RCCL threatens to pull out of cozumel

[praline3001]

I understand what you are saying but am suggesting that you reassess your feelings. If everyone of us shared your opinion and eventually the cruise lines stopped visiting Labadee and making their contributions to Haiti, how would this help anyone? Do you really feel less guilty because you are enjoying that drink and food on beach on an island miles away from Haiti, or is it a case of "out of sight, out of mind"? Nobody is rubbing your face in the tragic conditions in Haiti when you visit Labadee, but your visit is doing at least a small something to improve conditions there. Your absence won't do a thing to make things better, but it seems as though being able to enjoy a guilt-free vacation is a priority.

 

People make statements on here and comments about people when they do not know the person or their personal experience. In your post you make it sounds like my guilt free vacation is a priority and I need to understand how tourism works without knowing me from a hill of beans. LOL

 

I live in New Orleans. I lived through one of the worst natural disasters our country had ever seen. My entire city was leveled. My Walmart was totaled. My local fav restaurant? It wasn't just destroyed ... it was MIA! We never found the building.

 

I know what tourism can do to rebuild a city. I watched the first tourist come back and was happy for those in the service industry. It meant we were going to survive after all.

 

So no, I do not shirk my social responsibilities and I do know the importance of tourism. I also know myself pretty well. There is no way I could bite into that burger knowing their were people starving so close to me and my burger. For me, I have seen how disaster strikes a city and how food is a high priority. In my own city ~ while helping with rescues I barely ever ate. When food was provided for the rescue crews I generally handed mine over to a kid who needed it a lot more then my chunky butt.

 

However I do not fault anyone for how they handle the situation. Everyone is different and that is what makes the world go around and around :D

 

But judging someone without knowing them or their circumstances is needlessly hurtful.

[ssb]

Follow the money!

The issue is over the dollars or pesos!

 

Local Mexicans want the cruisers money to wind up in the local hands!

RCCL wants the money to wind up in RCCL hands!

 

It’s about control over where the cruisers

wind up going once off the ships

therefore and where they spend their dollars or converted pesos!

 

Its been a controversy issue forever!

Now the Mexican's are forcing the issue!

It's it’s negotiation time!!!!

 

 

Mexican locals are upset about Cruise lines controlling the piers, docks and areas around the docks and who’s controlling the cruisers as potential customers.... spending their money or converted pesos in the cruise line lines pier shops, bars and restaurants.....

rather than going into town in cabs or walking across the streets

and spending it with the Mexican locals!

 

 

It’s also why the cruise lines are building better and newer ships with all the perks,

to try and get you to spend your dollars on the ships!

[praline3001]

Follow the money!

The issue is over the dollars or pesos!

 

Local Mexicans want the cruisers money to wind up in the local hands!

RCCL wants the money to wind up in RCCL hands!

 

It’s about control over where the cruisers

wind up going once off the ships

therefore and where they spend their dollars or converted pesos!

 

Its been a controversy issue forever!

Now the Mexican's are forcing the issue!

It's it’s negotiation time!!!!

 

 

Mexican locals are upset about Cruise lines controlling the piers, docks and areas around the docks and who’s controlling the cruisers as potential customers.... spending their money or converted pesos in the cruise line lines pier shops, bars and restaurants.....

rather than going into town in cabs or walking across the streets

and spending it with the Mexican locals!

 

 

It’s also why the cruise lines are building better and newer ships with all the perks,

to try and get you to spend your dollars on the ships!

 

This does bug me. Not your statement as I am going to guess its closer to the truth then we know. It bugs me that locals would feel that way. Any good business owner that has an absence of tourist will sit down and ask themselves, "What am I doing wrong? What can I do to change and attract more tourist?" Playing the blame game doesn't do them any good.

 

We tourist would very much enjoy going to local places! That is why we are there in the first place. If the locals did more research as to why the tourist don't cross the street more then work on those issues they would have much better results.

[suekay]

There are 3 types of people when it comes to Cozumel.

