Key Bridge in Baltimore collapses into Patapsco River in Baltimore after vessel crashes into support column

[jimbo5544]

5 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

Correct - it looks to be about 3,600 feet plus a bit (depending on damage to next set of piers).

 

Still a really huge amount of bridge to rebuild.

Bet the next one has plenty of protection around the main struts.  Wonder if the owner of the cargo ship goes belly up. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, jimbo5544 said:

Bet the next one has plenty of protection around the main struts.  Wonder if the owner of the cargo ship goes belly up. 

 

Nah, between insurance, LLCs, shell companies, etc. I'm sure they are well insulated.

[aborgman]

12 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Both the original key bridge and replacement Skyway bridge took 5 years.   

 

The Skyway Bridge took 7 years.

 

The collapse was May 9, 1980.

The new Skyway Bridge opened April 20, 1987.

 

Construction took 5 years - but it took 2 years after the collapse before construction started.

[jimbo5544]

1 minute ago, sparks1093 said:

I read that one expert was predicting 1 month to clear the channel. I don't have a dog in the fight since we stopped sailing out of Baltimore but I do wish the folks that live in that area well and hope that no one drags their feet in getting things back to normal.

 Neither do I. Hope I am all wet in my procrastination.  Clearing the shipping lane is one thing.   Removing all the old bridge is huge.  Then start the build.  That is a long road to hoe. 

[jimbo5544]

1 minute ago, Afttastic said:

 

Nah, between insurance, LLCs, shell companies, etc. I'm sure they are well insulated.

Depends who it is.  They sure better be.  One of my past lives was with reinsurers (had the Sunshine contract).  They best have really deep pockets and be really cash rich.  Hope it ain’t Merck.  

[jimbo5544]

3 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

The Skyway Bridge took 7 years.

 

The collapse was May 9, 1980.

The new Skyway Bridge opened April 20, 1987.

 

Construction took 5 years - but it took 2 years after the collapse before construction started.

Thanks, that makes my point even stronger.  Someone thing this would be done in two years is dreaming.  Applaud the optimism, but not happening.  

[aborgman]

4 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Bet the next one has plenty of protection around the main struts.  Wonder if the owner of the cargo ship goes belly up. 

 

The operator (Maersk) not the owner would be the one who could potentially bear responsibility.

I'm pretty sure Maersk could afford to rebuild the bridge out of pocket without going belly up, never mind insurance.

The Bridge cost $60 million to build in 1977.

That is ~$320 million today.

 

Maersk has $6.7 BILLION in liquid cash reserves.

[Bill Miller]

A great Youtube site for maritime coverage is  What's going on with shipping. This is a report from this AM. Expect accurate updates in the future. 

 

[aborgman]

9 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Bet the next one has plenty of protection around the main struts.  Wonder if the owner of the cargo ship goes belly up. 

 

The Skyway Bridge has pier protection because of the collapse of the original bridge.

 

...but this cargo ship is 10,000+ tons bigger than the pier protection of the Skyway Bridge can withstand.

I'm not sure there is any pier protection system that will stand up to boats once you start crossing the 100,000 ton mark.

[Old Fart Cruisers]

11 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Bet the next one has plenty of protection around the main struts.  Wonder if the owner of the cargo ship goes belly up. 

 

Ian Firth, a British structural engineer and bridge designer, reviewed video footage and said there appeared to be at least two protective objects in the water next to the Key Bridge. The objects, known as “dolphins,” are supposed to protect maritime structures from being hit by vessels. But Dali, the container ship that struck the bridge, appeared to have come in “at an angle,” Firth said, which means the devices were unable to prevent the ship from striking the bridge, sending part of it tumbling into the water

[KmomChicago]

9 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Depends who it is.  They sure better be.  One of my past lives was with reinsurers (had the Sunshine contract).  They best have really deep pockets and be really cash rich.  Hope it ain’t Merck.  

I can’t even guess how much the total loss related to this would ring up. Obviously billions, not just the cleanup and rebuilding but lost revenue. 

[jimbo5544]

4 minutes ago, KmomChicago said:

I can’t even guess how much the total loss related to this would ring up. Obviously billions, not just the cleanup and rebuilding but lost revenue. 

My knowledge of this is old but it sounds reasonable.  

[WhaleTailFlCruiser]

12 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

The Skyway Bridge has pier protection because of the collapse of the original bridge.

 

...but this cargo ship is 10,000+ tons bigger than the pier protection of the Skyway Bridge can withstand.

I'm not sure there is any pier protection system that will stand up to boats once you start crossing the 100,000 ton mark.

it’s kinda moot since I don’t believe this ship could fit underneath the skyway.

[aborgman]

8 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Thanks, that makes my point even stronger.  Someone thing this would be done in two years is dreaming.  Applaud the optimism, but not happening.  

 

Yep...

