Norovirus Outbreak Hits Royal Caribbean Cruise Ship

[styles27]

No Excuse for berating a crew member doing his job. I hope you are not trying to defend the type of passenger in the example described.

BTW the restrooms on the Maasdam and sister ships in that class that this example refers to are right smack at the back of the Lido right where the buffet line starts....

However, I will agree with you that using hand sanitizer provided by the ship or your own brand is an extra precaution and not a cure to washing

 

You are a true optimist about people handwashing for the required amount of time and the saniizers on the ship contain either alcohol or hydrogen peroxide.......Read the posts about the percentage of men/women that have seen people NOT Wash hands.....

 

No I certainly am not 'trying to defend the type of passenger" who berates ANYONE crew or fellow passenger....I am simply pointing out to you that just because YOU saw somebody "pass" on the use of a PUBLIC hand sanitizer that 100's of hands have touched...doesn't mean that person hasn't properly washed their hands.

 

 

I've been on many cruises and thankfully have been lucky enough to never sail on an infected ship.

 

Common sense prevails here. Every one of us has seen people use the restroom and not properly wash their hands...it happens everywhere, not just on a cruise ship.

 

Most if not all hand sanitizers used on ships contain alcohol....alcohol does not kill this virus.

Bleach does....don't know about your claim that h2o2 does, however I've yet to find a hand sanitizer in the retail market that contains bleach or h2o2 (hydrogen perozide).

 

 

edit to add....I can't keep up with your edits...your original post that I quoted contains info that you removed from your edited post. So am I to assume the h2o2 info you posted isn't a confirmed claim? I hadn't heard it before.

Edited January 27, 2014 by styles27

[styles27]

BTW the "communal hand sanitizers" on cruise ships are hands free....you don't actually "touch" them. I for one would like to set a good example for Joe Blow behind me that DIDN'T wash his hands, a little hand sanitizer is better than nothing IMHO.

 

 

Some are hands free but not all are...especially the ones I've seen at the ports when coming back on board.

 

Of course a little hand sanitizer is better than nothing, however it's not enough.

[Keasel]

I know they are talking about a thorough cleaning of the ship, but I sure hope they do a thorough cleaning in the cruise terminal in Bayonne too. Wouldn't make sense to do one without doing the other.:rolleyes: People could have gotten the illness in the terminal and not on the ship itself, then spread it once on board.

 

Gwen :)

 

 

And the buses that take you from the terminal to the ship.

[OBX-Cruisers]

"I am simply pointing out to you that just because YOU saw somebody "pass" on the use of a PUBLIC hand sanitizer that 100's of hands have touched...doesn't mean that person hasn't properly washed their hands."

 

I think we agree on the fact hand sanitizer alone is not good enough. We should also agree that washing hands is essential"

On Celebrity and HAL the crew member squirts the sanizer onto your hands outside the buffet..........you don't touch anything. In other cases the dispensers are electronic and you only put your hand under them.......you do not need to touch them at all. Then there is the last case you refer to with the dispensers you push lever.............we again agree that those are the worst but there are also few if any of those on the ships we have been on.

[DCwom]

And the buses that take you from the terminal to the ship.

 

And the aircraft that take you to the terminal... The Norovirus is everywhere, it's just easy to count the infected on a contained ship.

[dsmith4675]

Thought this was interesting... http://news.yahoo.com/caribbean-cruise-ended-outbreak-illness-033110452.html

Over 500 have gotten sick! Scary thought :eek:

[Aquahound]

Folks....When you see someone walk away from a toilet and then right out the door, it's obvious what just happened. When you see someone walk past the sanitizer without using it, it is not so obvious.

 

I have dry skin and the alcohol in sanitizers makes my hands sensitive and sometimes makes them chap. I have to use it sparingly. So, I am one of those persons you might see walk right past it. But trust me, I did just wash my hands thoroughly in hot water. Don't be so quick to judge someone not using sanitizer.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Aquahound

[Mapleleafforever]

Folks....When you see someone walk away from a toilet and then right out the door, it's obvious what just happened. When you see someone walk past the sanitizer without using it, it is not so obvious.