 

Group 1 - people who love Cozumel. I'm in that group. We went to Mr Sancho's last time we were there. What a fun day! We paid for all-you-can-eat/drink and thought we got a good value for our money. We also did the tequila tasting (the same one that Samantha Brown did on her travel show) and some horseback riding. What a great day.

 

Group 2 - people who couldn't care less about Cozumel. This group of people has a different point of view, but one which is just as valid as Group 1's.

 

Group 3 - people who could care less about Cozumel. This group of people wants to be in Group 2 but their grammar forces them into Group 1.

 

You've just clarified something that has puzzled me for years. In England we say "couldn't care less", but I've seen so many US posters writing "could care less" that I thought it was like tomayto-tomarto. On the same note please tell me.....is it really "dinning" room in the US? (not being smart, just curious)

 

Sorry to hijack the thread:o

[reallyitsmema]

Suekay, it is couldn't care less and dining. And as far as the threadjack, it was already jacked, unfortunately, so I wouldn't worry about it.

[Lady Chew]

People make statements on here and comments about people when they do not know the person or their personal experience. In your post you make it sounds like my guilt free vacation is a priority and I need to understand how tourism works without knowing me from a hill of beans. LOL

 

I live in New Orleans. I lived through one of the worst natural disasters our country had ever seen. My entire city was leveled. My Walmart was totaled. My local fav restaurant? It wasn't just destroyed ... it was MIA! We never found the building.

 

I know what tourism can do to rebuild a city. I watched the first tourist come back and was happy for those in the service industry. It meant we were going to survive after all.

 

So no, I do not shirk my social responsibilities and I do know the importance of tourism. I also know myself pretty well. There is no way I could bite into that burger knowing their were people starving so close to me and my burger. For me, I have seen how disaster strikes a city and how food is a high priority. In my own city ~ while helping with rescues I barely ever ate. When food was provided for the rescue crews I generally handed mine over to a kid who needed it a lot more then my chunky butt.

 

However I do not fault anyone for how they handle the situation. Everyone is different and that is what makes the world go around and around :D

 

But judging someone without knowing them or their circumstances is needlessly hurtful.

 

well, yes, you're right ... BUT - from what I've read, there is still a great deal to be done in New Orleans & the surrounding areas. There is still suffering, poverty & hardship, maybe getting better, but still there. And you want tourists there, right, to help? You want them in the local restaurants & hotels, taking tours, etc ... creating jobs, spending their money ...

It's the same in Haiti, and everywhere else.

[jimp1266]

Cozumel was my least favourite place, I don't think anyone will be missing much by skipping Cozumel.

I couldn't disagree more. As a SCUBA diver, Cozumel has some of the best diving in the northern Caribbean. It would be a huge loss for us to see them pull out of this port.

[praline3001]

well, yes, you're right ... BUT - from what I've read, there is still a great deal to be done in New Orleans & the surrounding areas. There is still suffering, poverty & hardship, maybe getting better, but still there. And you want tourists there, right, to help? You want them in the local restaurants & hotels, taking tours, etc ... creating jobs, spending their money ...

 

It's the same in Haiti, and everywhere else.

 

The best way for me to answer your question is with an experience with tourist in New Orleans after the disaster.

 

There was a very business savy tour group in our city. They developed a tour in order to salvage their own company. They charged tourist to visit the worst hit areas of our city. It was called the "After Katrina tour" or something to that effect ..I can't remember the exact name. Anyway, they would take these tourist on tour buses and stop in front of people's homes. These were residents that had not bathed in 3 weeks due to no water or electricity. They were gutting their entire lives out of their home. That is an experience I hope nobody here ever has to do. Can you imagine sifting through mud and gunk to find your child's baby book?

Now, these tourist in the group sat on their bus (and some cases got out) and took photos of these homes and wrecked families. How would you feel if a bunch of clean, well dressed tourist were taking your photo when you were at your worst and commenting to each other about your appearance as if you were an animal in the zoo? For some strange reason these tourist were shocked when the residents started flipping them the bird! "We are just there to help the tourism for your city. Wow how rude!"

 

So even though I do agree tourism is what rebuilds a city many times the real victims ~ the residents ~ do not see any of this benefit. It does generate more income into the area but many times at the price of the residents .. if that makes sense?

