This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[dogo88]

HAL will not change it's smoking policy until it hurts them in their financial pocketbook. Not enough non smokers have cancelled cruises or just not booked to make an impact. All the letters and emails are nice but just doesn't change the fact that HAL has picked up a nice group of smokers from other lines.

 

As far as defending your position of smoking vs non smoking expecting to change the others mind, it ain't happening.

 

For us, we've been pretty lucky in that the smoking on our prior cruises hasn't been that invasive. The Promenade now has no smoking signs up and they seem to be grudgingly followed. We have had a balcony neighbor that has been offensive with the smoking, but we tend to book forward cabins which limit the number of potential smoking cabins.

 

Dan

[cruz chic]

Not every non-smoker is vehemently opposed to HAL's current policy. Some may have relatives or friends they travel with who are smokers. Some may just not be bothered by it significantly.

 

We do not have access to the comments HAL receives on its surveys, so in the end we really don't know what the "majority" of HAL passengers think.

 

Yes, the thoughts could be different then every other business. I think that's wishful thinking. Why has Hal done anything to decrease smoking on their ships? On the eurodam and Noordam they have eliminated smoking in the casino. If it's the wish of most pax to live in a smokepit why change anything?

[RuthC]

Not every non-smoker is vehemently opposed to HAL's current policy. Some may have relatives or friends they travel with who are smokers. Some may just not be bothered by it significantly.

 

We do not have access to the comments HAL receives on its surveys, so in the end we really don't know what the "majority" of HAL passengers think.

You are right on target with this post.

 

I read this thread, and it so much tries to divide passengers into the two sides of smokers and against smoking (at the very least on balconies). But there is a large contingent of passengers who just don't care if there is smoking on balconies, smoking areas both inside and outdoors on the ship, passing by smoking areas, and many other nuances of the topic.

 

There are three sides to the story, and no one truly knows how large that "doesn't matter to me" group is.

[richwmn]

You are right on target with this post.

 

I read this thread, and it so much tries to divide passengers into the two sides of smokers and against smoking (at the very least on balconies). But there is a large contingent of passengers who just don't care if there is smoking on balconies, smoking areas both inside and outdoors on the ship, passing by smoking areas, and many other nuances of the topic.

 

There are three sides to the story, and no one truly knows how large that "doesn't matter to me" group is.

 

Unfortunately every time someone brings up the "I Don't Care" group, a number of regular posters to this thread tell us in no uncertain terms that such a group does not exist.

[Lizzie68]

Not every non-smoker is vehemently opposed to HAL's current policy. Some may have relatives or friends they travel with who are smokers. Some may just not be bothered by it significantly.

 

We do not have access to the comments HAL receives on its surveys, so in the end we really don't know what the "majority" of HAL passengers think.

 

 

I will agree that there are some non-smokers who do not care. I have a very good friend who is not bothered by it. However, you cannot argue with the fact that the majority of the population is non-smoking, and likely most would prefer not to risk their health around it, many having taken steps to quit and improve their health and life expectation. Still others have had to suffer through the agony of watching a loved one die from the effects of smoking, whether it be lung cancer, COPD or emphysema (sp?). So that is why there is such a strong reaction to HAL's onboard smoking policy.

[cruz chic]

What I think Hal should do is eliminate smoking on balconies and make part of the lower promenade the smoking area. I'd be interested to see if that would change the minds of those that are not bothered by smoke. I won't be bothered by smoke on my next cruise because I am taking an oceanview as I'm sick of being smoked out.

[Aquahound]

What I think Hal should do is eliminate smoking on balconies and make part of the lower promenade the smoking area.

 

Make that 2 of us. That's what Celebrity did and it's been working for several years now.

[Lizzie68]

Ankle biters at their finest, same people over and over with their different views and not staying on topic. I don't know how this thread continues. Maybe Walt should close this thread and just have a sticky showing what the current policies are. I come here for info and not to debate. I smoke on my balcony, it is allowed and until it is not allowed I will continue. I would be angry if someone next to me or around me asked me to stop, when policy states otherwise. Hal makes the rules, that should be the end of it.

 

Walt set up this thread to debate the policy. You can go to Hal's website for information on their policy.

