR. Espresso was never hot enough no matter how much we begged.

 

We really had a great cruise on Seabourn, but the late dining time just isn't for us. Keep in mind that although it includes more than Oceania, you still have to pay the port fees & taxes additionally. So that ups the price per night. Also, shore excursions aren't included, either.

 

But for the price per night? Yes, it was an excellent product and an excellent cruise!

[mnocket]

19 hours ago, Hlitner said:

There are good trains in Europe and Japan.  However, you are on your own with luggage and train stations can be huge.

 

Hank

The luggage situation is what worries me about train travel in Europe. Some 1st class cars have a small luggage areas the end, but some don't.  Pretty much you have to store your luggage in the racks above the seats, or if it doesn't fit, in the isle or on a seat and risk the rath of other passengers.  

[Vallesan]

1 hour ago, FeliciaLee said:

 

The things that weren't so great: lack of activities. Start of dining time at 7pm. So-so quality and service in MDR. Espresso was never hot enough no matter how much we begged.

 

We really had a great cruise on Seabourn, but the late dining time just isn't for us. Keep in mind that although it includes more than Oceania, you still have to pay the port fees & taxes additionally. So that ups the price per night. Also, shore excursions aren't included, either.

 

But for the price per night? Yes, it was an excellent product and an excellent cruise!

Just wanted to say that I think that when it comes to activities with SB it depends very much on whether you are doing a ‘warm’ or ‘cold’ weather cruise. 
 

We sailed Caribbean with Oceania and Eastern Europe with Seabourn last year. Both warm weather cruises. Seabourn had many deck activities with special buffets, music, and evenings on deck. I don’t recall anything extra special on Oceania.

 

So I guess it’s not just food, activities and price etc. that need to be considered but, just to muddy the waters even more, also the ‘type/time’ of the cruise!

[mnocket]

15 hours ago, Hlitner said:

We have read about some luxury trains (quite pricey) in India which sound quite interesting.  

Yes.  I've watched Youtube videos from travel vlogers who specialize in taking luxury train trips in many countries.  India was interesting.  There's also one in Peru that looks great. 

Andean Explorer, A Belmond Train | Luxury Train Travel in Peru

 

They tend to be very expensive, but doing 1 or 2 of these trips is starting to creep onto our bucket list🙂

[Vineyard View]

11 hours ago, Mareblu said:

Ours was Sept 2019.  Were you on Orion?  If so, and your cruise was after ours, then maybe they reduced the salt😂

We Last sailed in October 2019 on V, but it was not on Orion. Again, sorry you had that experience. And yes, their MDR is not impressive to us either. 

[Vineyard View]

8 hours ago, shepherd really said:

The plural of anecdote is not data 

Not quite a single example, but whatever rings true for you is your choice, without judgement from me. 
I stand by that I have  read a lot of examples on these threads that suggest it is not a plural of anecdote of data. 

[jonthomas]

have done 3 VO cruises.

 

one was after 50 with Celeb and we liked V much better, that was 2 years before covid...

 

the second one was during the start of covid, V flew us back home when all the ports closed...they were fantastic doing that and gave us half credit for the cruise and certificates towards a future one...

 

our third one was last march when we and so many others were using up our credits...

 

it was the worst cruise we had ever done, that includes 50 on Celeb, 2 on V and 6 on O.

 

the food was not edible, my opinion, the roof over pool stayed closed the entire time, even though calm, beautiful weather....hot and stuffy in the most sought after area....

 

I think because so many were using up credits, V took all kinds of short cuts to save money.

 

We are on our 10 O cruise this march, have done several over the last 2 years to get to that level. We are satisfied with all that O has to offer us. 

 

[Hlitner]

34 minutes ago, mnocket said:

Yes.  I've watched Youtube videos from travel vlogers who specialize in taking luxury train trips in many countries.  India was interesting.  There's also one in Peru that looks great. 

Andean Explorer, A Belmond Train | Luxury Train Travel in Peru

 

They tend to be very expensive, but doing 1 or 2 of these trips is starting to creep onto our bucket list🙂

We have generally avoided rail in favor of rental cars.  Trains are fine for getting between Point A and Point B, but other than pressing your nose against a window you miss out on everything between those points.  A car also makes it somewhat easier to move one's luggage.  Japan is also somewhat unique in having an amazing luggage shipping system.  In that country, you can ship your luggage (many times done overnight) between two points and than take their excellent trains without the burden of anything more than some light carry-on.  The cost of shipping is quite reasonable (last year we sent two large bags from Tokyo to Kyoto for less then $60.  

