MX back to SAN (USA) by bus

[Big Feet]

When will the crazyness end???? we travel night 9 (last night of cruise) from SAN to Ensenada MX-- then get on a bus, in the morning, to go back 70 miles across a border that is already over worked and understaffed to SAN. This is madness. (not to mention what's been happening in Mexican towns)

Is there no way to just stay in SAN the last night and avoid this madness??? This cruise would require NO CUSTOMS inspection of passenger who get off in SAN since it originates in SEA with no foreign port stops ( except the MX connection last morning)

[Cruise Junky]

When will the crazyness end???

 

 

April 2014. Solstice will end going to Ensenada and start going to Vancouver instead :). And no, there's no way around it right now. Seattle to San Diego is an illegal cruise. Search for PVSA for all the information you ever wanted on why the cruise is illegal.

[Algebralovr]

When will the crazyness end???? we travel night 9 (last night of cruise) from SAN to Ensenada MX-- then get on a bus, in the morning, to go back 70 miles across a border that is already over worked and understaffed to SAN. This is madness. (not to mention what's been happening in Mexican towns)

Is there no way to just stay in SAN the last night and avoid this madness??? This cruise would require NO CUSTOMS inspection of passenger who get off in SAN since it originates in SEA with no foreign port stops ( except the MX connection last morning)

 

If you didn't finish the cruise in MX, you would violate the PVSA. That is why they do it. Celebrity doesn't care for it either.

[cruisestitch]

With no foreign port stops Celebrity would be violating the law.

 

The craziness won't completely end until Congress changes the law, which is highly unlikely in the foreseeable future.

[fleckle]

.......Is there no way to just stay in SAN the last night and avoid this madness??? .....

Sure there is, a very easy way.

 

Just choose a ship that goes to SAN from Vancouver instead of from Seattle.

 

For example, you could take the Millennium or the Century.

[mcrcruiser]

Sure there is, a very easy way.

 

Just choose a ship that goes to SAN from Vancouver instead of from Seattle.

 

For example, you could take the Millennium or the Century.

 

Avoiding Mexico at all costs is a very smart move ;). There is too much violence in Mexico :o .We had done Mexico cruises at least 15 times since we live in the San Diego county area .It was very convenient to board a ship from SD to the Mexican Riviera ;however ,now we choose cruises like R/T Hawaii or west coast coastal cruises & Alaska cruises :D:D:D.We also do Trans Atlantic & in April 2015 we are headed to Sydney Australia to board Soltice for the 18 night &then the b2b 11 night cruises ultimately reaching Vancouver BC:D

[Big Feet]

Thanks--- just because it's the LAW doesn't make it RIGHT. One option would be to register the ships in USA--- Oh but then taxes would be due on profits now hidden. Sorry-- just sick and tired of the same OL run around.

How about we sail down to MX at 4 PM-- tie up--- then sail back to SAN for a 7AM arrival. ( just don't let anyone off in MX. Or option 3-- wait until a bus full of US citizens gets high jacked and injured while on route back to US)

Someone mentioned act of congress------- this bunch in DC--- couldn't agree on changing old underwear let along make a decision on docking of a cruise ship.

[cruisestitch]

"How about we sail down to MX at 4 PM-- tie up--- then sail back to SAN for a 7AM arrival. ( just don't let anyone off in MX. "

 

No, that wouldn't work. You would still be using the ship to transport passengers between two US cities without a DISTANT foreign port in between.

 

If the ship starts in a US port, passengers must disembark in Mexico or they would be breaking the law.

[CRUZBUDS]

for those that don't know - the closest "distant foreign port" would be somewhere in South America (or one of the ABC Islands)

[neverbeenhere]

Create a petition for the Whitehouse asking for changes to the Jones Act. ????

[Blazerboy]

Thanks--- just because it's the LAW doesn't make it RIGHT. One option would be to register the ships in USA--- Oh but then taxes would be due on profits now hidden. Sorry-- just sick and tired of the same OL run around.

As fun as it is to get on one's high horse about these issues ( I should know my "horse" must be ten feet tall!:o), it's important to know the facts. The PVSA doesn't just say that the vessel must be registered in the US, but that the hull be built in the US. With perhaps the one exception of the Norwegian ship in Hawaii, none of the current cruise ships of ANY major cruise line would qualify. Further, if the ship was built and registered in the US, and subject to US laws, the cost to have a profitable cruise ship would put cruising in reach of only the wealthiest, and none of us in the middle class (lower, middle or upper substrates of "middle") would be able to cruise.

 

All because you don't want to take a bus...:confused:

 

I think the San Diego to Vancouver trip would be a better solution for you if you're worried about Mexico.:)

 

Andrew

 

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

[Murray's Pop]

Create a petition for the Whitehouse asking for changes to the Jones Act. ????

 

Sorry, but one of my pet peeves. This is NOT the Jones Act. The Jones Act deals with movement of cargo, not people.

 

It is the Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886 (PVSA), the PVSA deals with passengers.

 

There were attempts to eliminate the Jones Act in 2010 but, as usual, nothing can get accomplished in DC by the current bunch of idiots.

