HAL is starting to lose me

[kazu]

Kazu,

 

That poster totally misread my post. I did NOT imply Regent was a better deal. I said from what I remember, it costs $100-$200/day more than Prinsendam. Again, I just did a rough estimate to see if it would be better to sail Regent in Europe, than Prinsendam. For us, Prinsendam is the way to go in Europe. I like how their itineraries are improved upon each year. On Regent, the excursions are included. Much of the time, we like to do our own thing, or even go with a group of rollcall members. So, we would be paying for something we might not be using on Regent. For us, we don't mind paying extra in the Caribbean. That's when we can truly enjoy the ship and stay up late at night in the lounges. We use the prepaid excursions to snorkel. Europe is so port intensive, we definitely would not want to imbibe and take advantage of included drinks/wine as much!

 

I get so annoyed at posters who don't read and then want to put words in my mouth. Rereading my post, there was one word in the sentence about Regent costing more than Prinsendam that the poster misread.

 

Linda

 

Hey thanks Linda - glad you are still a Prinsendam fan:) I'm with you - I don't like ship tours most times - so why get on one if it's not our cup of tea? That's where Regent and some of the others lose it for me.

Love our itinerary and happily booking private excursions (pretty much all done). Really looking forward to our cruise next year and turning 60:eek: in Le Havre:)

Fair winds and following seas to you on whatever line you may be on - hopefully someday we will be on the same cruise.

[LindaM]

Linda - I always find your posts interesting - I was really intrigued by Regent - BUT the itineraries I saw were just blah! I guess we are still at the stage that we want to do different things. Right now free airfare is not attractive as long as I can use my FF miles - when they run out - then we will be looking and re-evaluating. Thanks for the info.

 

for now, the P'dam had the best itinerary for what we wanted so we will head off on her next year (oh yes, and my little cheap, last minute escape on the Westerdam next week):D

 

Prinsendam is my favorite. We tried Ocean Princess in the Med in Sept. It's about the same size, but no where nearly as elegant. The food was great---I gained 7 pounds, which upsets me to no end. Azamara has 2 of the same fleet Ocean Princess came from. If there ever comes a time that Prinsendam doesn't have an itinerary that we haven't done, we may try Azamara. But, Prinsendam is ALWAYS first. I am waiting for January and the 2014 schedule to come out. I am hoping they repeat the cruise that hits the Meteora region in Greece. I think the only way we would do Regent(not in the Caribbean) would be in the Orient or Australia where we have never been, and would do a ship shore excursion daily.

[cruisemom42]

Hey thanks Linda - glad you are still a Prinsendam fan:) I'm with you - I don't like ship tours most times - so why get on one if it's not our cup of tea? That's where Regent and some of the others lose it for me.

Love our itinerary and happily booking private excursions (pretty much all done). Really looking forward to our cruise next year and turning 60:eek: in Le Havre:)

Fair winds and following seas to you on whatever line you may be on - hopefully someday we will be on the same cruise.

 

Keep in mind that the tours offered on Regent (I'm guessing, haven't been) and other lines like the ones I've been on -- Voyages to Antiquity, Swan Hellenic -- may be very different than the ones offered on mass market lines.

 

For one thing, they are smaller by about half.

 

For another, there are absolutely NO shopping stops. It's all about the sites or activity, not a chance to recoup money. :rolleyes:

 

And finally, often the ship lecturers will also be along on the tours and will add additional insight or information to what you are seeing. This was invaluable on my recent Swan Hellenic cruise. For example, I took a tour of the prehistoric temples of Malta. One of the lecturers on our trip was a professor who had actually been involved in the field work there. He would let the regular guides give their info and then provide great additional insights/background to what we were seeing.

[kazu]

Keep in mind that the tours offered on Regent (I'm guessing, haven't been) and other lines like the ones I've been on -- Voyages to Antiquity, Swan Hellenic -- may be very different than the ones offered on mass market lines.

 

For one thing, they are smaller by about half.

 

For another, there are absolutely NO shopping stops. It's all about the sites or activity, not a chance to recoup money. :rolleyes:

 

And finally, often the ship lecturers will also be along on the tours and will add additional insight or information to what you are seeing. This was invaluable on my recent Swan Hellenic cruise. For example, I took a tour of the prehistoric temples of Malta. One of the lecturers on our trip was a professor who had actually been involved in the field work there. He would let the regular guides give their info and then provide great additional insights/background to what we were seeing.

