Has Silversea Really Changed That Much?

[ak1004]

13 minutes ago, highplanesdrifters said:

 

I think you hit the nail on the head and explained the current situation perfectly.  

 

Add in:

Along with new cruisers there are also the upgraders.  Will folks find the upgrade from Oceania, Viking, etc. worth it?

Lots of folks trying expedition, will all the new ships get supported?

Will the excessive marketing to a younger demographic work? Enough with all the influencers on board!

 

Although we currently have 4 expeditions booked I'm actively looking for alternatives. 

 

 

We don't consider SS a real upgrade from O, definitely not worth 50%+ higher price.

[UKCruiseJeff]

54 minutes ago, spinnaker2 said:

I think that was the intent of Manfredi. But so far the hay hasn’t been spun into gold.

 

Hi Spins,

 

You may recall as we've both been here for a while that we worked with Manfredi and SS for a while on this very topic ie CS and how to best "harvest" high-value relationships ie us punters  for the longer-term.  He was incredibly proud of his line and I wonder how many of the senior people that were appointed over time supported his visceral motivations. I was thrilled that we worked with them for a while. 

 

What I can say is that he was totally 100% emotionally committed to expanding and growing his line whilst preserving exceptional quality.  To remind you with the contemporary context, this was at a time when the only viable competitor too SS's first few ships was SB, but they didn't have balconies. I think in those days it was Wind, Cloud, Whisper and Shadow but my memory isn't what it was. These were great days to be an SS customer.  I saw the long-term opportunity as an open goal. I believed then that SS had an extraordinary opportunity.  However there is a difference in the way that you can grow.  You can grow organically and grow in line with your customer growth ie only building ships when you believe you can fill them at a viable diem and therefore can guarantee you can afford to protect the high level of quality you need.  This is the best way of growing ie in sync with your growing customer base and therefore gives you the best long-term shot IMHO.  It is slower but self-sustaining.

 

Or you can make your aspiration for say 11 ships as quickly as possible being your guiding impetus.  This implies you running after the volume you need to underpin the growth which inevitably (and in my view invariably) compromises quality. It has always seemed to me that this inevitably means moving down market.  The problem is that as you crawl down market to sustain your debt-base and you inevitably increasingly disappoint and lose your existing loyal customer base.

 

This is where I think following growth overly aggressively will almost always compromise your long-term goals.  I remember very clearly expressing it at the time as being.  "You have a choice.  You can grow aggressively and force yourself to compete below the clouds with all the lower cost lines to steal some of their volume or you can go above the clouds where there is currently no competition and grow more slowly but more certainly - but with the advantage of little or no competition".  It was this exact philosophy that won us the relationship.

 

It was clearly accelerated growth rather than organic growth that was the strategy that was pursued and you and I and others have therefore been left as orphans and deprived of somewhere to spend our hard-earned cash.

 

I remain sadly and pathetically upset that such an enormous opportunity has still yet to be grasped permanently by any line.  But what do I know.

 

Jeff

Edited May 2 by UKCruiseJeff

[highplanesdrifters]

34 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

We don't consider SS a real upgrade from O, definitely not worth 50%+ higher price.

 

Good to know, thanks for your opinion.

[UKCruiseJeff]

2 hours ago, highplanesdrifters said:

 

I think you hit the nail on the head and explained the current situation perfectly.  

 

Add in:

Along with new cruisers there are also the upgraders.  Will folks find the upgrade from Oceania, Viking, etc. worth it?

Lots of folks trying expedition, will all the new ships get supported?

Will the excessive marketing to a younger demographic work? Enough with all the influencers on board!

 

Although we currently have 4 expeditions booked I'm actively looking for alternatives. 

 

 

Hi,

 

The issue that might be factored into your thoughts is that an entrant into the uber-luxury game needs to be clear what it wishes to achieve.  

 

I’m so distant from the innards that I can only go on my instinct.  It seems to me that the general upscale opportunity in cruising isn’t in expedition.  I say this because it seems to me that the opportunity for even higher diems is low - it’s already quite high and the limiting factor of the  size of ship is inevitably small’ish so there are no scale savings and the opportunity for quality improvement therefore is limited because there might not be so much revenue increase opportunity. 

