New airline rules

[mamaofami]

What are Israel's security precautions and measures (at Ben Gurion)?

 

 

Read post #114 on the previous page. It answers your question.

[hammybee]

I'm curious as to the time difference between US and EL AL time frames.

 

Joanie

Generally speaking, the vast majority of people flying out of JFK on El Al are Jews, many of them Israeli nationals. The next group are likely to be mature Christians visiting the Holy Land who are a part of a larger group with confirmed plans. Many corporations do business in Israel and are unlikely to send employees whose appearance, dress and/or surname creates potential concern.

 

For these reasons, it's reasonable to assume that incremental security checkpoints add an insignificant amount of time to the door to gate experience for the majority of passengers, given ethnic/racial profiling.

 

It's almost certain that Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab would have been strip searched had he attempted to board an El Al flight, anywhere.

 

It is not practical for most other airlines/airports/governments to operate the same way for obvious reasons.

 

That the starting wage for most U.S. airport security is comparable to someone serving hot dogs and less than the person emptying garbage cans, in the same airport, is shameful. Labor laws can be changed. Hiring practices, training and continuous testing can be improved. Technology can be improved. And by golly, armed air marshalls could be on every flight. All it takes is a security tax on every airline ticket. And that's not a popular option.

[RevNeal]

I have flown to and from Israel. Their security measures are incredibly tight, even on non El Al flights, and ... quite frankly ... the speed with which one is processed through security is amazing.

 

Yes, they look at YOU ... at the passenger. They use racial and religious profiling. When there is any question, they do indeed do a hand search of luggage, but it is quick and they don't mess around with innocuous things like a bottle of shampoo or shaving cream that's an ounce "too big." They first screen the person; then, if that person is cleared, it almost doesn't matter what they're carrying. If that person is suspect, then the examination becomes targeted and extreme and very personal.

 

In the US, the personal-nature of the clearing process would never be tolerated. Racial and Religious profiling is not politically correct, and hence will not be used. As a result, grandma will still be strip-searched and padded down and her hand cream will be confiscated ... while Mohamed Atta walks through with not even the bat of an eye.

[Luke Warmwater]

Generally speaking, the vast majority of people flying out of JFK on El Al are Jews, many of them Israeli nationals. The next group are likely to be mature Christians visiting the Holy Land who are a part of a larger group with confirmed plans. Many corporations do business in Israel and are unlikely to send employees whose appearance, dress and/or surname creates potential concern.

 

For these reasons, it's reasonable to assume that incremental security checkpoints add an insignificant amount of time to the door to gate experience for the majority of passengers, given ethnic/racial profiling.

 

It's almost certain that Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab would have been strip searched had he attempted to board an El Al flight, anywhere.

 

It is not practical for most other airlines/airports/governments to operate the same way for obvious reasons.

 

That the starting wage for most U.S. airport security is comparable to someone serving hot dogs and less than the person emptying garbage cans, in the same airport, is shameful. Labor laws can be changed. Hiring practices, training and continuous testing can be improved. Technology can be improved. And by golly, armed air marshalls could be on every flight. All it takes is a security tax on every airline ticket. And that's not a popular option.

 

I don't know what happens in the US but every flight I've taken for the last 10 years includes a considerable sum for "security" or some such title. In fact, my flight to Orlando next week from London has cost me about $600 of which $400 is "extras". I suggest the airlines are profiteering greatly from the current situation.

[Copper10-8]

Agree with the Rev. Profiling young Muslim male airline passengers is politically incorrect in this country so everyone gets searched. Btw, if you fly to the USA from Amsterdam-Schiphol, you will get interviewed by contract security personnel at your gate. In Amsterdam, you go through the metal detectors at the gate, after first going through "Passport control". That has been done since 9/11

[world~citizen]

...Btw, if you fly to the USA from Amsterdam-Schiphol, you will get interviewed by contract security personnel at your gate. ...

 

This has been our experience on every overseas flight to USA and Canada since 911.

 

Smooth sailing...

[Ya Ya Cruiser]

Please don't flame me, but I really think political correctness has gone way over the top. My DH is Canadian, born and raised, dark haired, slightly olive skinned, of European descent (Czech); I am blonde haired, blue eyed, of English descent - our son takes after his father; it has become a running family joke - they walz through security, I get pulled aside virtually every single time and get patted down, at both the security check point and the gate - it's bizarre!!

 

I understand today the US has published a list of 14 countries and if someone is travelling with a passport issued by one of those countries they will be subject to additional security screening - and all I can say is - it's about time!!

