No communication from Celebrity on a cruise scheduled to go to Israel

[Orator]

Perhaps this thread should be merged with the thread started by Miaminice. Same topic, same arguments (including mine), many of the same posters. One can read the response made by Celebrity Cruises and draw their own conclusions. My reading of the statement is that we have nothing to announce at this time because we are too far out to announce anything. No response is a response. Perhaps not the 100% guarantee that some might desire, but a response. Past actions indicate to me that Celebrity will visit Israel as scheduled if the Port Authority says that it is safe. Celebrity will make a substitution if the Israeli Port Authority says it's unsafe and prohibits docking as they did on one of my cruises. Take it for what you wish and do whatever makes you comfortable. Your money, your choices.

[elena7seas]

Most people complain because Celebrity won't tell them whether or not their cruise will visit Israeli ports. Your friends have a different complaint. They appear to want written confirmation from Celebrity that their cruise will not visit ports in Israel if it is unsafe because of hostilities.

 

In the ticket contract, Celebrity states:

 

By way of example, and not limitation, Carrier may, without liability; (except as provided in Section 6(e) with respect to mechanical failures only), deviate from any scheduled sailing and may otherwise land Passenger and her property at any port if Carrier believes that the voyage or any Passenger or property may be hindered or adversely affected as a result of hostilities, blockages, prevailing weather conditions, labor conflicts, strikes onboard or ashore, breakdown of Vessel, congestion, docking difficulties, medical or life saving emergencies or any other cause whatsoever.

 

In effect, by saying they may skip a port because of hostilities, Celebrity is indicating that passenger and vessel safety is of concern to them and that they will not knowingly subject passengers to dangerous ports. IMO, it would be foolish legally for Celebrity to guarantee safety. They would open themselves to more complaints and/or litigation about whether a port was safe or unsafe.

 

I'm sorry your friends will miss their cruise. However, if they insist on a guarantee of safety that no cruiseline will provide, it is probably best that they cancelled.

 

Dave

 

In my post, I didn't say anything about my friends asking for a guarantee of safety.

 

They would just like a statement from Celebrity that if the conditions in the Israeli ports are similar to those that have prevailed in the last 10 days, that Celebrity will not sail into those ports. This seems like a no-brainer to us...of course Celebrity would not sail into Ashdod under today's conditions, but my friends are concerned. They feel that if Celebrity will not undertake a commitment not to sail into Israel under current conditions, there must be a reason why, and this does not provide them with the confidence that you or I might have.

[Honeybearhollow]

If Israel is the only reason to go, IMHO, your only recourse is to cancel and maybe rebook for next year and hope things will calm down. There is no way anyone can guess what will actually be happening in three months. What can Celebrity really tell you that we don't already know. They will go in if it is safe and they won't if it isn't. But there is also the propulsion problem on the Silhouette this year, which seems to be cutting 4 hours out of the Israel port. That shouldn't be a problem next year. I understand what you are going through. I've been trying to cruise to Egypt for several years and was originally booked on the Oct 18 cruise. I rebooked for next year, but still not going to Egypt.

[Cruising89143]

If Israel is the only reason to go, IMHO, your only recourse is to cancel and maybe rebook for next year and hope things will calm down. There is no way anyone can guess what will actually be happening in three months. What can Celebrity really tell you that we don't already know. They will go in if it is safe and they won't if it isn't. But there is also the propulsion problem on the Silhouette this year, which seems to be cutting 4 hours out of the Israel port. That shouldn't be a problem next year. I understand what you are going through. I've been trying to cruise to Egypt for several years and was originally booked on the Oct 18 cruise. I rebooked for next year, but still not going to Egypt.

 

I'm trying to understand why this is so hard for some to figure out. If conditions in three months are like they are today do they really think that X would cruise to those ports? I'm shaking my head over some of the posts on this thread.

Edited July 18, 2014 by cruisingator2

[DaveFr]

In my post, I didn't say anything about my friends asking for a guarantee of safety.

