Celebrity in Hot Water - Edge sailed too close to Kauai’s NaPali Coast

[zestyzorra]

17 minutes ago, msolok said:

 

Another thing that makes the whole thing a bit murkier is that Captain Matt was not even the captain who started the cruise. Captain Matt only took over the ship after his 6 months holiday when the ship reached New Zealand. So he would have been handed a bunch of the cruise information as he came onboard, and he likely wasn't involved in the planning and preparation work for the cruise.

I was on this cruise. Captain Matt was always slated for this sailing but asked Captain Kostas to cover for him for the first few days so Captain Matt could finish a vacation with his family.

[msolok]

1 minute ago, zestyzorra said:

Captain Matt was always slated for this sailing but asked Captain Kostas to cover for him for the first few days so Captain Matt could finish a vacation with his family.

 

Yeah, which is what i said. I said he did not start the cruise, he picked it up from New Zealand. The why for this is really not important. It makes it more unclear as to where this has gone wrong, and really means that we need to wait on the investigation into it.

[cruise47]

The Coast Guard is under the Department of Homeland Security. 

[Steeler808]

10 minutes ago, cruise47 said:

The Coast Guard is under the Department of Homeland Security. 

Yes...and they are the only US Armed forces that do. They also transfer under the Navy during wartime because...they're part of our military. 

[Steeler808]

Not the greatest pic but Edge was in Hilo today while flying in. 

[ito717]

Managed to change all of tomorrow’s plans to today (minus 4 hours since we arrived at noon today vs the original 8am tomorrow) and had a great day in Hilo. Lots more chatter about this, including from our Uber driver and a tour guide today. 
 

I’m looking at the NOAA charts that are publicly available for the Island of Kauai and I can’t find any restrictions or markings off the Na Pali coast about the 50 passenger/3000 yard zone. Now I’m curious. Does anyone know where this restriction comes from (State of Hawaii? Kauai County? NOAA?) and how it is communicated to mariners? 

Edited May 3 by ito717
Feet vs yards.

[Aloha23]

4 hours ago, msolok said:

 

Guessing you where in a different Seating for the show. At the earlier session he said they were only contacted by the coast guard (not the Navy, as this really isn't the navy's job) once we were already leaving, and he didn't say we were within 300 feet.

Yes - we did the 9 pm. I thought it was interesting he said military and not a specific branch but I definitely recall him saying military. He said 300 yards (not feet). Was it the same joking demeanor in the 7 pm show?

Edited May 3 by Aloha23

[jwlane]

8 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

 about 43 feet of water...

Lots more than she needs.

[yogini06]

43 minutes ago, jwlane said:

Lots more than she needs.

Yes.  I don’t believe we were ever in “shallow” waters or in any danger.  The violation was the distance to the shore not the depth of the water.  

[Ex-Airbalancer]

1 hour ago, jwlane said:

Lots more than she needs.

I bet if there wasn’t enough water below the Edge , alarms would be going off in bridge 🔔

[jelayne]

14 hours ago, Straughn said:

And, from what I have read, intentional.

Don’t believe everything you read, and certainly not what you read on social media.  

[jelayne]

2 hours ago, Aloha23 said:

Yes - we did the 9 pm. I thought it was interesting he said military and not a specific branch but I definitely recall him saying military. He said 300 yards (not feet). Was it the same joking demeanor in the 7 pm show?

The US Coast guard is a branch of the military. 

[Jeremiah1212]

3 hours ago, ito717 said:

Managed to change all of tomorrow’s plans to today (minus 4 hours since we arrived at noon today vs the original 8am tomorrow) and had a great day in Hilo. Lots more chatter about this, including from our Uber driver and a tour guide today. 
 

I’m looking at the NOAA charts that are publicly available for the Island of Kauai and I can’t find any restrictions or markings off the Na Pali coast about the 50 passenger/3000 yard zone. Now I’m curious. Does anyone know where this restriction comes from (State of Hawaii? Kauai County? NOAA?) and how it is communicated to mariners? 

 

This law dated 1988 outlines the restrictions. The actual exhibit (the diagram depicting the area) is a poor scanned copy of a copy, but it outlines the area. 

 

https://casetext.com/regulation/hawaii-administrative-rules/title-13-department-of-land-and-natural-resources/subtitle-11-ocean-recreation-and-coastal-areas/part-3-ocean-waters-navigable-streams-and-beaches/chapter-256-ocean-recreation-management-rules-and-areas/subchapter-2-north-shore-kauai-ocean-recreation-management-area/section-13-256-41-na-pali-coast-ocean-waters-general-restrictions

 

My little 19 foot boat doesn't make me a marine navigation expert, but short of some technical malfunction which is pretty obvious did not happen, negligence isn't an 'out'. You still bear responsibility.