 

Ok, done with my rant. :)

[Big Feet]

Blazerboy--- I'm just tired of the idiots in this world with stupid laws --- and now i find another one actually two or three more. Taking a bus "Blazerboy" is not the objection--- are you sure you don't work for the gov't blazerboy? Wouldn't you like to stay one night in SAN rather go 70 miles south just to come north the next day. Positive comments and discussion.

I was attempting to provoke conversation-- not be brow beatin with wise cracks and comments like -- take a different route.

Murray's Pop thank you i didn't know it had a different name.

Cruisestitch--- it is a law--- you are so right--- written by men who can now appeal the stupid thing---

I've come to realize-- at mid 60's as maybe some of you have-- if it's a stupid law--- i don't care if i break it--- and yes i will pay the consequences.

[Blazerboy]

No one is browbeating you.

 

A suggestion to take a different route is just that, a suggestion, based on the desire to ease your very apparent frustration.

 

No, I'd rather be on the ship than spend an extra night in a hotel. I've taken the bus before. I survived, but, again, if you're concerned, see my post suggestion in the previous post.

 

No, I don't work for the government, and didn't realize that a modicum of knowledge of maritime law and simple economics would indicate that I did. No, I'm not a lawyer, either.

 

If you're willing to break the law, that's your choice. At nearly your age, I've learned to obey rules but take action to change them, rather than think that a problem will be solved on a message board, or that I have a right to disobey laws simply because they inconvenience me.

 

Last, you seem to have a fascination with my screen name. As they say, if it's important, it bears repeating, so thank you. I must be important.

 

Enjoy your cruise.

 

Andrew

[Algebralovr]

Blazerboy--- I'm just tired of the idiots in this world with stupid laws --- and now i find another one actually two or three more. Taking a bus "Blazerboy" is not the objection--- are you sure you don't work for the gov't blazerboy? Wouldn't you like to stay one night in SAN rather go 70 miles south just to come north the next day. Positive comments and discussion.

I was attempting to provoke conversation-- not be brow beatin with wise cracks and comments like -- take a different route.

Murray's Pop thank you i didn't know it had a different name.

Cruisestitch--- it is a law--- you are so right--- written by men who can now appeal the stupid thing---

I've come to realize-- at mid 60's as maybe some of you have-- if it's a stupid law--- i don't care if i break it--- and yes i will pay the consequences.

 

Both the Jones Act and the PVSA currently serve to protect US transportation businesses from competition.

 

The PVSA protects our airline industry. Under the PVSA, passenger vessels must be built, registered, and staffed in the US according to US regulations. Because of this, Boeing builds their planes in the US, even with all the union labor they have to pay for. The US aircraft companies are the only ones that fly passengers from US city to US city. AirCanada is not allowed to fly passengers from one US city to another, nor is AirFrance, or British Airways. They may code-share with a US company, and often do, but they do not own or operate the plane. While I believe there should be some exceptions to the PVSA, specifically for repositioning cruise ships, Congress has not seen fit to amend the PVSA to allow those exceptions. I highly recommend that you contact your US Representatives and Senators to request their assistance in this matter - not the full repeal of the PVSA, but rather that cruise ships be allowed to make limited trips that would normally violate the PVSA and not have to make the SEA to MX trip.

 

The Jones Act protects our Merchant Marine fleet in the same way. There are ships that transport containers between different ports. This is particularly true of our river traffic! Coal, for example, is transported along the large rivers in the US on barges. If the Jones Act were repealed, would a foreign company try to take over that? Would they undercut current bids, driving US owned shippers out of business? Who knows!

 

They are not perfect laws, but they do serve a purpose.

[navyrotorhead]

just because it's the LAW doesn't make it RIGHT.

Someone mentioned act of congress--this bunch in DC--couldn't agree on changing old underwear let along make a decision on docking of a cruise ship.

 

Just ask NCL/NCL America that TRIED to follow the rules and hire American workers for their ships in Hawaii a few years back. :confused:

 

It almost bankrupted the company (SEVERAL HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS in losses!:eek:)

 

There is only ONE ship there now, (instead of four) and it gets pretty crappy reviews that are quite often attributed to the "required-by-law-American-citizen-shipboard-employees." :rolleyes:

 

Be careful what you ask for or you COULD end up with more convenient port stops, ALONG with NOT-so-affordable health care, as well as carbon footprint taxes to boot! ( and who KNOWS about underwear requirements!?)

[hancock]

Sure, you can stay in San Diego overnight instead of going on to Mexico. Just be prepared to pay the $300pp fine that, I am sure, the cruise line will pass on to you. Unfortunately, the law requires us to continue on to Mexico so as to fulfill the requirements of the PVSA.

 

There are a lot of disappointed cruisers who have missed the ship in Miami or Ft. Lauderdale and found out that they couldn't join the ship at the next stop, Key West, because of the PVSA. While having to leave the ship at Ensenada is an inconvenience, it is necessary at this time.

[WestLakeGirl]

big feet, you may be willing to break the law, but it wouldn't be you breaking it. It would be Celebrity. But for sure they would pass the fine on to you. And I would bet you would be banned from X, Royal, Azamara and Xpedition for doing it deliberately.