 

They would just like a statement from Celebrity that if the conditions in the Israeli ports are similar to those that have prevailed in the last 10 days, that Celebrity will not sail into those ports. This seems like a no-brainer to us...of course Celebrity would not sail into Ashdod under today's conditions, but my friends are concerned. They feel that if Celebrity will not undertake a commitment not to sail into Israel under current conditions, there must be a reason why, and this does not provide them with the confidence that you or I might have.

It's certainly a matter of semantics. Your friends correctly believe the current situation in Israel is unsafe. Thus, to me, they want Celebrity to guarantee their safety by agreeing in writing not to visit ports in Israel under similar circumstances to today's state of affairs.

 

The problem with such a written statement is the concept of a "similar" situation. How do you define "similar?" It is such an amorphous word that its use would invite complaints and litigation. Depending on whether it is claimed that a port in Israel or elsewhere should or should not have been visited, passengers and their attorneys could contend that the situation in a particular port was or was not similar to the situation in Israel today. It would be a mess IMO. :D

 

Dave

[Celebrity Cruises]

Hi all,

 

Celebrity Cruises is closely monitoring the situation in Israel. Celebrity Cruises is not scheduled to call to ports in Israel until October 2014. At this time, Celebrity Cruises has not changed any itinerary for sailings that include a port call to Israel. We will continue to closely monitor the situation and will contact guests or their travel agents should we make any modifications to upcoming itineraries. The safety and security, of our guests and crew members is always foremost in our minds.

[Orator]

Hi all,

 

Celebrity Cruises is closely monitoring the situation in Israel. Celebrity Cruises is not scheduled to call to ports in Israel until October 2014. At this time, Celebrity Cruises has not changed any itinerary for sailings that include a port call to Israel. We will continue to closely monitor the situation and will contact guests or their travel agents should we make any modifications to upcoming itineraries. The safety and security, of our guests and crew members is always foremost in our minds.

 

That's about all you can say. I believe that any decision you make will be based on passenger safety. Safety has always been your first concern.

 

Thank you.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Orator

[elena7seas]

Hi all,

 

Celebrity Cruises is closely monitoring the situation in Israel. Celebrity Cruises is not scheduled to call to ports in Israel until October 2014. At this time, Celebrity Cruises has not changed any itinerary for sailings that include a port call to Israel. We will continue to closely monitor the situation and will contact guests or their travel agents should we make any modifications to upcoming itineraries. The safety and security, of our guests and crew members is always foremost in our minds.

 

Thank you very much, Celebrity Cruises, for this statement. Although most of us take this for granted, there are those, particularly new cruisers, who appreciate seeing this commitment in print.

[Gracie115]

Can you remember what Celebrity put in place when they cancelled the Ashdod stops in 2011?? It would be really helpful to know what has been done in the past.

 

There have been a number of posts regarding this issue and on the whole the OP's have had a hard time from other CC members (its easy to be flippant if it doesn't directly affect you!).

 

It would be really helpfull to me and the rest of us who are affected by this and much more in the spirit of CC if other members could let us know what Celebrity have done in the past as it may provide an indication of what they might do this time if, as looks likely, the troubles continue.

 

I suspect that most people who have booked this cruise consider Israel to be the highlight if not an essential component of this cruise , otherwise they would have booked one of the many predominantly Italian or Greek itineraries. I also doubt that many people wish to cancel if they can help it but are understandably worried about shelling out 10's of thousands of dollars on a pot luck itinerary.

 

It also seems clear that, rather disappointingly, Celebrity are unwilling to give us any help prior to final payment (which in itself only inflates the concern that the alternative will not be very attractive) so they have turned to other CC members in the hope that they might just be able to provide the confidence from their experience to allow them to take the risk of not cancelling.

 

There are clearly no guarantees but i would be more than happy to settle for an informed balance of probability!

Anyone actually want to help rather than carp!