[Ergates The Ant]

I’m sure the ship and passengers wouldn’t have been in any danger. However, the restriction would likely to have been to preserve and protect the delicate underwater systems of the local marine life. 
The damage to the environment could be irreparable, and the damage to the already dubious reputation of cruise ships could be far reaching. 
At a time when cruise lines are having to invest hugely in minimising their environmental impact, and already facing a backlash from ports of call like Venice, and the UNESCO Fjord areas, if the ship did contravene local restrictions, this will and should IMO end badly.

[Liao]

4 hours ago, msolok said:

 

Ok, sure. But what I was really just saying was that even amongst the people actually on the cruise, there was different things that had been said.

 

 

Another thing that makes the whole thing a bit murkier is that Captain Matt was not even the captain who started the cruise. Captain Matt only took over the ship after his 6 months holiday when the ship reached New Zealand. So he would have been handed a bunch of the cruise information as he came onboard, and he likely wasn't involved in the planning and preparation work for the cruise.

It’s irrelevant because he is still the captain, the one in charge and responsible.

[NMTraveller]

3 hours ago, jwlane said:

Lots more than she needs.

LOL.  But they are sending sand and bottom debris all over the place in a protected wildlife area.

 

A captain without any common sense?  It would not be the first time...

Edited May 3 by NMTraveller

[Fly and Sail]

1 hour ago, NMTraveller said:

LOL.  But they are sending sand and bottom debris all over the place in a protected wildlife area.

 

A captain without any common sense?  It would not be the first time...

 

I would take the expertise of a Captain employed by RCCL/X over the "expertise" of people on an online messaging board any day. And common sense as well. 😄

[NMTraveller]

49 minutes ago, Fly and Sail said:

 

I would take the expertise of a Captain employed by RCCL/X over the "expertise" of people on an online messaging board any day. And common sense as well. 😄

Even the RCL captain who took the ship into a storm with 30 footers and burned out one of the azipods and shortened the cruise?  What do you call him?  Ex captain ...

Edited May 3 by NMTraveller

[QuestionEverything]

Interesting pic of the ship from above, how so? Looked like a drone pic.

Go to the basics of navigation:

If you are using both bow and stern azipods - you are in close quarters.

Enough said.

Big error here.

 

[msolok]

4 hours ago, Liao said:

It’s irrelevant because he is still the captain, the one in charge and responsible.

 

Sorry, what is irrelevant?

If you want a scape goat, sure just blame the captain. He was responsible for the ship at the time it occured.

But if you want to actually get to the bottom of what happened so you can make sure it doesn't happen again, it needs to be investigated.

 

And my comments are in no way saying the Captain isn't responsible. All I am doing is pointing out that currently what has gone wrong is fairly murky, and the captain of the ship isn't the one who finalised the voyage or started it.

[zestyzorra]

9 hours ago, msolok said:

 

Yeah, which is what i said. I said he did not start the cruise, he picked it up from New Zealand. The why for this is really not important. It makes it more unclear as to where this has gone wrong, and really means that we need to wait on the investigation into it.

You said it was "murkier," so I was saying the reason as it was told to those of us on the ship by Captain Kostas.

[CruisingTheWaves]

1 hour ago, QuestionEverything said:

Interesting pic of the ship from above, how so? Looked like a drone pic.

Go to the basics of navigation:

If you are using both bow and stern azipods - you are in close quarters.

Enough said.

Big error here.

 

I believe it’s a photo taken by a helicopter, not a drone. The reflection on the right side of the photo is a reflection from the copter.

[Liao]

1 hour ago, msolok said:

 

Sorry, what is irrelevant?

If you want a scape goat, sure just blame the captain. He was responsible for the ship at the time it occured.

But if you want to actually get to the bottom of what happened so you can make sure it doesn't happen again, it needs to be investigated.

 

And my comments are in no way saying the Captain isn't responsible. All I am doing is pointing out that currently what has gone wrong is fairly murky, and the captain of the ship isn't the one who finalised the voyage or started it.

Never even did I mention a scape goat.  Simply said the captain is in charge and responsible, and he/she is.

[NMTraveller]

8 hours ago, jwlane said:

Lots more than she needs.

Cruise ships have roughly a 30 foot draft.  That means that the bottom of the ship is only 13 feet above the sand.  I have driven powerboats.  I would not go full speed in 13 foot of water as the depth can change very quickly.

[Steeler808]

1 hour ago, Liao said:

Never even did I mention a scape goat.  Simply said the captain is in charge and responsible, and he/she is.

Exactly. Responsibility of the ship and root cause of the incident are entirely different things. 

 

And as far as those saying...well he was in x feet of water so he had plenty of room. He wasn't navigating in a dredged out channel or a commercial harbor with markers showing hazards here or even an established known lane. If you think every inch of the near shore waters has every rock/coral outcropping notated...well I guess ignorance is bliss. 

 

Go look at a topographical map of dry land and see if it designates every rock that sticks up 20 feet lol.