 

But as I have said many times ~ I do not fault anyone for enjoying there time there. I just know how I am and I wouldn't be able to do it.

[ryano]

. I just know how I am and I wouldn't be able to do it.

 

You are a compassionate person and there is nothing wrong with that :)

 

With that said though, I imagine EVERY port you will go to on a Caribbean cruise, while maybe not suffering a natural disaster lately, has severe poverty and suffering outside the areas of what we as tourists there generally see.

 

What is the difference? :) I have never been to Labadee but from what I understand, is it not totally seperated from Haiti itself? I mean is it really like you can walk to a fence and see all the suffering and damage? Or is it removed from all of that? I do not know.

 

Personally i would love to go there! It looks much better in pictures to me than Coco cay does.

[PH8]

I remember on the first cruise I went on with Carnival, we docked at Calica and most everyone was going to Playa Del Carmen. Calica was nothing more than a rock quarry with a big dock for a cruise ship to tie up at.

 

I suppose thats just a Carnival ship "port" only though?

maybe so.........just know that we tendered.....

 

and funny thing,the day before we were at Cozumel......left there and spent over 12 hours just floating around..

[lady_cruiser]

I would love to see Royal go to Costa Maya. Out of nine cruises I have been to Cozumel seven times. And since I don't fly and don't have time to spend three extra days to drive to a Florida port (that is three days each way) my options are limited of where I leave from; New Orleans or Galveston.

 

And since I love cruising Cozumel is just one of the things I need to put up with. And if I have to choose between staying home and not going to Cozumel or cruising to Cozumel, CRUISING will win out each time.

[Ladysilver]

Cozumel was my least favourite place, I don't think anyone will be missing much by skipping Cozumel.

 

 

I know I wont...Been there 3 times. Our next cruise stops there also and we'll probably stay on and enjoy the ship. :p

[CENTEX CRUISER]

Works for me ! :)

Costa Maya?

 

Playa del Carmen?

[MrsPete]

Cozumel was my least favourite place, I don't think anyone will be missing much by skipping Cozumel.

Disagree! We like Cozumel very much and would be disappointed to lose it as a port. Between diving, beach clubs and the Myan ruins, it offers a wider variety of activities than most of the other islands.

 

Having said that, I would like to try Costa Maya -- but I'd like to try it in addition to Cozumel, not in place of it.

From what I've read they cannot tender from Oasis and Allure, besides, the time it would take to tender approx 6,000 passengers - it would be time to return to the ship when everyone gets off.

Well, that does stand to reason. How many "tendering docks" -- my term, probably not right at all -- do these huge ships have? I think Freedom class ships have two; surely they could've built the monster-sized ships with three, and then tendering would've been possible.

 

Personally, we like a cruise with a good mixture of island stops and at-sea days. That's why we have no interest in Oasis or Allure. They make fewer stops.

I do wonder about the tendering vs docks. I would think that places like the Cayman's would build their port up to be able to accept the larger boats. At over 10,000 guest extra per week (for both Allure and Oasis) that is a ton of tourism dollars generated per year. I would think an appropriate dock would pay for itself in less then a year? Maybe not less then a year but certainly would pay for itself in the short term.

Thing is, Cozumel needs the tourist dollar, the Caymen Islands do not. I've read that banking is their biggest industry, and they do not want to actively court the tourist dollar and do not want more crowds arriving via cruise ship.

[kcool]

you are right. there are a lot of first time cruisers out there that have not been to these ports

[praline3001]

Thing is, Cozumel needs the tourist dollar, the Caymen Islands do not. I've read that banking is their biggest industry, and they do not want to actively court the tourist dollar and do not want more crowds arriving via cruise ship.

 

I guess that was a bad example. I meant any of the smaller Caribbean tourist ports. Does anyone know what the budget cost is to build any port up to accept the larger ships like the Allure or Oasis?

 

I am curious about the ball park figure budget wise.

[praline3001]

You are a compassionate person and there is nothing wrong with that :)

 

With that said though, I imagine EVERY port you will go to on a Caribbean cruise, while maybe not suffering a natural disaster lately, has severe poverty and suffering outside the areas of what we as tourists there generally see.