 

As I recall one of the cruises had Istanbul as an alternative port and another wound up docking in Haifa instead of Ashdod. So that cruise was still able to visit Israel, albeit from farther north. At the time one of the missiles had hit in the Ashdod area which was why the cruiseline moved the port, once cancelling entirely and as I said moving north for the other. People still were able to visit and as I understand it ALL private tours still accommodated those booked but it did mean VERY long days for those who wanted to visit Masada, Dead Sea areas, which we did from Ashdod and was still a long day. I don't know if X tours to Dead Sea/Masada area still went on or not.

 

I COMPLETELY understand the frustration people are having....we were so sad when Egypt got cancelled on that trip, my DH's dream was to see the Pyramids.... but I also understand Celebrity not being able to say anything more than they just recently posted on this thread...that they are monitoring the situation and will make a decision closer to the date depending on the level of violence occurring at the time..... there is just NO way for them to assure that all will be well and the stops will go on as planned....OR to say they won't.....tough situation....only time can answer....so as I said before if Israel is a make or break for you I would probably cancel and plan a land trip....

[elena7seas]

It's certainly a matter of semantics. Your friends correctly believe the current situation in Israel is unsafe. Thus, to me, they want Celebrity to guarantee their safety by agreeing in writing not to visit ports in Israel under similar circumstances to today's state of affairs.

 

The problem with such a written statement is the concept of a "similar" situation. How do you define "similar?" It is such an amorphous word that its use would invite complaints and litigation. Depending on whether it is claimed that a port in Israel or elsewhere should or should not have been visited, passengers and their attorneys could contend that the situation in a particular port was or was not similar to the situation in Israel today. It would be a mess IMO. :D

 

Dave

 

Understood.

 

My overall reason for posting on this thread was just that I have some compassion for those who may have concerns that are greater than my own in this situation.

 

Dave, I would also like to thank you for the respectful tone that you have taken in presenting your position. It's nice to have a conversation where people can bring forward differing points of view, without someone going for the jugular. ;)

[hcat]

So what you are saying is

1) You booked this just to go to Israel, and that port is important to you

2) You think it's unsafe there so X should cancel the port

 

In either circumstance, you would't be doing Israel as you feel it's unsafe, so you are best to cancel ASAP regardless as to if X does or does not modify this itinerary.

 

Not much more can be said....luckily air has not been purchased....general travel climate to several parts of the world intense right now....hard to believe all that is going on..no way to know what will happen but if the deadline is Now cancellation is the safest way.....Istanbul for Israel would not be a good swap for anyone wanting Israel!

Edited July 18, 2014 by hcat

[CI66774]

OP - I think you're being WAY unreasonable to expect Celebrity to inform you THREE months out whether it will cancel that port. We all know the Middle East is unstable - especially as it relates to Israel. Either sit back and take it as it comes or cancel.

[cruisegirl1]

Hi all,

 

Celebrity Cruises is closely monitoring the situation in Israel. Celebrity Cruises is not scheduled to call to ports in Israel until October 2014. At this time, Celebrity Cruises has not changed any itinerary for sailings that include a port call to Israel. We will continue to closely monitor the situation and will contact guests or their travel agents should we make any modifications to upcoming itineraries. The safety and security, of our guests and crew members is always foremost in our minds.

 

OK thanks.

 

I write as a company stockholder for almost 20 years continuously as well as a veteran cruiser of over 30 years. The decision to not properly inform/update passengers (until prompted by a message board and reaching only those few who know the site exists) or extend final payment/allow a refund later is wrong and short-sighted.

 

If Celebrity would have acknowledged that under the circumstances, final payment was extended or that passengers could cancel later ( celebrity could select a date) with full refund we would have been satisfied.

 

Too late for us, we are already cancelled and are looking for an alternate vacation.

 

Best wishes for safe travels to all .

M

[cruisegirl1]

OP - I think you're being WAY unreasonable to expect Celebrity to inform you THREE months out whether it will cancel that port. We all know the Middle East is unstable - especially as it relates to Israel. Either sit back and take it as it comes or cancel.