 

I can only go by a couple of friends who have told me and reports I have read - they reported that these were not much smaller than what we are used to on the mass market lines. One of their big disappointments! Maybe it varies from ship to ship:confused:

 

If they were the size of HAL's Vatican Secrets tour - that would be ideal (8):)

[Hawaiidan]

I have put the pen to paper on every cruise I've taken. I read people saying that Regent & Oceania are the same price or even cheaper than HAL if you take into account everything included. Unless I'm really missing something, I just cannot see it, not even close. I have done the math, run the numbers, did the what ifs and made an honest effort to figure out how I can make a cruise on Regent or Oceania come even close to the cost of HAL. For the cost of a similar cruise on Regent, I could book a Penthouse on HAL, stay stark raving drunk the entire cruise and still pay less.

 

I find cruises on Regent and Oceania, when all is considered, to price out right about double of what I pay on HAL. I really wish they were a little closer in price because I would have abandoned HAL years ago. And, quite frankly, I may be ready to abandon them now, cost be dammed.

 

I don't even want to talk about Crystal, Silverseas and Seabourn since they are even further apart. Although, I did do one cruise on Seabourn and it was a superb cruising experience. I only wish I could afford to cruise on that line exclusively.

 

Well, It works for me...on cruises from 10 day to 43 day. Holland is way more expensive 30% higher on the 43 day than Oceania. both apples to apples in the lowest cat. veranda cabin. I simply take all the costs for the trip from leaving the house to returning that I would have to spend out of pocket. That to me is the cost of the cruise..

I could beat Oceania if I stayed in an inside MM but not in a veranda.. You might breakeven in ocean view ..

 

Air fare is huge for me living in Hawaii Flying to Maimi in the winter costs 990-1100 rt. Air fare Hawaii to Hong kong to meet my next Holland America cruise is $1750 one way pp and $700 one way coach LA back to Hawai in december !

One additional value is asthetic... Most ships the Holland has are far larger and offer far less extras. Sailing with 700 to 1200 is far different than in a crowd of 2000.

Price aside, the overall value of Holland America, even on Princendam can not begin to equal the value for the $ on Oceania and to a lesser extent Regent.

[moniquet]

All the cruise lines are nickel and diming now. Tried most of the other lines an still prefer HAL. Lets face it, cruising isn't what it was 10 years ago. In the effort to keep prices low they have all dummed down. At least these days we can get a deluxe suite when 10 yrs ago we would have only got a balcony for the equivalent price:)

[kazu]

Hopefully, without the 'noro' this time, eh Jacqui? :D:p

 

My you have a good memory - no matter what - we'll take this ship - I never saw NORO handled so well as on this ship - but, yes, without NORO would be a lot better:):)

If you like - we've never been on the Queen of HOrns -I'll be doing a Never say Never thread shortly - I have a lot of words to 'eat'.:eek:

[travelingteacher2010]

I agree that HAL might be the best deal for budget travellers like us. We're looking forward to our 2nd HAL cruise on March Break. It's a 14 day southern caribbean on Maasdam and for $1400 including taxes with free airfare using points, I think it's a great deal. Yes, it's an inside cabin but at $100 a day each for a comfy bed, great food, transportation to all of the ports,and all that the Maasdam has to offer, this is super holiday value for us. The opportunity to bring unlimited wine and bottled water on board (unlike other cruise lines) also adds to the savings.

 

On two previous NCL cruises we often found the MDR food less than acceptable and ended up paying a surcharge for decent food in the French and Italian restaurants. We like the fact that the MDR food on the Maasdam was consistently good and we didn't have to pay a surcharge to eat well, although we really enjoyed our dinners at HAL's two specialty restaurants as well. We're hoping that our second cruise on HAL lives up to our expectations again. Can't wait!

[cruisemom42]

I can only go by a couple of friends who have told me and reports I have read - they reported that these were not much smaller than what we are used to on the mass market lines. One of their big disappointments! Maybe it varies from ship to ship:confused:

 

If they were the size of HAL's Vatican Secrets tour - that would be ideal (8):)

 

On Swan Hellenic and VTA they were usually 20-25 people, as I say, I can't answer for Regent. On VTA, everyone is provided with their own personal "whisperer" for the length of the cruise. This allows you to hear the guide from any reasonable distance if you want to wander a bit or take photos.

 

But it sounds like you are happy with HAL. Enjoy your upcoming cruises. My parents are recently home from the Prinsendam and still had a very favorable report although they did note she was due for a drydock and some "freshening up," which was scheduled shortly after.

