What happened to the Le Club Voyage announcement?

[audobon_tx]

Not quite sure of the 10 point discrepancy between Azamara Discoverer and Celebrity Elite tiers, but with the reciprocity that exists between the two lines your Elite status on Celebrity would have you at Discoverer on Azamara automatically I would think.

 

Phil

 

Phil, I hope so. But the formula posted previously indicated for example that what used to be a 60 point trip (cruise of 12 nights or more equaling 2 credits which were converted at 30 points per credit to 60 points) is now a 36 point trip (veranda for twelve nights at 3 points per night). Maybe I am reading the formula wrong but if I am correct it will now require 103 nights in a veranda to make the Discover level.

[Jade13]

Phil, I hope so. But the formula posted previously indicated for example that what used to be a 60 point trip (cruise of 12 nights or more equaling 2 credits which were converted at 30 points per credit to 60 points) is now a 36 point trip (veranda for twelve nights at 3 points per night). Maybe I am reading the formula wrong but if I am correct it will now require 103 nights in a veranda to make the Discover level.

 

They are trying to slow down the process of people making the higher tiers, so yes, it will take longer.

 

I still don't know why Azamara needs to follow the Celebrity formula exactly since all the cabins are so much more expensive. Just because Celebrity awards the same points for an inside and outside (and Suite more than double the points from a Veranda), doesn't mean Azamara has to do the same.

 

No one lost status on Celebrity after the conversion, so I would think no one would loose status on Azamara either.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Jade13

[Kellie Poodle]

They are trying to slow down the process of people making the higher tiers, so yes, it will take longer.

 

I still don't know why Azamara needs to follow the Celebrity formula exactly since all the cabins are so much more expensive. Just because Celebrity awards the same points for an inside and outside (and Suite more than double the points from a Veranda), doesn't mean Azamara has to do the same.

 

No one lost status on Celebrity after the conversion, so I would think no one would loose status on Azamara either.

 

Treating inside and outside cabins the same isn't really fair, either, unless Celebrity would be willing to charge the same price for both. On some sailings there is a larger cash difference between inside and outside than there is between outside and veranda.

[marinaro44]

Treating inside and outside cabins the same isn't really fair, either, unless Celebrity would be willing to charge the same price for both. On some sailings there is a larger cash difference between inside and outside than there is between outside and veranda.

The real jump is from veranda to club continent suite. The latter costs about 15% more but the points are increased by 167%. Worse, some of us can't stand up in the shower in a suite--at any price.:(

[Kellie Poodle]

The real jump is from veranda to club continent suite. The latter costs about 15% more but the points are increased by 167%. Worse, some of us can't stand up in the shower in a suite--at any price.:(

 

Are the suite showers so short or are you so tall?

[marinaro44]

Are the suite showers so short or are you so tall?

Both.;)

[audobon_tx]

They are trying to slow down the process of people making the higher tiers, so yes, it will take longer.

 

Yes, it will. Roughly twice as long in a Veranda cabin. Are you implying that is a good thing?

 

Just received the 2014/2015 brochure in the post. Cheap. The new person who replaced Edie: a) uses others (interns?) to communicate with this board; b) puts little value in glamorizing the product if the brochure is any indication; c) must be under enormous pressure to cut costs (internet minutes and laundry perks tied to newly reduced LCV status - really?); d) may be the wrong person for the job.

Edited December 29, 2013 by flyingshoes

[uktog]

Yes, it will. Roughly twice as long in a Veranda cabin. Are you implying that is a good thing?

 

Just received the 2014/2015 brochure in the post. Cheap. The new person who replaced Edie: a) uses others (interns?) to communicate with this board; b) puts little value in glamorizing the product if the brochure is any indication; c) must be under enormous pressure to cut costs (internet minutes and laundry perks tied to newly reduced LCV status - really?); d) may be the wrong person for the job.

 

I have not seen the new brochure, but maybe the decision was taken to reduce costs there because research shows far fewer people are influenced by the look and feel of hard copy these days when making purchasing decisions - and maybe the money saved is going to make its way one day to the website! So maybe they have the right person in the job!

 

You cannot yet be sure what the LCV values will be but your own status stays as it is, so not reduced.

 

I do agree they may need to look at the earning rate on the basis if status bothers people and they have a goal to be at a certain level, it will be more economical, if costs a driver, to cruise with Celebrity until you receive the status. However, they may also have evidence from research across a cross sector of guests that the cost of keeping the status driven guests sweet outweighs the advantages of their custom.