 

Of course there is no way to know what will happen in months I am not asking for any confirmation of an itinerary. I was hoping under the circumstances that Celebrity would make accommodations to final payment or cancellation rules.

 

M

[Phxazzcruisers]

OK thanks.

 

I write as a company stockholder for almost 20 years continuously as well as a veteran cruiser of over 30 years. The decision to not properly inform/update passengers (until prompted by a message board and reaching only those few who know the site exists) or extend final payment/allow a refund later is wrong and short-sighted.

 

If Celebrity would have acknowledged that under the circumstances, final payment was extended or that passengers could cancel later ( celebrity could select a date) with full refund we would have been satisfied.

 

Too late for us, we are already cancelled and are looking for an alternate vacation.

 

Best wishes for safe travels to all .

M

Sorry, but I find it hard to believe you are a shareholder and would expect Celebrity to do this. What you are asking is very wrong and short-sighted, as explained by the vast majority that have responded to your original post. You CANNOT expect a cruise line to know what will happen in the future, nor can you expect them, especially as a shareholder, to make exceptions and full refunds due to an act of war that is completely out of their control.

I think it is very good that you cancelled, as it seems it would be impossible to make you happy. If everything was calm today and war broke out a day before your cruise and they could not stop in Israel for the protection of all passengers, you would be expecting a full refund, which you would not be entitled to.

Sorry, I hope you can find an alternate vacation that will make you happy.

[WpgCruise]

OK thanks.

 

I write as a company stockholder for almost 20 years continuously as well as a veteran cruiser of over 30 years. The decision to not properly inform/update passengers (until prompted by a message board and reaching only those few who know the site exists) or extend final payment/allow a refund later is wrong and short-sighted.

 

If Celebrity would have acknowledged that under the circumstances, final payment was extended or that passengers could cancel later ( celebrity could select a date) with full refund we would have been satisfied.

 

Too late for us, we are already cancelled and are looking for an alternate vacation.

 

Best wishes for safe travels to all .

M

 

As a shareholder I would not condone Celebrity extending the Final payment date. Why should the Company assume the financial risk? As purchasers of the cruise we have the option to buy "Cancel for Any Reason" insurance from private insurance companies but to expect Celebrity to assume the risk is in my opinion a poor business decision

 

Celebrity has provided as much itenary information as they can, once again in my opinion. They have no ability to see into the future, and to expect them to do so is not realistic.

[A Sixth?]

I am so sad that, lately, so many people feel that they have to answer other posters' honest concerns with sarcasm.

 

Well, you have a thin skin I guess, or a crystal ball because trying to predict the politics of the Middle East three months from now is as unrealistic as predicting the weather... no, check that... it actually IS easier to predict the weather.

 

IMHO the OP is asking for something that can't be answered right now.... and as I was posting my comments the OP apparently cancelled the cruise because of the fact there can be no guarantee

Edited July 18, 2014 by A Sixth?

[TowandaUK]

Not much more can be said....luckily air has not been purchased....general travel climate to several parts of the world intense right now....hard to believe all that is going on..no way to know what will happen but if the deadline is Now cancellation is the safest way.....Istanbul for Israel would not be a good swap for anyone wanting Israel!

 

I'm booked on one of the Holy Land cruises. Would very much like to go to Israel - but only if safe in 3 months time. However if it proves necessary to cancel Israel I would be more than happy to be going to Istanbul. We have already had 2 Greek Islands substituted for Egypt and am not so keen to perhaps have another 2 Greek Islands! But at the end of the day, we shall make the most of wherever we end up. We plan to make final payment tomorrow and wait and see what happens.

[Phxazzcruisers]

I'm booked on one of the Holy Land cruises. Would very much like to go to Israel - but only if safe in 3 months time. However if it proves necessary to cancel Israel I would be more than happy to be going to Istanbul. We have already had 2 Greek Islands substituted for Egypt and am not so keen to perhaps have another 2 Greek Islands! But at the end of the day, we shall make the most of wherever we end up. We plan to make final payment tomorrow and wait and see what happens.

