Oceania vs Queen Mary 2

[WildWanderers]

Hi All,

 

We recently cheated on Oceania with a Queen Mary 2 cruise from Southampton to NYC as a way to get back to North America.  Comparing our 12 cruises on Oceania to one on Cunard is in some ways unfair, plus we have been in better accommodation on average on Oceania.  With these as caveats, and in no particular order...

 

On QM2 there didn’t seem to be a cruise director, and the entertainment director has no presence (makes no announcements, does not host cocktail parties, etc.).  The presence of a cruise director on Oceania who reminds you of daily activities and hosts the Oceania Club members cocktail party and Captain’s cocktail party creates a sense of camaraderie or family.  There was however a daily newsletter to let you know what activities there were.

 

On the QM2 staff appear unhappy and detached, but some do warm up when you take an interest in them.

 

On the QM2 sommeliers walk around with coffee carafes in the buffet restaurant, not looking to see who needs more coffee, rarely offering.

 

On the QM2 sommeliers and bar staff have tablets to read your room card as you order a drink.  The system recognizes if you have a drinks package or not, and the order goes straight to the mixologist behind the bar, or in a far-off room somewhere.  The sommelier will reappear to drop your already-poured drink.  As you do not see the bottle as the drink is poured, a pinot noir could look suspiciously dark from time to time.  On the other hand, there was no need to track him/her down to hand over your key card after drinking.

 

On the QM2 bar staff and buffet restaurant staff rarely clean up empty glasses or dinnerware, so that people looking for a table cannot tell if a table is available or not.

 

On the QM2 the captain had no accent and his noontime report was understandable and rich with info.

 

On the QM2 you can request a fixed table for dinner, but have to be there before 6:30 p.m. or it can be given to someone else.

 

On the QM2 dress codes are strictly enforced.  At the beginning of the cruise there was a large number of men who tried to wear baseball caps into our fine-dining restaurant.  In spite of what you hear and read, men can go without jackets at dinner if dressed in smart casual.

 

On the QM2 the ship was quite stable even in rough weather.

 

On the QM2 you have to pay more for the specialty restaurants and are otherwise restricted to your designated restaurant, the buffet and a pub that is open only for lunch.

 

On the QM2 food portions are smaller, making it more feasible to have an appetizer, soup or salad plus main.

 

On the QM2 lockers in the spa area work like the safe in your room, so there is no need to carry a locker key around.

 

On the QM2 there were constant nonstop huge line-ups at the purser’s desk (what did all of these people need?), and there may be a concierge in the concierge lounge for higher class accommodation, but there is no major presence of a concierge service as there is on the larger Oceania ships and to a lesser degree on the R-class ships.

 

On the QM2 at the purser’s desk, I tried to purchase a gift to be placed in the cabin of a friend on the upcoming cruise of the same ship, and at first was given lots of reasons why it was a bad idea, including what if she does not show up.  Hunh?

 

Much of the QM2 is just gorgeous, but the rooms could use a refresh:  metal shower curtain hooks holding up a clingy shower curtain, for example.

 

On the QM2 you are limited to cocktails and wines by the glass that are $13.50 USD and less.  You can order a small glass that comes in under $13.50, and another one later, for the same result, double the work for the staff.  But the sommeliers often give you the full glass and charge for two small, to save their time.  The nice champagne does not have a small glass so it is out of bounds unless you pay extra for it.

 

The Cunard website is difficult to use and not very informative.  There is an app to allow you to track your expenditures, but we could not upload it onto our iPhones.  There is no access to your expenditures on the TV system.

 

At the end of the voyage, when disembarking from the QM2, there was no announcement re where to go.  Our room steward told us to go to deck 3, which was so jam-packed you could not move.  (The folk who went early were in line-ups that snaked around on the floor and they knew where the line started and stopped and tried to keep people from butting in.  However, as more and more folk got off the elevators, the open area became so packed that there was no definition of line-ups possible any more…plus no one knew where to go anyway.)  We had booked a motor-coach to the Newark airport.  There were still no announcements. On Oceania you are called according to your luggage tag colour and number, and told to stay away from the gangway if you have not been called.  At one point we went through a bar to bypass the stationary crowd, found a line to a disembarkation exit, and went way to the end of the line.  When we finally got to the front of the line, the woman at the door mentioned (did not shout) that anyone on motor-coach was expected to have gone to deck 2 - which was not easy to get to at that point.  Once we finally got to deck 2 we were told to go toward the stern.  When we got to that exit, we were told that the motor-coach exit was actually further toward the aft than we were even when we had gotten down to deck 2.  We finally got to the exit and they were trying to expedite the motor-coach people out - frustrated that the motor-coach people were so late - and still no announcements.  It was still a good walk to the motor-coaches.  We had gone downstairs at 8 a.m. instead of the 8:15 suggested time, and ended up on the bus at about 9:45, almost two hours later, when it could have taken just 30 minutes max.  And when we drove off, I felt sorry for the poor souls with (far too much) carry-on luggage stuck in the directionless disembarkation crowd.