 

What is the difference? :) I have never been to Labadee but from what I understand, is it not totally seperated from Haiti itself? I mean is it really like you can walk to a fence and see all the suffering and damage? Or is it removed from all of that? I do not know.

 

Personally i would love to go there! It looks much better in pictures to me than Coco cay does.

 

That is very true there are many poor Caribbean islands. But for me its different in that ..well.. its their daily life. They are there and have some stability in their way of life. They want and need us there to better themselves. They are not living in displacement camps trying to dig through and find their home. They are not starving to death in the streets or dying of thirst as it is in Haiti. There is poor and then there is desperation.

No, you are correct that there is a mighty large fence with tons of security. Guest are not allowed to go into Haiti. For me its more of a mental image while sipping on my drink or whatnot. I would not be able to get those images out of my head. :(

[sail2sea]

good! Cozumel is so overdone for so long! Every friggin' western route goes to Cozumel. it would be good for it to be skipped for a change.

[temple1]

Sorry, I rarely post to topic without reading most of the responses but I really had to put my 2 cents in.

 

 

Got to be honest, I am not a fan of ports in Mexico. I used to be long ago but the cartels have ruined Mexico as a fun vacation spot. Mexico is the only country where the police wear the masks and the criminals walk around freely. (I saw one of the many Chief of polices say that on a documentary..weeks before he was assassinated by drug cartels).

 

Many tourist feel the same way I do. Very few people actually book a trip at a resort in Mexico nowadays. The vast majority of tourism is through 1 day visits via cruise lines. Cozumel better be very careful it doesn't bite the hand that feeds it. Their tourism industry is in extreme pain as is.

 

 

I am also not a fan of Labadee. I do not fault anyone at all for enjoying that port. I do keep up with the news and events around the world and try to be as conscious about world politics as I can. For me, there is no way I could sit in my cabana, sipping on umbrella drinks, knowing what I know about the country and what is outside those gates. Knowing me, I would become physically ill. That does NOT mean I think anyone who goes is heartless HA HA I wish I could go as it does limit our cruise time. I just know how I am and wouldn't be able to enjoy myself.

 

I stick with Eastern Caribbean :D

 

I do wonder about the tendering vs docks. I would think that places like the Cayman's would build their port up to be able to accept the larger boats. At over 10,000 guest extra per week (for both Allure and Oasis) that is a ton of tourism dollars generated per year. I would think an appropriate dock would pay for itself in less then a year? Maybe not less then a year but certainly would pay for itself in the short term.

 

With your sensibilities you probably sit at home and don't venture out the door often. I go downtown or even to the pocket park near my home I see homeless people, I provide transportation to court for battered women from our local shelter, I stories of rape and shootings in my county, I read about children in my country who do not have enough to eat

 

Hmmm, maybe I should move to Shangri La I can't think of any place that doesn't have problems.

 

Way too many parts of Mexico have problems with violence but the tourist areas are still relatively safe. Haiti has major problems and have had them since they won their independence from France. I think it is wonderful that RCCL and by way of cruise fares we are able to provide jobs, schooling and other forms of assistance to the people of Haiti.

[praline3001]

I couldn't disagree more. As a SCUBA diver, Cozumel has some of the best diving in the northern Caribbean. It would be a huge loss for us to see them pull out of this port.

 

I wanted to ask you a quick question! I am not a diver but would like to try to get licensed "one day". Is Cozumel that much better? In my non knowing anything about diving opinion I would think Costa Maya would be better? The water seems more blue and is more clear?

 

I have never been out into the scuba diving areas so not sure.

[dfgf]

[

You've just clarified something that has puzzled me for years. In England we say "couldn't care less", but I've seen so many US posters writing "could care less" that I thought it was like tomayto-tomarto. On the same note please tell me.....is it really "dinning" room in the US? (not being smart, just curious)

 

Sorry to hijack the thread:o

 

The British have it right - it's "couldn't care less". "Could care less" is an unfortunate American colloquialism.