 

Personally I would have preferred better recognition of previous cruises in Azamara - suites have been converted at the same rate as X Concierge cruises and that is a significant gap in my view. ( by the way tall DH has no issues in their showers)

 

However, in the end of the day, the cruiseline makes the choices and whilst we can comment, on this one they can do nothing as I doubt there is strong evidence that club perks or conversions rank very high in the drivers for booking amongst Azamara guests (past guest are more likely to be loyal because they want to experience the great service again,not because they are getting some laundry done)

Edited December 29, 2013 by uktog

[Xport]

As for the changes in Le Club Voyage, I can provide you with the following update: As you are all very familiar with the RCCL family of cruise lines, many of you realize that we (Azamara Club Cruises) are tied to Celebrity's Captain's Club program and their loyalty tier structure, so some changes have taken place as to how your records are being calculated. As some of the members on this thread has indicated, we have therefore also re-structured the loyalty program to the points by day system rather than the credits by voyage. We are in the process of creating the communication to all club members as we speak, and it will be arriving in your email inboxes in mid-January. That email will tell you what level you are in the new hierarchy, as well as how many points you will have in the new program. If you are sailing between now and the time you receive that email, the ships staff will have the new information.

 

In the meantime, below is a summary of the changes that have been made:

 

Stateroom Category — Points per Day

Club Interior & Club Oceanview — 2

Club Veranda — 3

Club Continent Suites — 8

Club Ocean and Club World Owner Suites — 18

 

 

Membership Level — Points Needed

Adventurer (after 1st voyage) — Up to 149

Explorer — 150 – 309

Discoverer — 310 – 749

Discoverer Plus — 750 – 2,999

Discoverer Platinum — 3,000 Plus

 

At this point, the benefits of the program - including the reciprocity between Royal and Celebrity - will stay the same for Le Club Voyage. The 3 Discoverer tiers in terms of benefits will continue to be handled as the current Discoverer level. However, we are working on changes to the benefits, we are currently planning to launch these in the 2nd quarter of 2014 - around Azamara Club Cruises 4th anniversary.

 

But in all candor, it does not appear as if the changes to Le Club Voyage as outlined above--and though I might wish some of the details were different, I do not dispute Azamara's right to make them--are equitable to those of us who are sailing during the first quarter of 2014 after having already achieved a higher level of membership...

 

By having already adopted the Club Points/Day--based upon level of accommodation--rather than Cruise Credits/Sailing technique for recognizing loyalty, I will--on a 42 night B2B2B voyage in a verandah cabin--wind up with 54 fewer club points than if the 6 cruise credits that would have been awarded under the old system had been converted--as Celebrity did; including past Azamara cruise history--at 30 points per cruise credit...

 

In and of itself, I was prepared for that after having watched the Celebrity conversion and after having read Bill's preview here of the changes coming for Club Points accrual in Le Club Voyage... What I wasn't prepared for is the fact that improved loyalty benefits associated with new levels of membership--in my case, Discover +--will not be rolled out until Second Quarter 2014... The changes in recognizing loyalty--both in terms of how it's determined and in how it's rewarded--ought, to my mind, be introduced coextensively...

 

The disconnect--albeit conceptual since we don't know what the benefits at new loyalty levels will be--astounds me... I lose Points that are roughly equivalent to those I'd earn during an 11 night cruise in Celebrity AquaClass--by far, my most frequent choice of accommodation during my sailing history--while gaining no additional benefits during my upcoming trips aboard Journey that I'd not previously enjoyed as an Azamara Discoverer in the past...

 

It's difficult to understand how such practices engender loyalty... And frankly, it's more difficult to understand how Azamara could not be fully ready for the conversion given that the Captain's Club changes, though announced just over a month ago, have been years in the making and the tie in loyalty accounting between lines has existed for years...

 

Very disappointing, very ill-conceived, not at all in keeping with the image that Azamara seemingly--but sometimes, very clumsily--wishes to convey, and just not ready for primetime...

 

It's difficult not to evaluate situations such as this through one's own prism... I apologize for that, but surely, I'm not the only one in like situation and my scenario demonstrates a bigger issue that should've been--and can still be-- avoided...

 

--Mike

[excitedofharpenden]

I understand the workings of the new system and why it's been done, but have to agree that I find it strange that new levels to be introduced very soon won't have any extra benefits until the second quarter of 2014. I don't really get that unless Azamara have been left on the hoof with the Captain's Club changes and are now playing catch up. I also dislike the use of that term of timeframe because in the past it's more often than not equalled delays.

 

Phil

[Jade13]

Yes, it will. Roughly twice as long in a Veranda cabin. Are you implying that is a good thing?