 

I have dry skin and the alcohol in sanitizers makes my hands sensitive and sometimes makes them chap. I have to use it sparingly. So, I am one of those persons you might see walk right past it. But trust me, I did just wash my hands thoroughly in hot water. Don't be so quick to judge someone not using sanitizer.

 

There are quite a few people who have the same problem with alcohol based sanitizers so don't worry about it. They're ineffective against Noro anyway.

[LilLady]

I need a little clarification I think...

 

I have not cruised before (looking to go on our first cruise in Nov of this year). Does RCCL have a crew member present to make sure pax use a hand sanitizer before entering the MDR or buffet? If so, how does the virus get spread in the dining areas, if everyone has been sanitized?

 

Do alcohol based hand sanitizers work on the Norovirus germs? I have seen some people say they don't, but CDC website says that they do. (Of course, soap & water handwashing is the best)

[quiltsnh]

It usually causes a delay in sailing while the crew does a massive cleaning of the ship. That ship will be cleaner than its ever been after that virus outbreak..LOL.

 

We were on a RCCL ship after a Noro outbreak a couple years ago. We were told not to arrive at the port until after 5PM. When we boarded there was no self serve in the buffet, no sugar bowls or creamers. Salt and pepper were in the form of packets. The waiter held the menu and talked about the offerings for that night. And they had cleaned the ship from top to bottom. And continued to do so during the cruise. So the sailing after Noro was very clean.

[styles27]

Folks....When you see someone walk away from a toilet and then right out the door, it's obvious what just happened. When you see someone walk past the sanitizer without using it, it is not so obvious.

 

 

Agree

[styles27]

I need a little clarification I think...

 

I have not cruised before (looking to go on our first cruise in Nov of this year). Does RCCL have a crew member present to make sure pax use a hand sanitizer before entering the MDR or buffet? If so, how does the virus get spread in the dining areas, if everyone has been sanitized?

 

Do alcohol based hand sanitizers work on the Norovirus germs? I have seen some people say they don't, but CDC website says that they do. (Of course, soap & water handwashing is the best)

 

 

 

No, alcohol based hand sanitizers do not kill Noro..that's one of the problems. The main issue is that people aren't properly washing their hands.

 

 

Edit to add....the CDC website says that they do kill the Noro virus? Where? I've just been on the CDC Noro Virus page and read that the sanitizers alone do NOT kill Noro...they can be used in addition to proper hand washing but not in place of.

Edited January 27, 2014 by styles27

[pkexton]

A lot of the times when I am at the gym there are so many people that after running on a treadmill, riding a bike, etc. just walk off and not wipe down the machines. I have gotten into the habit of wiping it down beforehand before I use any machines (I also wiped them down afterwards).

 

Pat

[rubrrick]

Folks....When you see someone walk away from a toilet and then right out the door, it's obvious what just happened. When you see someone walk past the sanitizer without using it, it is not so obvious.

 

I have dry skin and the alcohol in sanitizers makes my hands sensitive and sometimes makes them chap. I have to use it sparingly. So, I am one of those persons you might see walk right past it. But trust me, I did just wash my hands thoroughly in hot water. Don't be so quick to judge someone not using sanitizer.

 

We have cruised together and also know the position that you hold on land, and you are one of the most conscientious people that watch their hygene habits.

 

My DW also has very sensitive skin, and while she is very careful with hand washing, she will put her hand under the sanitizer and then dump most out, before wiping her hands together. She carries her own sanitizer, but knows it's the hand washing process that is the best preventitive for Noro.

 

We have experienced two cruises, which I believe that I have written about earlier, where the crew were bleaching 24/7 to try to keep the Noro contained.

 

I feel so bad for all of those on the Explorer, both passengers and staff. When an outbreak like this occurs, the staff gets very little sleep, as they are pulling double duty, the second one being the continual spraying or wiping down of all surfaces.

 

My prayers goes out to all onboard!

 

Rick

[ahecht]

Do alcohol based hand sanitizers work on the Norovirus germs? I have seen some people say they don't, but CDC website says that they do. (Of course, soap & water handwashing is the best)

 

The short answer is no, they don't. Alcohol is great at killing bacteria, but not so great at neutralizing viruses.

