Celebrity Error - Build a "Class System" into Your Ships

[kirtihk]

34 minutes ago, zitsky said:

Exactly what was the price of that cruise and WHAT Celebrity suite are you comparing it to?

 

Guess what?  Every time you find something cheaper, I can find something more expensive.  Who cares if some cruise is cheaper if I don’t want it?  You haven’t convinced me that Silversea is cheaper on average nor am I asking you to do so.

It's math: $330 x 48 = $15,840 (actually it was $16,000 - I just rounded per day to $330 instead of writing $333.33).  Anyhow, I'm not forcing anyone to book anything.

[zitsky]

37 minutes ago, kirtihk said:

It's math: $330 x 48 = $15,840 (actually it was $16,000 - I just rounded per day to $330 instead of writing $333.33).  Anyhow, I'm not forcing anyone to book anything.

Yes I see it now.  Well I asked because you seem insistent that Celebrity is overpriced.  Did I say you were trying to force anyone to book a particular cruise line?  😂

Edited October 10 by zitsky

[kirtihk]

19 minutes ago, zitsky said:

Yes I see it now.  Well I asked because you seem insistent that Celebrity is overpriced.  Did I say you were trying to force anyone to book a particular cruise line?  😂

It felt that way… sort of.

[kirtihk]

32 minutes ago, zitsky said:

Yes I see it now.  Well I asked because you seem insistent that Celebrity is overpriced.  Did I say you were trying to force anyone to book a particular cruise line?  😂

Also, it seems Retreat pricing is doubled in general within last 1.5 years (100% or so increase vs the claimed (please don’t ask me “claimed by who?”) 2% average increase (inflation) for everything in the country).  This observation is based on the current Retreat pricing for the 12-day March 3, 2025 cruise on Millennium (Singapore to Tokyo) vs Retreat pricing of the same cruise at the time I booked it in April 2023 (I booked Aqua but remember Retreat price at that time).

Edited October 10 by kirtihk

[Spif Barwunkel]

Celebrity does not build its ships with the intent of inducing a "class" system within its passenger collective. We all agree, that is absurd. The thought of a class system - on any class ship - is self-induced and is only perpetuated by one's own feelings of a lack of recognition and/or a failure to properly reward tenure. I suggest that if one feels the need to be included in all things possible on a cruise ship, with NO exceptions, write X a blank check with each booking imploring them to include you in everything special. Otherwise, be happy and be one with your station in your cruising life.      

[zitsky]

48 minutes ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Celebrity does not build its ships with the intent of inducing a "class" system within its passenger collective. We all agree, that is absurd. The thought of a class system - on any class ship - is self-induced and is only perpetuated by one's own feelings of a lack of recognition and/or a failure to properly reward tenure. I suggest that if one feels the need to be included in all things possible on a cruise ship, with NO exceptions, write X a blank check with each booking imploring them to include you in everything special. Otherwise, be happy and be one with your station in your cruising life.      

I am still upset that when I booked a Sky Suite, Captain Kate did not deliver my breakfast.  I have it on good authority that she always does this for Royal Suites.  I am further incensed that I cannot just go into the upper suites if I need a drink.  They usually have the best liquor.  All areas of the ship should be open to everyone!  😭
 

 

 

[DaKahuna]

7 hours ago, montythecat said:

However, one of our main pleasures on our cruises is

enjoying a forward facing lounge which is now no more on 

the Edge Class ships unless you are in a suite.

 

If I may beg a question here... Why are you ignoring the majority of the ships in Celebrity's fleet and focusing on the Edge Class?   There is nothing anywhere that says you can only sail on the Edge Class of ships.  There are still the Sky Lounges on both the M and S class and not even half of them have been revolutionized so on S-class the majority of them still have the Solstice deck open to all passengers.   I just don't understand the logic of abandoning a cruise line when you have plenty of opportunity to obtain what you want by simply booking a different class of ships on that cruise line. 