 

YaYa

[mamaofami]

While racial profiling may be politically incorrect, why shouldn't someone who buys a one way ticket with cash and doesn't check any luggage come under some scrutiny? I know this was in Amsterdam, but ????

[Copper10-8]

Please don't flame me, but I really think political correctness has gone way over the top. ..............

 

Got that right big time!

[zellers]

While racial profiling may be politically incorrect, why shouldn't someone who buys a one way ticket with cash and doesn't check any luggage come under some scrutiny? I know this was in Amsterdam, but ????

 

Just have to add this one to this thread :D

 

 

We are leaving for Florida within one week, so it should be very interesting leaving at 2:30am and hope all goes smoothly with two children ages 4 & 5 years, and that our flight will leave on time which is scheduled at 6:30am! Please PRAY for us :eek:

[Tamaracboy]

First: let me state that I am a firm believer in this quote from Benjamin Ftanklin:

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

That being said; the following is not a quote from me, I saw it on National News (forget the network, but it was NOT FOX):

An Israeli, from Security at Ben Gurian, had the gall to state what everyone here on CC and in the US Government and especially at TSA thinks, but is not allowed to say out loud:

"Not all Arabs are terrorists, but almost all terrorists are Arabs"

to which I thought "Finally, someone dares speak the truth".

Now, just forget PC and let the TSA and other security forces DO THEIR JOBS.

It truly boils down to this:

Would you rather be Politically Correct or ALIVE ?

r.

PS: Flame retardant suit all zippered up

[Copper10-8]

First: let me state that I am a firm believer in this quote from Benjamin Ftanklin:

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

That being said; the following is not a quote from me, I saw it on National News (forget the network, but it was NOT FOX):

An Israeli, from Security at Ben Gurian, had the gall to state what everyone here on CC and in the US Government and especially at TSA thinks, but is not allowed to say out loud:

"Not all Arabs are terrorists, but almost all terrorists are Arabs"

to which I thought "Finally, someone dares speak the truth".

Now, just forget PC and let the TSA and other security forces DO THEIR JOBS.

It truly boils down to this:

Would you rather be Politically Correct or ALIVE ?

r.

PS: Flame retardant suit all zippered up

 

Excellent post!

[mudscraper]

No flames here TB.

Those passengers just got lucky.

All countries better start profiling , the sooner the better.

Flames? I like it hot.

 

 

Rich

[cruz chic]

First: let me state that I am a firm believer in this quote from Benjamin Ftanklin:

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

That being said; the following is not a quote from me, I saw it on National News (forget the network, but it was NOT FOX):

An Israeli, from Security at Ben Gurian, had the gall to state what everyone here on CC and in the US Government and especially at TSA thinks, but is not allowed to say out loud:

"Not all Arabs are terrorists, but almost all terrorists are Arabs"

to which I thought "Finally, someone dares speak the truth".

Now, just forget PC and let the TSA and other security forces DO THEIR JOBS.

It truly boils down to this:

Would you rather be Politically Correct or ALIVE ?

r.

PS: Flame retardant suit all zippered up

I agree 100%. Looks like you've got support here.

[IRL_Joanie]

Please don't flame me, but I really think political correctness has gone way over the top. My DH is Canadian, born and raised, dark haired, slightly olive skinned, of European descent (Czech); I am blonde haired, blue eyed, of English descent - our son takes after his father; it has become a running family joke - they walz through security, I get pulled aside virtually every single time and get patted down, at both the security check point and the gate - it's bizarre!!

 

I understand today the US has published a list of 14 countries and if someone is travelling with a passport issued by one of those countries they will be subject to additional security screening - and all I can say is - it's about time!!

 

YaYa

Ya Ya, you will get no flame from me!! I'm with you on PC being way over the top! And I also agree that it's about time we are starting to step up to the plate, a baby step, but a step never the less.

 

Joanie

[IRL_Joanie]

First: let me state that I am a firm believer in this quote from Benjamin Ftanklin:

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

That being said; the following is not a quote from me, I saw it on National News (forget the network, but it was NOT FOX):

An Israeli, from Security at Ben Gurian, had the gall to state what everyone here on CC and in the US Government and especially at TSA thinks, but is not allowed to say out loud:

"Not all Arabs are terrorists, but almost all terrorists are Arabs"

to which I thought "Finally, someone dares speak the truth".

Now, just forget PC and let the TSA and other security forces DO THEIR JOBS.

It truly boils down to this:

Would you rather be Politically Correct or ALIVE ?

r.

PS: Flame retardant suit all zippered up

 

 

My answer is simple Greg, "Give me LIFE!!"

