Screwed by HAL

[brainyblonde]

:mad:

We knew it was difficult to get from Almeria to Grenada, just about impossible on public transportation. Once HAL scheduled a transfer from Almeria to Grenada we booked the transfer and made our own reservations at the Alhambra on line. 48 hours before the transfer, while we were still in the Atlantic ocean, HAL informed us that the transfer was cancelled for lack of participation. Despite our pleas that we had the Alhambra tickets, they were totally unsympathetic. We even offered them an alternative. Put us on the unfilled excursion that was going to the Alhambra and we’d pay the same transfer rate and use our own entry tickets. They would not accommodate us.

BUT! Thanks to our Cruise Critic pals on board we were able to ride with them!!! Had we not been a part of Cruise Critic, we would never have been able to see Granada and the Alhambra, the whole reason for our trip!!

So much for HAL customer service.

Brainyblonde

[OVgirl]

Sorry that you had this experience. I have heard from other pax on this site that excursions are cancelled if there is not enough interest and numbers. Not have the transportation available must have really stressed you out. Glad it worked out in the end.

[Krazy Kruizers]

yes -- we have often gotten notices that our tours were cancelled because not enough people signed up for them

 

glad that everything worked out for you

[SwissMyst]

I don't think it is fair to say you were "screwed by HAL" because this contingency was most likely covered in their contract with you. You were only "screwed" because too few people signed up for the trip and that is not HAL's fault. And you were "screwed" perhaps because you put unrealistic personal expectations on a mass tourism cruise line.

 

Glad you got to see what you wanted to see but when cruising, there are factors outside the control of any cruise company and these conditions are disclosed in their initial contract with you. Ports can be missed, weather and sea conditions rule and the captain makes executive command decisions that are final regardless of passengers personal expectations.

 

There are some risks when choosing this mode of transportation. And certainly mass cruise line shore excursions make their own degree of independent decisions too because it is a business with appropriate disclosures made up front.

[patseacruiser]

HAL did not screw you. You booked an independent tour and when HAL cancelled the transfer due to lack of participation you thought they should bargain with you and sell you the excursion at a lesser price since you already had your tickets. That's like saying I will bring my own food for the cruise so only charge me for the cabin.

[sail7seas]

I agree. HAL did not screw you. You tried to customize an excursion they sell by 'screwing' them out of whatever profit they make. You wanted to pick and choose from their full excursion to make it work personally for you. You don't know what arrangements are made with private tour operators and it well may be in their contract they cannot provide transportation only on a tour that is supposed to include paid sight seeing. You certainy had the same option as every other guest to book the tour with HAL.

 

VERY happy it worked out okay for you.

(Grenada and Alhambra are both outstanding and definitely worth seeing.)

 

[fann1sh]

I'm so glad you got to see the amazing Alhambra.

 

I am an art, architecture and archeology nut. I'm also obsessive-compulsive :rolleyes: about my touring arrangements. So, not only do I always have a plan B, I've been known to have plans C, D, E and F :eek: on tap, when the sight/site is as important as this one.

 

I carry some back up telephone numbers with me in every port - usually taxi services with cell or sat phones. That option would have cost a fortune, but I would have made it to the Alhambra.

 

I'm glad you only needed a plan B....not C, D, etc.

[mountainmare]

I agree with the OP that at best HAL was unsympathetic. The OP offered a compromise to HAL and was stonewalled. If indeed there was an excursion that was not full and the OP said--ok, we'll pay for a seat on the bus, but not pay again for Alhambra tickets that would be a fair compromise. For HAL, they get money for what was an empty seat, and they gain some good will.

I have in the past been able to take advantage of an "empty seat" (it was offered to us) and in a situation described above would go to HAL and ask for help and be disappointed by the response.

The OP was not trying to cheat anyone and had probably chosen HAL transfers because of the dreaded "the ship won't wait for you" fear tactic. Probably the OP chose this route because they wanted to enjoy Granada at their own pace, eating where they chose, discovering what they wanted instead of being herded around.

Sorry--maybe the OP wasn't screwed by HAL, but trust and goodwill has been lost and they probably have learned a lesson to not book shore excursions through the ship when you really want to be independant.

[CtheW0rld]

i think HAL should have stuck you on one of the buses that had empty seats. it would've been very good customer service and would not have cost them one penny to do so.

[Opinions]

HAL did not screw you. You tried to customize an excursion they sell by 'screwing' them out of whatever profit they make.