 

Please help me, as someone who sailed Edge class once- was not a fan and have not gone back but still continues to sail with Celebrity on M and S class ships, why you simply can't sail with Celebrity just on a different class of ships? 

 

7 hours ago, montythecat said:

On X our Elite Plus status

did not give us a lot of benefits, although tender priorities 

and booking in were always appreciated.

 

 I am pretty sure,based on numerous CC comments I have read over the years, that two bags of laundry each, unlimited coffee/tea in Cafe al Bacio, and the drinks at Elite Happy Hour are viewed with envy by non-Elite + cruisers.  

 

[montythecat]

Zitsky asks whether a person of 57 would enjoy the music on

HAL ships. I don’t see why not but music is very subjective 

and I will try and provide an answer which indicates what is

being provided and leave you, and any others interested in

this subject, to decide whether or not you would enjoy it. So,

here goes.

a) On all of the larger ships there is a rock band who play

three 45 minute sets 6 days a week usually starting between 

7 to 8 o’clock. Generally they are pretty loud and very electric.

b) On the three largest ships in a separate room there will be

a soul/blues band. They tend to be more soul than blues. 
Timings are the same as a) but the performances usually

do not clash.

c) One or two pianists play anything, rock, pop, country etc.

They are not classical. They are not lounge pianists

providing background music. He, she or they usually

generate a lot of interaction. They are in addition to the

rock band. I think two works best because they feed

off each other.

d) The theatre provides standard stuff. Singers and

dancers and guest comedians, magicians etc.

e) Elsewhere there will usually be a classical duo

and one or two individual performers in lounges.

 

Music is very important to us and we do enjoy the

unique HAL approach to providing entertainment

on their ships. As you will gather the widest choice

is provided on the three Pinnacle class ships. We

have also been on Vista class. The summary I have

given does not extend to any other class of

Holland America ship. For example, I do not know 

what is provided on the smaller ships.

 

 

[kirtihk]

34 minutes ago, DaKahuna said:

 

If I may beg a question here... Why are you ignoring the majority of the ships in Celebrity's fleet and focusing on the Edge Class?   There is nothing anywhere that says you can only sail on the Edge Class of ships.  There are still the Sky Lounges on both the M and S class and not even half of them have been revolutionized so on S-class the majority of them still have the Solstice deck open to all passengers.   I just don't understand the logic of abandoning a cruise line when you have plenty of opportunity to obtain what you want by simply booking a different class of ships on that cruise line. 

 

Please help me, as someone who sailed Edge class once- was not a fan and have not gone back but still continues to sail with Celebrity on M and S class ships, why you simply can't sail with Celebrity just on a different class of ships? 

 

 

 I am pretty sure,based on numerous CC comments I have read over the years, that two bags of laundry each, unlimited coffee/tea in Cafe al Bacio, and the drinks at Elite Happy Hour are viewed with envy by non-Elite + cruisers.  

 

And unlimited Champagne/-Bellini  breakfast morning 8 to 10.

[montythecat]

If DaKahuna and kirtihk would care to re-read my original

post I think you would find that I mention the reduction in

standards in the restaurants on X and the unique

approach to entertainment/music on Holland America as

also being reasons for no longer booking cruises with Celebrity.

[zitsky]

16 minutes ago, montythecat said:

If DaKahuna and kirtihk would care to re-read my original

post I think you would find that I mention the reduction in

standards in the restaurants on X and the unique

approach to entertainment/music on Holland America as

also being reasons for no longer booking cruises with Celebrity.

What is the unique approach to entertainment on HAL?

[NMTraveller]

2 hours ago, DaKahuna said:

Please help me, as someone who sailed Edge class once- was not a fan and have not gone back but still continues to sail with Celebrity on M and S class ships, why you simply can't sail with Celebrity just on a different class of ships? 