[CRUZBUDS]

As far as Celbrity is concerned Ensenada is a dead issue. With the planned modifications of the Solstice mast, she will be able to sail under the bridge in Vancouver. She will not do any cruises via Ensenada next year.

 

We canceled our Solstice cruise next April, because she is going from Honolulu to Vancouver instead of Ensenada. We live in S.D. and didnt mind the bus ride, although of course it is stupid. :).

[Big Feet]

OK lets try this:::::::::::: I am an american citizen--- 9 days of our trip I never leave US territory--- I get off in SAN---- the ship goes to MX -- who in US customs IN MX would i be reported toooooooooooo?

Can i suggest--- we all check and see how many people disembark in SAN with their luggage--- (including crew).

Blazer Boy -- yes U are VERY important-- but i was just wondering why your name is Blazerboy and Blazer Boy (2 words)

 

Also many have said a money fine------- but fine prices vary from 300 to 500--- also won't be allowed on ships in the future---- many penalties. No documentation to back up -- would love to see some.

[cruisestitch]

"OK lets try this:::::::::::: I am an american citizen--- 9 days of our trip I never leave US territory--- I get off in SAN---- the ship goes to MX -- who in US customs IN MX would i be reported toooooooooooo?"

 

Your citizenship doesn't matter. The cruise line cannot transport passengers between two US ports without a distant foreign port in between. The nationality of the passengers is immaterial.

 

 

"Can i suggest--- we all check and see how many people disembark in SAN with their luggage--- (including crew). "

 

Crew are not passengers. If they disembark with their luggage it has nothing to do with the transport of paying customers.

 

Anyone who tries to disembark with their luggage in San Diego would be stopped by the security staff. You are welcome to try.

 

I'm not seeing anywhere in this thread where the monetary amount of the fine is mentioned. Perhaps you have been reading other threads.

 

The fine is currently $300 per person.

 

Have a look here:

 

http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/trade/legal/informed_compliance_pubs/pvsa_icp.ctt/pvsa_icp.pdf

[Blazerboy]

Blazer Boy -- yes U are VERY important-- but i was just wondering why your name is Blazerboy and Blazer Boy (2 words).

College nickname, given to me in the spirit of "Batman," thus the one word. 30 years later, perhaps "boy" is a stretch, but it's been my screen name for so long, I haven't wanted to change it. There are many stories about people's screen names, and if posters inquire politely, most are happy to explain.:)

 

As far as me being important, that was said tongue-in-cheek. Last I checked, humor was not against board policies.

 

So back to the discussion about you wanting to break the law...

 

Andrew...or And Drew if you prefer.

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

[leonardofan]

"How about we sail down to MX at 4 PM-- tie up--- then sail back to SAN for a 7AM arrival. ( just don't let anyone off in MX. "

 

No, that wouldn't work. You would still be using the ship to transport passengers between two US cities without a DISTANT foreign port in between.

 

If the ship starts in a US port, passengers must disembark in Mexico or they would be breaking the law.

 

Clarify this please--Everybody stops in Ensenada between Hawaii and California, thereby complying ,apparently,with the PVSA...

[Archer0749]

Did that exact thing on a cruise to Hawaii and back out of SAn. but the current was so strong that we didn't get in until late at nightand the only peropns to get off was an entertainer that had to catch a flight to vegas for his next job:D

 

 

Thanks--- just because it's the LAW doesn't make it RIGHT. One option would be to register the ships in USA--- Oh but then taxes would be due on profits now hidden. Sorry-- just sick and tired of the same OL run around.

How about we sail down to MX at 4 PM-- tie up--- then sail back to SAN for a 7AM arrival. ( just don't let anyone off in MX. Or option 3-- wait until a bus full of US citizens gets high jacked and injured while on route back to US)

Someone mentioned act of congress------- this bunch in DC--- couldn't agree on changing old underwear let along make a decision on docking of a cruise ship.

[cruisestitch]

To clarify --

 

A round trip, in and out of the same port, only needs to visit a foreign port.

 

A one way, going from one US port to a different US port, needs to visit a DISTANT foreign port.

 

Examples:

 

New York - Bermuda - New York round trip -- any foreign port will do

 

Miami - Columbia - Panama Canal - San Diego one way -- must visit a distant foreign port so OK

 

New York - Bermuda - Miami one way -- would not be allowed because Bermuda is not a DISTANT foreign port

 

San Diego - Vancouver - San Diego round trip, includes a foreign port, so OK

 

San Diego - Vancouver - Seattle - would not be allowed because Vancouver is not a DISTANT foreign port

 

Alaska - Vancouver to San Diego -- not allowed. That's why the ship must go on to Ensenada and passengers can't get off in San Diego

 

San Diego - Hawaii - San Diego -- not allowed because no foreign port was visited

 

San Diego - Hawaii - Ensenada - San Diego round trip, includes a foreign port, so OK

 

San Diego - Hawaii - Ensanada - Seattle no allowed because no DISTANT foreign port

 

If I have erred, I'm sure someone will correct me, but I think I have all the details correct