 

The Bay Bridge replacement took 11 years. The Skyway Bridge took 7 years. The Pensacola Bay Bridge took 15 years. The I-35 Bridge took over a year. Murrow Memorial Bridge took over 2 years.

 

 

I'm guessing somewhere in the 5-7 year range for full restoration.

[jerseygirl3]

8 hours ago, Pomc99 said:

Was this the bridge that was too low to allow larger cruise ships access to the port of Baltimore?
 

If so, build a new bridge taller to allow the larger cruise ships out of Baltimore. 

I'm sure that, given the fact that at least 6 people are missing, their thoughts are with those poor souls and their families, and not building a higher bridge for cruise ships🤦🏻‍♀️

[jimbo5544]

10 minutes ago, Old Fart Cruisers said:

 

Ian Firth, a British structural engineer and bridge designer, reviewed video footage and said there appeared to be at least two protective objects in the water next to the Key Bridge. The objects, known as “dolphins,” are supposed to protect maritime structures from being hit by vessels. But Dali, the container ship that struck the bridge, appeared to have come in “at an angle,” Firth said, which means the devices were unable to prevent the ship from striking the bridge, sending part of it tumbling into the water

I am familiar with dolphins, did not want confuse the conversation more.  Seems premature analysis at this point but experts do know more.  I would wager the protection this time will be as big as possible.  Knee jerk reaction but the way it works.  Look at pics of the Sunshine before and after.  Significant change, if memory serves. 

[aborgman]

9 minutes ago, WhaleTailFlCruiser said:

it’s kinda moot since I don’t believe this ship could fit underneath the skyway.

 

The Francis Scott Key Bridge had a clearance of 185 feet.

The Skyway Bridge has a clearance of 180.5 feet.

 

Clearance wise - they're functionally identical.

Edited March 26 by aborgman

[IntrepidFromDC]

I'll be interested to see how this affects demand for Carnival out of Manhattan.  My best casino offers the past year plus have been out of Manhattan. From Baltimore to Manhattan it's only 2 hours, 15 minutes on the fast train, and about 3 hours on the slower Regional - and the train station (34th St) is less than 20 blocks from pier 88 (48th and 12th I think).  The last few times I didn't even hail a taxi, just walked.  

Edited March 26 by IntrepidFromDC

[At Sea At Peace]

Official White Statement ~

 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/26/remarks-by-president-biden-on-the-collapse-of-the-francis-scott-key-bridge/

 

MARCH 26, 2024

Remarks by President Biden on the Collapse of the Francis Scott Key Bridge

12:46 P.M. EDT
 
THE PRESIDENT:  Hello, folks.  Sorry to keep you waiting.  I was waiting to talk to the last member of the delegation in the region.
 
Good afternoon.  Before I leave for North Carolina, which I’m going to do in a few minutes, I want to speak briefly about the terrible incident and accident that happened in Baltimore this morning. 
 
At about 1:30, a container ship struck the Francis Scott Key Bridge, which I’ve been over many, many times commuting from the state of Delaware either on a train or by car.  I’ve been to Baltimore Harbor many times.  And the bridge collapsed, sending several people and vehicles into the water — into the river. 
 
And multiple U.S. Coast Guard units, which are stationed very nearby, thank God, were immediately deployed, along with local emergency personnel.  And the Coast Guard is leading the response at the port, where representatives from the Federal Highway Administration, the FBI, the Department of Transportation, the Army Corps of Engineers, as well as Maryland officials and Baltimore Police and Fire — they’re all working together to coordinate an emergency response.
 
Officials at the scene estimate eight people were unaccounted for still — not still, were unaccounted for.  That number might change.  Two have been rescued — one without injury, one in critical condition.  And the search-and-rescue operation is continuing for all those remaining as we speak.
 
I spoke with Governor Moore this morning as well as the Mayor of Baltimore, the County Executive, United two — both United States senators and the congressman.  And my Secretary of Transportation is on the scene. 
 
I told them we’re going to send all the federal resources they need as we respond to this emergency, and I mean all the federal resources.  And we’re going to rebuild that port together.  
 
Everything so far indicates that this was a terrible accident.  At this time, we have no other indication — no other reason to believe there was any intentional act here. 
 
Personnel on board the ship were able to alert the Maryland Department of Transportation that they had lost control of their vessel, as you all know and have reported.  As a result, local authorities were able to close the bridge to traffic before the bridge was struck, which undoubtedly saved lives. 
 
And our prayers are with everyone involved in this terrible accident and all the families, especially those waiting for the news of their loved one right now.  I know every minute in that circumstance feels like a lifetime.  You just don’t know.  It’s just terrible.
 
We’re incredibly grateful for the brave rescuers who immediately rushed to the scene. 
 