 

The OP booked a transfer offered by HAL...When the transfer was cancelled the OP offered what I would consider was a fair compromise...I wouldn't consider this "screwing them out of whatever profit they make"...There would have been no need to "customize an excursion" if HAL hadn't cancelled.

[sail7seas]

What about the others who had booked transfer only? Were there enough seats for all of them who had the transfer cancelled? Should not all of them or none of them been able to go on the other excursion bus? If there were not enough seats for all, why should one be accomodated but not the others?

 

There have been some very valid points made IMO and I agree with some.

 

But what we don't know is the contract between the tour provider and HAL. We don't know the terms regarding someone taking transportation only and not the full tour but being on that provider's bus.

 

 

[donaldsc]

HAL did not screw you. You booked an independent tour and when HAL cancelled the transfer due to lack of participation you thought they should bargain with you and sell you the excursion at a lesser price since you already had your tickets. That's like saying I will bring my own food for the cruise so only charge me for the cabin.

 

Best reply so far.

 

DON

[Opinions]

What about the others who had booked transfer only? Were there enough seats for all of them who had the transfer cancelled? Should not all of them or none of them been able to go on the other excursion bus? If there were not enough seats for all, why should one be accomodated but not the others?

 

 

 

If there were 9 empty seats on the bus and there were 10 who had their transfers cancelled I think it would be ridiculous to say that no one could take advantage of the empty seats available...I wouldn't want to be the one left out but at least some could be accomodated.

[patseacruiser]

HAL may offer that excursion but HAL doesn't own the bus that is doing the excursion. An independent tour operator owns it and conducts the entire tour. The tour is priced in it's entirety. Sometimes maybe they can negotiate on your behalf for something like what you asked but it's probably not doable. I went on an excursion in Hawaii on a zodiac boat. The tour was offered by Celebrity but the boat was owned by an individual tour operator. Celebrity could not have offered me a seat on his boat but not the beach pass because I purchased the pass online cheaper. Maybe I am the one who is misunderstanding here what you were asking for.

[Jade13]

i think HAL should have stuck you on one of the buses that had empty seats. it would've been very good customer service and would not have cost them one penny to do so.

 

Do we know for sure that HAL does not pay the tour company per head (based on a minimum requirement)?

[KirkNC]

I think the thread title is a little over the top. Screwed implies you got ripped off which is not the case. Maybe HAL could have been a little more accommodating, I would concede that. The good news is you got to see what you wanted.

 

Kirk

[Jade13]

OP, what was HAL's price for the transfer only, vs. their price for the full tour (day tour with lunch)?

 

 

If HAL was going to accommodate you it would be for the full tour and not just a transfer. Even if someone from the ship tried to explain it the tour guide they would have been confused as an employee of the tour company being told two passengers were just using them as a transfer, did not need tickets, and would not be joining for lunch (but the tour guide was responsible to make sure they got back on the bus).

 

It never would have been a transfer only situation, so they were always looking at it like you wanted the full tour for the cost of a transfer.

 

How many others had paid for this transfer and how many did they need to run it?

[Jade13]

HAL may offer that excursion but HAL doesn't own the bus that is doing the excursion. An independent tour operator owns it and conducts the entire tour. The tour is priced in it's entirety. Sometimes maybe they can negotiate on your behalf for something like what you asked but it's probably not doable. I went on an excursion in Hawaii on a zodiac boat. The tour was offered by Celebrity but the boat was owned by an individual tour operator. Celebrity could not have offered me a seat on his boat but not the beach pass because I purchased the pass online cheaper. Maybe I am the one who is misunderstanding here what you were asking for.

 

They were asking to go on the full tour/excursion for the price they paid for a transfer "On your own" tour.

[Jade13]

I agree with the OP that at best HAL was unsympathetic. The OP offered a compromise to HAL and was stonewalled. If indeed there was an excursion that was not full and the OP said--ok, we'll pay for a seat on the bus, but not pay again for Alhambra tickets that would be a fair compromise. For HAL, they get money for what was an empty seat, and they gain some good will.

I have in the past been able to take advantage of an "empty seat" (it was offered to us) and in a situation described above would go to HAL and ask for help and be disappointed by the response.

 

Please tell us which port, and which excursion/transfer was canceled and which one you joined (and difference in price)? I have not seen as many "On your Own" transfer options as I have seen on Celebrity. I believe HAL offers a transfer only from Liverno to Florence, as well as the full tour option and full tour with Florence and Pisa.

