Princess fine art no more !

[Hlitner]

Yes, but you don't hear it at Sotheby's (:D)

 

They also do not sell ink jet copies at Sotheby's:eek:

 

Hank

[Loonbeam]

Actually I have, just a little toned down (I was there for a sports memorabilia auction some time ago). Depends on what they were selling. But its not as necessary in a quiet low paced environment.

 

My point was, unlike some of the other practices noted, this one is legitimate and not uncommon in reputable auctions.

 

Yes, but you don't hear it at Sotheby's (:D)

[Etrader99]

Heard about PW when I got on the Sapphire in late January. Was looking for some Guyton's. All were gone. Contacted Guyton and he is well aware of what has happened as is pretty bummed about it. He had a great relationship with Princess.

 

I was told that everything was being inventoried back at PW, but I have a feeling his stuff is not coming back. If anyone has seen any of his works on a Princess ship please post.

 

Going on the Ruby in March and hoping to see his works back on the ship.

[nnrd79a]

Heard about PW when I got on the Sapphire in late January. Was looking for some Guyton's. All were gone. Contacted Guyton and he is well aware of what has happened as is pretty bummed about it. He had a great relationship with Princess.

 

I was told that everything was being inventoried back at PW, but I have a feeling his stuff is not coming back. If anyone has seen any of his works on a Princess ship please post.

 

Going on the Ruby in March and hoping to see his works back on the ship.

 

Guyton and DeRubies are two of my favorite new-ish artists.

 

Just got off the Ruby. Nothing, nada... They had a ton of Max prints and a few originals, two Duaiv originals (That I saw), a bunch of prints that looked like other various artists. I asked one employee about the old stock. All he would say was that it was being "re-framed'.

 

I've been told that you can find Guyton's in Key West.

 

Good Luck!

[LewesBeach]

Wow. Just stumbled upon this thread. I have no dog in this fight but have gone to Art Auctions just out of curiosity. Some of the stuff is god-awful and some is pretty nice - but art is in the eyes of the beholder, right? I wonder how many of the nay-sayers have actually attended one? Its not all olives & dogs playing cards. It just amazes me the smug, judgmental attitude some people have - calling it junk and saying buyers are fools and suckers. How many of those people have been parted with a good chunk of THEIR money in Casinos, or Spas, or at bars, or spending on pet accessories, or costume jewelry, or expensive wines - or any number of things which other people would think foolish? Its those kind of bitchy, snarky comments that have put a lot of people off of CC. What possesses people to cast stones like that?

[ar1950]

Wow. Just stumbled upon this thread. I have no dog in this fight but have gone to Art Auctions just out of curiosity..........

................ What possesses people to cast stones like that?

 

Probably the fact that Princess has changed venders for the art auctions. Princess Fine Arts used to be pretty low key and fairly classy. We attended several of their auctions and enjoyed them (even bought a couple of prints). The new group, Park West, sounds more like some sort of clown-car brigade, with no class. That would be evidenced by one reviewer's comment that by the end of the auction only a third of the audience was still there. We never saw that happen when Princess Fine Arts was running the art auctions. :cool:

[RDC1]

Probably the fact that Princess has changed venders for the art auctions. Princess Fine Arts used to be pretty low key and fairly classy. We attended several of their auctions and enjoyed them (even bought a couple of prints). The new group, Park West, sounds more like some sort of clown-car brigade, with no class. That would be evidenced by one reviewer's comment that by the end of the auction only a third of the audience was still there. We never saw that happen when Princess Fine Arts was running the art auctions. :cool:

 

Combine that with Park West's history in the cruise industry. A history with a track record of poor service and lets just say a lack of attention to detail in how they have conducted business. I would not buy anything from Park West at any price, even if they paid me.

[7czcruiser]

Or legal issues.

 

RCCL eliminated their relationship with Park West earlier this year.

 

From a Cruise Critic article earlier this year:

 

"On ships that offer art auctions, Park West Gallery still has a stronghold, with a presence aboard Carnival Cruise Lines, Norwegian Cruise Line and Regent Seven Seas; West End Gallery does business aboard Disney Cruise Line ships; and British American Auctions holds court on Celebrity Cruises ships. Princess Cruises decided years ago that it could operate a more engaging auction presence aboard its ships than any mainstream gallery could, so it created the Princess Fine Arts Auction. Many Princess passengers appreciate knowing with exactly whom they're dealing when it comes to these purchases, and dealing with an in-house company gives them an increased sense of security when buying art onboard. Ten years ago, almost every major cruise ship offered auctions, but that's not the case now. Both Windstar Cruises and Oceania Cruises dropped auctions from their rosters in recent years, and Royal Caribbean ended a longtime relationship with Park West."