 

Just received the 2014/2015 brochure in the post. Cheap. The new person who replaced Edie: a) uses others (interns?) to communicate with this board; b) puts little value in glamorizing the product if the brochure is any indication; c) must be under enormous pressure to cut costs (internet minutes and laundry perks tied to newly reduced LCV status - really?); d) may be the wrong person for the job.

 

No, just saying they are trying to slow down the process. There are many comments on the Celebrity board of how people were taking 3, 4, and 5 night cruises and getting 2 points by staying in a concierge class cabin, the same amount of points as someone who took a 7-11 night cruise and the same as someone who stayed in a suite.

 

My main comment is that I don't understand why Azamara has to copy Celebrity in the way it hands out points because there are only 2 ships and also all of the pricing is so much higher. They don't have the same issue with retired people living in Florida taking last minute 3 and 4 nights cruises at rock bottom prices and accumulating the same amount of points as someone who was taking an 11 night cruise on Celebrity.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Jade13

[audobon_tx]

No, just saying they are trying to slow down the process. There are many comments on the Celebrity board of how people were taking 3, 4, and 5 night cruises and getting 2 points by staying in a concierge class cabin, the same amount of points as someone who took a 7-11 night cruise and the same as someone who stayed in a suite.

 

My main comment is that I don't understand why Azamara has to copy Celebrity in the way it hands out points because there are only 2 ships and also all of the pricing is so much higher. They don't have the same issue with retired people living in Florida taking last minute 3 and 4 nights cruises at rock bottom prices and accumulating the same amount of points as someone who was taking an 11 night cruise on Celebrity.

 

OK. If what you are saying is that Celebrity needed the points system for the reasons you cite but ACC do not necessarily then I agree. I am guessing that as long as Celebrity "operates" the LCV system for ACC that compatibility issues would be a driver for ACC to follow the leader. But I am still unconvinced that ACC needed to slow the climb up the loyalty ladder as it seems to unnecessarily create issues.

[2fromTO]

I echo many of the concerns expressed here.

 

My main source of frustration has been the piece meal manner in which Azamara has "launched" the new program. Any information about the changes have been gleaned from cruise critic posts and extrapolated from Celebrity's website. Despite no official announcement, it appears from the latest AZ post on this thread that the new program is operational, albeit without the implementation of the new benefits, and that we will each receive an email in mid-January letting us know our point count and tier level. Really? I will believe it when I receive it, hopefully before my upcoming February 3rd cruise.

 

Why not communicate the details of the new program through an official announcement and an updated website?

 

AZ could learn from Celebrity. Even though I have never sailed on Celebrity, I was able to go to its website, register in the Captain's Club with my LCV number, retrieve my cruising history, find out how many points I had, find out how and when they were converted to the new system, and to figure out how many more cruise days I needed to reach Elite status. And, I was able to do all this in November when Celebrity launched the new program. Why is it taking AZ so long to provide comparable information to its loyal customers?

 

A secondary disappointment relates to the shifting of the goal posts and how it impacts those of us that were very close to reaching the next tier. I had expected to achieve Discoverer status after the 1st segment of an upcoming b2b cruise. With the goal post set at 310 points (Elite status on Celebrity requires only 300 points) and despite the bonus points awarded when my points were converted, I will not achieve this level until after the cruise is completed. Not too important in the grand scheme of things but a definitely a disappointment. Not a great way to build loyalty.

[Spursgirl]

I am grateful for any benefits my loyalty to Azamara and Celebrity gives me. When converting my points it appears that I will now be Discoverer + level.

 

Any additional perks will be great and appreciated but I think the roll out should have been announced at the same time as Celebrity.

 

As others have commented these changes have been in the mix for more than a year

[ellbon]

I am grateful for any benefits my loyalty to Azamara and Celebrity gives me. When converting my points it appears that I will now be Discoverer + level.

 

Any additional perks will be great and appreciated but I think the roll out should have been announced at the same time as Celebrity.

 

As others have commented these changes have been in the mix for more than a year

 

I agree that the perks should of started the same day as Celebrity. I am on all winter so any extra laundry or internet minutes would if been nice.

 

Not sure what else they can give us as we get free good coffee all day long.

[AzamaraJoel]

Hello everyone, below you'll find an update on this from Signe, our Director of Global Marketing:

 

We have been reading through some of the responses to our recent post regarding the changes to the Le Club Voyage program, and we really appreciate your feedback! Here are a couple of additional clarifications:

 

As part of the larger Royal Caribbean Cruises Limited Corporation, in certain areas of our business we are tied to corporate back-end systems. This is the case with the Le Club Voyage program. The back-end system calculations are based on Celebrity Cruises Captain's Club program. Because we need to stay within certain system parameters, this doesn’t currently allow us to customize a specific Azamara loyalty program as far as the tier set-up at this time. The new point system is based on rewarding length of voyage, as well as stateroom category booked.

