This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[tim22361]

There is no "need" to have extravagant meals. Let's just have them serve hot dogs and chips every day.

 

There is no "need" to have shore excursions. Let's all just ride around and play Uno.

 

There is no "need" to have shows on the ship. Let's just turn one whole deck into a big honking library.

 

There is no "need" to have gay cruises. Especially gays who smoke!

 

There is no "need" to have a formal night. Let's just all dine in our bathrobes.

 

Thank you for missing the point by a (nautical) mile

[SS Exeter]

Many people who are now upset with HAL for allowing smoking on verandas say they have been sailing with HAL for many years, and are now unhappy. But they have been sailing with the current smoking policies for all those many years. If anything there are probably less smokers because many people have stopped smoking. If you kept choosing to sail with HAL when there was more smoking, why are you so upset now? You have sailed with it all along.:confused:

And, yes probably sometime in the not to far future HAL will go non-smoking, as will most public places - but not just yet.

[LMaxwell]

Many people who are now upset with HAL for allowing smoking on verandas say they have been sailing with HAL for many years, and are now unhappy. But they have been sailing with the current smoking policies for all those many years.

 

Did they say they were happy with the policy previously, or just that they tolerated it more quietly when smoking was accepted in more public places? There is a difference.

 

Also, I believe that HAL is becoming a smokers haven and thus the issue may be more noticeable now.

 

Just some ideas.

[Freckles83]

Catering to LGBT communities or other religious sects is one thing but to compare that to accommodating someone who chooses to engage in an activity that affects not only their health but the health of people around them in quite something else all together.

 

I choose to sail with HAL and enjoy our balcony cabin with the risk of being beside a smoker. It surely doesn't make or break my cruise but yes id much rather enjoy the fresh air without the stink of cigarette smoke.

 

Just because you are outside in the open it doesn't mean people still aren't breathing in the second hand smoke. As of January 1st 2015, smoking was banned on outdoor patios in restaurants and bars *edit in Ontario*. Have to say as someone who works in that industry I'm glad that I'm not subjected to being immersed in that environment for my job. Working on a smoking patio was still gross IMO even with it being an outdoor open air venue.

 

I have nothing against smokers, I believe in the right to do what you want.. but unfortunately you're putting something into the air that other people dont want to breathe in/be around.

 

I dont think theres any simple cut and dry answer to this but lets be honest here, no LGBT person or religeous person ever put my personal health at risk due to their lifestyle.

 

*additional edit - You can't really segregate smoke.. it goes into the air and gets dispersed to other non-smoking areas. I can't even believe they used to have smoking and non-smoking sections in restaurants where it was clearly just one side of the restaurant had smoking allowed and the other side didn't - as if the smoke would not cross the invisible boundary of the two sections.

 

Again - not against smokers but I do find this "smokers rights" thing a bit ridiculous.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Freckles83

[richwmn]

Of course, no one "needs" insider info. But also, insider info is less valuable when the source's info has turned out to be less than accurate.

 

Something else to consider - sometimes information is "leaked" in order for a corporation to judge the reaction to it while contemplating a change. Depending on the reaction, the subject of the information may go forward or be put off until the climate is more favorable.

[cruz chic]

That's the problem with insider info. It can easily change. I'm more interested in seeing the policy change rather than rumours of a change.

[Hlitner]

Many people who are now upset with HAL for allowing smoking on verandas say they have been sailing with HAL for many years, and are now unhappy. But they have been sailing with the current smoking policies for all those many years. If anything there are probably less smokers because many people have stopped smoking. If you kept choosing to sail with HAL when there was more smoking, why are you so upset now? You have sailed with it all along.:confused:

And, yes probably sometime in the not to far future HAL will go non-smoking, as will most public places - but not just yet.

