This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[nb125]

It's interesting that personal responsibility falls on those who are being inconvenienced rather than those doing the unsocial acts. Sounds like you support a form of anarchy.

So if I blast music that encroached onto your private space it is your responsibility to leave rather than mine to have a sense of decency.

 

Anyway, we will have to agree to disagree on how those in a society should act to create harmony.

 

On the specific cases of cruising, I stand by my belief that I believe policy should be changed so that I can enjoy my private living space unencumbered by smoke. I should not have to find an alternative.

On the issue of booking Hal, I strongly believe that they should highlight to those of us who have not sailed her before that they have a non standard smoking policy when it comes to cabin balconies.

As mentioned, I am all in favour of quality smoking areas being provided to those who smoke.

I am just hoping it will not be an issue on our cruise and if it is then we will know to look elsewhere in the future and to read the fine print.

Happy cruising to you and everyone else

 

 

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I think it would be unreasonable to expect them to point out every single thing that may differ from other cruise lines you have sailed with. Surely it is up to you to check out what is important to you. I believe that is what most people do. It is easy enough to read the FAQ's.

[richstowe]

I think it would be unreasonable to expect them to point out every single thing that may differ from other cruise lines you have sailed with. Surely it is up to you to check out what is important to you. I believe that is what most people do. It is easy enough to read the FAQ's.

Generally I would agree with you but this is not " every single thing " . Now it is true they do state that smoking is allowed on balconies and no I don't think they need to have a flashing RED script warning you of this fact .

So in the end , I'm kinda on the fence . The vast majority of prospective customers are not cruise junkies . They are not CC lunatics (like us) :o . An analogy could be if all new cars came with air bags but one . And you ordered the one . Yes buyer beware and yet ...

[Neferteria]

Inconvenience can go both ways! Just as the non-smoker who objects to the smell of burning tobacco wafting over to his balcony from the smoking neighbor next door, the smoker may object to being evicted from his designated smoking place on his own balcony. This can be particularly inconvenient for that first cup of morning coffee or tea a smoker has before getting up and dressed. Or late at night when he is dressed for bed but cannot sleep and wants to have a smoke.

 

The reality is that all passengers have paid good money for their cruise and expect to be able to enjoy it, smokers and non-smokers who object to the smell of smoke alike. And as has been posted repeatedly, due diligence done beforehand by all to determine what policy about smoking is and acceptance of same is a must IMO. Some of the name-calling I have seen here is offensive at the very least.

[alwaysfrantic]

Here is a question for smokers....would you be satisfied if you could vape in place of smoking, with more areas in which it was permitted? As a non smoker and one who hates smoke, I have zero objection to people with electronic cigarettes. But would a smoker be satisfied with an e cig instead....I really don't know.

 

But ecigs in rooms, on decks, balconies.....it wouldn't bother me at all

[nb125]

Here is a question for smokers....would you be satisfied if you could vape in place of smoking, with more areas in which it was permitted? As a non smoker and one who hates smoke, I have zero objection to people with electronic cigarettes. But would a smoker be satisfied with an e cig instead....I really don't know.

 

But ecigs in rooms, on decks, balconies.....it wouldn't bother me at all

 

Unfortunately a lot of people become just as hysterical at the sight of an e-cig as they do with the real thing which is why they are banned on planes and most other places.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

Unfortunately a lot of people become just as hysterical at the sight of an e-cig as they do with the real thing which is why they are banned on planes and most other places.

 

My response is more of a :rolleyes:

 

;)

 

Tom

[NIX70]

Here is a question for smokers....would you be satisfied if you could vape in place of smoking, with more areas in which it was permitted? As a non smoker and one who hates smoke, I have zero objection to people with electronic cigarettes. But would a smoker be satisfied with an e cig instead....I really don't know.

 

But ecigs in rooms, on decks, balconies.....it wouldn't bother me at all

 

 

How do I explain it to a non-smoker? It's like being given a mocktail when only the real thing will do. OK in an absolute emergency (or when someone is trying to give up), but otherwise not a patch on the real thing:rolleyes:.

[Cruise Junky]

Unfortunately a lot of people become just as hysterical at the sight of an e-cig as they do with the real thing which is why they are banned on planes and most other places.

 

Right, it has nothing to do with random explosions that they're known for, it's because they freak people out :rolleyes:

[nb125]

Right, it has nothing to do with random explosions that they're known for, it's because they freak people out :rolleyes:

 

That's right.