 

But, in Europe, we do think trains are very overrated (some will flame me for taking this position).  Consider that you will seldom never find anyone to help you with luggage (in Europe).  For some folks, just lifting their luggage onto some trains can be difficult and leaving your luggage at the end of the car (the storage method on many trains) does cause some security concerns (luggage thieves are not uncommon).  There is also the issue that European trains cannot get you to many desirable places.  Just consider a popular town such as San Gimignano where there is no train station.  One would need to take a local train to the closest station and then wait for a bus or hire a taxi, just to get to this walled town.  or consider that many of the best parts of France can only be accessed by vehicle (be it a bus or car).  On the other hand, being able to take the train between London and Paris is fast, relatively easy, and convenient if one is just visiting those two cities or needs to move between the UK and the continent.

 

Speaking of trains, as much as we love to cruise, I do think many cruisers are kidding themselves when they think its a great way to see a country.  We have long suggested that our idea of a perfect trip involves both cruising and driving.  So, for example, a long TA cruise from the USA to somewhere in Europe followed by a few weeks of driving can open up most of the continent.  River cruises are also another option in Europe (and parts of Asia).

 

Hank

 

 

[Vallesan]

Hlitner.

 

I do think many cruisers are kidding themselves when they think it’s a great way to ‘see’ a country.

 

I agree!

 

I’m not all together certain people cruise to  actually ‘see a country’. Get a flavour maybe? 

 

We cruise purely for the cruise ‘experience’! If we wanted  to really  ‘see’ a country  we would visit on a land trip.

[cruisemom42]

I like trains for point-to-point trips in Europe, but I would discourage using the overnight service. I've done it twice: once from Frankfurt to Paris and once from Lisbon to Madrid; despite having a private compartment, I found it very difficult to sleep and consequently was walking around in a haze all the next day. 

 

My grandfather worked for a couple of the passenger line trains during their golden days. Even after he retired he was able to get rail passes for family. The absolute WORST was taking Amtrak in the 1970s from near our home in southern Georgia to Fort Lauderdale by myself to stay with the then-retired grandparents. My parents sent me by myself as young as around 9 or 10! The trains would often run many hours behind schedule.

 

I don't think I've ever been in a high-speed train (the ones that do the longer routes) that didn't have luggage storage somewhere in each car, though it might fill up. There is a plethora of information on various train services, including the ability to look at actual cars on various lines at the wonderful site called "The Man in Seat 61" which includes trains in Europe, UK, Asia, Africa, Australia and more:  https://www.seat61.com/

 

 

[1985rz1]

12 minutes ago, Vallesan said:

I do think many cruisers are kidding themselves when they think it’s a great way to ‘see’ a country.

 

I agree.  We think of cruising as a way to sample cities, countries, and areas to see if we want to go back for a land trip.

[mnocket]

23 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

We have generally avoided rail in favor of rental cars.  Trains are fine for getting between Point A and Point B, but other than pressing your nose against a window you miss out on everything between those points.  A car also makes it somewhat easier to move one's luggage.  Japan is also somewhat unique in having an amazing luggage shipping system.  In that country, you can ship your luggage (many times done overnight) between two points and than take their excellent trains without the burden of anything more than some light carry-on.  The cost of shipping is quite reasonable (last year we sent two large bags from Tokyo to Kyoto for less then $60.  

 

But, in Europe, we do think trains are very overrated (some will flame me for taking this position).  Consider that you will seldom never find anyone to help you with luggage (in Europe).  For some folks, just lifting their luggage onto some trains can be difficult and leaving your luggage at the end of the car (the storage method on many trains) does cause some security concerns (luggage thieves are not uncommon).  There is also the issue that European trains cannot get you to many desirable places.  Just consider a popular town such as San Gimignano where there is no train station.  One would need to take a local train to the closest station and then wait for a bus or hire a taxi, just to get to this walled town.  or consider that many of the best parts of France can only be accessed by vehicle (be it a bus or car).  On the other hand, being able to take the train between London and Paris is fast, relatively easy, and convenient if one is just visiting those two cities or needs to move between the UK and the continent.

 

Speaking of trains, as much as we love to cruise, I do think many cruisers are kidding themselves when they think its a great way to see a country.  We have long suggested that our idea of a perfect trip involves both cruising and driving.  So, for example, a long TA cruise from the USA to somewhere in Europe followed by a few weeks of driving can open up most of the continent.  River cruises are also another option in Europe (and parts of Asia).

 

Hank

 

 

I guess with modern navigation systems it's much easier to drive in countries where you don't speak the language and can't read the road signs. Funny you mentioned a TA to Europe followed by a road trip. Next year I am taking a TA with my brothers & spouses.  They then intend to do a road trip in England.  My wife has never been to Paris, so I've been pondering splitting off and touring France by car.  I've never seen France beyond Paris, so a road trip may well be in our future.  Added bonus... we've been watching Escape to the Chateau and she would love to stay in some Chateaus😍