 

Great attitude. I do hope you enjoy your cruise !!!

[scifimonkey]

Clearly Celebrity cannot predict the situation in three months time, I don't expect them to, but it would be helpful and encourage me to complete my booking and probably a lot of others too if they could indicate just what they propose to do if they had to cancel the Israel ports.

Personally I do not think that that should be too much of a stretch for them as unless they plan to sail the ship in circles for 3 days they must already have a plan in place. ( if they do not then they are far less competent than I give them credit for). It would be disappointing to find that it was just another couple of Greek Islands but at least we could start some form of contingency planning to make sure that we could make the the very best of the alternative locations if the worst were to happen.

To find out about a change to the itinerary with little or no notice would reduce the potential of any alternative port,however superficially attractive, to a level where it would be unlikely dampen the disappointment of the passengers, disappointment that will raise a rash of claims and bad feeling that will undoubtedtly permeate these boards and the twittersphere for many months and maybe impact future sales well beyond those directly affected.

On the other hand if customers are preadvised of plan B they would have the opportunity to make their own contingency plan and more crucially could not complain to Celebrity that they were unaware of what would happen,in the event that Israel was not accessible, when they completed their booking.

I cannot see a downside to the release of a plan B. it does not commit them to do anything other than implement a declared contingency plan in the event that they cannot fulfil the original itinerary, a contingency plan that they almost certainly have in place already.

For this openness and transparency prior to final payment they are likely to get far less cancellations and a considerable amount of goodwill from their customers. Where is the problem with this?:confused:

[Cruising89143]

Any itinerary can change at any given time. Should Celebrity give a plan B for every cruise? There have been problems in the Middle East for eons and booking will always be a risk.

 

I still cannot believe what some expect a cruise line to do.

[scifimonkey]

Just where there is a clear and obvious risk to the published itinerary.

 

This would not be necessary very often as most risks are by their very nature last minute and unexpected and certainly not foreseeable before the final payment.

 

This is a clear and substantial risk, known to Celebrity in advance of receiving payment for their service. It is not a single port day but three port days, it is a large section of the cruise and furthermore the fundamental basis of the cruise description.

It is therefore a fairly unique situation.

 

Celebrity probably have no obligation to advise on the alternative due to the lengthy disclaimer in their conditions but to do so and clarify what their customers might actually be paying for would remove the uncertainty which will otherwise inevitably lead to significant cancellations and bad feeling amongst customers,(both those who cancel and those who continue but then get a much amended itinerary post payment).

 

It seems to me that publishing the alternative port itinerary in this case would reduce cancellations and underscore good customer service at zero risk.

 

Would I pay $15,000 for a 14day cruise with the risk of 8 sea days? No

Would I pay$15,000 if there was a risk that the Israel ports would be replaced by Istanbul and Cyprus when cancelling would mean the loss of my 2014 vacation, Yes.

Would I book again with Celebrity if they showed poor forward planning and a lack of openness and effort in communicating with customers, No.

Would I book again with Celebrity when they had clearly done everything possible to keep me fully informed in a difficult and rare situation, Yes, in fact more so.

 

When the answer to enquiries by telephone and on this board is, we don't know, we have no information, it is frustrating at best and annoying at worst. It's also almost certainly not true corporately, even if it is for the poor individuals having to deal with the enquiries.

 

We can all see the risk and we all expect the company to have contingency plans to deal with it because you cannot simply reroute a large cruise ship overnight.

The failure to share that plan with their customers leads to a fear that probably the only reason not to tell us is that it truly is a very poor alternative like 6 consecutive sea days.

[cruisemom42]

 

This is a clear and substantial risk, known to Celebrity in advance of receiving payment for their service. It is not a single port day but three port days, it is a large section of the cruise and furthermore the fundamental basis of the cruise description.