 

When the thread deteriorates, as it has done today, it is because certain posters have set out to deliberately do that.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Lizzie68

[kennicott]

What I think Hal should do is eliminate smoking on balconies and make part of the lower promenade the smoking area. I'd be interested to see if that would change the minds of those that are not bothered by smoke. I won't be bothered by smoke on my next cruise because I am taking an oceanview as I'm sick of being smoked out.

 

Highly unlikely HAL will do that. Most of the majors, all of which have banned balcony smoking except for HAL, have exclusive cigar/cigarette smoking lounges. Celebrity is one who doesn't. However, for HAL to ban balcony smoking now without adding exclusive smoking lounges, after so many smokers previously faithful to lines that have banned balcony smoking have now gravitated over to HAL, would create a publicity ruckus that HAL no doubt does not want to endure.

 

See my pertinent comments in #3128

[sugcarol]

Walt's message on page one. He states it is not a debate but simply discussion which has unfortunately morphed into this. Am I misunderstanding his post?

 

Reminders.

 

1. Our community guidelines continue to apply to this thread.

 

2. This is a forum for discussions of cruising and associated topics. It is not a forum for discussing the health, economics and public policy aspects of smoking, whether associated with cigarettes, pipes, cigars or controlled substances (marijuana).

 

3. Discussions of this approach to smoking posts and other board policies are off topic and will be removed. Please post discussions of this approach for smoking posts to this thread: Single Smoking Thread on the HAL Board - a Sticky

 

Thanks for your understanding and continued participation on the Cruise Critic forums.

__________________

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(Walt Tuthill)

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[lahlah57]

The smoking on balconies is not about a health issue, its about a very unpleasant smell that prevents other folks from enjoying them.

 

Smokers always deflect with inane assumptions that other things are more hazardous to one's health. From obesity, to salt, to smog, to perfume, etc.

That is not the point.

 

One could bring a better analogy in place. What if there was a very strong sewer smell right in your face when you go out on your balcony. I am sure anyone including smokers would complain about smelling sh*t when they step out on the verandah.

 

I know that this matter will never be resolved until HAL changes its policies, but so many smokers are really on the short end of common sense on this debate.

 

Yes....cigarette smoke is pretty foul!

Edited February 6, 2016 by lahlah57
Wrong meaning

[kjw869]

HAL will not change it's smoking policy until it hurts them in their financial pocketbook. Not enough non smokers have cancelled cruises or just not booked to make an impact. All the letters and emails are nice but just doesn't change the fact that HAL has picked up a nice group of smokers from other lines.

 

Dan

 

That's probably true. A year ago, someone who had booked our 11-day cruise on the Zuiderdam next week stated if HAL didn't change their smoking policy, they would cancel. They did.

 

The cruise is sold out. Yesterday, I tried to book any type of cabin for friends who decided they wanted to sail with us on our upcoming cruise. I was told they could put them on a wait list.

[Cruise Junky]

That's probably true. A year ago, someone who had booked our 11-day cruise on the Zuiderdam next week stated if HAL didn't change their smoking policy, they would cancel. They did.

 

The cruise is sold out. Yesterday, I tried to book any type of cabin for friends who decided they wanted to sail with us on our upcoming cruise. I was told they could put them on a wait list.

 

Selling out is easy. But at what price? How many insides were offered a $99 upgrade to balcony? Bruce who posts here and worked for CCL and I think HAL specifically has claimed numerous times that HAL is the least profitable line that Carnival owns.

[kjw869]

Selling out is easy. But at what price? How many insides were offered a $99 upgrade to balcony? Bruce who posts here and worked for CCL and I think HAL specifically has claimed numerous times that HAL is the least profitable line that Carnival owns.

 

And Bruce also pointed out that new cruisers produce more revenue than long time HAL cruisers. To refresh your memory, see post below. We were told the same by a retired Hotel Director who was recently mentioned on this board while having cocktails with him in the Crow's Nest. So, maybe this is the way to generate more revenue. ;)

 

See: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=41757673#post41757673

 

Many on our Roll Call our first time HAL cruisers.