 

Regarding the new point levels, the system was set up so that in the majority of cases you will move into the same level as your current level. We are seeing from your comments that there may be some issues with this on the calculations as the point system has been converted. We will need to do some research on these cases and get back to you with an update. From past test and current point conversions we so far have not had any issues documented. Because of the upcoming New Year's holiday it will take some time to respond, but we will hopefully get back to you by end of this week or early next week. Thanks for your patience!

 

In terms of the timing of the changes taking place: The plan always was to separate the Azamara communication from the Celebrity announcement. While the back-end systems are the same, the benefits and product delivery is separate and unique to Le Club Voyage, and it has taken us a bit longer to plan and implement the changes following Celebrity's implementation. As indicated in our previous post, you will receive an email in your inbox in mid-January with the information regarding the changes in point structure, new levels and benefits to the program.

 

And one more item to address: A member on this thread mentioned they had received our new 2014-2015 "brochure", and that it is "cheap". We appreciate the feedback, but would like to clarify that what you have received in the mail is not our main brochure. As our product is usually sold 8 - 12 months ahead of time, the full 2014 brochure had run out of stock and we had to produce a smaller version to hold us over until our New 2015 brochure is printed and made available. Our 2014 voyages are very well booked, our larger 2015 Destination Guide is still being printed, and will be available towards the end of January 2014.

 

Thank you again for your feedback! We really appreciate all your comments and we’ll do our best to get back to you with more information as soon as possible.

 

We hope this information will provide you with further clarity on changes to the LCV and we will follow up on the outstanding items you have presented.

 

Best regards,

Signe Bjorndal

Director of Global Marketing

Azamara Club Cruises

[excitedofharpenden]

Hi Joel. Thanks for posting an update, but to be honest I read it as a lot of words that didn't really seem to answer any of the questions, certainly mine. It's also left me a bit confused with reference to staying in the same category as we are now in most cases. I was Discoverer, but under the new points system appears I will be Discoverer Plus and am guessing from reading through your posts that this will be confirmed in January. What I was getting at is the reference to no additional benefits within the to new levels until the second quarter of 2014 which seems odd to me. I'm taking it that 2nd quarter will mean some time between March and June. I'm taking three cruises in April/May hence my interest in this last point!

 

Phil

[marinaro44]

And no explanation as to why inside and oceanview staterooms are awarded the same number of points while a Club Continent suite somehow deserves 2 2/3 times as many points as a veranda.

[Kellie Poodle]

And no explanation as to why inside and oceanview staterooms are awarded the same number of points while a Club Continent suite somehow deserves 2 2/3 times as many points as a veranda.

 

 

I agree about the inside and outside needing different awards. I'm not familiar with Continent suites to comment, but it seems a bit thigh to me as well.

 

I'll never make it to the next level above Elite/Discover, so it doesn't much matter to me, but I can see where it would be a bone of contention.

[nonrev1]

I was very disappointed with the changes and how they were calculated. Because of Azamara's price-point, the points should be higher on Azamara versus Celebrity. A 2 week Balcony should be more points than an inside cabin for 2 weeks. We were given 2 points for that cruise. We were given only 2 points for a suite booked for 11 days on Azamara. They told be that if I booked the suite after the new program goes in place then I would get a lot more points. I don't understand why I get more points after the new program and was "penalized" in the conversion. When a program is developed - you have to compare apples to apples. The points earned on Celebrity should not be the same as you earn on Azamara. In most cases, the Azamara cruise prices are far more than doubled and the destinations are much more expensive to get to vs. Celebrity's.

Just my two cents.

[TommyD3]

I have sailed Azamara three times.

 

I am Zenith on Celebrity with over 5000 points. I received Celebrity credit for each of my Azamara cruises.

 

On the Celebrity web site I can log into "My Celebrity" and see my entire cruise history with my current point total. This includes my three Azamara sailings.

 

On the Azamara web site "My Azamara" does not allow me to see my cruise history or point total.

 

Is there a plan to update "My Azamara" to be comparable to "My Celebrity"?

 

Thanks.

[excitedofharpenden]

 

On the Azamara web site "My Azamara" does not allow me to see my cruise history or point total.

 

Is there a plan to update "My Azamara" to be comparable to "My Celebrity"?

 

Thanks.