And to the people of Baltimore, I want to say: We’re with you.  We’re going to stay with you as long as takes.  And like the governor said, you’re Maryland tough, you’re Baltimore strong, and we’re going to get through this together.  And I promise: We’re not leaving.
 
Here’s what’s happening now.  The search-and-rescue operation is our top priority.  Ship traffic in the Port of Baltimore has been suspended until further notice.  And we’ll need to clear that channel before the ship traffic can resume.  The Army Corps of Engineers is on the spot and is going to help lead this effort to clear the channel. 
 
The Port of Baltimore is one of the nation’s largest shipping hubs.  And I’ve been there a number of times as a senator and as a vice president.  It handled a record amount of cargo last year.  It’s also the top port in America for both imports and exports of automobiles and light trucks.  Around 850,000 vehicles go through that port every single year, and we’re going to get it up and running again as soon as possible.
 
Fifteen thousand jobs depend on that port.  And we’re going to do everything we can to protect those jobs and help those workers.
 
The bridge is also critical to — for travel, not just for Baltimore but for the Northeast Corridor.  Over 30,000 vehicles cross the Francis Scott Key Bridge on a daily basis.  It’s virtually th- — well, it’s one of the most important elements for the economy in the Northeast and the quality of life.

My Transportation Secretary is there now.  As I told Governor Moore, I’ve directed my team to move heaven and earth to reopen the port and rebuild the bridge as soon as hu- — humanly possible.  And we’re going to work hand in hand with the support of Maryland — to support Maryland, whatever they ask for.  And we’re going to work with our partners in Congress to make sure the state gets the support it needs.
 
It’s my intention that federal government will pay for the entire cost of reconstructing that bridge, and I expect to — the Congress to support my effort.

 

This is going to take some time.  And the people of Baltimore can count on us, though, to stick with them at every step of the way until the port is reopened and the bridge is rebuilt. 
 
You know, we’re not leaving until this job gets done — not leaving until then.
    
So, I just want to say God bless everybody who — everyone harmed this morning and their families.  And may God bless the first responders, who — many of whom risking their lives.

And I’m going to — the reason I’m not going to take a lot of questions — there’s remaining issues that are open that we got to determine what’s going to happen in terms of — of the rescue mission and the like.  But I’ll — I’m —

Edited March 26 by At Sea At Peace

[jimbo5544]

9 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

The Francis Scott Key Bridge had a clearance of 185 feet.

The Skyway Bridge has a clearance of 180.5 feet.

 

Clearance wise - they're functionally identical.

It will be interesting to see the new design.  

[Wehwalt]

16 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

The Francis Scott Key Bridge had a clearance of 185 feet.

The Skyway Bridge has a clearance of 180.5 feet.

 

Clearance wise - they're functionally identical.

Somewhere upthread it was mentioned that the Chesapeake Bay Bridge (U.S.-50), under which cruise vessels leaving Baltimore must pass before reaching the open sea, has clearance of 186 feet. There was some discussion that this might be replaced in the future, though. Today won't speed that up, I'd guess. First things first.

[1BDNANA]

56 minutes ago, WhaleTailFlCruiser said:

This reminds me of when the cargo ship hit the old skyway bridge here in Tampa. I wasn’t alive for it but the article ext on it were quite horrific. 
 

Hopefully search and rescue saved everyone. I can imagine the fear of being on that bridge and having it fall out from under you. 

This situation is scary similar to Baltimore but that one happened due to a freak storm pushing a barge into the bridge and more pedestrian traffic was on the bridge when it collapsed. It is also one of the bridges that cruise ships barely scrape under when pulling out of port.

 

[jimbo5544]

4 minutes ago, 1BDNANA said:

This situation is scary similar to Baltimore but that one happened due to a freak storm pushing a barge into the bridge and more pedestrian traffic was on the bridge when it collapsed. It is also one of the bridges that cruise ships barely scrape under when pulling out of port.

 

there are certainly similarities.  All the talk about height, it seems to be a red herring.  There is another bridge to go under....unless they stretch that one, it matters not.

[Earthworm Jim]

1 hour ago, jimbo5544 said:

One more ray of sunshine for all the optimists.  Where is the vast majority of steel produced.  

 

Your comment went over my head. I looked it up and answer is apparently China by a wide margin. (10x the US) But I'm not clear on why that is cause for optimism. Or pessimism, if the comment was intended as sarcastic.

[jimbo5544]

4 minutes ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

Your comment went over my head. I looked it up and answer is apparently China by a wide margin. (10x the US) But I'm not clear on why that is cause for optimism. Or pessimism, if the comment was intended as sarcastic.

Sorry, I was not trying to be funny or coy.  You are correct, like many things China holds most of the cards.  There is absolutely no cause for optimism.  I did not view it as sarcasm, and was not meant to be, but more like dismay.  It certainly will not be a help to an already dismal situation.  All that said, hope remains supreme.