 

Cunard offered us the opportunity to bid on an upgrade, which we had done, and did not succeed.  We are returning from NYC to Southampton for a holiday later this year, and were successful on the upgrade for that crossing, so it will be fun to see the difference.  The cost of the crossing we just completed was the same as two business class tickets from Europe to North America, which is why we thought we would give it a try.

 

Although this is more of a QM2 review, it is through the eyes of an Oceania traveller, focussing on Oceania vs QM2 (small sample) differences.

 

In case any of this helps,

 

Cheers,

Greg from the WildWanderers.

 

 

 

 

 

[LuAnn]

1 hour ago, WildWanderers said:

Hi All,

 

We recently cheated on Oceania with a Queen Mary 2 cruise from Southampton to NYC as a way to get back to North America.  Comparing our 12 cruises on Oceania to one on Cunard is in some ways unfair, plus we have been in better accommodation on average on Oceania.  With these as caveats, and in no particular order...

 

On QM2 there didn’t seem to be a cruise director, and the entertainment director has no presence (makes no announcements, does not host cocktail parties, etc.).  The presence of a cruise director on Oceania who reminds you of daily activities and hosts the Oceania Club members cocktail party and Captain’s cocktail party creates a sense of camaraderie or family.  There was however a daily newsletter to let you know what activities there were.

 

On the QM2 staff appear unhappy and detached, but some do warm up when you take an interest in them.

 

On the QM2 sommeliers walk around with coffee carafes in the buffet restaurant, not looking to see who needs more coffee, rarely offering.

 

On the QM2 sommeliers and bar staff have tablets to read your room card as you order a drink.  The system recognizes if you have a drinks package or not, and the order goes straight to the mixologist behind the bar, or in a far-off room somewhere.  The sommelier will reappear to drop your already-poured drink.  As you do not see the bottle as the drink is poured, a pinot noir could look suspiciously dark from time to time.  On the other hand, there was no need to track him/her down to hand over your key card after drinking.

 

On the QM2 bar staff and buffet restaurant staff rarely clean up empty glasses or dinnerware, so that people looking for a table cannot tell if a table is available or not.

 

On the QM2 the captain had no accent and his noontime report was understandable and rich with info.

 

On the QM2 you can request a fixed table for dinner, but have to be there before 6:30 p.m. or it can be given to someone else.

 

On the QM2 dress codes are strictly enforced.  At the beginning of the cruise there was a large number of men who tried to wear baseball caps into our fine-dining restaurant.  In spite of what you hear and read, men can go without jackets at dinner if dressed in smart casual.

 

On the QM2 the ship was quite stable even in rough weather.

 

On the QM2 you have to pay more for the specialty restaurants and are otherwise restricted to your designated restaurant, the buffet and a pub that is open only for lunch.

 

On the QM2 food portions are smaller, making it more feasible to have an appetizer, soup or salad plus main.

 

On the QM2 lockers in the spa area work like the safe in your room, so there is no need to carry a locker key around.

 

On the QM2 there were constant nonstop huge line-ups at the purser’s desk (what did all of these people need?), and there may be a concierge in the concierge lounge for higher class accommodation, but there is no major presence of a concierge service as there is on the larger Oceania ships and to a lesser degree on the R-class ships.

 

On the QM2 at the purser’s desk, I tried to purchase a gift to be placed in the cabin of a friend on the upcoming cruise of the same ship, and at first was given lots of reasons why it was a bad idea, including what if she does not show up.  Hunh?

 

Much of the QM2 is just gorgeous, but the rooms could use a refresh:  metal shower curtain hooks holding up a clingy shower curtain, for example.