Unfortunately, they are back. There seems to be no other option other than not to have auctions. PW guarantees the cruise line a revenue stream with no risk or overhead. Sadly, It's all about money and not customer satisfaction anymore.

[chamima]

We just returned from two weeks on the Celebrity Eclipse followed immediately by a week on the Royal Princess.

We would never buy anything from Park West but had to walk by the art every day.

There were many, many of the exact same pictures on both ships! :p

[7czcruiser]

Why? Is it a classified matter subject to sanctions by DHS?

 

Tell us all. They doubtless earned the report.

PWG (Pirates With Gavels) WILL come after you. Be careful what you say on forums...Not joking.

[7czcruiser]

Guyton and DeRubies are two of my favorite new-ish artists.

 

Just got off the Ruby. Nothing, nada... They had a ton of Max prints and a few originals, two Duaiv originals (That I saw), a bunch of prints that looked like other various artists. I asked one employee about the old stock. All he would say was that it was being "re-framed'.

 

I've been told that you can find Guyton's in Key West.

 

Good Luck!

 

Guyton and DeRubeis will be back soon. Just don't expect to see the PFA prices. Did you know that you do not get the embellished Max that you bid for? You get one "similar". This is to keep the inventory onboard and keep selling to unsuspecting new cruisers. It's all in the fine print folks! P.s. Do you really think Peter Max actually touches anything under 10k? Sad, but TRUE...

[nnrd79a]

Guyton and DeRubeis will be back soon. Just don't expect to see the PFA prices. Did you know that you do not get the embellished Max that you bid for? You get one "similar". This is to keep the inventory onboard and keep selling to unsuspecting new cruisers. It's all in the fine print folks! P.s. Do you really think Peter Max actually touches anything under 10k? Sad, but TRUE...

 

Yup.... You should read my PW experience on the Ruby.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=41551953&postcount=144

 

I was genuinely concerned about Princess Name/Reputation with some of the "statements" the auctioneer made about Max prints.........

 

Here is a snippet from my post...

 

-----------------------

Next, and this one really concerned me for Princess’ sake… (Princess should not have let Park West use the Princess Fine Arts name)… Next …. Came an embellished Peter Max print.

This is where the whole process got sketchy…. The Auctioneer said that up for auction was a “Genuine one of a kind hand embellished Peter Max print” he said that they could get as many of these hand embellished prints as the audience needed. He said “Imaging telling your friends that you have a Peter Max Painting that was hand painted just for you!” “Your own one of a kind painting” He said that they had the power to just call Max up and order as many as were needed. Place a bid and everyone in the room could each have a “unique one of a kind Max”.

 

I should not have to tell you, this was very scary. This is the type of thing that can cause lawsuits. There were no takers… So I guess it was not a problem in the end.

-----------------------

Edited March 14, 2014 by nnrd79a

[tothemall&beyond]

Yup.... You should read my PW experience on the Ruby.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=41551953&postcount=144

 

I was genuinely concerned about Princess Name/Reputation with some of the "statements" the auctioneer made about Max prints.........

 

Here is a snippet from my post...

 

-----------------------

Next, and this one really concerned me for Princess’ sake… (Princess should not have let Park West use the Princess Fine Arts name)… Next …. Came an embellished Peter Max print.

This is where the whole process got sketchy…. The Auctioneer said that up for auction was a “Genuine one of a kind hand embellished Peter Max print” he said that they could get as many of these hand embellished prints as the audience needed. He said “Imaging telling your friends that you have a Peter Max Painting that was hand painted just for you!” “Your own one of a kind painting” He said that they had the power to just call Max up and order as many as were needed. Place a bid and everyone in the room could each have a “unique one of a kind Max”.

 

I should not have to tell you, this was very scary. This is the type of thing that can cause lawsuits. There were no takers… So I guess it was not a problem in the end.

-----------------------

Was that the young auctioneer that was on board Ruby in Dec and Jan? He is an annoying, conceited, ignorant jerk who doesn't know s--t from shinola about art. He was not there (it was still PFA) in Oct for our Greek Isles cruise on the Ruby. Bad move by Princess to switch to PWG. The PFA guys actually knew their stuff. Although I personally have never bought anything on a cruise, I used to enjoy going to the auctions. I liked the art trivia at the beginning and the art history lessons.

[nnrd79a]

Was that the young auctioneer that was on board Ruby in Dec and Jan? He is an annoying, conceited, ignorant jerk who doesn't know s--t from shinola about art. He was not there (it was still PFA) in Oct for our Greek Isles cruise on the Ruby. Bad move by Princess to switch to PWG. The PFA guys actually knew their stuff. Although I personally have never bought anything on a cruise, I used to enjoy going to the auctions. I liked the art trivia at the beginning and the art history lessons.