[LindaM]

Hey thanks Linda - glad you are still a Prinsendam fan:) I'm with you - I don't like ship tours most times - so why get on one if it's not our cup of tea? That's where Regent and some of the others lose it for me.

Love our itinerary and happily booking private excursions (pretty much all done). Really looking forward to our cruise next year and turning 60:eek: in Le Havre:)

Fair winds and following seas to you on whatever line you may be on - hopefully someday we will be on the same cruise.

 

Hopefully, we will be on the same Prinsendam cruise someday!! Would love to meet you "in person". In 2011, we happened to sail through the Kiel Canal/Baltic with 2 couples we had met on Prinsendam in 2009. In 2013, we are sailing with another couple from that cruise. At any rate, our paths hopefully will cross one day. We are close in age---I turned (gulp) 61 yesterday!!

[kazu]

On Swan Hellenic and VTA they were usually 20-25 people, as I say, I can't answer for Regent. On VTA, everyone is provided with their own personal "whisperer" for the length of the cruise. This allows you to hear the guide from any reasonable distance if you want to wander a bit or take photos.

 

But it sounds like you are happy with HAL. Enjoy your upcoming cruises. My parents are recently home from the Prinsendam and still had a very favorable report although they did note she was due for a drydock and some "freshening up," which was scheduled shortly after.

 

thanks so much - at 20 - 25 people I think I would still prefer private tours or diy. but I could change my tune when I try another line;) and yes, that is probably down for the future:)

But for now, the Prinsendam is our little happy space - we`ll be on her after the drydock so hopefully all will be good. We loved her last year - the crew is absolutely incredible:) thanks again - you always have great advice on the ports boards as well as here:)

[pms4104]

Some random thoughts on HAL cutbacks ... and why we're moving on:

 

Just off the Noordam ... never in 11 mornings did I see the OJ squeezer machine working, neither of them. When I asked for fresh-squeezed, I was given a glass of separated juice (that can happen with juice made from concentrate, but I doubt fresh-squeezed separates). The response to my "it's separated" comment: "Just stir it up" says the Lido person who then proceeded to stir it for me. So, not sure that fresh-squeezed is available at any price anymore ... or, at least, on certain ships.

 

The flowers, while lovely on embarkation day, were not replaced thruout the trip. As the sailing progressed, the arrangements got smaller and smaller ... I guess the floral patrol came thru in the middle of the night and removed the dead and dying. No fresh arrangements came out to replace the diminishing display.

 

After two nights in the MDR, with fixed seating, we moved on to other venues. The MDR service was horrible ... half-way thru prime rib, the servers came around with horseradish sauce and sour cream for the baked potatoes. Well, and the prime rib (all three who ordered it at our table) was thin, dry, and could not be cut with a steak knife. Filled out a comment card about the MDR service and food, and got a message on the cabin phone 3 days later ... the staff member never attempted to reconnect in person.

 

Bar soap in the cabin shower? Doesn't exist anymore. Elemis body wash -- don't men just love that? -- and a bar of fig and olive soap for the sink. I asked for a bar of shower soap and my steward said it's no longer available at all.

 

While all of the above are little things, and we didn't all these trivialities to spoil our trip, I do believe that HAL is cutting back and it's noticeable to those who have sailed with the company for a decade or more. Maybe that's why HAL is so anxious to cater to new passengers ... they don't know what kind of service or ambiance ever was an integral part of HAL in the past.

 

Lots of other little things that convinced us this likely was our last trip with HAL ... as I put on my comment card, "the cutbacks are noticeable and unacceptable."

[Cruising-along]

*note to self* bring a bar of bath soap for our Noordam cruise in March.

I don't like liquid body wash either. :(

[kazu]

DH is very fussy on his soap - so we always bring our own -that's not a biggie to us:)

[Krazy Kruizers]

Some random thoughts on HAL cutbacks ... and why we're moving on:

 

Just off the Noordam ... never in 11 mornings did I see the OJ squeezer machine working, neither of them. When I asked for fresh-squeezed, I was given a glass of separated juice (that can happen with juice made from concentrate, but I doubt fresh-squeezed separates). The response to my "it's separated" comment: "Just stir it up" says the Lido person who then proceeded to stir it for me. So, not sure that fresh-squeezed is available at any price anymore ... or, at least, on certain ships.