 

Yes, we fall into that group. Up until the past few years all the cruise lines allowed smoking on balconies (and usually in passenger cabins) so those of us who detest the stink (and health issues) of smoke had no good choices except when Renaissance Cruises was in business. But now times have changed and HAL is about the only cruise line on earth that allows both cigarette and cigar smoking on passenger balconies. And now, we do have a choice....which is why this 4 Star Mariner no longer has any HAL cruises under booking. Would we ever book a HAL cruise again under the current smoking policy? Perhaps. But it would have to be for a fantastic itinerary and an amazing price!

 

Hank

[sail7seas]

Many people who are now upset with HAL for allowing smoking on verandas say they have been sailing with HAL for many years, and are now unhappy. But they have been sailing with the current smoking policies for all those many years. If anything there are probably less smokers because many people have stopped smoking. If you kept choosing to sail with HAL when there was more smoking, why are you so upset now? You have sailed with it all along.:confused:

And, yes probably sometime in the not to far future HAL will go non-smoking, as will most public places - but not just yet.

 

A huge difference a smoker may not realize is that many states/cities/communities have gone almost non-smoking in all public areas so non-smokers are never exposed to second hand smoke at home. In Massachusetts, there is no smoking permitted in any workplace. Just about anywhere you go is someone's workplace. Many beaches, parks, sidewalks within so many feet of entry door etc ban smoking.

 

Because of that, I am almost never exposed to smoke in my everyday life and it has been that way for about 10 years and gets more and more restrictive. In the past, exposure at home made many more able to tolerate the second hand smoke as first, there wasn't much we could not about it but also because of constant exposure we had more tolerance and less disgust at the stench.

 

Now the smoking on the verandahs bothers me to the point I must leave my verandah because I never am exposed at home which makes it all the more sickening to me when someone puffs away polluting the air on my verandah. I can't stand it.

 

Most smokers have no idea how much their smoke truly bothers others and try the deny approach but it is true. When you never smell that smoke and suddenly are forced to, it is not tolerable. Smokers have no idea how truly bad it smells. I have gotten off elevators when jammed in with people who smoke as their clothes/hair/breath reeks of it.

 

I don't smell second hand smoke at home more than maybe a whiff once in two or three weeks and for me, that is too often.

 

Edited September 20, 2015 by sail7seas

[Host Walt]

Please stay on topic. 'This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies'

Discussions of other aspects of smoking including health, taxes and governmental regulations are not on topic and, because they are not cruise discussions, are not appropriate subjects on Cruise Critic.

[Aquahound]

Many people who are now upset with HAL for allowing smoking on verandas say they have been sailing with HAL for many years, and are now unhappy. But they have been sailing with the current smoking policies for all those many years. If anything there are probably less smokers because many people have stopped smoking. If you kept choosing to sail with HAL when there was more smoking, why are you so upset now? You have sailed with it all along.:confused:

And, yes probably sometime in the not to far future HAL will go non-smoking, as will most public places - but not just yet.

 

There was a time when HAL and her closest competitors, Princess and Celebrity, all allowed balcony smoking. It was an annoyance, but an accepted practice. It's just the way it was. It was hard to be upset with HAL, specifically, when it was a standard industry practice.

 

Princess and Celebrity were the first to ban balcony smoking and to date, hold some of the most restrictive smoking policies at sea.....especially Celebrity who doesn't allow it anywhere inside their ships.

 

So why am I upset with HAL now? Because balcony smoking is no longer a standard practice and because it's been almost a decade since the competition banned it. And since, even the more mainstream lines like RCI, CCL and NCL have banned it. That's plenty of reason to be upset with a line that tries to brand itself as a more premium line.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Aquahound

[tim22361]

So why am I upset with HAL now? Because balcony smoking is no longer a standard practice and because it's been almost a decade since the competition banned it. And since, even the more mainstream lines like RCI, CCL and NCL have banned it. That's plenty of reason to be upset with a line that tries to brand itself as a more premium line.

 

--------------

 

I would consider HAL a "premium line" because it accommodates tobacco users, thus far not capitulating to the politically correct culture of the day, which has turned the masses into Pharisaical busybodies.