 

On the QM2 you are limited to cocktails and wines by the glass that are $13.50 USD and less.  You can order a small glass that comes in under $13.50, and another one later, for the same result, double the work for the staff.  But the sommeliers often give you the full glass and charge for two small, to save their time.  The nice champagne does not have a small glass so it is out of bounds unless you pay extra for it.

 

The Cunard website is difficult to use and not very informative.  There is an app to allow you to track your expenditures, but we could not upload it onto our iPhones.  There is no access to your expenditures on the TV system.

 

At the end of the voyage, when disembarking from the QM2, there was no announcement re where to go.  Our room steward told us to go to deck 3, which was so jam-packed you could not move.  (The folk who went early were in line-ups that snaked around on the floor and they knew where the line started and stopped and tried to keep people from butting in.  However, as more and more folk got off the elevators, the open area became so packed that there was no definition of line-ups possible any more…plus no one knew where to go anyway.)  We had booked a motor-coach to the Newark airport.  There were still no announcements. On Oceania you are called according to your luggage tag colour and number, and told to stay away from the gangway if you have not been called.  At one point we went through a bar to bypass the stationary crowd, found a line to a disembarkation exit, and went way to the end of the line.  When we finally got to the front of the line, the woman at the door mentioned (did not shout) that anyone on motor-coach was expected to have gone to deck 2 - which was not easy to get to at that point.  Once we finally got to deck 2 we were told to go toward the stern.  When we got to that exit, we were told that the motor-coach exit was actually further toward the aft than we were even when we had gotten down to deck 2.  We finally got to the exit and they were trying to expedite the motor-coach people out - frustrated that the motor-coach people were so late - and still no announcements.  It was still a good walk to the motor-coaches.  We had gone downstairs at 8 a.m. instead of the 8:15 suggested time, and ended up on the bus at about 9:45, almost two hours later, when it could have taken just 30 minutes max.  And when we drove off, I felt sorry for the poor souls with (far too much) carry-on luggage stuck in the directionless disembarkation crowd.

 

Cunard offered us the opportunity to bid on an upgrade, which we had done, and did not succeed.  We are returning from NYC to Southampton for a holiday later this year, and were successful on the upgrade for that crossing, so it will be fun to see the difference.  The cost of the crossing we just completed was the same as two business class tickets from Europe to North America, which is why we thought we would give it a try.

 

Although this is more of a QM2 review, it is through the eyes of an Oceania traveller, focussing on Oceania vs QM2 (small sample) differences.

 

In case any of this helps,

 

Cheers,

Greg from the WildWanderers.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks! I remember you had mentioned you were going home this way. We were first on her when she was brand new and loved the ship. Glad to hear the men don't need jackets. How were the ladies dressed in the MDR? 

[WildWanderers]

Hi @LuAnn,

 

The ladies were dressed formally for dinners, many with stunning dresses.  Breakfast and lunch in the main dining room were more casual, and the buffet was very casual, including shorts and running gear.  Few wore shorts anyway as the transatlantic crossing was cold in early April.

 

Women were dressed to the nines on the two Gala nights:  Black & White and Roaring 20's.  Especially the women were quite creative for the Roaring 20's.  We had a table for dinner where we had a great view of the folk as they entered, quite entertaining.

 

We did not have a Black & White outfit, so went to the buffet that night.  From 6 p.m. though in the bars, you have to be dressed for dinner, including on the Gala nights in that garb, or you have to leave the bar.  I did not know this, but understood why the bar waiter had looked at his watch when I ordered a second drink, as it was moments later that he asked me to leave.

 

I heard that there was a place onboard you could rent Gala-wear but we did not explore this.

 

Cheers,

Greg

[Jim_Iain]

Curious what class you were traveling on Cunard and if that may have been the reason for the congestion, crowding and disorganization.   This fall we will be sailing Cunard eastbound from New York to Southampton Queen's Grill. 

 

Having never sailed Cunard it will indeed be an adventure.

 

 

[PhD-iva]

Thanks so much for this. I think I am now less curious about sailing on Cunard.. 