 

It seems to me that the opportunity is the larger opportunity of mainstream ocean cruising. You mention upgraders and to me that implies something “a bit better”.  I think the opportunity is in way more.  I think it is for what is now currently routinely promised and not provided by anything I read about.  It is where SS started.  I mean genuinely exceptional in all respects.

 

There is also a ship size sweetspot  which seems to increase each year and I believe there is a growing pent-up demand for something better than what’s currently on offer. Your point seems if I have understood you predicated on the idea that a luxury line needs a high volume of defectors from cheaper lines.  In fact it seems to me that it needs a much smaller number of people looking for exceptional product and aren’t too bothered about the cost within justifiable reason. For example our move to our first cruise with SS was my wife’s insistence that I should stop nagging about having my own cruiser but instead have a better experience and save money by booking 801 on Whisper for our first trial cruise. She was right.  It was a stunning experience.

 

Re expeditions.  I’m lucky,  I’m not nimble and the idea of getting off of a ship into a dingy so I can see some penguins seems a daft idea when I can stay at home and watch them on youtube with some cake and some booze and my own bed at nights.  But I’m just a lethargic.

 

Jeff

 

 

Edited May 2 by UKCruiseJeff
shpelling

[machotspur]

4 hours ago, highplanesdrifters said:

 

Along with new cruisers there are also the upgraders.  Will folks find the upgrade from Oceania, Viking, etc. worth it?

 

 

An excellent point in my humble opinion.

 

I recognise that our experience on Silver Dawn last month is hardly a statistically robust sample.

Having said this the cruise we were on (Barbados round trip) had an unusually high number of 'first time on Silversea' guests - all looking to experience this 'ultra luxury' thing. 

 

We chatted with quite a number of (Brit) first timers whose previous experiences were with the likes of Oceania, Azamara, Viking, Saga (and others that I can't recall). Without exception they failed to see why they should spend £000's more with Silversea versus their usual preferred operator, as the Silversea product was no better - and at times inferior.

 

Like some others on here we have been in 'cancellation mode' following that cruise. I can certainly understand how these 'first timers' were feeling.  

 

BTW - less than 2 years ago we had experienced both Silver Dawn (maiden voyage) and Silver Moon and were thinking that this group of ships would suit us for years to come. How wrong we were.

   

[highplanesdrifters]

22 hours ago, UKCruiseJeff said:

 I think it is for what is now currently routinely promised

 

 

All of your comments once again are spot on!  Especially the one above.

 

Our last expedition in Feb/March, 35 days on Cloud was our best trip to date.  The service and food were excellent.  I felt the old days were back. Sebourn Encore last November was a mess. I feel it's the luck of the draw when it comes to which ship is going to have enough trained staff to deliver.

 

We board Seabourn Venture in a month and have 2 more booked on Pursuit. We are trying Ponant next February.  It will be interesting to see what we get.

 

22 hours ago, UKCruiseJeff said:

For example our move to our first cruise with SS was my wife’s insistence that I should stop nagging about having my own cruiser but instead have a better experience and save money by booking 801 on Whisper for our first trial cruise. She was right.  It was a stunning experience.

 

A very smart woman!  Suite 801 is our favorite of all time.

 

22 hours ago, UKCruiseJeff said:

Re expeditions.  I’m lucky,  I’m not nimble and the idea of getting off of a ship into a dingy so I can see some penguins seems a daft idea when I can stay at home and watch them on youtube with some cake and some booze and my own bed at nights.  But I’m just a lethargic.

 

I love it.  That's what makes a market.  The thought of getting on a bus gives me the shivers. 😃   FWIW,  I still love being lethargic with cake and booze.

 

Again, brilliant comments. Thanks.

[highplanesdrifters]

20 hours ago, machotspur said:

We chatted with quite a number of (Brit) first timers whose previous experiences were with the likes of Oceania, Azamara, Viking, Saga (and others that I can't recall). Without exception they failed to see why they should spend £000's more with Silversea versus their usual preferred operator, as the Silversea product was no better - and at times inferior.