 

The longer answer is that Purell provides a special stronger formula to the cruise industry that has shown some minor effectiveness against noro, but it's still not close to 100%.

Edited January 27, 2014 by ahecht

[LilLady]

Edit to add....the CDC website says that they do kill the Noro virus? Where? I've just been on the CDC Noro Virus page and read that the sanitizers alone do NOT kill Noro...they can be used in addition to proper hand washing but not in place of.

 

What I saw was that if soap & water was not available, that alcohol hand sanitizers would "greatly reduce" the germs. It didn't say that it "Killed" the virus.

 

Personally, I prefer hand washing over those hand sanitizers. But alas, many people do not wash their hands for a long enough time to do any good.

[mo&fran]

We are on this cruise. If they give us free internet I will come back. We are B2B but no information about how they will handle it is coming yet.

And yes, I got it, and am over it now. DW did not. I thought that I would write a little of diary of events and post them here.

 

Francis

[Winchester Ranger]

Most shipborne outbreaks of Norovirus can be traced back to contaminated feces in food, once infected the patients themselves become the vector and spread the disease to other passengers by touch and "aerosolization" - i.e. they cough or sneeze on you.

 

Like it or not the most likely source for this outbreak is a kitchen worker who is a carrier, probably been carrying the virus for years with a natural immunity as do many from the sub-continent because they have to constantly live with such diseases. One day he doesn't wash his hands and feces remain embedded under his fingernails, he returns to his station and starts washing the salad..........end of cruise.

[Merion_Mom]

We are on this cruise. If they give us free internet I will come back. We are B2B but no information about how they will handle it is coming yet.

And yes, I got it, and am over it now. DW did not. I thought that I would write a little of diary of events and post them here.

 

Francis

 

Francis, thank you so much for posting. I am glad that you are feeling better. And congratulations on not passing it on to your DW! :) ;)

 

We are all very interested in how everyone is doing, what the "atmosphere" on the ship is like now, and whatever they tell you.

[jerseyralph]

I need a little clarification I think...

 

I have not cruised before (looking to go on our first cruise in Nov of this year). Does RCCL have a crew member present to make sure pax use a hand sanitizer before entering the MDR or buffet? If so, how does the virus get spread in the dining areas, if everyone has been sanitized?

 

Do alcohol based hand sanitizers work on the Norovirus germs? I have seen some people say they don't, but CDC website says that they do. (Of course, soap & water handwashing is the best)

 

Congratulations on your first cruise! Cruising is wonderful and so is the anticipation waiting for it to happen. Enjoy!

 

Here is the reality of norovirus and cruising. Noro is everywhere. I am very aware of it for a few reasons. First, I am a cancer patient who had a bone marrow transplant last year. I came out of the transplant with no immunity and still require IVIG infusions each month. (Only $35,000 each!) I still am getting my baby immunizations.

 

Second, I am an avid cruiser. We have taken five in the last year. (I consider them therapeutic, my oncologist not so much:).

 

Third, my husband and I both had Noro on a cruise. He showed symptoms while we were on the ship. I had terrible symptoms a few hours after we got off the ship. What was interesting was three couples had sat together on our last day of cruising. We had the same waitress for a few hours. We hugged when we said good bye. Three of us began showing awful symptoms within 24 hours of each other. Did we get it from the waitress? Was it on the table? Was one of us positive for it and gave it to the others while hugging? Did we get it from the handrail three of us held on to as we came down the atrium steps? We don't know and we never will.

 

The opportunities to pick up Noro are everywhere, not only the dining room. The close quarters on a ship make it so easy to transmit. Winter cruises make it even more prevalent because everyone is inside. Can a bartender wash his/her hands every time they touch an empty glass? The answer is no.

 

We must be super-careful when we wash our hands. Do it right! Using the hand sanitizer stuff is a good idea, but not the solution. Keeping your hands away from your face also should help.

 

Enjoy yourself!