[the mice]

Like @LuAnn we were on her in 2004, her maiden year.  Ours was a 12 night Caribbean cruise sailing out of NY when she was still docking on the West Side - with a third of the ship extending past the pier out into the Hudson.   I joke that this cruise is why I will never win the lottery as we had our run of luck here -  I booked a hull balcony, but our boarding passes were for a regular balcony.  But our key card didn't work there, so suddenly we were upgraded to Princess Grill (like 3x what we had paid!!). We even had our own personal stationery! Good thing we drove down to the ship so we had the fancy clothes (no longer), the good jewelry, etc. so we fit in OK, although we wore shorts to breakfast and lunch and our British table neighbors were very friendly.  We had a great time, and loved the fitness center and Canyon Ranch spa pool and the planetarium.  Truly a gorgeous liner. 

We took her again over Labor Day weekend 2009 for a 3 day cruise to St. Johns in Canada - booked an inside and there we stayed.  Still had fun back then.  So @WildWanderers I hope you will enjoy your 2nd cruise.  And @Jim_Iain I am sure you will enjoy Queen's Grill very much!

Now we enjoy Oceania which is much more our style.  (and the suits and fancy dresses are a bit tight around the midsection these days anyway 😁)

[Mareblu]

8 hours ago, Jim_Iain said:

Curious what class you were traveling on Cunard and if that may have been the reason for the congestion, crowding and disorganization.   This fall we will be sailing Cunard eastbound from New York to Southampton Queen's Grill. 

 

Having never sailed Cunard it will indeed be an adventure.

 

 

I can assure you that your Queen’s Grill experience will be superb.  Our QG voyage on QE last year bore absolutely no resemblance to this review.  Service, staff, accommodation and cuisine were all impeccable.  We have just completed 20 days on Vista;  we also love Oceania.  We’re embarking Queen Anne in 2 weeks.  It will be interesting to compare new vessels.

[WildWanderers]

Hi @Jim_Iain and @the mice and @PhD-iva,

 

@Jim_Iain :

Good question re could our type of room (basic Britannia) be correlated with the congestion.  It is possible that the times people were to disembark were staggered by type of room or floor, but I have no way of knowing this.  That said, it would be difficult to believe that the crowds on deck 3 were only from our room type.  People may well have ignored the disembarkation time they were given.  I still find the lack of announcements to be puzzling.

 

Thanks to @the mice for your kind wishes.  Our successful upgrade was to the Queen's Grill, so we will have a different experience for sure this Summer.

 

And to @PhD-iva :  As much as Cunard did not meet the Oceania standard, in my view, I prefer it to a long flight from Europe to North America.  

 

As we went from Southampton to NYC, many days required clocks to go back by one hour - which you would think we would enjoy - an extra hour to the day;  but it just meant we were up early before it was possible to go for breakfast.

 

To get to Europe we took the Marina from Miami to Barcelona, and after a few days in Barcelona flew to Southampton.  We had thought that we would have to fly to London, and then figure out how to get to Southampton (hauling heavy luggage onto a train is not fun, and a limo is expensive), but were able to bypass London.  

 

What I take away from the Cunard experience is ... Oceania provides a very good cruising experience that is easy to criticize and perhaps under-appreciated.

 

What's the expression...you don't know what you have until the chickens cross the street to the other side...no that's not it.

 

Cheers,

Greg from the WildWanderers.

 

 

Edited May 9 by WildWanderers
to answer the question posed

[QuestionEverything]

OP thank you for your assessment.

We have cruised O quite a bit and been on the QM2 6x, the 7th is in June.

The QM2 was not designed as a cruise ship, it is a ocean liner.

QM2 is a formal experience, O is a less formal experience

QM2 is about the sea and history, O is a cruise ship

On both lines, guests are presumed to amuse themselves and are considered adults. On QM2, many passengers focus on the ship part of the experience, not entertainment, pool deck etc.

The QM2 has a viewing window where you can watch the bridge. There is an open air bridge with wings below the bridge. There is the ocean liner museum and well, then there is the best part of the QM2, the kennel!

Staff are more formal on QM2, they are warm and friendly on O. Your description of the staff looking "sad" and not engaging is correct, I have been told that it is by design as not to interfere with guests unless the guest requests.

I have been in the Grill 1x, disliked it as we eat little and the formality and fancy is not our style, we do not want or need a butler and lots of space and not interested in the price.

We go regular Britannia class with an in hull balcony. Regular balcony is not needed due to the terraced stern area with amazing sitting, reading and viewing venues, way better than a balcony. We eat in all the alternative dining venues which are amazing custom food of various ethnicities and beats the food in the Grill by a mile and much less $. This eating experience is not widely known by guests, but it is really the best at sea we have every had.