 

All very interesting, thanks for the perspective. 

 

Reading through some threads sounds like the ball is being dropped on a regular basis, crowded buses, bad service, less then desireable food, etc.  I can see their point.

As mentioned we experienced this on Seabourn Encore last fall. It was in the Mediterranean. We called it the hop on hop off party cruise.  It was all about the pool parties with zero enrichment. A bit of a zoo full of Holiday Makers. Lest you think I'm anti party, we did find ourselves dancing till 1 a.m on one occasion.  But every night, crikey, good for them!

 

I like the smaller ships and will continue to roll the dice on them. 

[dawntrdr]

On the issue of the importance of retaining Silversea's reputation, the RCI Annual Report (SEC 10K) was sent out this week containing this information:  the total "goodwill" of RCI (including Silversea, Crystal, TUI, Hapag Lloyd, and the enormous RCCL cruise ship fleet) is valued by them at $809 Million.  The portion of that which is attributable just to Silversea (whose entire passenger capacity could fit in one RCCL megaship) is $509 million.  This overbalance makes it a "critical audit matter" requiring special notice by the auditors.

 

Goodwill on a balance sheet is not a measurement of customer satisfaction or lack of complaints of course - at least not directly.  It represents the difference between what you paid for the tangible assets and the value of those assets.  So far the auditors are saying that Silversea's expected performance, cash flow, bookings, etc.,  justifies this hefty difference.  I'm not an accountant but I have to believe that Silversea's reputation and appeal has to be a matter of some attention by the management.

[Texas Tillie]

9 minutes ago, dawntrdr said:

On the issue of the importance of retaining Silversea's reputation, the RCI Annual Report (SEC 10K) was sent out this week containing this information:  the total "goodwill" of RCI (including Silversea, Crystal, TUI, Hapag Lloyd, and the enormous RCCL cruise ship fleet) is valued by them at $809 Million.  The portion of that which is attributable just to Silversea (whose entire passenger capacity could fit in one RCCL megaship) is $509 million.  This overbalance makes it a "critical audit matter" requiring special notice by the auditors.

 

I think you should have typed Celebrity, rather than Crystal!!🤪☺️🙃

[UKCruiseJeff]

2 hours ago, highplanesdrifters said:

All of your comments once again are spot on!  Especially the one above.

 

A very smart woman!  Suite 801 is our favorite of all time.

 

Again, brilliant comments. Thanks.

 

Thanks so much for the kind comments!

 

She was right about 801.  We had most of our meals there and in those days you could order what you wanted and everything was wonderful.  It was like having your own boat without any of the palaver. Or cost.  Or noisy neighbours!  No one passes 801. 

 

For a couple of ports we were able to grab 802 which was vacant and had it set out boardroom style and in those days you could easily invite guests on board for the day.  And to my surprise, no charges. SS considered it marketing. 

 

We had clients and friends who joined us in Barcelona, Monaco etc etc and SS put up a great seafood table and manned our private bar for us on each day and never has our client meetings gone so exceptionally well and so fluidly. I think the cruise more than paid for itself a few times over.   Not many people have gone to work in 801/2.  It certainly killed the idea of my own boat.

 

To salivate, here is “wife on a shelf” and some more.  

 

Thanks again.

 

Jeff

 

 

Edited May 3 by UKCruiseJeff
spelling

[dawntrdr]

2 hours ago, Texas Tillie said:

 

I think you should have typed Celebrity, rather than Crystal!!🤪☺️🙃

Too true!  My bad!

[Aussieflyer]

I have been reading with interest this discussion thread. We have cruised SS a few times and have always enjoyed the experience - we have had few complaints about the service, food or amenities. It seems most businesses (and cruise lines) have made cutbacks over the past few years.

 

My question is - when does this become a deal breaker for you? Is there a 'line in the sand' that once crossed means that SS is off the table and you will look for alternative ship experiences? 

[RetiredandTravel]

5 hours ago, Aussieflyer said:

I have been reading with interest this discussion thread. We have cruised SS a few times and have always enjoyed the experience - we have had few complaints about the service, food or amenities. It seems most businesses (and cruise lines) have made cutbacks over the past few years.