 

One word itinerary.  While there are still some good itineraries on M and S class ships, some of the better ones are going to E class since it is their newest and most revenue generating ships.

 

My next cruise is on Apex 🙈

Edited October 11 by NMTraveller

[cachouonacruise]

3 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Celebrity does not build its ships with the intent of inducing a "class" system within its passenger collective. We all agree, that is absurd. The thought of a class system - on any class ship - is self-induced and is only perpetuated by one's own feelings of a lack of recognition and/or a failure to properly reward tenure. I suggest that if one feels the need to be included in all things possible on a cruise ship, with NO exceptions, write X a blank check with each booking imploring them to include you in everything special. Otherwise, be happy and be one with your station in your cruising life.      

In my opinion, there is something that Celebrity did wrong, and that people sailing normally, in the Retreat, may not realize or fully understand. 
 

I understand fully that Suite Class passengers pay a lot more than a regular cabin passenger; therefore, they do deserve more!!! Absolutely! 

 

Suite Class passengers, fully deserve their special Luminae Restaurant, with their own five star Michelin Chef!

 

They fully deserve, their own private Michael's Lounge, filled with the finest wines and liquor! Of course, they do! 
 

They deserve their priority boarding line and priority tenders! 
 

They deserve Captain's Dinners etc....
 

No problem!!! 
 

They can have all that, as long as the rest of the common areas remain common to everyone... But, sadly, it's no longer true. 

 

What's relatively recent in the cruise industry, is the decision to recreate, the old Class system, by ensuring the top tier passengers, unless they choose to, don't risk to come side by side with a regular passenger.

 

To give this top tier passenger, this last perk, which includes their own deck, their own hot tub, etc, taking into account limited space on a ship; the decision was made to take away space that used to be accessible to regular passengers.
 

Regular passenger can't help missing what was withdrawn from them!!!

 

In the Titanic, the same concept applied! Upper decks reserved to the top tier passengers, deck below to the next tier and then the bottom decks for the rest of the guests. Everything was done to avoid mixing guests from a tier to the next! Now, it's similar: but it's more the front of the ship to the top tier, the rest at the back....

 

What Celebrity and other cruiseline may have miscalculated is the following: 

 

Titanic and other transoceanic vessels were use mainly for transport, meaning going from point A to point B. They were needed!!! Nowadays cruise ships are mainly used for the enjoyable experience. But they are other vacation options! cruising is not a must! 

 

I am sure that Retreat guests continue to enjoy their experience. For other guests however, especially for people who experienced what cruising used to be...it does make cruising a much less inviting experience.
 

Of note, without the help of regular passengers, taking into account their number, to cover operational expenses of the cruise ship; I am not sure Retreat guests could have access to the experience they have nowadays.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DaKahuna]

2 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

One word itinerary.  While there are still some good itineraries on M and S class ships, some of the better ones are going to E class since it is their newest and most revenue generating ships.

 

 Hmmmm.  We will be doing a 17-day TA on Solstice around the same time Edge is doing a shorter TA.  

 

 We completed a 13-day Best of Japan on Millennium.  No E-Class ships doing Japan. 

 

2 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

 

My next cruise is on Apex 🙈

 

 I think the Norwegian Fjord cruises on Apex is about the only thing that would get me to sail on E-Class as no S-Class ship does that itinerary.  However, I am still not committed. 

 

 Full disclosure I have completed three cruises in MSC YC and I have to say Celebrity is really going to need to make some changes to compete with that for our future cruise dollars. 

 

 

 

[NMTraveller]

3 minutes ago, DaKahuna said:

 

 Hmmmm.  We will be doing a 17-day TA on Solstice around the same time Edge is doing a shorter TA.  

 

 We completed a 13-day Best of Japan on Millennium.  No E-Class ships doing Japan. 

 

 

 I think the Norwegian Fjord cruises on Apex is about the only thing that would get me to sail on E-Class as no S-Class ship does that itinerary.  However, I am still not committed. 