Not sure one can compare the lines - they are very different by birth and objective. 

I value both.

[WildWanderers]

Hi @QuestionEverything,

 

I understand better now my perception of the crew's standoffishness, in light of your comments;  as it is true that when we tried to connect with them they (with a rare exception) genuinely warmed up.

 

I agree that the comparison is unfair, in the sense that as an ocean liner, we see using Cunard in lieu of a transatlantic flight, and Oceania for vacations;  each meets a need for us.

 

Your point about booking a Britannia room and treating yourself to the restaurants you pay for is intriguing...you likely do end up ahead money-wise.

 

We found the Britannia room to be like a slightly outdated version of a veranda stateroom on an Oceania R-class ship, but with a shower we could fit into.  

 

Plus, also from your comments, it is clear that we missed out exploring some of the ship's nooks and crannies.

 

Cheers,

Greg from the WildWanderers

 

[HaveDogWillTravel]

@WildWanderers thanks for taking the time to write your review. When we sailed her in 2018 we enjoyed the incredible series of lectures….almost like a short class. We also liked the watercolor classes, flower arranging and fencing classes. You don’t mention any of these things. Are these not offered anymore?  We found the planetarium to be a quirky and enjoyable feature as well. 
 

FWIW our disembarkation was nothing like yours. I hope that isn’t the new norm!  We sailed in a sheltered balcony so just plain Jane Britannia for us.  

Edited May 9 by HaveDogWillTravel

[HaveDogWillTravel]

2 hours ago, QuestionEverything said:

The QM2 has a viewing window where you can watch the bridge. There is an open air bridge with wings below the bridge. There is the ocean liner museum and well, then there is the best part of the QM2, the kennel!

Loved those areas of the ship!  Especially the open air observation area at the bow.

 

My goodness the library!  Stunning. Even had a librarian. There was that secret forward elevator with glass walls that took you to it.  Loved that!  
 

And the dog  owners were so friendly.  Some of them let you pet their dogs during free play time. 

[ronrick1943]

Nice review, we've cruised both lines--I just don't think you can compare the two.  

[QuestionEverything]

Great posts everyone on the QM2.

We use her for a one way return from Europe. Have not done a cruise voyage on the QM2 yet, but soon.

We like Oceania but since the Simply More, we have no more cruises booked as we do not support mandatory drinks and excursions, both of which we do not use. 

The QM2 is unique in the world and Cunard assumes their passengers to be intellectually curious and engaged. Like HaveDogWillTravel said, the lecturers are top notch and not focused on itinerary - have had a former British Ambassador to Russia, a Concorde pilot, a retired M16 spy etc. And the library is not to be surpassed by any other vessel and highly used.

People who book the QM2 are ship people and the large numbers of people walking the promenade and sitting on the promenade is amazing. The beverage and food carts go up and down the promenade in the afternoon.

My spouse and I are ship lovers, we have sailed on many Great Lake bulk carriers as guests of the line - so we know the inner workings of ships and sailing.

What many people do not know is the QM2 is much booked by people moving from and to Europe and the US - particularly the military. The QM2 can take a vehicle, storage items and your pets, indeed! That is why the kennel is booked over 1 year in advance due to demand by those moving. 

The QM2 is everything a big cruise ship is not - she has a reinforced hull, promenade, many, many vistas of the ocean, high level open, like open, vista watching areas because Cunard presumes you are an adult...... 

Now the history of Cunard remains a bit, the class system, but it is limited to the dining areas, not the awful "ship in a ship" configuration of Celebrity, MSC etc. Those lines I refuse to patronize.

The best ship on the ocean, no question.

I was in Miami last month and the Icon was docked. I was mortified at the size and immediately I compared the size, density of passengers to the QM2. I would never set foot on the modern cruise ships.

Important, the Cunard line provides guests with much linkage to the ocean which the mass lines are increasingly doing away with (Celebrity Edge class has no forward viewing area....). Oceania provides a forward view as well.

Everyone has different wants and needs, so good we have a choice.

But the QM2 is at the top of the passenger ship food chain indeed.

My favorite vessel.

 

 

 

 

[WildWanderers]

Hi to @HaveDogWillTravel and others,

 

Thanks for talking about the activities, which are still numerous, and listed in the daily newsletter.