 

Bravo, HAL.

[cruiseing marly]

Not sure I agree with all of that I drink and gamble have not smoked for twenty plus year ! When I smoked I could not afford to gamble or travel very much . Smokers in Canada pay a lot of sin tax . As well as drinkers but I only drink on holidays . I'm not sure why Hal is still in the 90's with some of there policy's but they are !

[Host Walt]

Once again, this is a forum intended to discuss cruising and cruise related subjects. It is not a public health board or an advocacy forum for or against smoking so extended discussions on smoking are completely off topic.

 

This thread was initiated with this post:

We have established this thread to be the "go to" thread for all discussions pertaining to Holland America's on board smoking policies. This thread is intended to make it easier for all Cruise Critic members to discuss these policies and any future changes thereto.

 

Here's a link to HAL's policy summary Shipboard Life: Is smoking allowed on board? - Click on "Shipboard Life" and a drop down menu will appear. Click on "On Board Policies" in that menu and you'll see the last question is "Is smoking allowed on board?"

 

Here's the currently posted policy (as of August 9, 2014):

 

-----

Is Smoking Allowed On Board?

For the comfort of all of our guests, all staterooms (cabins), showrooms and most other indoor areas are designated non-smoking. While smoking is not permitted in staterooms, guests are allowed to smoke on stateroom verandahs. Smoking is also permitted on certain other designated, outside decks. The designated smoking areas for all ships are as follows unless otherwise noted.

 

 

• Stateroom verandahs
  
• Casino (Active players only)
  
• Seaview Bar
  
• Outside Decks
  
  • Sports Deck
    
  • Observation Deck (ms Prinsendam, ms Eurodam, ms Nieuw Amsterdam, ms Noordam, ms Oosterdam, ms Westerdam, and ms Zuiderdam only)
    

   

 

Cigar and pipe smoking is not allowed anywhere inside the ship; it is only permitted on the outside decks where smoking is otherwise allowed and on stateroom verandahs. Electronic cigarettes are permitted in staterooms but not in other public areas of the ship other than on outside decks designated as smoking areas.

 

 

Any guest who smokes inside staterooms in violation of our policy will be charged a US$250 cleaning fee per day of violation.

 

----

 

Reminders.

 

1. Our community guidelines continue to apply to this thread.

 

2. This is a forum for discussions of cruising and associated topics. It is not a forum for discussing the health, economics and public policy aspects of smoking, whether associated with cigarettes, pipes, cigars or controlled substances (marijuana).

 

3. Discussions of this approach to smoking posts and other board policies are off topic and will be removed. Please post discussions of this approach for smoking posts to this thread: Single Smoking Thread on the HAL Board - a Sticky

 

Thanks for your understanding and continued participation on the Cruise Critic forums.

 

A number of recent posts have drifted from HAL's smoking policy and have been removed because they are off topic (they aren't discussing HAL's policies or even cruising in general)

 

Thanks for your understanding and cooperation.

[3rdGenCunarder]

 

(this is NOT Tim's message)So why am I upset with HAL now? Because balcony smoking is no longer a standard practice and because it's been almost a decade since the competition banned it. And since, even the more mainstream lines like RCI, CCL and NCL have banned it. That's plenty of reason to be upset with a line that tries to brand itself as a more premium line.

 

--------------

 

(This IS Tim's message) I would consider HAL a "premium line" because it accommodates tobacco users, thus far not capitulating to the politically correct culture of the day, which has turned the masses into Pharisaical busybodies.

 

Bravo, HAL.

 

You consider a liberal smoking policy as part of being a "premium" line? You may put a premium on the ability to smoke on your balcony, but I don't think that's how the marketplace sees "premium." The lines that are branding themselves as premium do so on the basis of service, quality of food, size/quality of staterooms, etc. Not where they allow smoking.