 

My question is - when does this become a deal breaker for you? Is there a 'line in the sand' that once crossed means that SS is off the table and you will look for alternative ship experiences? 

 

When they farm the food & service at Atlantide to "Applebee's" I'm out.

 

[Aussieflyer]

12 hours ago, RetiredandTravel said:

 

When they farm the food & service at Atlantide to "Applebee's" I'm out.

 

We don't have Applebee's in Australia but I am I correct in assuming it is some kind of restaurant/dining chain (sort of upmarket Macdonalds)?

[canderson]

1 hour ago, Aussieflyer said:

We don't have Applebee's in Australia but I am I correct in assuming it is some kind of restaurant/dining chain (sort of upmarket Macdonalds)?

https://www.applebees.com/en/menu

 

[Tothesunset]

53 minutes ago, canderson said:

https://www.applebees.com/en/menu

 

Now here's an interesting thing: I'm in Poland just now and when I click your link I'm denied access to the site, a message saying something to the effect that "my" country has been blocked. So I changed to my UK VPN and, guess what, the site opened. 

 

How odd. 

[texanaust]

Some of Applebee's food might be better...😉

[turtlemichael]

1 hour ago, Tothesunset said:

Now here's an interesting thing: I'm in Poland just now and when I click your link I'm denied access to the site, a message saying something to the effect that "my" country has been blocked. So I changed to my UK VPN and, guess what, the site opened. 

 

How odd. 

I can see the site in Australia. I just ordered home delivery from the nearest store (Honolulu) for Aussieflyer.

[Aussieflyer]

3 hours ago, turtlemichael said:

I can see the site in Australia. I just ordered home delivery from the nearest store (Honolulu) for Aussieflyer.

Should I set the table ready? 🤣

[DavyWavey70]

Well it opened here straight away and triggered my lachanaphobia instantly. Bro-coli everywhere. Shudder. 

[highplanesdrifters]

On 5/4/2024 at 4:23 AM, Aussieflyer said:

My question is - when does this become a deal breaker for you? Is there a 'line in the sand' that once crossed means that SS is off the table and you will look for alternative ship experiences? 

 

I eliminated SS traditional ocean ships from my searches when SS went D2D fares. Paying an exorbitant rate for crowded bus rides is not my cup of tea.  Blacklane does not service our city.  Unless you are at a major international hub Silversea air useless. You never know what Silversea is going to consider a "luxury" hotel anymore.  I was shocked when I compared similar itineraries on similar ships SS vs. Seabourn. 

 

21 hours ago, RetiredandTravel said:

 

When they farm the food & service at Atlantide to "Applebee's" I'm out.

 

 

There was one trip of late where the food was so bad I would have played La Dame prices for Applebees.  And I'm not sure if I've ever been to an Applebees. 😂

 

 

Edited May 5 by highplanesdrifters

[lincslady]

Well done, Davey - a word I had never heard of, which is quite unusual.  Could be useful in onboard trivia.  I hope you haven't got it badly, sounds difficult to cure.

[Host Jazzbeau]

5 hours ago, DavyWavey70 said:

Well it opened here straight away and triggered my lachanaphobia instantly. Bro-coli everywhere. Shudder. 

I thought it meant you didn't like people named Lachlan... 😁

[Archipelago]

My last trip on the Shadow I had a seafood chowder. I was sick on my stomach and nauseated within 40 minutes from food poisoning. I felt okay once I got rid of that tainted chowder . First time I've ever gotten sick on a cruise ship's food . No more seafood or fish for me 

[DavyWavey70]

5 hours ago, lincslady said:

Well done, Davey - a word I had never heard of, which is quite unusual.  Could be useful in onboard trivia.  I hope you haven't got it badly, sounds difficult to cure.

There's no cure Lola, If Bro-coli goes anywhere near my food I can't touch it. It harks back to an incident involving several hundred pieces of additional protein that were extremely well hidden within the florets and only made their presence known when it went into the boiling water. I Can't even look at it since.