 

We took a package for access to the spa area that came with a massage, and ended up spending time in the spa area with the luxury of time to read on our Kindles.

 

We'll have to do a better job of exploring the ship and its activities next time.  The one I would most like to try is the "behind the scenes" tour.

 

Cheers,

Greg from the WildWanderers

 

 

[no1talks]

21 hours ago, WildWanderers said:

"In case any of this helps"

Very helpful, indeed. My first QM2 cruise is on the books for next year. Thank you very much.

[HaveDogWillTravel]

@WildWanderersthank you for confirming the unique and wonderful offerings on QM2 were being offered for you.  Whew! 
 

@QuestionEverything beautifully stated. 

[Vallesan]

? Chalk and cheese?

Personally I don’t think you can compare a ‘British’ ‘Ocean Liner’ with an ‘American’ based ‘cruise’ line. 

Even if they were comparable you can’t compare a ‘small ship’ experience to an ‘Ocean Liner’. The experiences are so different but both have their great points.
 

Both can be enjoyable…. depending on what you want!

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, QuestionEverything said:

The QM2 can take a vehicle

IIRC the QE2 was capable of transporting autombiles, but not the QM2.

[ronrick1943]

I think in reality it really comes down to what you like and enjoy on a cruise.  For us it's the size of the ship (smaller for us), it's the restaurants on the ship, and we prefer causal dress, not formal.

We want a ship that has nice suites with a Butler--a cruise is time to relax and enjoy doing nothing.  A show now and then, maybe some casino action, a cooking class and a private tour.  It's your money, you should spend it as you see fit and what's right for you.

[njhorseman]

Having sailed on both the QM2 and Oceania, our opinion is quite different from some of the others posted here.

 

To put it bluntly, we wouldn't cruise again on the QM2 if they were paying us to take the voyage. Too stuffy, too many dress code formalities, crew that could care less about you, food in the Britannia Restaurant that was no better than any mass market cruise that could be booked for considerably less money. Public venues closed to you on nights with more  formal dress requirements . A class system that should have died when the British Empire died.

 

Yes, they can have some very interesting lecturers, but that's not a big enough attraction to us to overcome the negatives.

 

To each his own.

Edited May 9 by njhorseman

[ronrick1943]

2 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

Having sailed on both the QM2 and Oceania, our opinion is quite different from some of the others posted here.

 

To put it bluntly, we wouldn't cruise again on the QM2 if they were paying us to take the voyage. Too stuffy, too many dress code formalities, crew that could care less about you, food in the Britannia Restaurant that was no better than any mass market cruise that could be booked for considerably less money. Public venues closed to you on nights with more  formal dress requirements . A class system that should have died when the British Empire died.

 

Yes, they can have some very interesting lecturers, but that's not a big enough attraction to us to overcome the negatives.

 

To each his own.

I think most people like you don't pick a cruise because of the lecturers, I know I don't cruise to be in a darken theater to hear someone talk...I want to be out and about or on a lounge chair enjoying the view.  Dressing formal, no I'm on relax mode............

[QuestionEverything]

Thankfully each of us are blessed to be able to have $ to travel. 🙏

This is not the case for the majority of our world. Sigh.

With CC and other sites, we are able to get much information that can assist us in purchasing the cruise that best meets our needs.

There is no one size fits all and that is good.

What we should all be able to agree on is that there is only one (1) ocean liner in the world, and that is the QM2.

Long may she sail, blessings QM2! 🤲

[mnocket]

Well, I guess the good news is that since you found so little positive about your QM2 sailing, you're not conflicted about whether or not to sail her again🙂

[QuestionEverything]

57 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

Having sailed on both the QM2 and Oceania, our opinion is quite different from some of the others posted here.

 

To put it bluntly, we wouldn't cruise again on the QM2 if they were paying us to take the voyage. Too stuffy, too many dress code formalities, crew that could care less about you, food in the Britannia Restaurant that was no better than any mass market cruise that could be booked for considerably less money. Public venues closed to you on nights with more  formal dress requirements . A class system that should have died when the British Empire died.

 

Yes, they can have some very interesting lecturers, but that's not a big enough attraction to us to overcome the negatives.

 

To each his own.

Thanks for your post.

I do not know your cruising history. I agree with you regarding the class system comment.

Do you sail on Celebrity? Celebrity's class system is far more overt, structured than Cunard.