 

The flowers, while lovely on embarkation day, were not replaced thruout the trip. As the sailing progressed, the arrangements got smaller and smaller ... I guess the floral patrol came thru in the middle of the night and removed the dead and dying. No fresh arrangements came out to replace the diminishing display.

 

After two nights in the MDR, with fixed seating, we moved on to other venues. The MDR service was horrible ... half-way thru prime rib, the servers came around with horseradish sauce and sour cream for the baked potatoes. Well, and the prime rib (all three who ordered it at our table) was thin, dry, and could not be cut with a steak knife. Filled out a comment card about the MDR service and food, and got a message on the cabin phone 3 days later ... the staff member never attempted to reconnect in person.

 

Bar soap in the cabin shower? Doesn't exist anymore. Elemis body wash -- don't men just love that? -- and a bar of fig and olive soap for the sink. I asked for a bar of shower soap and my steward said it's no longer available at all.

 

While all of the above are little things, and we didn't all these trivialities to spoil our trip, I do believe that HAL is cutting back and it's noticeable to those who have sailed with the company for a decade or more. Maybe that's why HAL is so anxious to cater to new passengers ... they don't know what kind of service or ambiance ever was an integral part of HAL in the past.

I absultely agree with you!!

 

Lots of other little things that convinced us this likely was our last trip with HAL ... as I put on my comment card, "the cutbacks are noticeable and unacceptable."

 

The soap dispensers have been in the shower/tub area for quite some time now. We used to get 2 bars of soap -- no longer.

Once HAL started to use the Emelis products, we started to bring our own shampoo and soaps.

We started to cruise on HAL in 1996 while still cruising on other lines. So have certainly seen a lot of changes -- especially the 4 - 5 years.

[Cruising-along]

DH is very fussy on his soap - so we always bring our own -that's not a biggie to us:)

 

 

We aren't fussy, I just don't like liquid shower gel. No biggie for us either, I've already added it to my list. :D

[RuthC]

While all of the above are little things, and we didn't all these trivialities to spoil our trip, I do believe that HAL is cutting back and it's noticeable to those who have sailed with the company for a decade or more. Maybe that's why HAL is so anxious to cater to new passengers ... they don't know what kind of service or ambiance ever was an integral part of HAL in the past.

Now there's a point well worth pondering. I do believe you are on to something here.

[Bearnaise]

You might want to reread my post. I said that HAL IS much less a day than Regent. I know HAL is a better deal. Please read before you comment!!

 

Since you brought it up, I don't know how you could say HAL's drinks are better---you can get ANY drink on Regent. There is no set list. To tell you the truth, Oosterdam does not impress me. I wouldn't take it even if I got the deal of the century. To each his own. At any rate, you made a HUGE mistake by not reading my post accurately. Except that you used the opportunity to voice your opinion of Regent! I have to say you are the first that I've read about on CC who feels that way. I assume you also hate Prinsendam---am I right???

Mea culpa for somehow offending you. Obviously you're the type to easily offend.

 

I don't hate any cruise lines. I was merely voicing my opinion that for me HAL is a better deal than Regent even if I have to pay for my espresso. Sorry that opinion offended you so.

 

BTW, re-reading my post, I see that I was directly responding to the portion of your post that I quoted. If you can't handle your own opinions, please don't opine.

[Hlitner]

Here is a comparison that says a lot about HA vs Celebrity (we enjoy both lines). On the 14 day Dec 1 Celebrity Eclipse Caribbean cruise (great itinerary) a balcony cabin ranged from about $4200 up to $6500 (Aqua Class) (total cost for 2)and the cruise was sold-out without any major discounting. Meanwhile, the Westerdam is selling a 14 night (actually a back to back with a lousy itinerary) Dec 2 Caribbean cruise at huge discounts (we got a verandah for about $2450 (total cost for 2 including all fees). This meant that we could cruise on the Westerdam for about half the price as on the Eclipse (both 14 night Caribbean cruises leaving the same weekend). Now one can speculate why Celebrity is able to charge twice the cost as HA (comparable cruises). Having cruised on HA for 62 days this year (not countiing the upcoming 14 on the Westerdam) and 37 days on Celebrity (also this year) we would quickly pay Celebrity an extra $1000 over HA for a comparable cruise....but we decided to "live" with the Westerdam at half the price of Celebrity.

 

Hank

[surfsidemary]

While all of the above are little things, and we didn't all these trivialities to spoil our trip, I do believe that HAL is cutting back and it's noticeable to those who have sailed with the company for a decade or more. Maybe that's why HAL is so anxious to cater to new passengers ... they don't know what kind of service or ambiance ever was an integral part of HAL in the past.