 

The only cabin type left last week was an inside cabin for $1,299 PP. Two days later, they were not available. I highly doubt they went for $99 as there was a choice of two cabins.

[sugcarol]

So tired of the same people posting the same things. I am done with this, I have better use for my time. I certainly won't be missed. Smokers, you have the right to smoke if HAL allows, stand up for your rights and if someone asks you to stop because you are interfering with their balcony use tell them to go to guest services and complain to them, I assure you HAL doesn't give a damn about it.

[richwmn]

This thread is very long, so I very well could have missed it. Who said that? :confused:

 

Several posters constantly try to say that the issue is black and white. They have mentioned on several occasions that since only 20% of the population smokes then 80% is opposed to all smoking. This is not true. Many people, while not smokers, are not bothered by smoking.

 

As you said, this is a very long thread but it has been mentioned several times and each time the same small group of posters dismiss any attempt to talk about that group.

[sail7seas]

I am a non-smoker who strongly hopes HAL will change their verandah smoking policy but I fully acknowledge there are some unknown number of non-smokers who don't care either way. The smoke bothers me but I know it does not bother all non-smokers in the same way or as strongly as some others.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

...

 

No one ever has to open and read this thread if they do not wish but I hope it is not taken away from all of us because some don't want to read it.

 

 

... or because some people don't want others to be informed!

 

Tom

Edited February 6, 2016 by Tom-n-Cheryl

[sail7seas]

... or because some people don't want others to see it (be informed)!

 

Tom

 

Good point.

Ignorance of the facts is not bliss.

 

[Cruise Junky]

And Bruce also pointed out that new cruisers produce more revenue than long time HAL cruisers. To refresh your memory, see post below. We were told the same by a retired Hotel Director who was recently mentioned on this board while having cocktails with him in the Crow's Nest. So, maybe this is the way to generate more revenue. ;)

 

See: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=41757673#post41757673

 

Many on our Roll Call our first time HAL cruisers.

 

The only cabin type left last week was an inside cabin for $1,299 PP. Two days later, they were not available. I highly doubt they went for $99 as there was a choice of two cabins.

 

And I would have been one of those cruisers that spend money. We average about $100 a day and don't cost them a bean as we have no perks. I'm also in my 40s and have lots of cruising years left. Smoking will not draw new cruisers.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Cruise Junky

[CRUZBUDS]

Several posters constantly try to say that the issue is black and white. They have mentioned on several occasions that since only 20% of the population smokes then 80% is opposed to all smoking. This is not true. Many people, while not smokers, are not bothered by smoking.

.

 

Please keep in mind -- cruisers are no where near 20% smokers based on demographics. The older, more affluent and educated a person is the less likely they are smokers. When Carnival banned smoking on balconies they stated a bit more than 10% of their passengers are smokers. HAL was likely under that, before they elected to become the only game in town for smokers.

[PirateShark]

... or because some people don't want others to be informed!

 

Tom

 

And that is the bottom line. Censor / curtail dissent for their particular opinion. I frankly only come back and "lurk" on this thread in the hopes that HAL will come into the 21st century. Until then, I am content on other lines. HAL has a right to run their business as they see fit. HAL has made a decision to allow balcony smoking. Thus smokers are entitled to smoke on their balconies. There is no controversy in what is being done. However, the strident smoking section here on Cruise Critic may feel they are under siege. I can understand that. But to recommend silencing dissenting voices is a bridge too far and IMO, it is the smokers that are bullying at this point.

 

There are posters here who like to stir it up, get people banned, threads closed and posts erased. Flame away, red triangle, I really don't give a rats you know what. You know who you are and you will respond I'm sure.

 

Enjoy :p

[Lizzie68]

Please keep in mind -- cruisers are no where near 20% smokers based on demographics. The older, more affluent and educated a person is the less likely they are smokers. When Carnival banned smoking on balconies they stated a bit more than 10% of their passengers are smokers. HAL was likely under that, before they elected to become the only game in town for smokers.