It is therefore a fairly unique situation.

 

Celebrity probably have no obligation to advise on the alternative due to the lengthy disclaimer in their conditions but to do so and clarify what their customers might actually be paying for would remove the uncertainty which will otherwise inevitably lead to significant cancellations and bad feeling amongst customers,(both those who cancel and those who continue but then get a much amended itinerary post payment).

 

It seems to me that publishing the alternative port itinerary in this case would reduce cancellations and underscore good customer service at zero risk.

 

<snip>

 

We can all see the risk and we all expect the company to have contingency plans to deal with it because you cannot simply reroute a large cruise ship overnight.

The failure to share that plan with their customers leads to a fear that probably the only reason not to tell us is that it truly is a very poor alternative like 6 consecutive sea days.

 

It may seem like a fairly unique situation to you, but it's really not. I've been reading and participating on these boards, particularly on the Ports of Call boards involving the Mediterranean, Baltics, and Africa, since 2005.

 

Nearly every year of that time there has been some circumstance somewhere in the world that has caused almost this exact same circumstance. (Go browse a bit on the Africa ports of call board if you don't believe that nearly every year either Egypt or Israel has been an 'at risk' port for some cruises....) Often both of these involve at least two days worth of port calls, if not three.

 

I've also seen cruises where two calls in Tunisia were cancelled (on HAL) only at the last minute despite clear indications that the line would likely not be able to port there. And at times there has been unrest in Turkey which has led to angst and uncertainty about whether Istanbul would remain on the itinerary.

 

And of course this year we have the major example of Black Sea cruises wih ports of call (sometimes 2 or 3) in Ukraine.

 

With the exception of a couple of lines (certainly not ALL lines) involved in the last situation this year, I have NEVER known a single cruise line -- not Celebrity, not HAL, not Princess, not NCL, nor others -- to advise passengers of a possible alternative itinerary in advance of the actual cancellation.

 

Why would they not do it? I imagine they cannot secure a berth at an alternative port without the outlay of a substantial sum of money. I'm willing to bet they have an alternative plan IN MIND but it cannot be confirmed without that payment being made. (And once made, I don't believe it can be refunded if the ship doesn't end up there.)

 

So I imagine they have an 'idea' but if they communicate this -- and for some reason it doesn't come to pass -- they are again in a no-win situation with the passengers. The clear, unwritten rule seems to be that no such communication is made until it can be done with certainty.

 

It's not for nothing that one of the most common things you'll hear in this situation is that if one port or a couple of ports in one country are SO overwhelmingly important to you, you are better off taking a land tour. It's annoying to hear it, but it's true.

[CathyCruises]

Exactly correct. We booked a Med cruise one time specifically because of two African ports. On our way out the door to the airport, we received a call that both ports had been cancelled 'for safety reasons'. Nothing 'special' was going on at the time, no specific reason given, and two ports in Spain were substituted. Were we disappointed? Yup, but we still had a great time.

 

Having said that, I think if I booked a Holy Land cruise minus the Holy Land, I would consider changing to a different itinerary for this year and rebooking my Holy Land cruise for next year, but there are of course no guarantees that that wouldn't be cancelled too in that volatile part of the world.

 

FWIW, I have been on more cruises with altered itineraries/issues than ones without. Ship happens.

[cruise52]

Scifimonkey - I agree. We are also booked on a Holyland cruise. It is not a matter of asking for a guarantee, but simply what the "plan B" is if they are unable to stop. By providing the plan for the alternate ports of call we can all make a decision if the alternate plan is acceptable. As an example, we are on the Constellation 10/25 sailing. If they were to indicate the plan is an extra sea day and a visit to Athens, we would cancel. If they indicated the plan would be to stop in Santorini & Mykonos or one of these ports and a sea day, we would continue. We all know that any port can be cancelled, but it is not unreasonable for people to want to know the planned itinerary when it appears more than likely that a cancellation of the main ports of interest, which are 2 & 3 days, will be necessary.