 

Also, I see that you're new to Cruise Critic, but please learn to use the system to quote other posters. Don't copy and paste the post you want to reply to. Instead, click on the "quote" button, and you will get a composition box that includes the post you are quoting, formatted in the way that makes it easy for people to distinguish your post from the one you're quoting. As you're doing it now, when I used the system to quote your post, I also got the comments you picked up from someone else. This can be confusing, especially in a thread where there's a lot of back-and-forth going on.

 

Thank you.

[kennicott]

If Regal is like Royal Princess there is a smoking area at the back on deck 17. It has a small bar and waiters who can get drinks from the bar below. We had a great crack hanging out there (aft views; cocktails and cigars - what's not to like!)

 

Unlike the HAL ships, where considerable smoking takes place, this Princess ship has very little smoking taking place or areas in which do so. As you probably know by now, the Regal is not the Royal. As I previously mentioned there is an outdoor smoking area located within a fenced enclosure on the Terrace Deck, the only outside deck smoking on the Regal is this. This area is restricted and surrounded on three sides by non-smoking sun bathing areas, the fourth side is a steel bulkhead. As far as panoramic views from that area are concerned, there aren't any, due to the elevated swimming pool and sunbathing area directly aft. Perhaps that is the reason smokers rarely use it.

 

We are still on the Regal right now. I talked to a few smokers, they are very much displeased. One lady said she uses the casino a lot but hadn't been able to light up because it is so restricted. She also said the only place to really enjoy a smoke was in Churchill's.

 

We were on the Royal one year ago. At that time Princess was saying that during an up coming retro-fit a swimming pool was going to be added, similar to what is now the Regal's Terrace Pool. I was under the impression this had already occurred but haven't been on the Royal since. Is this the area you are referring to here?

 

You mention cigar smoking on the Terrace deck. On this ship cigar and pipe smoking is allowed only inside Churchill's. On HAL, cigar chain smokers are allowed on all balconies surrounding you.

[tim22361]

How many cruise lines are there? 20? 30? 100?

 

I have no idea.

 

How many of them allow smoking on balconies?

 

One.

 

Is it not possible for the cruising prohibitionists to simply use one of the dozens of other options available to them, and leave HAL alone? Is it not possible for them to throw a bone to those who wish to smoke on their balcony?

Edited September 21, 2015 by tim22361

[dmg1956]

Thanks for you're post and I say AMEN.

[Host Walt]

REMINDER

 

Please stay on topic. 'This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies'

Discussions of other aspects of smoking including health, taxes and governmental regulations are not on topic and, because they are not cruise discussions, are not appropriate subjects on Cruise Critic.

 

Also from our guidelines:

 

Discussion of our management policies and procedures -- including post deletions-- is considered off-topic discussion for our cruise boards and will be removed without notice. All decisions regarding any action taken by management shall remain final.

 

And this:

 

Harassment of our members is not allowed. Cruise Critic will remove posts of this nature without notice. Repeat offenders may have their posting privileges suspended, in the sole discretion of Cruise Critic.

[3rdGenCunarder]

How many cruise lines are there? 20? 30? 100?

 

I have no idea.

 

How many of them allow smoking on balconies?

 

One.

 

Is it not possible for the cruising prohibitionists to simply use one of the dozens of other options available to them, and leave HAL alone? Is it not possible for them to throw a bone to those who wish to smoke on their balcony?

 

There aren't any other options out there like HAL. Most of the other mainstream lines have HUGE ships. I don't want to sail with 6000 other passengers. I don't want to sail on a ship with an amusement park on the top deck. I don't want to sail on a ship where the music at the pool is so loud I fear for my hearing. I've tried other lines, and one by one, I've crossed them off my list for various reasons.

 

There's a lot about HAL that I like. Balcony smoking is one of my few dislikes. I do book balconies. I know it's a roll of the dice, and if I get a chainsmoking neighbor, there's nothing I can do. But I would like HAL to take the uncertainty out of the air quality on my balcony by banning balcony smoking.