 

I think you could be right about the percentages. I have to say there have been few smokers on my cruises, however, if you are unfortunate to have a balcony near one or two of them, it can totally ruin your own cruise. Some have said they simply cannot use their balcony. And the coughing and chest clearing is not pleasant to listen to when you are trying to have breakfast - that was my experience.:mad:

 

Rich, I haven't seen anyone say that 80% of cruise passengers MUST be non-smoking, but I may have missed a post or two. But it is not a prevailing comment through this thread - though it is noted that only approximately 20% of the N. American population smokes. Some say less.

 

What has prevailed through this thread is smokers advocating for comfortable and ventilated areas in the ship where smokers can sit and enjoy their cigarettes, and perhaps take their drink to. Only the "trolls" have come in from time to time to totally derail the thread with claims that non-smokers are haters of all smokers.:rolleyes: Amongst other things, LOL.

[kennicott]

Why?

Why would you want this thread shut down?

 

If there are those who come here to create trouble, Host Walt has always been most able to deal with it.

 

If people/posters did not want to continue this conversation in a mostly civil style, no one would be posting to it. When a person posts ugly messages, they are easily expunged if Host Walt deems it appropriate.

 

I would be sorry for this thread to be closed. It gives us a feeling for the amount of resistance to a change in HAL's smoking policy and an indication of how many cruisers who smoke may be coming to HAL ships because of that policy. And the same in reverse....... how many HAL cruisers are leaving?

 

No one ever has to open and read this thread if they do not wish but I hope it is not taken away from all of us because some don't want to read it.

 

 

Well stated, I agree completely. This thread has been useful in determining the extent of ramifications resulting from the final few of the major global cruise lines, except HAL, joining the majority by discontinuing their balcony smoking a couple of years ago.

 

----Originally there was a lot of uncertainty as to whether or not, or if so when, HAL would follow suit.----Then there was the question as to whether or not smokers from other lines would in significant numbers switch over to HAL. Back then some commented on doubts as to there being any flood of new guests to HAL just because of the smoking issue, since there was little evidence of smokers changing allegiances.-----Conversely, how many faithful were going to abandon booking with HAL due to their "only game in town" lenient balcony smoking policy.

 

It appears to me the first two questions have for the most part been proven out by the myriad of posts herein. 1. It looks like HAL is in no hurry to alter smoking procedures on its ships. 2. Now there is considerable evidence that a significant number of smokers have switched to HAL. Before this all began demographics suggested that approximately 8% of HAL's guests were smokers. It has got to be considerably more than that today. 3. I'm not convinced that there has been a commensurate drift away from booking HAL because of this smoking issue. I note that many book inside rooms instead of balconys because of smoke but most seem to be sticking with HAL regardless. I know that yours truly and spouse canceled two HAL cruises, over 80 days, the second cancellation due 100% smoking concerns and we have discontinued receiving brochures and notices of HAL future cruises.

 

We probably won't ever cruise again with HAL, even should they eventually make some adjustments. So, why do I continue to frequent this thread? Well, HAL, Princess, P&O Australia and all Carnival Corp's Alaska ground holdings are now under Carnival's Holland America Group, the CEO of which is Stein Kruse who reports only to the CEO of Carnival Corp. I have to keep a wary eye on Kruse, since Princess has now became our Cruise Line of choice we would hate to see it go the HAL route.

Edited February 6, 2016 by kennicott

[Host Walt]

Walt's message on page one. He states it is not a debate but simply discussion which has unfortunately morphed into this. Am I misunderstanding his post?

 

Reminders.

 

1. Our community guidelines continue to apply to this thread.

 

2. This is a forum for discussions of cruising and associated topics. It is not a forum for discussing the health, economics and public policy aspects of smoking, whether associated with cigarettes, pipes, cigars or controlled substances (marijuana).

 

3. Discussions of this approach to smoking posts and other board policies are off topic and will be removed. Please post discussions of this approach for smoking posts to this thread: Single Smoking Thread on the HAL Board - a Sticky

 

Thanks for your understanding and continued participation on the Cruise Critic forums.

__________________

Host Walt

(Walt Tuthill)

Cruise Critic Message Board Host

 

To contact me, hostwalt@cruisecritic.com

 

Thanks Carol, for posting this reminder.

 

To everyone, yes, many of the posts made today have been removed because they contravened our guidelines or quoted posts that have been removed.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Host Walt