 

 Full disclosure I have completed three cruises in MSC YC and I have to say Celebrity is really going to need to make some changes to compete with that for our future cruise dollars. 

 

 

 

Yep.  The Japan Millie cruise is on my list...

[zitsky]

9 hours ago, cachouonacruise said:

In my opinion, there is something that Celebrity did wrong, and that people sailing normally, in the Retreat, may not realize or fully understand. 
 

I understand fully that Suite Class passengers pay a lot more than a regular cabin passenger; therefore, they do deserve more!!! Absolutely! 

 

Suite Class passengers, fully deserve their special Luminae Restaurant, with their own five star Michelin Chef!

 

They fully deserve, their own private Michael's Lounge, filled with the finest wines and liquor! Of course, they do! 
 

They deserve their priority boarding line and priority tenders! 
 

They deserve Captain's Dinners etc....
 

No problem!!! 
 

They can have all that, as long as the rest of the common areas remain common to everyone... But, sadly, it's no longer true. 

 

What's relatively recent in the cruise industry, is the decision to recreate, the old Class system, by ensuring the top tier passengers, unless they choose to, don't risk to come side by side with a regular passenger.

 

To give this top tier passenger, this last perk, which includes their own deck, their own hot tub, etc, taking into account limited space on a ship; the decision was made to take away space that used to be accessible to regular passengers.
 

Regular passenger can't help missing what was withdrawn from them!!!

 

In the Titanic, the same concept applied! Upper decks reserved to the top tier passengers, deck below to the next tier and then the bottom decks for the rest of the guests. Everything was done to avoid mixing guests from a tier to the next! Now, it's similar: but it's more the front of the ship to the top tier, the rest at the back....

 

What Celebrity and other cruiseline may have miscalculated is the following: 

 

Titanic and other transoceanic vessels were use mainly for transport, meaning going from point A to point B. They were needed!!! Nowadays cruise ships are mainly used for the enjoyable experience. But they are other vacation options! cruising is not a must! 

 

I am sure that Retreat guests continue to enjoy their experience. For other guests however, especially for people who experienced what cruising used to be...it does make cruising a much less inviting experience.
 

Of note, without the help of regular passengers, taking into account their number, to cover operational expenses of the cruise ship; I am not sure Retreat guests could have access to the experience they have nowadays.

 

Have you noticed that the spa is roped off and all the specialty restaurants?

 

Were you ok when Michael’s Club was reserved for “elites”?  I didn’t see all the pearl clutching then.

[billc23]

22 hours ago, DaKahuna said:

 

They are also great on Millennium - close to the men's room and to the Retreat Lounge for pre, during, and post performance needs. 

 

Absolutely! Having seen many of the shows multiple times I usually just stay put in the Retreat lounge. 

[QuestionEverything]

10 hours ago, cachouonacruise said:

In my opinion, there is something that Celebrity did wrong, and that people sailing normally, in the Retreat, may not realize or fully understand. 
 

I understand fully that Suite Class passengers pay a lot more than a regular cabin passenger; therefore, they do deserve more!!! Absolutely! 

 

Suite Class passengers, fully deserve their special Luminae Restaurant, with their own five star Michelin Chef!

 

They fully deserve, their own private Michael's Lounge, filled with the finest wines and liquor! Of course, they do! 
 

They deserve their priority boarding line and priority tenders! 
 

They deserve Captain's Dinners etc....
 

No problem!!! 
 

They can have all that, as long as the rest of the common areas remain common to everyone... But, sadly, it's no longer true. 

 

What's relatively recent in the cruise industry, is the decision to recreate, the old Class system, by ensuring the top tier passengers, unless they choose to, don't risk to come side by side with a regular passenger.

 

To give this top tier passenger, this last perk, which includes their own deck, their own hot tub, etc, taking into account limited space on a ship; the decision was made to take away space that used to be accessible to regular passengers.
 