[Sheltieluv]

We cruised with HAL in Alaska and enjoyed the cruise except for the chain smokers on the balcony next to us. We said "never again" and that is exactly what has happened, as we have been looking for a cruise that visits Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao. Holland America and Princess both offer the itinerary we like. Our first choice would have been HAL because of the smaller ship/fewer passengers, but will try Princess for the first time because they have the itinerary we want, although the ship is much larger.

 

So, we will take our business, and money, elsewhere until HAL bans balcony smoking. Yes, it's about "choice." But in this case we feel our choice was dictated by smokers, and our "choice" was definitely diminished.

 

I absolutely agree that smokers should have quality designated smoking areas. I just wish balconies weren't part of the equation.

[kevingastreich]

:)

For those who absolutely want a balcony experience on HAL without the smoke , they can get a Lanai cabin .

We were upsold this cabin type and loved it . Our "balcony" was 30 000 sq feet . :D

 

Hey! That's a pretty good idea!

[summersigh]

It's interesting that personal responsibility falls on those who are being inconvenienced rather than those doing the unsocial acts.

 

Perhaps "unsociable" ... but not illegal which would not then constitute anarchy.

[nb125]

We cruised with HAL in Alaska and enjoyed the cruise except for the chain smokers on the balcony next to us. We said "never again" and that is exactly what has happened, as we have been looking for a cruise that visits Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao. Holland America and Princess both offer the itinerary we like. Our first choice would have been HAL because of the smaller ship/fewer passengers, but will try Princess for the first time because they have the itinerary we want, although the ship is much larger.

 

So, we will take our business, and money, elsewhere until HAL bans balcony smoking. Yes, it's about "choice." But in this case we feel our choice was dictated by smokers, and our "choice" was definitely diminished.

 

I absolutely agree that smokers should have quality designated smoking areas. I just wish balconies weren't part of the equation.

 

You're complaining about your choice being diminished, really?

[RuthC]

You're complaining about your choice being diminished, really?

I noticed that, too.

Seems it's not all right to decrease the non-smokers' choices even a little bit, but it's perfectly fine to diminish smokers' choices even more than they have been.

 

Smokers have been forced to give up a lot of territory over the years, but no new, comfortable, off the beaten path smoking areas have been created for them.

Where is the outcry, and support, from the anti-smokers about that? Where were they when the Oak Rooms were taken away? Not a peep.

[Sheltieluv]

I did say in my post that smokers should have quality designated smoking areas. It's up to the cruiselines to provide them for those who smoke. If they do take away smoking area(s), then something else should be provided. Keep everyone happy? :)

[RuthC]

I did say in my post that smokers should have quality designated smoking areas. It's up to the cruiselines to provide them for those who smoke.

If you're not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem. If you are going to advocate that smoking on balconies be banned, then it is imperative that you campaign just as strenuously for alternative smoking areas.

 

It does not have to be an adversarial conflict between smoking and non-smoking passengers. Passengers can (and should) be a unified team approaching HAL to do what is best for all.

[Sheltieluv]

Ruth, I respect your opinion. However, a close friend will die soon from end-stage esophageal cancer, due to his years of smoking. So forgive me if I don't campaign for more alternative smoking venues any time soon. Therefore, I guess I'll remain part of the problem, as you say.

[Adoptionmsw]

Ruth, I respect your opinion. However, a close friend will die soon from end-stage esophageal cancer, due to his years of smoking. So forgive me if I don't campaign for more alternative smoking venues any time soon. Therefore, I guess I'll remain part of the problem, as you say.

 

 

 

I would reframe this entire discussion. Every time another limitation on smoking is imposed, that is a good thing for smokers. It puts more and more pressure on them to quit which can only improve their health and well being.

 

 

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[richstowe]

I noticed that, too.

Seems it's not all right to decrease the non-smokers' choices even a little bit, but it's perfectly fine to diminish smokers' choices even more than they have been.

 

Smokers have been forced to give up a lot of territory over the years, but no new, comfortable, off the beaten path smoking areas have been created for them.

Where is the outcry, and support, from the anti-smokers about that? Where were they when the Oak Rooms were taken away? Not a peep.