[cruisemom42]

I'm well aware of the cruise line's ability to cancel any excursion that does not have sufficient participation. It is one (among many) of the reasons why I usually do not book shore excursions through the ship unless there is absolutely no workable other option.

 

I often have very particular things that I want to see and do on port stops -- and usually these don't coincide with what a majority of other cruisers want to do. For example, on Westerdam last year, I obsessed and obsessed about whether to book the cruise line's tour of Caesarea. I knew I didn't want to visit the usual Galilee sites. I knew I was coming back to Israel within 6 months. I didn't want to pay the ridiculous amount requested for the overnight tour with stay in Jerusalem (just as an aside, that tour alone, for a solo passenger, cost as much as my entire 10-day trip to Israel 5 months later....)

 

Anyway, I was very worried there wouldn't be enough people that would just want to see Caesarea, so I ended up booking my own private tour for a full day (just me), rather than risk sitting on the ship with NO tour and NO options. As it turned out, it was one of the best tours I've ever done.

 

All this is a long way of saying that you have to take responsibility for your own choices when deciding what to do in a given port. Not being aware that HAL could and would cancel your transportation option due to lack of participation is not the same as HAL screwing you....

[Jade13]

 

I often have very particular things that I want to see and do on port stops -- and usually these don't coincide with what a majority of other cruisers want to do. For example, on Westerdam last year, I obsessed and obsessed about whether to book the cruise line's tour of Caesarea. I knew I didn't want to visit the usual Galilee sites. I knew I was coming back to Israel within 6 months. I didn't want to pay the ridiculous amount requested for the overnight tour with stay in Jerusalem (just as an aside, that tour alone, for a solo passenger, cost as much as my entire 10-day trip to Israel 5 months later....)

 

Anyway, I was very worried there wouldn't be enough people that would just want to see Caesarea, so I ended up booking my own private tour for a full day (just me), rather than risk sitting on the ship with NO tour and NO options. As it turned out, it was one of the best tours I've ever done.

 

 

.

 

Interesting example. I am undecided on what to do from Haifa on a Azamara cruise because I have an interest in Caesarea but the cruise line does not have a tour going there. We are booked on a tour to Megiddo because it was 50% off so less than what we can do on our own, but it is listed as very strenuous, so if a tour gets canceled this will be the one. I guess the question will be whether Megiddo and Caesarea (and Akko) can be done in one day.

 

Btw, HAL's tours are so much more expensive than RCCL/CelebrityAzamara. Their overnight Jerusalem to Haifa is about $800.00 per person.

[kazu]

I do think the title of this thread is over the top. Basically the op booked a shore excursion (whether it be a transfer or whatever) and due to lack of participation, it was cancelled. that is the same condition on all shore excursions.

 

I'm glad things worked out for the op, but I think the title is unfair to say the least. It's hard to know what HAL could do as it would depend upon the tour operator.

 

Ship happens - all the time. At least the op was able to make the best of it, but I don't think the fault lies with HAL.:)

[CtheW0rld]

What about the others who had booked transfer only? Were there enough seats for all of them who had the transfer cancelled? Should not all of them or none of them been able to go on the other excursion bus? If there were not enough seats for all, why should one be accomodated but not the others? ...

 

 

if there were a lot of people, the tour wouldn't have been cancelled. if anything they could have used a smaller van.

 

Please tell us which port, and which excursion/transfer was canceled and which one you joined (and difference in price)? ...

 

it was probably malaga, spain. alhambra is about 2.5 - 3 hours (each way) from the port. i rarely take a ship's tour, but that was outside of my comfort zone for a DIY tour.

[IRL_Joanie]

HAL did not screw you. You booked an independent tour and when HAL cancelled the transfer due to lack of participation you thought they should bargain with you and sell you the excursion at a lesser price since you already had your tickets. That's like saying I will bring my own food for the cruise so only charge me for the cabin.

 

Absolutely the GREATEST Analogy!!

 

Joanie

[whogo]

I find this on HAL's terms and conditions for shore excursions:

 

All onboard cancellations are subject to at least a 10% cancellation fee.

OP, did you receive your 10% cancellation fee? http://www.hollandamerica.com/cruise-destinations/ShoreExcursions.action?selectedNavElement=Terms%20&%20Conditions