 

Gina

[tabbi_cakes]

This whole thread scares me because I am in the bad habit of constantly touching my face.

 

I have about 8.5 months to break this habit.

[At Sea 4Ever]

Folks....When you see someone walk away from a toilet and then right out the door, it's obvious what just happened. When you see someone walk past the sanitizer without using it, it is not so obvious.

 

 

 

I have dry skin and the alcohol in sanitizers makes my hands sensitive and sometimes makes them chap. I have to use it sparingly. So, I am one of those persons you might see walk right past it. But trust me, I did just wash my hands thoroughly in hot water. Don't be so quick to judge someone not using sanitizer.

 

 

I agree with you! Sometimes my hands are in such bad shape that using alcohol is just extremely painful. You wouldn't understand unless you have experienced this for yourself! Needless to say my DH and I are constantly washing our hands the proper way, before and after everything. Things we are aware of that sometimes get looked over by people are the pens from the bartenders. Just think about how many passengers have used that one pen. Or what about the keyboard in the computer labs. Or the handrails on the stairs or the sea pass cards themselves. We are always and I mean always washing our hands. What royal really needs to do is have a "washy washy" person in the bathrooms monitoring people who have not washed hands or touch the doors!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[flexsmom]

I am sorry folks are having this unfortunate experience. I seldomly hear about noro virus outbreaks on luxury cruise lines, but I assume their passenger volume is much lower.

 

Actually there's a thread on the Regent board about one of their ships in Australia that is battling the same. Said to be 10% there, too, although as you say, smaller in total numbers since fewer pax and crew.

[OBX-Cruisers]

Congratulations on your first cruise! Cruising is wonderful and so is the anticipation waiting for it to happen. Enjoy!

 

Here is the reality of norovirus and cruising. Noro is everywhere. I am very aware of it for a few reasons. First, I am a cancer patient who had a bone marrow transplant last year. I came out of the transplant with no immunity and still require IVIG infusions each month. (Only $35,000 each!) I still am getting my baby immunizations.

 

Second, I am an avid cruiser. We have taken five in the last year. (I consider them therapeutic, my oncologist not so much:).

 

Third, my husband and I both had Noro on a cruise. He showed symptoms while we were on the ship. I had terrible symptoms a few hours after we got off the ship. What was interesting was three couples had sat together on our last day of cruising. We had the same waitress for a few hours. We hugged when we said good bye. Three of us began showing awful symptoms within 24 hours of each other. Did we get it from the waitress? Was it on the table? Was one of us positive for it and gave it to the others while hugging? Did we get it from the handrail three of us held on to as we came down the atrium steps? We don't know and we never will.

 

The opportunities to pick up Noro are everywhere, not only the dining room. The close quarters on a ship make it so easy to transmit. Winter cruises make it even more prevalent because everyone is inside. Can a bartender wash his/her hands every time they touch an empty glass? The answer is no.

 

We must be super-careful when we wash our hands. Do it right! Using the hand sanitizer stuff is a good idea, but not the solution. Keeping your hands away from your face also should help.

 

Enjoy yourself!

 

Gina

 

EXCELLENT advice.......totally agree that you CAN cruise safely if you follow simple rules and keep your hands away from your nose and mouth and at least try not to eat anything with your fingers (my problem area).

 

Others may have already posted this but the following article from the CDC should be a standard handout on all cruises..and bears repeating...It is in 8 languages and sums up the issues very well. This seems a heck of a lot more important than all the other "daily" saies and promotional sheets they leave in the cabin. These instructions should be posted in each cabin or at least be available on the ship channel. CC should have a highly visible link to this site. FYI: when they do a stage 2 decontamination they use 2% hydrogen peroxide in those squirt bottles, I know I looked, and it is my business to get approvals for antimicrobial products with the EPA and EFFICACY is one of the big issues. It may not be approved as a skin sanitizer with the FDA but it works and doesn't dry out your skin if you are sensitive to the alcohol ones.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/pub/Handwashing/HandwashingTips.htm

Edited January 27, 2014 by skiron

[m*u*g*]

They left in a terrible snow storm.

 

 

Bayonne? Why RCI, why?