[BeachChik]

I am not saying the aide is wrong. I am saying ME personally... as an individual couldn't enjoy myself there without feeling extremely guilty.

 

You probably shouldn't visit Belize, Jamaica, Costa Rica ...

 

While you do have the right to your own opinion, I guess I don't understand it. Many countries have extreme poverty. These countries depend on tourism. To say you wont visit them out of guilt doesn't make sense. If you do a search you will see how much royal has pumped into the economy in Haiti. And they drop off supplies when the ships stops there. We saw them unloading pallets of miscellaneous items when we were there. All the people that work in labadee are locals.

 

We did a private tour in Honduras. We drove through some areas that was clearly an area where the very poor lived. Houses were falling apart. Because my hubby always wants to know the history of each place we visit, he asked tons of questions. We were told at one time the country lived of the fishing industry. Now that is no longer the case and they depend on tourism, specifically the cruise ships. He told us when a ship misses the port its a hit for everyone as that is thousands of people that now wont be spending their money in their country. The point of my long winded explanation is that many of these poorer countries depend on cruise ship passengers and the money they will spend there.

 

I'm not belittling your opinion, just trying to understand the logic.

[maxxedout2]

We do many 4 dayers on Liberty OTS.

 

The fact they stop in Coz...well, we'd take Calica

or Costa Maya for a change, no problema.

 

:cool:

 

 

As far as the Oasis/Allure on a 7 day schedule....just

make it another sea day.

[praline3001]

You probably shouldn't visit Belize, Jamaica, Costa Rica ...

 

While you do have the right to your own opinion, I guess I don't understand it. Many countries have extreme poverty. These countries depend on tourism. To say you wont visit them out of guilt doesn't make sense. If you do a search you will see how much royal has pumped into the economy in Haiti. And they drop off supplies when the ships stops there. We saw them unloading pallets of miscellaneous items when we were there. All the people that work in labadee are locals.

 

We did a private tour in Honduras. We drove through some areas that was clearly an area where the very poor lived. Houses were falling apart. Because my hubby always wants to know the history of each place we visit, he asked tons of questions. We were told at one time the country lived of the fishing industry. Now that is no longer the case and they depend on tourism, specifically the cruise ships. He told us when a ship misses the port its a hit for everyone as that is thousands of people that now wont be spending their money in their country. The point of my long winded explanation is that many of these poorer countries depend on cruise ship passengers and the money they will spend there.

 

I'm not belittling your opinion, just trying to understand the logic.

 

It is correct that RC has put a lot of aide into Haiti and in no way would I try to make that fact less important then it is. Its great they do offer aide.

 

However what you are talking about is vastly different then the set up at Labadee. RC gives the Government $6 per person who goes to shore. The food/drinks... well basically everything comes directly from the ship rather then locally. They do this for safety reasons. RC hand picks a few locals to sell at the stalls on their property. The vast majority ...well really only a few people actually see the money you spend while there. As you know, the seapass card works there because everything goes through RC and not locally.

 

The government of Haiti is corrupt and nobody can deny it. They are terrible to their people. It is a huge leap of faith that the money RC gives the government (the $6 pp) goes to helping those residents. For me ... its too big of a leap of faith.

 

See the difference? When you and hubby go, you are interacting with the residents. You are speaking and buying directly from those that live there. It isn't the case with Labadee. It is a private RC resort. There tourism money is not spread out like in other places ~ by locals.

 

So though we do differ in opinions, comparing the port in Haiti to other ports where there are no large fences or security standing guard to keep the locals away is kind of unfair.

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand why RC keeps the security on hand. Haiti is not a stable country. They do it in order to keep their guest safe.

[klingoncruiser]

For all of us who "hate" this port or that...(I don't like GC or Key West) RCL is working hard on building ships that are the destination. Soon, it will be a 7 day cruise and no port if they keep that up.:D

 

FWIW.... I am a port person and they do to matter. I could care less about the ship. I will NOT go on a cruise who's ports I don't care for. (Vote with dollars) For those of us grumbling about the Caribbean, pity the poor people on the west coast with only 3 ports to choose from in 7 days. (And most would love to go back to them if there were only a ship to take them.)