I remember when I joined CC, not so long ago , suggesting that one side of the ship's balconies should be non smoking and perhaps there could be non smoking nights in the piano bar and casino . The responses were nasty and aggressive . Many were along the lines of , if you don't like it don't cruise variety .

 

Boy has the pendulum swung . That's just fine with me . No I'm not feeling much sympathy for those who kept me from enjoying the cruise experience as much as I could have .

 

Edited to add that you have an interesting point Sheltieluv .

Plus they are being pushed to save lots of money . Thank us later . :D

Edited June 6, 2016 by richstowe

[sammiedawg]

If you're not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem. If you are going to advocate that smoking on balconies be banned, then it is imperative that you campaign just as strenuously for alternative smoking areas.

 

It does not have to be an adversarial conflict between smoking and non-smoking passengers. Passengers can (and should) be a unified team approaching HAL to do what is best for all.

 

I'm sorry but a small percentage of cruisers posting on an Internet message board are not responsible to implement solutions. If change ever happens executives at Holland America must come up with alternatives. Smoking verses non smoking will always involve adversarial positions, oil and water don't mix.

In the US smokers lost the battle decades ago after an unprecedented public health campaign. HAL is a tiny last vestige of the good old days for smokers.

 

Those of us who don't care for the smoking policy are voting with our feet and vice versa.

 

I no longer expect big changes in the smoking policy. I firmly believe HAL is wearing the scarlet letter S as designated by Carnival corporation.

[Hlitner]

Perhaps it might be helpful to consider some statistics as they apply to cruisers. HAL tends to attract a lot of Seniors (including moi) and as of 2014 (CDC Statistics) 8.5% of those over 65 smoke. Among those with college degrees (regardless of age) only 7.9% smoke. Bottom line is this entire smoking discussion is about fewer then 10% of HAL cruisers! By the way, one very interesting statistic is that among all the population about 18% between ages 45-64 smoke...but this is cut in half at age 65 and over (we wonder why). On our most recent HAL cruise (Prinsendam) there seemed to be very few smokers....but quite a few passengers using supplemental oxygen. The CDC says at least 90% of deaths due to COPD (a majority of those who use supplemental Oxygen) are related to smoking. Just fruit for thought.

 

 

Hank

Edited June 6, 2016 by Hlitner

[aussiewalker]

I would reframe this entire discussion. Every time another limitation on smoking is imposed, that is a good thing for smokers. It puts more and more pressure on them to quit which can only improve their health and well being.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

I think they should limit the number of elevators. It puts more pressure on the obese to exercise which can only improve their health and well being. After all it is up to HAL to be guardians of our health.

[RuthC]

I would reframe this entire discussion. Every time another limitation on smoking is imposed, that is a good thing for smokers. It puts more and more pressure on them to quit which can only improve their health and well being.

So long as smoking is legal, and allowed on HAL ships, there is no place for paternalistic attitudes being imposed.

[mightycruisequeen]

I noticed that, too.

Seems it's not all right to decrease the non-smokers' choices even a little bit, but it's perfectly fine to diminish smokers' choices even more than they have been.

 

Smokers have been forced to give up a lot of territory over the years, but no new, comfortable, off the beaten path smoking areas have been created for them.

Where is the outcry, and support, from the anti-smokers about that? Where were they when the Oak Rooms were taken away? Not a peep.

Really? We're finally seeing more areas onboard where we know we won't have smoke blown in our faces. Please don't insinuate that we're all supposed to become champions for the smokers' plight. :rolleyes:

[jadona48]

I has been suggested that HA should highlight the fact that smoking is allowed in certain areas of the ship, including the veranda. With my tongue firmly in my cheek, I would like to submit for HA's consideration a redesign of their cover page.

 

Please be advised of the following before booking your cruise with us:

 

- There are areas of the ship where passengers are allowed to smoke, including their own balcony;

 

- Some passengers may have too much perfume on.

 

- The entryway to your cabin is raised.

 

- The ship may suddenly rock.

 

- The music may be loud.

 

- You might have to wait in a line.

 

- The weather might be bad.

 

- We may have to miss a port occasionally. Please see above.

 

- You will be in a confined area.

 

- Passengers may be rude. Please see above.

 

- Your fare may be higher than someone else's

 

- If you accept all of the above and are able to relax and remind yourself how lucky you are to be able to cruise, please proceed to booking and prepare to have a vacation of a lifetime.

 

(All of the above complaints have been registered in this forum at one time or another)