 

Joanie

[lettienets]

Please don't flame me, but I really think political correctness has gone way over the top. My DH is Canadian, born and raised, dark haired, slightly olive skinned, of European descent (Czech); I am blonde haired, blue eyed, of English descent - our son takes after his father; it has become a running family joke - they walz through security, I get pulled aside virtually every single time and get patted down, at both the security check point and the gate - it's bizarre!!

...............

You are the token white blonde being interrogated to prove they don't racially profile. Happens to me too.:D

[CDRMark]

"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

The 2007 winning entry from an annual contest at Texas A&M University calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term.

 

:rolleyes:

Cheers

Mark

[Copper10-8]

"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

The 2007 winning entry from an annual contest at Texas A&M University calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term.

 

:rolleyes:

Cheers

Mark

 

Awesome!;)

[world~citizen]

This is a very interesting article on airline safety:

 

http://securitysolutions.com/news/security_exposing_hostile_intent/

 

It also discusses what may be a misunderstanding of the things that go on at Ben Gurion, which I think most people think is very good at what it does. I note it because of references in this thread to racial profiling. Here is an excerpt:

 

Ben Gurion Airport security personnel have long faced accusations of racial profiling. Critics argue that many more Arab people are questioned than other ethnic groups. Ron denies the profiling charge. “Speaking from a security point of view, it would be professionally stupid to divert attention from non-Arab people,” he says. “For example, the worst attack on Ben Gurion was carried out by Japanese in 1972. If we focus on ethnic groups, we will miss what the enemy already understands: using a non-Arab person to carry out an attack might succeed.”

Robbins agrees, calling behavior pattern recognition the opposite of racial profiling. “With profiling, you select a group of people and just look at those people,” he says. “That won’t work. For example, you probably wouldn’t talk to a Tim McVeigh. You have to take the focus off profiling and analyze behaviors. This is what will help us to keep our airport safe.”

 

I don't pretend to know what the solution is, but as usual, I suspect it isn't going to be a simple one.

 

Smooth sailing to you...

[cruz chic]

"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

The 2007 winning entry from an annual contest at Texas A&M University calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term.

 

:rolleyes:

Cheers

Mark

Love it :D.

[world~citizen]

Love it :D.

 

Hope things settle down a bit before your cruise. Looking at the news, its hard to see how - but we can be hopeful.

 

It will be interesting to see if there will be a spillover to other international flights.

 

Smooth sailing to you...

[michmike]

and Lord knows I'm not looking to start a controversy, (and will also offer the caveat that I haven't read ALL the posts on this thread... BUT what does it say about our priorities when we spend the billions we do in response to the deaths of 3000 in the 9-11 attacks and yet 12,000 people a year die in the US in traffic accidents and I don't see any indication that we have any comprehensive strategy to address that problem.

 

How many times do you read where a drunk kills an innocent party and we find out in the investigation that it is his (or her) 8th or 9th offense? What's the plan?

 

Just heard on the ABC evening news that they estimate that 15,000 people a yr are dying in nursing homes due to what the segment referred to as "chemical restraints" , basically drugging those patients who are a management problem. What is the stategy to deal with that?

 

Our urban school systems are a wreck. What's the plan there?

 

9-11 was a tragedy, no doubt.. and we all want to be safe when we fly.. but clearly much of what is being done in response to that attack and subsequent threats qualifies as knee jerk and far from cost effective.

 

How is it that had the fella on Christmas in Detroit been successful and 300 died in a crash it would be termed a tragedy and yet we can't, as a society, summon that same angst for the victims of drunk drivers (or texters or cell phone users or speeders or the sleep deprived),nor for the elderly who are being abused in nursing homes nor for the kids in our urban areas who are being turned out the doors of their high schools w/ a diploma that in no way equips them to make their way in the world?

 

Just makes one wonder.

[cruz chic]

Hope things settle down a bit before your cruise. Looking at the news, its hard to see how - but we can be hopeful.

 

It will be interesting to see if there will be a spillover to other international flights.

 

Smooth sailing to you...

Thank you...I hope so too. Yeah...it's going to be interesting to see if it does change. It wouldn't be so hard to swallow if everyone was on a level playing field. I heard this carry on issue was supposed to end yesterday (Jan.4) and of course it didn't. Another thing that is very annoying is that Cdn. taxpayers are paying for this. It's just not right.

[CowPrincess]

In addition to all the overtime for the extra RCMP who are working security, the Cdn gov't just announced they are buying 44 full-body scanners. I'm good with the scanners being purchased but am pretty annoyed about the RCMP overtime bill the Cdn taxpayers are getting.

 

I'll give you a full report on the airport security, differences in the flights, etc, Lorekauf, when we get back from our trip. That'll give you what?? 4 days to prepare or something? :D