[kennicott]

How many cruise lines are there? 20? 30? 100?

 

I have no idea.

 

How many of them allow smoking on balconies?

 

One.

 

Is it not possible for the cruising prohibitionists to simply use one of the dozens of other options available to them, and leave HAL alone? Is it not possible for them to throw a bone to those who wish to smoke on their balcony?

 

In answer to your question, by my count there are about 11 to 13 major cruise lines, only one allows balcony smoking and that is HAL. However, there are many more cruise lines, a few of which still allow balcony smoking, Seabourn, Fred Olsen Cruise lines, Saga and others.

 

Now, we have cruised with only three lines, HAL is one. We have almost 300 days sailing with HAL and have enjoyed some HAL perks that we earned over the years, which is one of the main reasons we stuck with them until now.

 

Perhaps it wasn't their fault the entire industry, that industry composed of major cruise lines, went no smoking on balconies, but it was HAL's decision to not go along and to reap the reward of being the only game in town by offering smokers the chance to still enjoy a smoking cruise experience. In reality, HAL sacrificed their non-smoker loyal guests in order to corner the market on smokers unhappy with their previous lines due new smoking restrictions and looking for a line that would put up with their smoking habit.

 

So, I say to smokers, why do I have to give up all my years credit so you can enjoy chain smoking cigars every day during a two month cruise on the balcony adjacent to me? Why don't you try out one of the other lines instead, or better yet, promote an all new cruise line from scratch, dedicated to smokers?

[cruisemom42]

 

So, I say to smokers, why do I have to give up all my years credit so you can enjoy chain smoking cigars every day during a two month cruise on the balcony adjacent to me? Why don't you try out one of the other lines instead, or better yet, promote an all new cruise line from scratch, dedicated to smokers?

 

The problem with this is that you are addressing the wrong party. It's not smokers who made the decision for HAL to continue to allow smoking on the balcony, it's HAL.

[cruiseing marly]

The problem with this is that you are addressing the wrong party. It's not smokers who made the decision for HAL to continue to allow smoking on the balcony, it's HAL.

 

 

Yes that is who needs to change the policy ! Maybe on day.

[SteveH2508]

<snip>

Why don't you try out one of the other lines instead, or better yet, promote an all new cruise line from scratch, dedicated to smokers?

 

If any line were to try this, you can bet that the anti-smokers will be complaining loudly, "Why can't we try this new line?":rolleyes:

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

If any line were to try this, you can bet that the anti-smokers will be complaining loudly, "Why can't we try this new line?":rolleyes:

 

My gut feeling is that HAL will change their smoking policies prior to the Koningsdam going into service. At least that's my hope. I'd feel more encouraged if a HAL spokesperson would chime in with a word from the company from time to time on this thread (as I've seen happen on the Celebrity and NCL boards) - as this would at least show that they're aware of the level of interest.

 

Regarding a ship exclusively for smokers -- I, for one, would have no interest in sailing a ship which had been essentially the "Ashtray of the Seas". Can you imagine the stench? It would be like staying in a run down Days Inn a couple of decades ago!

 

Tom

[3rdGenCunarder]

My gut feeling is that HAL will change their smoking policies prior to the Koningsdam going into service. At least that's my hope. I'd feel more encouraged if a HAL spokesperson would chime in with a word from the company from time to time on this thread (as I've seen happen on the Celebrity and NCL boards) - as this would at least show that they're aware of the level of interest.

 

Regarding a ship exclusively for smokers -- I, for one, would have no interest in sailing a ship which had been essentially the "Ashtray of the Seas". Can you imagine the stench? It would be like staying in a run down Days Inn a couple of decades ago!

 

Tom

 

I would have thought a brand new ship would be a good point in time to make a change. New ship, new policy. But I don't expect any HAL spokesperson to make a comment here. Just have to wait and see.