 

Heck, I noticed an appalling decline just between 2011 and 2012! I was in love with HAL in 2010, still happy in 2011, and not happy at all in 2012. Those were 3 long cruises, too. You'd think they'd want to keep the kind of money I was paying them. Apparently not.

[Bearnaise]

Here is a comparison that says a lot about HA vs Celebrity (we enjoy both lines). On the 14 day Dec 1 Celebrity Eclipse Caribbean cruise (great itinerary) a balcony cabin ranged from about $4200 up to $6500 (Aqua Class) (total cost for 2)and the cruise was sold-out without any major discounting. Meanwhile, the Westerdam is selling a 14 night (actually a back to back with a lousy itinerary) Dec 2 Caribbean cruise at huge discounts (we got a verandah for about $2450 (total cost for 2 including all fees). This meant that we could cruise on the Westerdam for about half the price as on the Eclipse (both 14 night Caribbean cruises leaving the same weekend). Now one can speculate why Celebrity is able to charge twice the cost as HA (comparable cruises). Having cruised on HA for 62 days this year (not countiing the upcoming 14 on the Westerdam) and 37 days on Celebrity (also this year) we would quickly pay Celebrity an extra $1000 over HA for a comparable cruise....but we decided to "live" with the Westerdam at half the price of Celebrity.

$799/pp for an SZ guarantee for a week on Westerdam, plenty larger than the base "suite" on Regent. Things would have to be pretty dismal for me to complain.

 

I paid the same for a "suite" on the Carnival Paradise for a 3-day cruise and ended up with a norovirus.

[cruisemom42]

 

I paid the same for a "suite" on the Carnival Paradise for a 3-day cruise and ended up with a norovirus.

 

Are you suggesting there is some connection between these events? :rolleyes:

 

Carnival has one of the lowest rates of reportable incidents of norovirus outbreaks among major mass market lines in recent years according to the CDC list. Princess, HAL, and Celebrity far outstrip them.

 

In the past 4 years, the number of outbreaks per major line have been:

 

Princess: 13

HAL: 13

Celebrity: 11

Royal Caribbean: 4

Cunard: 3

Carnival: 2

NCL: 2

 

Regent, P&O, Oceania, Fred Olsen, and Lindblad each had 1 reportable outbreak during that period.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/gilist.htm

[Hlitner]

$799/pp for an SZ guarantee for a week on Westerdam, plenty larger than the base "suite" on Regent. Things would have to be pretty dismal for me to complain.

 

I paid the same for a "suite" on the Carnival Paradise for a 3-day cruise and ended up with a norovirus.

 

I agree! So we can then both agree that HA is doing a good job for a "budget cruise line." But geez, I thought HA tried to market themselves as a premium cruise line. Perhaps not anymore?

 

Hank

[Bearnaise]

I agree! So we can then both agree that HA is doing a good job for a "budget cruise line." But geez, I thought HA tried to market themselves as a premium cruise line. Perhaps not anymore?

I got a great deal on my Oosterdam Mexico cruise as well, wrap-around aft SC. It sure felt premium to me. But then again, all I know is Carnival and Regent. Nothing else to compare it to. Price was as good or better than Carnival, most everything else was as or nearly as good as Regent at a fraction of that line's cost (if they were to do Mex Riv that is). I was very pleased all around. I can't imagine I won't be on the Westerdam unless things have seriously declined. How they can manage to cruise for those prices, I have no idea.

[YYC F/A]

Nickel and diming passengers certainly does not make any friends.

 

Celebrity: You can enjoy a glass of wine in Cellarmasters, and with your paid beverage, some cheese, olives, or other nibbles/appetizers are available, but will set you back $3 - $6 per "tasting".

 

HAL: Complimentary hot and cold appetizers are served in bars and lounges during cocktail hour.

 

Celebrity: You can enjoy the selection of specialty restaurants - for $40 per person (plus gratuity, for which your servers will gracefully hint/solicit).

 

HAL: Pinnacle Grill is $25, with gratuity most definitely optional. Tamarind is a steal at $15, less than half Celebrity's offerings, and yet one of the best specialty restaurants at sea.

 

Celebrity: Enjoy Gelato in Cafe al Bacio for an up-charge of $5.

 

HAL: No Gelato, but home made ice creams are complimentary, along with a selection of toppings including liquors.