 

Might be… I don’t remember any of their names….. but….

 

We were onboard near the end of January.

 

The main auctioneer was younger, thin, and a little bit on the shorter/average size, say 5’6ish.

Yes, he was very arrogant, dismissive, and full of himself.

 

His helpers were as follows:

Three helpers, One tall good sized fellow

(He was the guy that said all the older stuff was out for “re-framing”).

 

Two Ladies. Both were brunette, one of them had a British accent and was very petite.

I believe the other lady said she was from California. She was very pretty. An all around girl next door type of person.

(She was also the nicest of the bunch)

 

Perhaps these were the same folks you interacted with on Ruby?

 

I agree, about PFA.

 

The last time I was on the Ruby pre PWG, our art director was named Chris. He was a little bit older and had some huge wild frizzy hair!

He was quite the character! He was a bit odd, but he knew his stuff. I really enjoyed expanding my art knowledge on that Cruise.

[caribill]

Here is a snippet from my post...

 

-----------------------

Next, and this one really concerned me for Princess’ sake… (Princess should not have let Park West use the Princess Fine Arts name)… Next …. Came an embellished Peter Max print.

This is where the whole process got sketchy…. The Auctioneer said that up for auction was a “Genuine one of a kind hand embellished Peter Max print” he said that they could get as many of these hand embellished prints as the audience needed. He said “Imaging telling your friends that you have a Peter Max Painting that was hand painted just for you!” “Your own one of a kind painting” He said that they had the power to just call Max up and order as many as were needed. Place a bid and everyone in the room could each have a “unique one of a kind Max”.

 

 

-----------------------

 

I read this carefully and I do not see at any point it says that Peter Max did any of the painting by hand.

 

It says

a) It is a Peter Max Print

b) It says it has been hand embellished (or hand painted)

 

But it does not say who actually did the hand embellishment.

 

No matter who did the hand painting part, it is true that is unique, one of a kind.

[caribill]

An example of the Fine Art you can bid for from Park West on a Princess cruise.

 

[icat2000]

I went to a couple of auctions on the dawn last week. What a disaster. The guy didnt know his stock. Probably the worst one I have been too.

 

Back in january I went to auction on rcl rhapsody. Art guy was Bruno. Fabulous. Knew his product sold tons. I didnt buy.

 

I hated the stock that park west had.

[kendon]

If I see another painting of a martini with dancing olives...

 

Are the art auctions really worth the time and effort?

[Loonbeam]

Thanks, I meant to post this. The auctioneer can imply whatever he wants (legally, ethically is a another matter). As long as he doesn't specify embellished BY Peter Max, he's at least covered. Legally speaking, the Peter Max print some kid drew on with a crayon is a one of a kind embellished print.

 

I read this carefully and I do not see at any point it says that Peter Max did any of the painting by hand.

 

It says

a) It is a Peter Max Print

b) It says it has been hand embellished (or hand painted)

 

But it does not say who actually did the hand embellishment.

 

No matter who did the hand painting part, it is true that is unique, one of a kind.

[Hlitner]

If I see another painting of a martini with dancing olives...

 

Are the art auctions really worth the time and effort?

 

Yes, they are indeed worth the time and effort to Park West and Princess. Park West does a great job generating income for itself and the cruise line's upon which it operates.

 

Now as to whether its worth the time and effort for the cruiser is another question. To us, going to a PW auction ranks somewhere below my love of cleaning dirty bathrooms. Come to think or it, I would prefer to clean the bathroom :)

 

Hank

[san diego sue]

I swore off the auctions when I experienced the Auctionaire on the Sapphire. He was full of himself, spoke so fast, couldn't understand what he was saying. Had drawings for those little 8x10 pieces of art that used to be free for attending auctions.

Well for some reason (maybe I was bored) went to the first art auction on board the Emerald in February. The Auctionaire and his whole team was really interesting. Although I have a lot of art in my house, and know quite a bit, did pick up some new information.

He kept doing raffles for free art (large pieces, seragraphs, signed in plate not by artist, but still beautiful). We won three times. He also was giving away those 8x10 to people that attended.Decided to have the pieces we won framed by them because they were large and would have cost a fortune at home. Their framing prices were really reasonable and shipping included.I wouldn't have purchased anything at the auction but getting them free and they are lovely. Will be giving them to my daughter because she happens to love those particular artist's work.

There was some really nice pieces of art at this auction, unlike what the guy on the Sapphire had. People were buying this time.

I look at the art we have purchased in the past as something I love. not as an investment. Never would I spend thousands on the Max, Chagall's etc.

[caribill]

Are the art auctions really worth the time and effort?