The news releases so far indicate that there won't be any separation of Celebrity and Azamara in terms of points earning and you'll earn points on both lines for the credit of one account (as it is now) so I'm not sure there's any value in splitting it off and have a "My Azamara". Might just as well use the "My Celebrity" page to look up your history and you'll be able to see which cruises are on Azamara. Of more use would be bringing the functionality of managing the individual Azamara reservations back which has been gone sometime and I find a pain.

 

Phil

[Going Coastal]

In her New Years greeting today, my vacation planner at Azamara said the announcement would be Jan 15.

My history on Celebrity secure page shows all Azamara cruises also.

Only new brochure received here is small one showing cruises with complimentary excursions in 2015.

Happy New Year to all.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[Going Coastal]

Oops, meant 2014. The brochure was interesting to me because it showed three choices for each port.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[Xport]

Hi Joel. Thanks for posting an update, but to be honest I read it as a lot of words that didn't really seem to answer any of the questions, certainly mine. It's also left me a bit confused with reference to staying in the same category as we are now in most cases. I was Discoverer, but under the new points system appears I will be Discoverer Plus and am guessing from reading through your posts that this will be confirmed in January. What I was getting at is the reference to no additional benefits within the to new levels until the second quarter of 2014 which seems odd to me. I'm taking it that 2nd quarter will mean some time between March and June. I'm taking three cruises in April/May hence my interest in this last point!

 

Only my upcoming 42 nights on Journey happen to run from early February through mid-March...

 

While I too am appreciative of the update, I remain flabbergasted that Azamara apparently thinks it's okay to have implemented the new Club Points accrual system while deferring implementation of improved benefits for those who have already earned assignment into one of the new membership tiers until some undefined future date during Second Quarter... For those of us caught in the cusp, it certainly does take the buzz off having learned of our new status via the early previews of the LCV changes here by Bill [easily anticipated after the Captain's Club announcement; cruisers loyal to Celebrity/Azamara have long known of the ties between the two in terms of loyalty accounting systems, could easily predict that Azamara and Celebrity have more emergent needs competing for systems development funding, and those facts came as no surprise to Azamara leadership either] only to find out that Azamara has yet to define what those new loyalty levels mean and apparently assigns no urgency to doing so... By doing things as announced, it's a win/win financially to Azamara--though I can't imagine that the financial impact is material when measured against guest goodwill-- and shows disregard for those with the highest levels of proven loyalty to the Celebrity and Azamara brands... Gee; thanks!

 

A few other things are true...

 

Information systems are intended to support management goals and not to serve as an impediment or subterfuge to doing the right thing... Celebrity apparently made system adjustments--via award of extra Cruise Points--for those who would be further away from achieving Elite status under new Club rules... Similarly, if Azamara subscribes to the suggestion--as some have posted here--that, for instance, a night in an Azamara verandah stateroom should be valued higher for loyalty purposes than a night in a Celebrity verandah from a cost perspective, one could easily program that--behind the scenes and without changing the cabin categories used publicly--to recognize an Azamara verandah stateroom as a Celebrity Aquaclass or Concierge Class stateroom for loyalty purposes; it's not an expensive fix... And finally, Azamara could--if it chose to do so, it would probably take no more than a fairly brief and simple spreadsheet and a bit of manual intervention [surely a protocol exists for account corrections]--provide additional Cruise Points, calculated via the Celebrity conversion formula of 30 new Cruise Points per former Cruise Credit--to those who have attained a higher level of LCV membership status before Azamara is prepared to provide the yet undefined benefit improvements associated with those new membership tiers...

 

The recent Captain's Club changes have been rumored for years and have been a virtual certainty for months... I--and I'm sure others--was made aware of their impending implementation [it actually occurred later than some initially expected] by a variety of managers/officers--without details--during multiple sailings on Celebrity between March and July 2013... Surely Azamara leadership could not have been caught off-guard and, as such, the lack of preparedness--now interestingly portrayed as a need to assert a unique operational identification for Azamara/Le Club Voyage--suggests instead, from a guest perspective, a lack of managerial priority... That's quite a statement...

 

It is said that "where there's a will; there's a way"... Sadly, the "will" seems to have been lacking to do things in a cohesive, concurrent, timely manner with excellent, candid communication [i don't envy your job, Joel, and do appreciate your efforts]... Guests don't have to like every aspect of what unfolds and, once again--I do not personally deny Azamara the right to make changes; I understand/respect the need for them--but it strikes me that Azamara has missed the proverbial boat in rolling this out... It could have been flawlessly/logically executed from a guest perspective and could have garnered guest respect for a job well done regardless of message...

 

--Mike