Regular passenger can't help missing what was withdrawn from them!!!

 

In the Titanic, the same concept applied! Upper decks reserved to the top tier passengers, deck below to the next tier and then the bottom decks for the rest of the guests. Everything was done to avoid mixing guests from a tier to the next! Now, it's similar: but it's more the front of the ship to the top tier, the rest at the back....

 

What Celebrity and other cruiseline may have miscalculated is the following: 

 

Titanic and other transoceanic vessels were use mainly for transport, meaning going from point A to point B. They were needed!!! Nowadays cruise ships are mainly used for the enjoyable experience. But they are other vacation options! cruising is not a must! 

 

I am sure that Retreat guests continue to enjoy their experience. For other guests however, especially for people who experienced what cruising used to be...it does make cruising a much less inviting experience.
 

Of note, without the help of regular passengers, taking into account their number, to cover operational expenses of the cruise ship; I am not sure Retreat guests could have access to the experience they have nowadays.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Excellent post. 

Cruising has changed much since 1966 when Mr. Ted Arison created NCL then moved to create Carnival in 1972. In 1972, Mr. Arison was ranting about the Cunard and French line being class focused. Mr. Arison stated that cruising would never be like that, and well look now, cruising is class focused indeed, right down to red carpet treatment.

When the SS France was decommissioned in 1974, eventually it was deconstructed with the physical class system removed.

 

While times change, the evolution of cruising has some items that I do not consider advantageous - but then to each their own.

 

 

[TeeRick]

15 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Celebrity does not build its ships with the intent of inducing a "class" system within its passenger collective. We all agree, that is absurd. The thought of a class system - on any class ship - is self-induced and is only perpetuated by one's own feelings of a lack of recognition and/or a failure to properly reward tenure. I suggest that if one feels the need to be included in all things possible on a cruise ship, with NO exceptions, write X a blank check with each booking imploring them to include you in everything special. Otherwise, be happy and be one with your station in your cruising life.      

Always good points Spif.  So maybe that those who want everything to be egalitarian on a ship should enlist in the Navy?  Two classes - Officers and everybody else.  But they do pay for your cruise and meals.  Downside is no drink package on board.😀

Edited October 11 by TeeRick

[RichYak]

11 hours ago, cachouonacruise said:

In my opinion, there is something that Celebrity did wrong, and that people sailing normally, in the Retreat, may not realize or fully understand. 

TBH, they didn't even get the Retreat right. It's noticeable after sailing MSC YC.

[NMTraveller]

29 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Always good points Spif.  So maybe that those who want everything to be egalitarian on a ship should enlist in the Navy?  Two classes - Officers and everybody else.  But they do pay for your cruise and meals.  Downside is no drink package on board.😀

Joining the Navy would get them free cruises to some of the places Celebrity has been cancelling 😉

[DaKahuna]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

So maybe that those who want everything to be egalitarian on a ship should enlist in the Navy?  Two classes - Officers and everybody else. 

 

Actually there are three - Officer's, Chief's, and other Enlisted.  

Most of the smaller ships may not have a Chief's Mess but they will have a Chief's Lounge.  

 

 

[TeeRick]

11 minutes ago, DaKahuna said:

 

Actually there are three - Officer's, Chief's, and other Enlisted.  

Most of the smaller ships may not have a Chief's Mess but they will have a Chief's Lounge.  

 

 

I wonder if they will allow Zenith's in the Chief's Lounge?

[markeb]

3 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

I wonder if they will allow Zenith's in the Chief's Lounge?

No…

[Andy_P]

I don't believe in a classless society.  Money might "talk", but it doesn't buy "class".  I only sail in a suite when I get a deal on either an upgrade or a "MoveUp".  Twice I've been on a B2B with one week in a suite and use of The Retreat, then the next week no suite and no Retreat and I haven't been resentful.   There's lots of fun to be had even in "Steerage".