 

Sometimes they are more entertaining than the comedians in the Princess Theater.

[nnrd79a]

Thanks, I meant to post this. The auctioneer can imply whatever he wants (legally, ethically is a another matter). As long as he doesn't specify embellished BY Peter Max, he's at least covered. Legally speaking, the Peter Max print some kid drew on with a crayon is a one of a kind embellished print.

 

I agree with what both caribill and loonbeam posted.

 

I also realize the nuances between what was actually stated vs. what was implied.

 

As the auctioneer presented the prints, he never once said that the prints were embellished by Max himself.

 

But come on, we are dealing with the general public here.

Some folks will clearly understand that what is being portrayed, while others will have no clue.

 

It is the "others" that clog up our court systems with all the frivolous stuff.

 

I suppose I did a poor job in trying to convey my point.

 

If an "other" purchased a no-name embellished Max print, then experienced buyers remorse after realizing they purchased something that they thought (implied and never realized) was something completely different......... That "other" might be able to find a lawyer pro bono, spend very little cash, and might cause Princess and PWG to experience a small headache for a few months if not a few years.

 

I was trying to argue that Princess should not have loaned their in-house brand over to a third party vendor.

 

Could what I witnessed on the Ruby at the art auction generate a lawsuit... YES..... Would the person suing win?.... Odds are NO........

 

------------

As an update to my post about the auctioneer, I may have been a little harsh.

 

He did seem self centered and a bit of a jerk, but I never got to know him, and I only spoke with him the one time. Perhaps he is a great guy... I just do not know. I only have my first impression.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=42048826&postcount=164

------------

 

Oh... I never saw the above stuff happened on a PFA auction.

The auctioneers would always state that a print was embellished by an apprentice, or by a student of some art place where the master was a teacher... etc..

Edited March 15, 2014 by nnrd79a

[cr8tiv1]

I did make a purchase from Park West eons ago (can't tell you when or what ship). All I can remember is that when the cell arrived, I wasn't thrilled with it and returned it. It was a hassle and I swore off Art Auctions on ships.

 

Fast forward to late last year. I took multiple short cruises on the Golden. I had many conversations with Andy, the art auctioneer. He gained my trust and I finally purchased a wonderful Winnie the Pooh framed art work. I had done my homework in between cruises and decided that it was worth not paying tax for it plus they would ship it to Hawaii for me. I took all of these things into consideration.

 

Then, I was on the Sapphire in January. Park West had taken over the Art Auctions. I attended the auction out of curiosity. It was worse than bad. Arrived at 4. By 5, they were still doing "previews". This was not mentioned in the Patter. You only received the "free" champagne if you registered for a paddle. The displayed art work was terrible. When I asked the auctioneer when the auction would actually start, he was very rude and condescending. I could go on and on and on, but I am sure others have set the stage and tone of where this activity is going.

 

I don't know how long Park West has a contract with Princess, but if they are monitoring this thread, I would recommend that they end this contract as soon as possible and bring back the much friendlier Princess Fine Arts group. I am sure they have someone on board who is watching how many people attend (how many walk out), how many purchases are made, reading the comment cards, etc.

[Loonbeam]

I haven't bought art on board a ship, but I strongly suspect the purchase order has an arbitration clause, precluding suits. Does anyone have a copy of their receipt if they bought something from the 'new' PFA?

 

I agree with what both caribill and loonbeam posted.

 

I also realize the nuances between what was actually stated vs. what was implied.

 

As the auctioneer presented the prints, he never once said that the prints were embellished by Max himself.

 

But come on, we are dealing with the general public here.

Some folks will clearly understand that what is being portrayed, while others will have no clue.

 

It is the "others" that clog up our court systems with all the frivolous stuff.

 

I suppose I did a poor job in trying to convey my point.

 

If an "other" purchased a no-name embellished Max print, then experienced buyers remorse after realizing they purchased something that they thought (implied and never realized) was something completely different......... That "other" might be able to find a lawyer pro bono, spend very little cash, and might cause Princess and PWG to experience a small headache for a few months if not a few years.

 

I was trying to argue that Princess should not have loaned their in-house brand over to a third party vendor.

 

Could what I witnessed on the Ruby at the art auction generate a lawsuit... YES..... Would the person suing win?.... Odds are NO........

 

------------

As an update to my post about the auctioneer, I may have been a little harsh.

 

He did seem self centered and a bit of a jerk, but I never got to know him, and I only spoke with him the one time. Perhaps he is a great guy... I just do not know. I only have my first impression.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=42048826&postcount=164

------------

 

Oh... I never saw the above stuff happened on a PFA auction.

The auctioneers would always state that a print was embellished by an apprentice, or by a student of some art place where the master was a teacher... etc..