Jump to content
Cruise Critic Community


  • Content Count

  • Joined

Everything posted by Toofarfromthesea

  1. Great rundown, thanks. We will be boarding Victory II in a few weeks for the Montreal to Boston itinerary.
  2. This isn't just a cruise thing, or a hotel thing, or a vacation thing. It is a life thing and is ever present. Kids need to be taught to be prudent starting at a very young age. By their parents.
  3. And there is the problem, as common sense has increasingly become an oxymoron, as sense has become less and less common. As we see in some of the posts in this thread.
  4. Good points. One way to reduce the number of this kind of incident, both on cruise ships and - well everywhere - is to acknowledge that in the real world there are always predators looking for the weakest animals in the herd. Don't be the weakest animal, and certainly don't MAKE yourself the weakest animal through your behavior. And if you are responsible for someone who is the weakest animal in the herd (like a 15 year old) take that responsibility seriously, and prevent them from becoming even more vulnerable. To ignore these simple universal and time-tested rules, but instead rail against the reality about predators, and then act as if they don't exist, is foolish. And when the predator is caught, unleash the full power of every available legal consequence on them. But by then it is too late to undo the trauma and aftermath of the victim. People have understood this basic truth for a long long time. Ben Franklin sad it best, IMO: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Maybe we should be teaching the parable of the scorpion and the frog. The scorpion did the stinging, but the frog was stupid for putting himself in that position. This used to be part of the general wisdom of mankind. But now we are modern and 'wise' and want to teach people it's ok to maximize your risk. It is as if crime prevention has become a discredited notion.
  5. Then quote a message in this thread where anyone said that the criminals should be held less responsible for their crime. You can't because no one said it. Prove me wrong.
  6. Every single person in this thread has said that nothing the girl did should in any way detract or reduce the culpability of the criminals or their consequences, yet you keep dishonestly portraying it as otherwise.
  7. Because heaven forbid some other 15 year old girl reads about it and figures out that she DOESN'T want her life to be changed in a horrible way and adjusts her behavior accordingly.
  8. And there are ways to minimize risk and ways to maximize risk. Which would you say happened in this case? And, frankly, I put most of the blame for the risk being maximized on the 'responsible' adults who allowed her to roam free.
  9. Yeah, pretty much. We have a cruise where we need it (missed the 6 months to expiration by about a week) coming up and I didn't want to take a chance to save a few bucks. It was dumb, on my part, to not realize we were inside the 6 month window so I could have done it sooner. But hey, if that is the dumbest thing I do all year it will be a pretty good year.
  10. I think it takes a university education to get so far away from common sense as to think that racheting up risk factors doesn't affect your risk. People without that university education just know that naturally. Because they understand the difference between the world as they want it to be and the world as it actually is.
  11. Heaven forbid people should counsel that it is unnecessary to take simple precautions to significantly reduce their vulnerability to predatory behavior. There are always predators out their. People can choose to minimize their risk or they can choose to maximize their risk. It is obvious which occurred in this case. And that in no way reduces the culpability of the predators.
  12. You should immediately dial 911 and report the guy holding the gun to your head forcing you to click on and read this thread.
  13. And you would be hard-pressed to find ANYONE in this thread who said her actions should mitigate the consequences for the criminal.
  14. You have just mischaracterized everything that was said. Which is about par for your course.
  15. Filed August 29th, got them yesterday. We both expedited and did the fast mailing option.
  16. I think that for lots of seniors school holiday times are the more UNpopular times.
  17. MSC is pretty free with military, teacher, and other discounts. I got 10% on both my MSC cruises as a (retired) teacher.
  18. And maybe that is why parents shouldn't give 15 year olds free rein on a cruise ship? Again, it is not about deserving, it is not about justice, it is not about how you wish thing were, it is about reality. It is about the world being the way it is, not the way we might like it to be. In a perfect world a 15 year old could spend the whole cruise stark naked and nothing would happen. In a perfect world, not the world we actually live in.
  19. Maybe you're not. Consequences for stupidity have nothing to do with 'deserved'. And no one said that every bad thing that happens is related to the victim doing something stupid. You are not arguing with me, you are arguing with reality. And reality can sometimes hand out some pretty harsh consequences for stupidity, sometimes consequences that are way out of proportion to the level of stupidity. No one 'deserves' to be raped, or murdered, or robbed, or assaulted, but that doesn't mean people should not act in a way to reduce their vulnerability to being raped, murdered, robbed, or assaulted.
  20. Not always, but as proven by this case, sometimes. You are arguing with reality, not me. You don't get to choose your consequence for acting stupidly.
  21. The whole trip was exactly according to the itinerary, no delays.
  22. Small sample size? Miniscule, compared to the universe of cruisers. And heavily skewed by the natural self selection of people who come on cc. Certainly nothing to warrant even the most tentative conclusion. And the fatal weakness of hypotheticals is that people's answers give very little guide to what they ACTUALLY would do IF faced with the hypothesized situation.
  23. Stupidity has consequences. It doesn't reduce the culpability of the rapist to say that serious stupidity was at play here in the actions of the girl and/or parents to create a vulnerability that got exploited. If you don't lock your door and get robbed, the robbers are completely culpable for their crime, but the homeowner was still colossally stupid. We have somehow gotten to a point where people do all kinds of stupid things that have natural consequences but somehow think they should be immune from those consequences. Reality doesn't operate like that.
  24. I've never understood questions that boil down to 'how would you react if something that is never going to happen, happens.'
  • Create New...